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  #51  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:12 AM
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This whole thread reminds me of the classic, "As a matter of fact, I am the fucking hall monitor" thread.
  #52  
Old 08-26-2019, 09:58 AM
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Don't know if Ficer67 is still with us, but in case he's still reading:

Ficer, what you have to do is pre-empt the anticipated responses in an OP like that. If you mentally anticipate that someone is going to give you a response like, "Just mentally add up the discrepancy in the PDF pages," then mention that in your OP itself. Say, "I know that I can simply mentally add 9 pages to the page I want to search for, but is there a way to circumvent that so I can actually get to page 141 directly simply by typing in "141" instead of having to do mental-math gymnastics?"

Otherwise you end up with the frustrating situation TokyoBayer highlighted, where you say "80% of people will suggest Thing X and I know Thing X but want a solution other than Thing X" and people will give you Thing X.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:08 AM
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I understand getting frustrated by the snarky responses, but keep in mind it's why there are so many people available to provide helpful answers on a huge variety of topics. That entertainment value is part of the reason people hang around. If things were more cut-and-dry, then people would drift away to places which provided more entertainment. Instead of being able to ask any question on any topic in GQ, you would have to go to an IT board to ask PDF questions, biology forum to ask biology question, physics board to ask a physics question, etc.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:26 AM
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I understand getting frustrated by the snarky responses, but keep in mind it's why there are so many people available to provide helpful answers on a huge variety of topics. That entertainment value is part of the reason people hang around. If things were more cut-and-dry, then people would drift away to places which provided more entertainment. Instead of being able to ask any question on any topic in GQ, you would have to go to an IT board to ask PDF questions, biology forum to ask biology question, physics board to ask a physics question, etc.
I don't think you quite understand the utility of a message board like this. It exists only to serve my needs. Screw everybody else who might want to read it casually for any reason other than to respond to me, in the way that I deem is most helpful.
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  #55  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:53 AM
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Thanks for the link. This clears up the confusion as to why this thread was started in the first place.
As well as clarifies that thread. Now we see why he believes everyone in the world is mistreating him.
  #56  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:22 PM
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I understand getting frustrated by the snarky responses, but keep in mind it's why there are so many people available to provide helpful answers on a huge variety of topics. That entertainment value is part of the reason people hang around. If things were more cut-and-dry, then people would drift away to places which provided more entertainment. Instead of being able to ask any question on any topic in GQ, you would have to go to an IT board to ask PDF questions, biology forum to ask biology question, physics board to ask a physics question, etc.
This is a clever but kind reply, from which Ficer could really learn something.

On the other hand, I don't think ridiculing Ficer's approach for the rest of the thread is an intelligent, mature, or effective way to fight ignorance.
  #57  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:37 PM
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I understand getting frustrated by the snarky responses, but keep in mind it's why there are so many people available to provide helpful answers on a huge variety of topics. That entertainment value is part of the reason people hang around. If things were more cut-and-dry, then people would drift away to places which provided more entertainment. Instead of being able to ask any question on any topic in GQ, you would have to go to an IT board to ask PDF questions, biology forum to ask biology question, physics board to ask a physics question, etc.
Be that as it may, I think that mockery or sarcasm in such threads may also discourage posters from participating or contributing as well. If someone has a potentially embarrassing or sensitive question that they want to ask in GQ, the knowledge that they may not get serious responses, but simply knifing mockery may stifle them. I don't think the OP's question about PDFs fits that description, but GQ ought to be a forum in which people can ask any factual question they want, and get a serious, factual response.
  #58  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:42 PM
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On the other hand, I don't think ridiculing Ficer's approach for the rest of the thread is an intelligent, mature, or effective way to fight ignorance.
He started it.
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  #59  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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Be that as it may, I think that mockery or sarcasm in such threads may also discourage posters from participating or contributing as well. If someone has a potentially embarrassing or sensitive question that they want to ask in GQ, the knowledge that they may not get serious responses, but simply knifing mockery may stifle them. I don't think the OP's question about PDFs fits that description, but GQ ought to be a forum in which people can ask any factual question they want, and get a serious, factual response.
But GQ is already that forum, isn't it? Humorous replies are only allowed after the question has been factually answered. And Ficer67 incorrectly claimed that excavating (for a mind) was being a smartass when he gave a serious answer to the question.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:54 PM
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But GQ is already that forum, isn't it? Humorous replies are only allowed after the question has been factually answered. And Ficer67 incorrectly claimed that excavating (for a mind) was being a smartass when he gave a serious answer to the question.
I agree that excavating wasn't being a smartass, he was only given the only factual answer he could give. But as for the "humor is allowed after the factual answer is given," I don't think that helps. Suppose someone has a question, "Why do I get so many yeast infections" or "why is one of my testicles so much larger than the other," then the knowledge that they'll get a factual answer, but then thereafter be subjected to subsequent teasing and mockery is still a deterrent to their asking what's on their mind.
  #61  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:18 PM
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Oh, I see now. He's the guy who already knows everything. His mission in life is to show everyone how smart he is and how little they know. Makes perfect sense now.
I actually went and skimmed over a bunch of threads he's created and he definitely isn't that kind of poster. The vast majority of his threads are in GQ and he's often careful to thank people who post answers in them.

Most of his GQ questions are very specific (honestly, many would be better suited to more focused forums rather than a general knowledge board like ours), and so only got a few replies. So - two factors: staying almost entirely in GQ and almost exclusively starting "one and done" question and answer threads, which tend to have less snark than longer discussions.

I think Ficer67 should come back and keep asking questions - he just needs to remember that he's going to occasionally catch some good-natured smart-assery from time to time: even in GQ.
  #62  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:41 PM
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I agree that excavating wasn't being a smartass, he was only given the only factual answer he could give. But as for the "humor is allowed after the factual answer is given," I don't think that helps. Suppose someone has a question, "Why do I get so many yeast infections" or "why is one of my testicles so much larger than the other," then the knowledge that they'll get a factual answer, but then thereafter be subjected to subsequent teasing and mockery is still a deterrent to their asking what's on their mind.
Despite the high level of snark (which AFAICT has always been present in GQ) I think sensitive issues normally are discussed sensitively. If someone were to ask, for example, "How much does it cost for in vitro fertilization?" anyone who came in with a smart-ass answer would be rightfully hooted out of the thread, and perhaps right off the board.

It's the legitimate but not earth-shatteringly serious questions that are snark bait. Unfortunately for Ficer67 that's exactly the category "ways to deal with a PDF" falls into.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:43 PM
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I actually went and skimmed over a bunch of threads he's created and he definitely isn't that kind of poster. The vast majority of his threads are in GQ and he's often careful to thank people who post answers in them.

Most of his GQ questions are very specific (honestly, many would be better suited to more focused forums rather than a general knowledge board like ours), and so only got a few replies. So - two factors: staying almost entirely in GQ and almost exclusively starting "one and done" question and answer threads, which tend to have less snark than longer discussions.

I think Ficer67 should come back and keep asking questions - he just needs to remember that he's going to occasionally catch some good-natured smart-assery from time to time: even in GQ.
Well, he shouldn't leave on my account.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 08-26-2019 at 03:43 PM.
  #64  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:56 PM
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Despite the high level of snark (which AFAICT has always been present in GQ) I think sensitive issues normally are discussed sensitively. If someone were to ask, for example, "How much does it cost for in vitro fertilization?" anyone who came in with a smart-ass answer would be rightfully hooted out of the thread, and perhaps right off the board.

It's the legitimate but not earth-shatteringly serious questions that are snark bait. Unfortunately for Ficer67 that's exactly the category "ways to deal with a PDF" falls into.
Yeah, that's true. It's been stated before that misogynistic replies and other answers of that sort won't be tolerated and will be dealt with by the mods.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:32 PM
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I’m an IT support professional, been doing it for decades. Helping people with questions like that is what I do. And substantively, that answer is what I would have given.
Me too, for quite a few years. And that was absolutely not the answer I would have given. I don't understand how it could come across as anything other than sarcastic and condescending.

It may be that you could have phrased the same answer, in substance, in such a way that it didn't come across that way. Or that your organization is a bit looser than my employer.

But I wouldn't have done it.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:34 PM
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Coupla things.

As was mentioned up there, wiseneimer remarks are part of the charm of this place.

Was how many books from the Straight Dope columns you have read? Are you familiar with the newspaper column itself or who Cecil Adam's is?

The much beloved MAD magazine used to have an ongoing series articles called " snappy answers to stupid questions" . It predates The Straight Dope by decades.

If you are fond of that kind of humor than you have found a home.

If you are irritated by it you might want to veer over to reddit !

Or.....learn to embrace it and be welcome here!!

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  #67  
Old 08-26-2019, 07:36 PM
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What do you call the phenomenon when a professional charges you a consultation fee, but then informs you of everything you already know, and talks to you as if you don't know anything....

I am looking for the name of a hustle. And, every professional has done this to me, doctors, lawyers, engineers, computer technicians, carpenters, plumbers....
Possibly the phrase he was looking for is Dunning-Krugerfication.
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  #68  
Old 08-26-2019, 11:17 PM
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What I want to now is, how did the OP get away with calling someone a smart-ass in GQ?
The participants thought the remark was too stupid to report. They handled it themselves.

What I want to know is why someone who's been on the board since 2002 apparently doesn't know what it's like and how it works but blows up suddenly. Whatever.
  #69  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:32 AM
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Don't know if Ficer67 is still with us, but in case he's still reading:



Ficer, what you have to do is pre-empt the anticipated responses in an OP like that. If you mentally anticipate that someone is going to give you a response like, "Just mentally add up the discrepancy in the PDF pages," then mention that in your OP itself. Say, "I know that I can simply mentally add 9 pages to the page I want to search for, but is there a way to circumvent that so I can actually get to page 141 directly simply by typing in "141" instead of having to do mental-math gymnastics?"



Otherwise you end up with the frustrating situation TokyoBayer highlighted, where you say "80% of people will suggest Thing X and I know Thing X but want a solution other than Thing X" and people will give you Thing X.
Oh no. That doesn’t prevent people from doing that. You can explicitly state something like I did, and you’ll still get responses suggesting you do what you have already rejected.

There are lots of posters who give stupid advice or opinions. Right now in GQ, there’s a thread about Chinese using English names which is filled with irrelevant personal anecdotes and bad speculation. If the OP were to take it personally he would be throwing his computer out the window by now.

You just need to have thicker skin. Considering the other thread started by this OP, it seems they have a pretty thin skin in general.
  #70  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:42 AM
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Ok People,

I am entertaining the thought that I could have done a better job of handling Excavating's condescending and presumptuous remark. As Mr. Finn has pointed out, I could have said, "Thanks..."
Not “Thankyou”?
  #71  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:46 AM
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"why is one of my testicles so much larger than the other,"
The question is, "why is one of my testicles so much smaller than the other two?".
  #72  
Old 08-27-2019, 07:23 AM
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I think I'll break ranks here and say I prefer not to see the kind of first response that the PDF thread received.
(assuming there is no back story from other threads...a dangerous assumption to make at times)

It was a mildly funny workaround given with a bit of a condescending tone that didn't actually tell the OP anything new.
The response didn't say any form of "unfortunately there is no way to do that" or "it is difficult because of X, Y, and Z". Rather it was just a funny post for the sake of being clever. It is certain the OP already knew this workaround.

But I freely admit that I am more conservative than most when it comes to the "keep the first response straight" guideline.
  #73  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:14 AM
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The thing is that we don't know what the OP knows. Sometimes the obvious solution hasn't occurred to them or they forgot. Unless the OP tells us what they have tried, we are likely to suggest something "obvious" like that.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 08-27-2019 at 08:14 AM.
  #74  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:34 AM
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The thing is that we don't know what the OP knows. Sometimes the obvious solution hasn't occurred to them or they forgot. Unless the OP tells us what they have tried, we are likely to suggest something "obvious" like that.
Nothing wrong with suggesting something obvious. That wasn't my point.

I don't read the first response to that thread as an honest helpful response--it's more of a joke post. That's just my opinion, and as I alluded to I realize many feel this kind of snark is part of the culture here and enjoy it.
  #75  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:38 AM
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I really didn't read it as a joke post. It seemed an entirely sincere suggestion. I really don't see how the OP and others thought there was snark there.

FYI, here it is, to refresh your memory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by excavating (for a mind) View Post
This is easy. In your mind, add 9 to the page you want to go and you'll be there!

For example, if you want to go to page 34, add nine and get 43. Then tell it to go to page 43 and you'll be at page 34.

Or, if you wanted to go to page 43, add nine and get 52. Tell it to go to page 52 and you'll be on page 43.

Easy-Peasy, Lemon-Squeezy .

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 08-27-2019 at 08:39 AM.
  #76  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:21 AM
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I really didn't read it as a joke post. It seemed an entirely sincere suggestion. I really don't see how the OP and others thought there was snark there.

FYI, here it is, to refresh your memory.
Now, I did initially read it as a joke post, hence my lamenting joke answers in GQ. I've since been shown that it was most likely a legit answer, of a sort anyway, and that rather disarms my criticism. But it does strike me as an 'answer lite'.
  #77  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:38 AM
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"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Well, don't do that."

"I am new to New York. How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

"Every day - you must practice!"

AKA "if I wanted to get where you want to go, I wouldn't start from where you are."

Yes, they're answers, but...

Regards,
Shodan
  #78  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:50 AM
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"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

"Well, don't do that."

"I am new to New York. How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"

"Every day - you must practice!"

AKA "if I wanted to get where you want to go, I wouldn't start from where you are."

Yes, they're answers, but...
But I don't see how this pertains to the answer given in the thread being talked about.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 08-27-2019 at 09:50 AM.
  #79  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:23 AM
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I really didn't read it as a joke post. It seemed an entirely sincere suggestion. I really don't see how the OP and others thought there was snark there.

FYI, here it is, to refresh your memory.
The snark, IMHO, is in the "Easy-Peasy, Lemon-Squeezy" comment and also part of the tone (the exclamation mark, etc.)
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:34 AM
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But I don't see how this pertains to the answer given in the thread being talked about.
Reboot your computer, and then read the thread again.

Regards,
Shodan
  #81  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:35 AM
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The snark, IMHO, is in the "Easy-Peasy, Lemon-Squeezy" comment and also part of the tone (the exclamation mark, etc.)
I think that last line was informal, but it really doesn't seem snarky to me.
  #82  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:40 AM
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Reboot your computer, and then read the thread again.

Regards,
Shodan
Reboot it? I haven't even booted it once yet (thanks to anger management classes).
  #83  
Old 08-27-2019, 11:54 AM
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I think the question is ambiguous. Ficer67 asks, "So, how can I fix this?"

What is "this?" Is it,

A) coping with the discrepancy between the numbering of the "hard copy" and the pages as counted by MS Edge,

B) altering the way MS Edge counts pages in a PDF, or,

C) altering the way pages are encoded in a particular PDF?

excavating answered question A. This is the most practical way to deal with the problem (besides maybe printing the PDF).

B is impossible (assuming based on the thread) because the MS Edge PDF renderer is basic and light on features.

C is impractical for most users. I would use a command line tool on linux. There are probably dozens of finnicky, GUI shovelware PDF editors for Windows, but you'd need to research a good one that supports exactly the feature you want, maybe buy it, and learn to use it. Ain't nobody got time for that.

So the solution to use Adobe Reader is good. And, excavating's response was reasonable: it's the fastest, easiest way, in the context of the question as asked.
  #84  
Old 08-27-2019, 12:22 PM
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We're all asses here! Some of us are smart asses, and some of us are dumb asses.
Shouldn't asses be graded on the curve?
  #85  
Old 08-27-2019, 02:54 PM
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Shouldn't asses be graded on the curve?
I'd like to know the intended purpose of grading. I don't want to have to later ask what asses assessment meant.
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  #86  
Old 08-27-2019, 03:13 PM
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I'd like to know the intended purpose of grading. I don't want to have to later ask what asses assessment meant.
It's prep for when you're planning an a-butt-ment.
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  #87  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:42 PM
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This thread has me considering ponying up for the custom title of "Licensed Smartass."

But I don't think I will, because that'd be too hard to live up too. There are too many others around here who are better at it than I am.
  #88  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:13 PM
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This thread has me considering ponying up for the custom title of "Licensed Smartass."

But I don't think I will, because that'd be too hard to live up too. There are too many others around here who are better at it than I am.
If you're licensed, the mods can't give you warnings.

Or so I've heard.
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:44 PM
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This thread has me considering ponying up for the custom title of "Licensed Smartass."

But I don't think I will, because that'd be too hard to live up too. There are too many others around here who are better at it than I am.

You're welcome to my fall-back if you want it

Where am I going?
Why am I in this hand-basket?
  #90  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:04 PM
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Me too, for quite a few years. And that was absolutely not the answer I would have given. I don't understand how it could come across as anything other than sarcastic and condescending.

It may be that you could have phrased the same answer, in substance, in such a way that it didn't come across that way. Or that your organization is a bit looser than my employer.

But I wouldn't have done it.
Note that I said substantively. In other words, if you’re using Edge to view PDFs, you accept its limitations and it’s not difficult to mentally adjust page count. I do it all the time with various PDF readers; if I have a book in PDF form in iBooks for example I just adapt.

But as you implied I wouldn’t have used the same tone. I don’t even use that tone on these boards when offering help, which I do on occasion, let alone in my professional role in real life. It requires some humility to ask for help, and a person is making themselves vulnerable when doing so. I don’t think I need to spit on them and make them feel stupid as I help them, because next time they’re not going to bother asking and take the risk of looking stupid again.

I never disputed the idea that people were being smart-asses. I disputed the assertion that they were “people who don't know anything”, and by implication were not answering the request for help. That’s absolutely not true; the question was answered correctly. If the complaint was merely about the way the answer was phrased I’d have supported the OP. But that wasn’t the complaint, and the OP didn’t really do much to earn my sympathy here.
  #91  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:21 PM
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Be that as it may, I think that mockery or sarcasm in such threads may also discourage posters from participating or contributing as well... I don't think the OP's question about PDFs fits that description, but GQ ought to be a forum in which people can ask any factual question they want, and get a serious, factual response.
And then some clever comments? Please? I don't just want a dry dictionary answer. I come here for some wit with my facts, and a more creative solution.

Actually, it's exactly what I'd get if I asked one of the geniuses at work. Sure, I could get a harmless answer from Bertram in Accounts Receivable. But Roberta in Design will look at my problem from five different angles, give me a new answer I'd've never thought of by myself... and then make a comment about all the pockets in my "Dad Shorts".
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