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  #301  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:20 PM
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You seem to be implying that there's some sort of contradiction here. Trudeau basically said, yes, he did the things mentioned in the report, but he doesn't believe they were necessarily wrong. From the news story: "Even though I disagree with some of his conclusions, I fully accept this report and take responsibility for everything that happened," he said. "Where I disagree with the commissioner, amongst others, is where he says, and takes a strong perspective, that any contact with the (attorney general) on this issue was improper."

This was poor judgment on his part and the second time he's been on the receiving end of an ethics commissioner's report. Not good. But I do find Scheer's political grandstanding to be annoying, probably because I find Scheer himself rather cynically opportunistic and annoying.
As much as I hope Trudeau stops stepping on his on crank with his golf shoes on (because I do not want a Conservative Prime Minister, like... ever) I am compelled to note that if a person goes to a parole hearing and says they accept responsibility but they don't think they did anything wrong they will not be getting parole.
  #302  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:30 AM
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This was poor judgment on his part and the second time he's been on the receiving end of an ethics commissioner's report. Not good. But I do find Scheer's political grandstanding to be annoying, probably because I find Scheer himself rather cynically opportunistic and annoying.


What annoys me about Scheer and the Conservatives is, they likely never would have pressured the Justice Minister, because they wouldn't have had to pressure them. Their JM would have agreed with the PM and gone along with the plans willingly.

I don't think that would have been better for the country overall.
  #303  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:31 AM
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wolfpup, all politicians come across as annoying when viewed through the media. I find they tend to be much better if you can catch them outside that framing. Still, their driver is vote getting so cynically opportunistic is almost a given.

That said I read http://ciec-ccie.parl.gc.ca/EN/Repor...uIIReport.aspx and I want future PMs to seriously deliberate before attempting the same kinds of actions and so there needs to be consequences. I'm fine with a Conservative, NDP or Green government so long as those governments fear to try the same kind of actions. In my view that kind of norm establishing is more important than having the Liberals in power.
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  #304  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:29 PM
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For some reason Trudeau decided to go on the Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj and got his ass handed to him on a variety of issues including climate change hypocrisy, arms sales to Saudi Arabia and Indigenous rights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDPeXoQUrbI

As I have said before, none of those things get better if there is a Conservative PM in office but damn Trudeau, stop trying to help yourself already.
  #305  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:56 PM
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This just in:

The National Post still hates Trudeau, and wants you to hate him too.
  #306  
Old 09-05-2019, 02:36 PM
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Latest polls show the liberals leading in seats and if the election were held today are the favorites for another majority.

God help us all.
  #307  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:13 PM
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I'm not overly fond of Trudeau... I think he could have done much better on many, many fronts, and am not pleased with his complete backdown on his promise to fix (or at least seriously consider fixing) our "first past the post" system. And buying a pipeline simply pissed of those who want it as much as those who don't...

But he has done a few good things and some things have worked in his favour. He's handled Trump (loose cannon) about as well as anyone could have done, given that even Trump's closest aides have no idea what idiot thing will come out of his pie-hole at any given moment. Our unemployment rate is better than it's been in the past 40 years. Growth rate is OK. Environmental file is "meh", could be better.

He's stepped on his own dick on a number of occasions, but this has been mostly politically damaging - I don't see a huge impact to the country from most of his bone-head moves.

Not that fond of Scheer either. I'm not entirely sure what he stands for, or what ideas he has for direction for the country. I admit this may be partly my fault for not digging in depth. But I really don't know what he stands for other than "I'm not Trudeau"

So if Scheer got in, I would not say "God help us all". Because I don't think we would all go to Hell in a Handcart. Neither will we if the Liberals get a majority. Nor if there is a minority situation. We're actually in pretty good shape.

One problem I see is the trend to polarize the public. A leader is not just wrong... he's EEEEVIL. A party will not form a poorly performing government.... It's "GOD HELP US!!" if the other party is elected. It's this polarization and conversion of politics into a team sport that is the danger, I feel.
  #308  
Old 09-05-2019, 09:56 PM
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Trudeau has done an okay job, in my view.

Trade with the US is hugely important for Canada. Trump may not be the easiest person to work with, and Freeland and Trudeau deserve credit for including Mulroney and pulling out a lot of stops.

I believe Trudeau and his key aides to be well-meaning, capable and with decent hearts and values.

Trudeau raised expectations with flowery language about inclusivity, election reform and other changes, some of which would have been helpful. But the old systems suddenly seemed to work okay for the Liberals and the talk often never progressed further.

The pipeline file was difficult for Harper. Trudeau wanted a compromise between environmentalists and business which satisfied few, and confounded this with increased attention to Aboriginal issues which won him little support either from First Nations or those who prioritize other issues.

China is a difficult problem. But it is hard to see a lot of concrete results here. It is good to have principled views on foreign policy, but expressing them on Twitter might be best left to other governments.

Although the SNC-Lavalin affair was, in my view, overblown, it (and the Mark Norman case) reveals traditional patterns of influence which understandably upset some regions.

Although I think torture is very difficult to forgive or justify, and understand government hands were tied by court decisions, it is hard to see justice in some generous awards to some dubious people. I would like to see more support for the military. And military procurement seems like a mess for every party, is it not possible to make it more practical and stable and less political?
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  #309  
Old 09-06-2019, 09:48 AM
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Canada is a federation where the national powers and provincial responsibilities are sharply divided. Getting agreement from all the provinces is very difficult since they want funding without loss of power. Trudeau has had difficulty in making improvements and not been yet able to implement some sensible national programs such as inter provincial free (or freer) trade, Pharmacare, regulation of certain industries and funding reform. He has not been overly courageous about speaking out about some dubious laws or challenging vested interests.

The economy has done okay with some clouds on the horizon.

Trudeau will benefit from what currently seems to be a very weak NDP party to his left. The Greens are more popular than ever but it remains to be seen if they can win many seats.

Scheer, the Conservative candidate, has not yet made a deep impression on the Canadian public. Sticking to a budget would go some way to help. He could do better; but this thread is more about Trudeau.
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  #310  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:39 AM
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Canada is a federation where the national powers and provincial responsibilities are sharply divided. Getting agreement from all the provinces is very difficult since they want funding without loss of power. Trudeau has had difficulty in making improvements and not been yet able to implement some sensible national programs such as inter provincial free (or freer) trade, Pharmacare, regulation of certain industries and funding reform. He has not been overly courageous about speaking out about some dubious laws or challenging vested interests.

The economy has done okay with some clouds on the horizon.

Trudeau will benefit from what currently seems to be a very weak NDP party to his left. The Greens are more popular than ever but it remains to be seen if they can win many seats.

Scheer, the Conservative candidate, has not yet made a deep impression on the Canadian public. Sticking to a budget would go some way to help. He could do better; but this thread is more about Trudeau.
I hope that Scheer does badly so that we might have some hope of a return of the Progressive Conservative party, if not in name, then at least in policy. The PPC is obviously not that. They are the most American party Canada has seen to date, and it is very concerning. It is worrying that we might be starting to see American-style politics showing up in Canada, as evidenced by comments like that made by Sam Stone above. Can we avoid becoming as venomously partisan as the USA? I sure hope so, but the early signs are there that we will not.

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  #311  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:26 PM
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Polarizing smeers aren't new - remember the Liberal add with ominous marching footsteps about how Harper was going to put the military into cities?

As for the Conservatives...well they're not the Liberals but they hold fundamentally the same values - democratic elections, individual liberty, free markets and pluralism. Which aspects get more attention naturally varies between them but we're not about to become a some sort of libertarian cloaked theocracy if the Conservatives get elected. We're also not about to become some sort of centrally planned hellscape if the Greens or NDP get in, Sam's view not withstanding.

As with every election I'll look at what they've one and what they say they'll do and vote accordingly. The Liberals promised electoral reform and they failed. They didn't even try to do it well. They've managed Trump well and they got the CETA agreement over the line when the EU balked. They got weed legalized...so yeah whatever. They've broadly band aided First Nation reconciliation but that's something no one party is going to fix. They've failed to reduce trade barrier between provinces or improve infrastructure (especially energy and trade). The budget balancing, while not critical, should have been working to ensure a broader range of options in the event of recession. Immigration wise, they've been fine but the response to uncontrolled crossings ha been too muddled.

At this point for me it'll be approached to China, SNC, and proposed national infrastructure spending I'll be looking at. The Liberals aren't looking great to me at this point.
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  #312  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:41 PM
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Polarizing smeers aren't new - remember the Liberal add with ominous marching footsteps about how Harper was going to put the military into cities?
I do remember it. And it was disgusting, and I criticized it heavily among my friends/social media. In fact, as I recall, I said more or less what I said above about it. My hope is that Canada can avoid these kind of extreme polarizing "The other party is evil, and will bring ruin and doom upon us!" The country will survive Scheer, Trudeau, Singh, or May. I'm not too sure about Bernier. The mere existence of a party so extreme as the PPC is very scary to me.

I cannot see me voting for Scheer as the CPoC seems too socially regressive, and I don't think they will take needed action on climate change. Climate change for me is my #1 issue. Trudeau will likely get my vote simply because the Liberal party most closely represents my beliefs, although again, I would like to see a return of a conservative party that isn't too socially regressive, e.g. the Progressive Conservatives.

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  #313  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:57 PM
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It's the nuances I agree. The ethical lapses and really weirdly bad approach to China have pushed me out of supporting the Liberals. The Conservatives' weirdly reflexive rejection of a market based approach like a carbon tax has me throwing my hands up w.r.t. their apparent disdain for science/expertise. The PPC is a party focused almost exclusively on immigration despite trying to link it to other topics. The Greens might be decent but at the same time they come across as a single topic party but I see them as potentially open to a variety of approaches to it.

We'll see I guess.
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  #314  
Old 09-07-2019, 03:39 PM
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If Scheer spends a lot of time talking about immigration and abortion, I think he will lose the election. He would be better served by talking about foreign policy, budgets, fiscal prudence and (!) the environment.
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  #315  
Old 09-07-2019, 07:03 PM
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If Scheer spends a lot of time talking about immigration and abortion, I think he will lose the election. He would be better served by talking about foreign policy, budgets, fiscal prudence and (!) the environment.

The problem is, no one who has been paying attention will believe a word of that. He's blowing the same trumpet Trump, Ford and Kenney were blowing, and any one who's paid attention has seen that it's all hot air. They have no plan beyond cut taxes for the rich, and cut spending, and that's been shown not to work, repeatedly.


It'd be nice if we had a party that actually was ideologically committed to fiscal responsibility, but we haven't had that for a long time. Surprisingly enough, the current Liberal party probably come closest, but I'm still not sure they really understand this position.
  #316  
Old 09-07-2019, 11:58 PM
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Minority Liberal.

Calling it now.
  #317  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:49 AM
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Trudeau has been in the major newspapers since he was making comments about Trump to Macron and Johnson.

Of course, people know Trump is challenging to deal with and that he frustrates both his aides and other leaders. Of course they talk about Trump.

What surprises me is how polite and boring the comments are. An unscheduled press conference. Trump’s own aides surprised by Trump. Big news!

Of course, Scheer is scandalized. He even looked straight at the camera when denouncing Trudeau’s lack of diplomacy. I understand people would love to hear genuine thoughts on Trump. Hopefully, they will have to wait one year and not five.

Unless the story is Trump reacting to someone not being sufficiently lickspittle. That’s not news either.
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  #318  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:08 PM
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I think this is how you insult people in high diplomatic society. You comment about their lack of consideration for people's time by speaking too long to the press.

Honestly, if you you're going to gossip to your pals at recess about the kid you all hate, at least call him out for being the fat fucking moron that he is.
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  #319  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:31 PM
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That’s just it, though.

The CBC had a web article about how their journalist uncovered and publicized this huge story. Very pleased with himself. Of course, he has the right to do so, and he feels he did his job.

But the articles discuss Trudeau’s massive gaffe and huge mistake in ways that minimize the truth; the comments were mundane. It is true in diplomatic language, insults are subtle. But the novel approach of the CBC might show excessive zeal and be terribly interesting.

If the story is Trump had a hissy fit and the important meeting was cut short to the detriment of all NATO countries, then uncovering this story was a real public service.

But I don’t buy the two-face. The comments were mundane, and diplomats far more creative if they wanted to insult. Trudeau did not say anything significantly insulting, that I can see. What am I missing?
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  #320  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:03 PM
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On some level I think the comments were so benign because Trump is a known and equally reviled quantity to all of them. He's a clown. Why state the obvious. But they still feel the obligation to couch their words carefully because they've all had hot mic moments that came to bite them on the ass. Also, I sense they are good at talking around the subject without explicitly saying the obvious. So "Forty minute press conference" probably meant, 'Can you believe that orange gasbag was bloviating for nearly an hour?... He made you late?... Even his staff think he's an asshole.'
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  #321  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:04 PM
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It is a bizarre story. When I first saw the headlines I though "Oh crap! What did he do now?" then I watched the video and thought "Did he actually insult Trump in any real way?" Then I thought about it some more, and I kind of get how it is a bit insulting to somebody as thin-skinned as Trump, but it seems pretty much ado about nothing to me. But on my insult-o-meter it only registers as a 1.3965 out of 10.
  #322  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:33 PM
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The whole story was crazy. Trudeau's comments were just normal chit-chat, and Trump's response was no big deal for Trump. It was even kind of gracious, in an obnoxious Trumpian kind of way.

This is the media trolling for scandal where there is none.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:50 PM
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This is the media trolling for scandal where there is none.
Yeah, I agree 100%
  #324  
Old 12-05-2019, 03:12 PM
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Except in true Trumpian fashion, he did flounce home early, like the toddler that he is. So it must have got under his thin orange skin.

The optics this time were amplified by previous incidents of laughter at Trump's expense.

Trump remains the poster child "Ugly American" every time he travels abroad. This time was no different.
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:43 PM
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I'd like to see Trudeau just own it, saying something like:

"The national friendship between Canada and the United States is the strongest of its kind anywhere in the world, with over a billion dollars in trade crossing the line each and every day, and is infinitely more important than the feelings of any particular president or any particular prime minister. That said, and in keeping with my own view of the United States as the closest of friends to my beloved Canada, good friends will be honest and direct with each other and if one is behaving like a jackass, a good friend would say so, ideally in private but if necessary in public. I genuinely appreciate the internal conflicts rippling through the United States at this difficult time, and I want our neighbors to know that no matter what happens when this presidency is over and after my own time as prime minster ends, that close friendship of nations will continue."
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  #326  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:07 AM
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I'd like to see Trudeau just own it, saying something like:

"The national friendship between Canada and the United States is the strongest of its kind anywhere in the world...
... and Canadians stand prepared to defend Americans 24/7/365. That's NORAD; it's how Canadians defend Americans every day, from Russian and Chinese attacks over the North Pole.

Our two countries work together, to defend North America, every day. The idea that Mr. Trump proposes, that Canada is not pulling its weight in NATO in some way, neglects the fact that Canada protects the United States each and every day. If Mr. Trump wants to lose that early-warning system that Canada provides, over the North Pole, by withdrawng from NATO, so be it; but it is the United States' loss, not Canada's. We can protect ourselves.

Last edited by Spoons; 12-06-2019 at 05:09 AM.
  #327  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:35 AM
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Well, let's not burn the Rainbow Bridge just yet.
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  #328  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:07 AM
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I'd like to see Trudeau just own it, saying something like:

"The national friendship between Canada and the United States is the strongest of its kind anywhere in the world, with over a billion dollars in trade crossing the line each and every day, and is infinitely more important than the feelings of any particular president or any particular prime minister. That said, and in keeping with my own view of the United States as the closest of friends to my beloved Canada, good friends will be honest and direct with each other and if one is behaving like a jackass, a good friend would say so, ideally in private but if necessary in public. I genuinely appreciate the internal conflicts rippling through the United States at this difficult time, and I want our neighbors to know that no matter what happens when this presidency is over and after my own time as prime minster ends, that close friendship of nations will continue."
Yeahbut, he was caught on camera essentially gossiping with the other kids. Not a good look for any world leader. I think the right thing to do under the circumstances was to say nothing more aboot it.
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  #329  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:54 AM
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Not sure it was gossiping as much as commiserating with other leaders.

Throne speech - apparently insulting to Albertans for reasons that escape me.
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  #330  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:16 AM
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Not sure it was gossiping as much as commiserating with other leaders.

Throne speech - apparently insulting to Albertans for reasons that escape me.
Albertans seem to be perpetually angry for "reasons" as of late.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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Do like this image of the new Speaker being seated.
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  #332  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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Trudeau essentially was asked why he was late. He said it was due to an unannounced impromptu press conference. His aides apparently did not know about it, in full, either. Trudeau smiled as he told other leaders.

Again, most newspapers are reporting this in severe language without justifying it. Because the words and actions were mundane. It is the coverage of them which might have upset Trump, which sounds really difficult to do.

Without rereading the articles, they use expressions similar to “massive gaffe”, “remarkably undiplomatic language”, “incredible immaturity”, “inappropriate insults”, “smirking”, etc. And most of it is out to lunch. I mean, Macron has called NATO “brain dead” and explained why at length in The Economist.

Not one journalist I saw felt obliged to point out the actual words, defend Mr. Trudeau’s comments as benign, chiefly blame the US for again overreacting and making inflammatory remarks, or try hard to establish realistic context. Yes, the comments expressed mild frustration. Trump’s own aides and ex- staff have been a little blunter.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:35 AM
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Just as reputation is not character (John McCain), Trump is not American foreign policy nor represents the average public servant. No need to be dramatic, though Canada has long needed to increase the military role and its funding.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:09 PM
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Despite our steel industry being a security risk to Trumpdonia.

Best to dismiss the bad fart wafting through the room, carry on with our Can/US relations, and work on closer economic ties with the EU -- 'cause the USA is turning into a not-so-stable shithole than cannot be relied upon.
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  #335  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:07 PM
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Well, it turns out that in the last jobs report the U.S created 266,000 jobs, while Canada lost 71,000 jobs, with 10% of the population. Worst job losses since 2008, following on a series of other poor job reports. Canada's unemployment rate is now 2.4% higher than the U.S.'s.

Alberta lost another 18,000 jobs last month, So did BC. Calgary and Edmonton now have the highest unemployment of any cities in Canada outside of the Maritimes with their seasonal fishing industries.

And Alberta just got a new federal carbon tax, so expect the numbers to get worse.

This is what people complained about in the throne speech. He spent his time talking a out climate change and other social issues, and didn't once acknowledge the economic free-fall that's going on.

And the truth is that Trudeau needs the Bloc and the NDP to keep him in power, and he is ideologically aligned with both of them. So expect the interests of the west and of conservatives in general to be completely ignored, in favor of keeping a socialist party and a Quebec-only party happy.

This is one of the big problems with parliamentary politics. A left-wing government loses its majority due to the strong showing of Conservatives, and the result is a coalition that pushes the government even further to the left.

Hard times are coming for Canada. Our debt is exploding at every level, taxes are going up, social costs are rising rapidly due to unemployment and mass immigration, energy insanity prevails (massive buildup of solar power in a northern country is insane), and we are an oil-exporting nation whose leadership is deeply hostile to oil.

Our economy is failing even while the global economy is roaring along. When the inevitable global slowdown hits, we are going to be in a world of trouble.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:06 PM
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Our economy is failing even while the global economy is roaring along. When the inevitable global slowdown hits, we are going to be in a world of trouble.
AKA: "We are all going to hell in a handbasket, and it's all 100% Trudeau's fault."

Thank you for your analysis from the corporate oil patch. I guess the only thing that will save us now is increased subsidies for the oil industry.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:45 PM
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Well, it turns out that in the last jobs report the U.S created 266,000 jobs, while Canada lost 71,000 jobs, with 10% of the population. Worst job losses since 2008, following on a series of other poor job reports. Canada's unemployment rate is now 2.4% higher than the U.S.'s.

Alberta lost another 18,000 jobs last month, So did BC. Calgary and Edmonton now have the highest unemployment of any cities in Canada outside of the Maritimes with their seasonal fishing industries.

And Alberta just got a new federal carbon tax, so expect the numbers to get worse.

This is what people complained about in the throne speech. He spent his time talking a out climate change and other social issues, and didn't once acknowledge the economic free-fall that's going on.

And the truth is that Trudeau needs the Bloc and the NDP to keep him in power, and he is ideologically aligned with both of them. So expect the interests of the west and of conservatives in general to be completely ignored, in favor of keeping a socialist party and a Quebec-only party happy.

This is one of the big problems with parliamentary politics. A left-wing government loses its majority due to the strong showing of Conservatives, and the result is a coalition that pushes the government even further to the left.

Hard times are coming for Canada. Our debt is exploding at every level, taxes are going up, social costs are rising rapidly due to unemployment and mass immigration, energy insanity prevails (massive buildup of solar power in a northern country is insane), and we are an oil-exporting nation whose leadership is deeply hostile to oil.

Our economy is failing even while the global economy is roaring along. When the inevitable global slowdown hits, we are going to be in a world of trouble.
Well that's...something I guess. I mean the cruelty on display here is astounding! Quebec lost 45,000 job (vs. 36,000 in AB/BC) and you say nothing! Not a tear, or a heaved sigh.

Anyway I went looking for a rabidly enthusiastic post based on May 2019's 105,600 job creation numbers but it's eluding me. I might have missed it.

Then I went looking for something related to Canada's job participation rate (65%) vs the American's (62%) but again I came up empty. I'd keep going but it's boring.

But come on Sam Stone "This is one of the big problems with parliamentary politics. A left-wing government loses its majority due to the strong showing of Conservatives, and the result is a coalition that pushes the government even further to the left." I mean this is a laughable statement. 66% of Canadians support polices to my left and gosh darn it, it's unfair that those polices get support in government. I suppose a party that can't even defeat the Trudeau Liberals given all their baggage might turn to delegitimatizing other policy positions but it seems a poor path to follow.
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  #338  
Old 12-07-2019, 02:47 PM
DWMarch is offline
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Husky laid off hundreds of workers because a massive tax cut and 248 million dollars in three months isn't good enough.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...rgy-in-calgary
  #339  
Old 12-07-2019, 05:19 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWMarch View Post
Husky laid off hundreds of workers because a massive tax cut and 248 million dollars in three months isn't good enough.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...rgy-in-calgary
Gentlemen. How do we fix this company? We messed up a $2.75-billion hostile takeover of MEG Energy Corp. I mean we totally screwed this deal. What can we do to fix this colossal screw up?"

I know! Let's lay off hundreds of employees, all on one day! We'll save a bunch of money and blame it on Trudeau! They'll get fired, and still hate the federal government!

Brilliant idea! Give ourselves a bonus too!
  #340  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:17 PM
Northern Piper is online now
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Well, he was at the cool kids’ table on SNL, so it’s not all bad news.
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