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Old 06-06-2019, 02:25 PM
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Why does the UK hate Trump so much?


I get that Trump is an easy person to hate.

But with the Baby Trump balloons and the tens of thousands showing up at protests, it leaves me with the impression their distaste for Trump is more of a personal nature.


Oh and by the way, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to my friends across the pond. You guys know how to snark WAY better than us Yanks.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:40 PM
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I assume hating the US president (in a mundane, almost joyful way) is kind of the default for the UK public -- Obama was an abberation due to his political skills and charisma. Trump's personally disgusting nature and extreme hateability just takes it up to 11.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:42 PM
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Because they're smarter than we are?
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:43 PM
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With the notable exception of Obama, most Brits seem to dislike/hate American politicians in general. They don't even like Canada's leader. This survey found 21% approved of Trump.

"U.K. support of almost every other foreign politician outside of Obama was notably low. In second place among public popularity is Hillary Clinton, who only enjoyed favorable opinions among 29 percent of U.K. residents in the YouGov surveys. Just behind her in third place was Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who also only had a 29 percent favorable rating.

Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders ranked below Trump in the U.K. in terms of positive opinions, with only 19 percent expressing a favorable rating."


No idea what's got their kippers in a twist about U.S. political figures.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:48 PM
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They're still mad about the tea.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:53 PM
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Confidence in Trump is higher in the UK than some other European countries. Here's some data from 2018 on the question of "confidence in the U.S. president to do the right thing regarding world affairs".

UK: 28%
Germany: 10%
France: 9%
Spain: 7%

A graph in the link shows the stark difference between European views of Obama, who they had overwhelmingly confidence in, and G.W. Bush and Trump, who they most certainly did/do not.

Poor confidence in Trump is not confined to Europeans, and is mirrored on a global scale. A 2017 global poll found "a median of just 22% has confidence in Trump to do the right thing when it comes to international affairs". This compares to a 64% rate of confidence for his predecessor Barack Obama.

The evidence would suggest that the question should not be "why is Trump hated so much in X", but rather, "why is Trump not hated so much in some parts of America"?
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:57 PM
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Trump has behaved very badly in the UK, esp. in regards to his golf club in Scotland. He became the role model of terrible behaving ~wealthy American.

Widely seen as a whiny jerk and a complete buffoon. All this before there was any hint of him running for President.

His antagonism to traditional allies like the UK just increased the hate.
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:59 PM
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I think he'd be fairly described as a "yob" in the UK. Which, incidentally, means "fuck" in Russian.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 06-06-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:04 PM
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Trump has behaved very badly in the UK, esp. in regards to his golf club in Scotland. He became the role model of terrible behaving ~wealthy American.

Widely seen as a whiny jerk and a complete buffoon. All this before there was any hint of him running for President.

His antagonism to traditional allies like the UK just increased the hate.
Widely seen as a whiny jerk and a complete buffoon. They got that right.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:08 PM
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...
Widely seen as a whiny jerk and a complete buffoon. All this before there was any hint of him running for President...
And long before he bragged to Prince Charles:
ĎWell, the United States right now has among the cleanest climates there are based on all statistics.í
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:14 PM
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"a complete buffoon"
While he may not be a "complete" buffoon, like Trump, the fact that Boris Johnson is the favorite to become the next British Prime Minister shows that being a buffoon is not seen, by British voters, as an impediment to reaching the highest office.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:29 PM
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While he may not be a "complete" buffoon, like Trump, the fact that Boris Johnson is the favorite to become the next British Prime Minister shows that being a buffoon is not seen, by British voters, as an impediment to reaching the highest office.
The electorates that could make Johnson the next PM aren't at all representative of the entire UK. Mind you, his parliamentary constituents voted for him, and so did London for his stint as Mayor, so point taken.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:39 PM
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While he may not be a "complete" buffoon, like Trump, the fact that Boris Johnson is the favorite to become the next British Prime Minister shows that being a buffoon is not seen, by British voters, as an impediment to reaching the highest office.
I'm telling you, they're still butt-hurt about the tea. It was the beginning of the end of the sun never setting on the British Empire.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:44 PM
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It was the beginning of the end of the sun never setting on the British Empire.
The Empire had hardly got going in 1776!
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:46 PM
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The electorates that could make Johnson the next PM aren't at all representative of the entire UK. Mind you, his parliamentary constituents voted for him, and so did London for his stint as Mayor, so point taken.
Baron, you're in Scotland. Down here in the south it feels as if Johnson is unstoppable. I feel sick.

On that subject - back to Trump. Just an opinion, but as far as this country goes I think there's something for everyone to hate. The left hate him because he is of the far right. Moderates hate him because he's an extreminst. And the right hate him because he's a foreigner (and what's more an upstart American). Greens hate him for his environmental policies. Populists hate everyone who isn't one of their own.

Have I missed anyone out?

j
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:48 PM
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I get that Trump is an easy person to hate.

But with the Baby Trump balloons and the tens of thousands showing up at protests, it leaves me with the impression their distaste for Trump is more of a personal nature.


Oh and by the way, I'd like to give a tip of the hat to my friends across the pond. You guys know how to snark WAY better than us Yanks.
FAKE NEWS:

I kept hearing that there would be ďmassiveĒ rallies against me in the UK, but it was quite the opposite. The big crowds, which the Corrupt Media hates to show, were those that gathered in support of the USA and me. They were big & enthusiastic as opposed to the organized flops!
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:49 PM
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The Empire had hardly got going in 1776!
You know how it is when you're at a party and then one guest leaves.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:50 PM
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The electorates that could make Johnson the next PM aren't at all representative of the entire UK.
Now where have I heard that sort of thing before?
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:52 PM
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In a nutshell; massive wanker.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:54 PM
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I think it's also that they're watching the rise of a new Hitler, and their experience of the previous one is a lot more personal than ours.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:58 PM
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Now where have I heard that sort of thing before?
In this case the two constituencies that have a vote on this are 1) the 300-and-change Conservative MPs in Parliament, and after they've narrowed it down to two final candidates then 2) the 150,000 or so paid-up members of the Conservative Party. That's who decides who the next PM is. As I said, not representative.

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Old 06-06-2019, 04:12 PM
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While he may not be a "complete" buffoon, like Trump, the fact that Boris Johnson is the favorite to become the next British Prime Minister shows that being a buffoon is not seen, by British voters, as an impediment to reaching the highest office.
WAG: Boris may be a buffoon, but at least he's an articulate buffoon. For whatever reason, Brits pay a lot of attention to how people speak. Boris may say moronic thinks, but unlike Trump, he doesn't sound like a moron when saying them.
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:34 PM
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The real question is, why doesn't everyone hate him?
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:44 PM
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British humor is more often aimed at taking buffoons down a peg (Wilt, Bertie Wooster, Blackadder, Yes Minister) and they have a habit of burning people in effigy or doing stuff that would puzzle an anthropologist like running down a hill after a wheel of cheese.
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:52 PM
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doing stuff that would puzzle an anthropologist like running down a hill after a wheel of cheese.
Are you saying other nationalities would just allow the wheel of cheese to escape?
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:01 PM
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Are you saying other nationalities would just allow the wheel of cheese to escape?
Other nationalities might still run after the cheese but they would reserve getting stumbling drunk for celebrations that come after the cheese chasing rather than before, during and after.
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:49 PM
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....and the culture also has its downsides.

(I appreciate that no one bats an eye when I visit and pop into an off license at 8:30am for a bottle of wine. The fact that they're the only ones open on Sunday mornings, not so much.)
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:06 PM
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I get that Trump is an easy person to hate.

But with the Baby Trump balloons and the tens of thousands showing up at protests, it leaves me with the impression their distaste for Trump is more of a personal nature.
I think Trump just got on the UK's bad side right from the start. He's pro brexit, which pisses a lot of people off. He keeps lying about British affairs or just saying stupid shit like "I'd sue the EU for Brexit", whatever that means. It's personal because Trump made it so right from the start by being more up in Britain's business than in other countries where he's made similar high profile state visits.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:07 PM
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UK: 28%
Germany: 10%
France: 9%
Spain: 7%
The correctly question is obviously why has the U.S. gone utterly insane.
And why has the same insanity infected 28% of people in the U.K.

It's not the sentiments of the 72% in the U.K. and the >90% in Germany etc. that are shocking to any civilized human being.

Last edited by Riemann; 06-06-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:18 PM
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As a civilized human being, I am shocked the the Spanish are that much smarter than the French, the Germans, and the British.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:20 PM
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I assume hating the US president (in a mundane, almost joyful way) is kind of the default for the UK public -- Obama was an abberation due to his political skills and charisma.
Not at all; we like or dislike them on an individual basis, according to their perceived qualities.

Obviously, thereís a range of opinion across the population, but broadly speaking, Iíd say it breaks down like this:
We liked Kennedy, didnít much care for Johnson, and disliked Nixon.
Ford seemed like a bit of a twit, but we mostly liked Carter.
Most of us thought Reagan was a dangerous idiot, but Bush The First seemed mostly sensible.
We rather liked Clinton. Bush The Second appeared to combine the worst of Reagan and Ford, so Obama was something of a relief.

We still canít quite believe Trump got elected.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:36 PM
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Not at all; we like or dislike them on an individual basis, according to their perceived qualities.

Obviously, thereís a range of opinion across the population, but broadly speaking, Iíd say it breaks down like this:
We liked Kennedy, didnít much care for Johnson, and disliked Nixon.
Ford seemed like a bit of a twit, but we mostly liked Carter.
Most of us thought Reagan was a dangerous idiot, but Bush The First seemed mostly sensible.
We rather liked Clinton. Bush The Second appeared to combine the worst of Reagan and Ford, so Obama was something of a relief.

We still canít quite believe Trump got elected.
From your list, it looks like the average Briton is similar to the average US Democrat. If you asked the average Canadian, Australian or Japanese what they thought of US presidents, they would probably think much the same thing.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:01 PM
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We still canít quite believe Trump got elected.
As an American, neither can I. But as to how - it was the same process by which you guys voted for Brexit, and by about the same margins, ginned on by pretty much the same people.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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I'm telling you, they're still butt-hurt about the tea. It was the beginning of the end of the sun never setting on the British Empire.
I suspect you're kidding but ... just in case.

If you stood in a British street and asked a succession of passers by whether they knew anything about tea being poured into a harbour I think it's fair to say you would ask a lot of people before you found anyone who understood the reference.

I have noticed that some people labour under the impression that the British are deeply concerned about the events of the 1770's, the reality is that most people are barely aware of them. Britain has a lot of history and a bunch of colonies in the latter half of the eighteenth century getting pissed off with the, then, government is really a very small part of it.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:51 PM
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Bush The Second appeared to combine the worst of Reagan and Ford
Best characterisation of him I've ever read.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:57 PM
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He wants to take out the NHS. That's sufficient.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:25 PM
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As a civilized human being, I am shocked the the Spanish are that much smarter than the French, the Germans, and the British.
Why is that?
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:47 PM
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The evidence would suggest that the question should not be "why is Trump hated so much in X", but rather, "why is Trump not hated so much in some parts of America"?
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The real question is, why doesn't everyone hate him?
This is the correct response. The fact that about 40% of Americans approve of Trump is mind boggling and deeply disturbing.

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He wants to take out the NHS. That's sufficient.
I saw a clip of a press conference with Theresa May where Trump was asked about the NHS in the context of a trade agreement, and of course he answered like a kid who hadn't done the required reading. But I was left wondering what the NHS had to do with trade and why an American President would be asked about it. What was the deal? Do US Presidents have some influence on British health care policy?

Anyway, my guess is that Trump's apparent desire to undermine NATO, which has helped guarantee peace in Europe for 70+ years, also doesn't sit well with Britain, who has probably enjoyed going the past several decades without sending a generation of its young people to be killed on the Continent.

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 06-06-2019 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:59 PM
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In most of Europe, and particularly Britain, the media is very critical about politicians of all stripes.
Witness the US ambassador to the Netherlands trying to play the "fake news" card and being humiliated, or Shapiro's recent interview with the right-wing journalist Andrew Neil.
For us, it's unbelievable to watch, say, Sarah Sanders lie repeatedly, and even use childish insults against people who correctly point out errors or wrongdoing by the government. She should be utterly humiliated and forced to apologize after any single instance.

Let alone Trump.
Trump is way beyond the pale: he exhibits a level of childishness, vindictiveness and frankly stupidity that is orders of magnitude beyond what you can get away with in the UK; and yeah even including Farage and Boris.

But more specifically some of the policy decisions he's made are unforgiveable, again even to those on the right wing. e.g. both sides of the aisle agree climate change is a significant problem, so pulling out of the paris accords (while understanding fuck all about the science) is enough for 70-80 percent of the population to hate him right there. Then add on about a dozen things like that.

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Old 06-06-2019, 10:15 PM
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I saw a clip of a press conference with Theresa May where Trump was asked about the NHS in the context of a trade agreement, and of course he answered like a kid who hadn't done the required reading. But I was left wondering what the NHS had to do with trade and why an American President would be asked about it. What was the deal? Do US Presidents have some influence on British health care policy?
At the risk of oversimplifying:

1. The NHS is a huge buyer of drugs.

2. They use their market power to influence prices. Basically, they evaluate the clinical benefits of the drug, they look at the cost of development and production, and they decide what they are willing to pay for it. You sell to them at that price, or you don't sell to them.

3. For obv. reasons big pharma doesn't like this. They'd much rather it was they who set the prices.

4. Tariffs are already low. These days, trade deals are all about reducing non-tariff barriers. Big pharma seens the NHS's monopsonist position as a non-tariff barrier. They'll be pressing for any UK/US trade deal to include "fair procedures" for tenderers to the NHS.

5. Simlarly with any contracting-out of services that the NHS may engage in. They'll be looking for terms in the trade agreement which guarantee their ability to participate in that market, and on terms that are profit-friendly.

Basdically, whenever you privatise or part=privatise a public service by contracting it out, there are tensions between (a) the interests of tenderers, who want to maximise their profit in providing the service, (b) the interests of taxpayers, who want to minimise the cost of buying the services and (c) the interets of users, who want a high quality of service. There's a widespread distrust in the UK of the Tory right, and of the Brexit movement, both of whom are suspected of having a strong ideological preference for privatisation, and of being attentive to the interests of business profitability over those of taxpayes and service users, which will skew the balance when these tensions play out. And there's a justifiable pride in the publicly-provided, free-to-users, National Health Service. It all adds up to a huge degree of mistrust as to what the agenda is here, and how it would play out.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:27 PM
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Interesting. Thanks, UDS!
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:58 PM
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Not bad UDS but I think all you meant to say is NHS is on the table, and it will be a phenomenal deal.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:14 PM
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One of Trump's maddening traits is that he's incapable of saying anything isn't on the table. He axiomatically will not rule anything out, because he believes that's a bad negotiating tactic. If you asked him if he was considering starting a nuclear war with Europe, he would refuse to say he absolutely was not (cite).

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 06-06-2019 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:27 PM
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In this case the two constituencies that have a vote on this are 1) the 300-and-change Conservative MPs in Parliament, and after they've narrowed it down to two final candidates then 2) the 150,000 or so paid-up members of the Conservative Party. That's who decides who the next PM is. As I said, not representative.
And who voted in the
300-and-change Conservative MPs in Parliament?

They represent just about half the electorate.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:39 PM
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The real question is, why doesn't everyone hate him?
Because (a) American politics has a significant lunatic fringe component -- e.g.- government-haters, conspiracy theorists, "sovereign citizens", etc., and (b) though the former is nevertheless a minority of the electorate, the majority can't be arsed to get out of their recliners and vote; the extent to which Americans don't vote is almost unprecedented among major democracies. So the short answer is that they mostly do hate him, and Trump was elected by an enthusiastic minority of rebellious lunatics plus diehard Republicans who would vote for an orangutan if it had an "R" after its name -- or for Trump, or Steve King, or Louie Gohmert, or Roy Moore.
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:57 PM
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As a civilized human being, I am shocked the the Spanish are that much smarter than the French, the Germans, and the British.
Eh, not smarter: just very, very used to being the target of international trolling / war by proxy, and proud of our own trolls.

The way forococheros see it, Russians need to pay for trolling; a forocochero does it as a labor of love. (Forocoches is the biggest troll city in the Spanish-speaking sections of the internet.)
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:24 AM
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And who voted in the
300-and-change Conservative MPs in Parliament?

They represent just about half the electorate.
42%. The UK electoral system is odd that way.

But what of it? The MPs vote in what are analogous to the primaries; winnowing out the candidates so that the number is reduced to two. But the winner is chosen by the deeply unrepresentative selectorate that is the branch membership of the Tory party.
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:37 AM
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Anyway, my guess is that Trump's apparent desire to undermine NATO, which has helped guarantee peace in Europe for 70+ years, also doesn't sit well with Britain, who has probably enjoyed going the past several decades without sending a generation of its young people to be killed on the Continent.
Nato really isn't front of mind for British people - we give our fair share to it, and pull our weight militarily around the globe, and really don't look upon America as protecting us.

More likely, we look upon America as bullying us, and Trump is the biggest bully in the playground. And as giant twat, let's face it.
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Old 06-07-2019, 02:53 AM
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The UK isn't an outlier in this respect. Not that every country holds massive protests when he comes to visit (I couldn't find any particular evidence of protests in France or Germany). But it hasn't been uncommon in Europe. Cause, y'know, he's hugely influential plus also completely fucking awful
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:41 AM
Wrenching Spanners is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London
Posts: 332
From an opinion column this morning:
Quote:
Trump, of course, is different. This faux-pas barely registers on the ever-growing list of conventions he has ridden roughshod over at home and abroad: appointing family members, hiding business ventures that pose conflicts of interest with foreign policy, attacking opponents in the most crude and personal terms, inventing policy via tweet, trying to meddle with a federal investigation, and repeating known falsehoods before lambasting the “fake news media” for reporting that they are untrue.
https://www.cityam.com/trump-forfeit...ency-deserves/

Last edited by Wrenching Spanners; 06-07-2019 at 06:41 AM.
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