Straight Dope Message Board

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

On the first hand, how can responder count 13 tricks? He doesn't know that partner has the jack of hearts, does he? True, for this to be a problem the defenders would need to have a lucky 4/0 split in hearts, so it might be a good gamble anyway, or am I missing something?

A 4-0 split doesn't matter as long as the Ace, King, and Queen are in different hands and you have the Ten in the right hand. You play the Ace or King from whichever hand has two of the top three honours, find out the bad news, and then take the marked finesse of the Jack. 101

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Finagle

(did your partner really have six hearts or just 5?)

Well, to tell you the truth in all the excitement the OP kinda lost track. 102

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Quartz

A 4-0 split doesn't matter as long as the Ace, King, and Queen are in different hands and you have the Ten in the right hand. You play the Ace or King from whichever hand has two of the top three honours, find out the bad news, and then take the marked finesse of the Jack.

Because it was AKx versus Qxxxxx, you need both the 10 and 9 if the J8xx is sitting under the AKx.

Another point that makes the grand even better - opener could have 7 hearts. Then the jack does not matter at all. 103

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by amarone

Because it was AKx versus Qxxxxx, you need both the 10 and 9 if the J8xx is sitting under the AKx.

If it were AKT there's no problem if RHO holds Jxxx. Play the Ace, cross to dummy via a side-suit or ruff, play low, then cover in hand and pull the remaining trumps. If LHO has Jxxx you need the Ten in dummy: play the Ace, then King, then the third trump, cover with Ten or Queen as appropriate, then play the Ten or Queen.

Another point that makes the grand even better - opener could have 7 hearts. Then the jack does not matter at all.

Very true.

Operating at this rarified level, it seems to me that a big problem can be entries into the hand with the long suit, so how do you best choose between 7 of a suit (where you can ruff) and 7NT?. 104

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Quartz

Operating at this rarified level, it seems to me that a big problem can be entries into the hand with the long suit, so how do you best choose between 7 of a suit (where you can ruff) and 7NT?.

Some possibilities can be calculated. Given that it was not AKT, then we are talking about a very small percentage of cases where there is Jxxx sitting under it and you can pick it up. Jxxx onside is 3.84% but that is only 3.84% of the time that partner does not have the jack. Partner will have the jack approximately 56% of the time. So Jxxx onside is 3.64 x 44% = 1.6% And you also need partner to have the 10 and 9, which I make to be 36% of the time. 1.6% x 36% = 0.58%

So, when deciding whether to bid 7H or 7NT, you are really not going to bid the lower-scoring contract because there is a 0.58% chance 7NT will go down.

And it is worse than that. If you play in 7H you might suffer a ruff at trick one. A 6-0 diamond break is 1.5%, so the hand with 6 will be on lead 0.75% of the time. 105

[Some Call Me... Tim]

This discussion of bidding conventions in slams reminded me of the best hand I've ever seen. At a tiny club game, 4 tables, one of my opponents was dealt this:

-
A
AKQJT9x
AKJT9

One possible loser in a diamond contract just in the hand alone, barring an opening ruff.

Partner doesn't have the spade ace. Three of the tables didn't have a way to determine the location of the club queen by bidding, so they guessed... one table went down in 7D and two (including our opponents) bid and made 6D.

The last table didn't have to guess, but did have to trust partner. The person dealt that made a strong forcing opening and lied to claim clubs was trump, then asked about the queen of trump by convention... and upon the negative response bid 6D. Partner, though quite confused, figured out it had to be natural and to play and passed. That table won the post-mortem. 106

[Quartz]

One of the advantages of Roman Keycard Blackwood. How did the bidding go on that? 2C - 2D - 3C - 3? - 4N - 5D - 5H - 6D - Pass, I guess. 107

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by Quartz

One of the advantages of Roman Keycard Blackwood. How did the bidding go on that? 2C - 2D - 3C - 3? - 4N - 5D - 5H - 6D - Pass, I guess.

Unless the bid you give as 3? was 4C, there is no agreed upon suit. In that case most partnerships I know would play that 4N is Keycard in the last bid suit (so whatever the ? was in 3?) and not in clubs.

ETA I suppose a jump bid of 4? (not clubs) might be taken as a splinter and agree to clubs as the suit. 108

[amarone]

Originally Posted by OldGuy

Unless the bid you give as 3? was 4C, there is no agreed upon suit. In that case most partnerships I know would play that 4N is Keycard in the last bid suit (so whatever the ? was in 3?) and not in clubs.

ETA I suppose a jump bid of 4? (not clubs) might be taken as a splinter and agree to clubs as the suit.

I agree that 3? needs to be 4C for 4NT to be RKCB for clubs. I would not even play it as RKCB for ? until that suit is agreed as trumps. Let us say ? = H. After 2C - 2D - 3C - 3H then with AQx Qx AK AKJxxx you would bid 3NT. But what would you bid if you were AKx Kx AK AKQxxx? Now you want to be making a slam try in NT. So I bid 4NT as natural, but stronger than 3NT.

I prefer to play Kickback to ask for key cards. That uses the suit above the trump suit as the ask, leaving 4NT available as natural. The main reason for Kickback, though, is that it avoids the issue of the response taking you past 5 of your suit.

The original hand is very difficult and "agreeing" clubs in order to use key card is a creative solution. One other possibility is that you can use a 6-level cue bid as asking for 3rd round control. I have seen experts use this approach. Hence something like 2C - 2D - 3D - 4D - 4NT - 5C - 6C would ask for 3rd round club control. 109

[Quartz]

Here's another one:

I held S:QJx D:AKQxxxx C:AKx - a void in Hearts - and opened 5D. Partner held SA and HA and doubleton diamond. RHO had the King of Spades, so I made 6. In the post mortem it was suggest that I open 2C and over partner's positive response use Blackwood as I could cope with all responses. Note this works for both 4NT and 5NT (ordinary, not RKCB). 110

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Quartz

Here's another one:

I held S:QJx D:AKQxxxx C:AKx - a void in Hearts - and opened 5D. Partner held SA and HA and doubleton diamond. RHO had the King of Spades, so I made 6. In the post mortem it was suggest that I open 2C and over partner's positive response use Blackwood as I could cope with all responses. Note this works for both 4NT and 5NT (ordinary, not RKCB).

It's a tough hand but if you open 2C and partner bids 2H, I don't see that bidding 4NT helps. Although I would not play that as Blackwood (or RKCB) let's assume it is. Partner now responds 5D showing one. What do you do? He could be AKx Kxxxxx xx xx and 7D makes, or xxx AKJxx Jx xxx and 5D is the limit.

But if partner gives a positive to 2C, there is no reason to rush to 4NT. You can bid 3D first. And 4D over partner's next bid. Something like 2C - 2H - 3D - 3H - 4D. Now with the first hand I gave partner should bid 4S, which must be a cue bid. Now you feel good about a slam. If he cannot cooperate over 4D, you probably give up in 5D.

Now my missed grand from today. I held void xx AKQJ9xx KQJx. Game all and RHO opened 1H. I bid an immediate 5D so they could not get their act together and establish a major suit fit. All passed and partner had AKxxx xx T Axxxx. 14 top tricks. Maybe he should have bid 6, given that I should have at least 9 tricks to bid 5D at that vulnerability and he has 3. But if he does he looks silly if they cash the first two heart tricks. 111

[Quartz]

Yes, I was abbreviating the bidding process somewhat. 112

[Quartz]

We had another interesting hand the other day. My partner held Sx HKJx DAKQJTxxx Cx. He opened 1D. I held SQJxx HATx D9 CAQxx and responded 1S. He rebid 3D and I bid 3N, which duly made. My partner doesn't know about the Gambling 3NT, so I'm thinking he should have opened 2C or 5D here. 113

[Dead Cat]

If he doesn't know about the gambling 3NT, he's hardly likely to open 2C with 14 points, in my view. Such a play could work, but could also get you into trouble if you assume he has way more points than he actually has. I think on balance he was right not to do that. On the other hand, the diamonds are too strong to open 5D (conventional wisdom says - I think). If a slam is available it will probably be missed with that opening bid.

My analysis is that the hand in itself should make 3NT pretty much without any help from partner whatsoever (unless the opposition can run off 5 tricks in the black suits before they get caught). So it's a gambling 3NT with a smaller element of gambling than usual (I think, though correct me if I'm wrong, that you can open 3NT with AKQJxxx and literally nothing else, on the basis you will make 7 tricks in your suit and partner will find the other 2 somehow). Again, that would make it hard to find the slam. I wonder if the sequence 1D - 1S - 4D would have alerted you to the unassailable strength of his diamond suit? It looks biddable as given your response, he knows you have a few points, goes past 3NT, but doesn't use up too much bidding space to find that slam (I assume 6D makes on either a finesse or squeeze in hearts, but I'm in way over my head here). I don't think you even need cue bidding to determine if you have the points in the right places, but really you want him to initiate Blackwood as he's the one who needs to know where your Aces are - and he has taken your best next bid of 4C. I guess you could try 4H, thinking of a cue bid for your AH, with little risk of him thinking you want to change the suit to H as otherwise you would have responded 1H initially. Although technically it shows 5-4 in S-H, that doesn't really matter on this deal. He then bids 4NT (Blackwood), you respond 5H, and now he knows that you have 2 out of the other 3 suits covered and can bid 6D (no point in asking for K as the lack of the fourth ace puts paid to the grand).

Critiques of the above please? Am I living in fantasy land? 114

[amarone]

Interesting hand.

I think it is too good to open 5D. You might miss slam and you have missed 3NT, which could be the best contract (and indeed is). I might open 5D if third in hand at favorable vulnerability to try keep them out of spades.

Most people play that a gambling 3NT denies a stop in any outside suit. I have seen some people play that it can have one stop, although that seems unplayable to me. Take away the AQ clubs from partner's hand and is s/he going to hope opener has a club stop and stand for 3NT?

You can open 1D and rebid 3NT over partner's 1S. This shows a long, usually solid, diamond suit. Of course, you are then gambling that partner has a club stop or the opponents do not lead them.

I believe that Quartz plays Acol. What type? Playing standard Acol I would be happy to open 2D. Playing Benji I could open 2C.

I am not too keen on opening 2C, especially playing standard Acol where 2C tends to be even stronger than in 2/1 or Standard American. My own personal guideline for opening 2C rather than one of the suit is: is game good opposite three trumps and a well-placed king? In this case, no. Even opposite an ace, 5D is not good. Hence the hand is most unlikely to get passed out when game is on. I would have more sympathy with opening 2C if the solid suit were hearts or spades. Then all I need from partner is the Q to fill in the KJx to make game pretty solid.

Off the wall option: open 1D and rebid 3C. Now when you bid 3NT you will probably have warded off the club lead. If partner raises clubs, keep bidding diamonds over him. 115

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

If he doesn't know about the gambling 3NT, he's hardly likely to open 2C with 14 points, in my view. Such a play could work, but could also get you into trouble if you assume he has way more points than he actually has. I think on balance he was right not to do that. On the other hand, the diamonds are too strong to open 5D (conventional wisdom says - I think). If a slam is available it will probably be missed with that opening bid.

I agree, as per my other post.

My analysis is that the hand in itself should make 3NT pretty much without any help from partner whatsoever (unless the opposition can run off 5 tricks in the black suits before they get caught). So it's a gambling 3NT with a smaller element of gambling than usual (I think, though correct me if I'm wrong, that you can open 3NT with AKQJxxx and literally nothing else, on the basis you will make 7 tricks in your suit and partner will find the other 2 somehow).

You can, although you hope partner will stop all the other three suits.

I wonder if the sequence 1D - 1S - 4D would have alerted you to the unassailable strength of his diamond suit?

It is common, at least in the US, to play this as showing 4-card trump support for partner and a very good diamond suit, e.g. KXXX X AQJTxx AK

I assume 6D makes on either a finesse or squeeze in hearts

Interesting play hand. I would look to play a spade so that thereafter only one opponent can guard spades. Play AC and ruff a club to see if the KC comes down. Then run lots of diamonds leaving KJX in hand and Q, AT, -, Q in dummy. I will have to throw one of those queens on the last diamond, probably QS. Now if the remaining queen is not good, attempt to cash three rounds of hearts. This makes when:

• KC was doubleton
• QH was doubleton
• KC and QH were in the same hand
• LHO has both AK spades and QH
• Opponents lead a heart
• Opponents discard incorrectly

That is better than 50%, so my statement in my previous post about 3NT being the best contract was wrong.

I don't think you even need cue bidding to determine if you have the points in the right places, but really you want him to initiate Blackwood as he's the one who needs to know where your Aces are - and he has taken your best next bid of 4C. I guess you could try 4H, thinking of a cue bid for your AH, with little risk of him thinking you want to change the suit to H

Assuming you are not playing the 4D bid to mean what I described earlier, then I agree that 4H is a cue bid, not a suit. 4D should say "diamonds are trumps" and is basically inviting partner to cue bid with values.

Although technically it shows 5-4 in S-H

I don't think it shows any particular length in hearts, just that you have a heart control.

He then bids 4NT (Blackwood), you respond 5H, and now he knows that you have 2 out of the other 3 suits covered and can bid 6D (no point in asking for K as the lack of the fourth ace puts paid to the grand).

I agree. 116

[Quartz]

That's some excellent analysis, thank you. My Bridge partner may be a world-class Scrabble player, but he's pretty new to Bridge. We play basic Acol, BTW. 117

[Dead Cat]

Originally Posted by amarone

I believe that Quartz plays Acol. What type? Playing standard Acol I would be happy to open 2D. Playing Benji I could open 2C.

I play standard Acol and I had completely forgotten about strong 2 bids, which I do like but most people seem to prefer weak 2s. I think you're right that this is a good hand to bid a strong 2D.

I am not too keen on opening 2C, especially playing standard Acol where 2C tends to be even stronger than in 2/1 or Standard American. My own personal guideline for opening 2C rather than one of the suit is: is game good opposite three trumps and a well-placed king? In this case, no. Even opposite an ace, 5D is not good. Hence the hand is most unlikely to get passed out when game is on. I would have more sympathy with opening 2C if the solid suit were hearts or spades. Then all I need from partner is the Q to fill in the KJx to make game pretty solid.

I don't quite follow what you're saying here - do you mean 5D is not a good contract on this hand if partner can't offer any outside support (which it turns out they can, in this particular example)? Of course, if you open 2C with 14 points it's much more likely client can support than if you do so with 24 points!

Off the wall option: open 1D and rebid 3C. Now when you bid 3NT you will probably have warded off the club lead. If partner raises clubs, keep bidding diamonds over him.

I suspect options like this lead to more heavy losses than great victories - certainly at my level, perhaps not at yours! By which I mean bids trying to stop the opponents making a certain lead can often confuse partner more than the opponents and potentially lead to horrific contracts.

Originally Posted by amarone

It is common, at least in the US, to play this as showing 4-card trump support for partner and a very good diamond suit, e.g. KXXX X AQJTxx AK

Interesting to know, thanks. Like so many things, it's handy if you have partnership agreement beforehand!

Assuming you are not playing the 4D bid to mean what I described earlier, then I agree that 4H is a cue bid, not a suit. 4D should say "diamonds are trumps" and is basically inviting partner to cue bid with values.


I don't think it shows any particular length in hearts, just that you have a heart control.

I agree if using H as a cue bid, but at my level cue bids are not always understood. I think I have told this story before, but I once recall bidding the opponent's suit to 'force' my partner to bid again - guess what...

Quartz, did anyone bid and make 6D, or was 3NT (presumably +1 or 2) a decent score for you? I should point out that I doubt I could make 6D myself with this hand, I think my knowledge of how to bid far exceeds my knowledge of card play, and the former isn't that great to begin with! 118

[Quartz]

3NT made +1 for a top (430); everyone else was in 5D making 6 (420). 119

[Quartz]

BTW last night I played with someone whose only convention was 'One NT is strong', though I did introduce him to the take-out double, and we came top. 120

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

I don't quite follow what you're saying here - do you mean 5D is not a good contract on this hand if partner can't offer any outside support (which it turns out they can, in this particular example)?

Yes. Even with points but in the wrong places, 5D can be poor.

I suspect options like this lead to more heavy losses than great victories - certainly at my level, perhaps not at yours! By which I mean bids trying to stop the opponents making a certain lead can often confuse partner more than the opponents and potentially lead to horrific contracts.

True, but that is why it is best to have a way out. In this case, you can always outbid partner in diamonds if s/he keeps bidding clubs. Note that 3C does not have to show a genuine suit, so that should help partner not get too excited. If you open 1D and have a hand that us too strong to rebid 3D (because that is non-forcing), you may manufacture a 3C bid to get the game force established. Say you hold x KJx AKQxxx AQx. You open 1D and partner bids 1H. Now what? You are too strong to bid 3D, plus partner might pass when 4H is good (xxxx AQxxx xx xx). You cannot bid 3NT with a singleton spade. The solution is to bid 3C. If partner bids 3D, you can bid 3H to show your 3-card support and, by implication, short spades.

I agree if using H as a cue bid, but at my level cue bids are not always understood. I think I have told this story before, but I once recall bidding the opponent's suit to 'force' my partner to bid again - guess what...

I once cue bid 4D, which got doubled. Partner passed it back to me and I redoubled to show that I had first round control (our cue bids only show first or second round control). I had a void. Partner passed! RHO then bid something to save us playing 4D redoubled on a 4-0 fit. 121

[Biotop]

My fun hand from this week:

I held as dealer South: (None vulnerable)

S: A T 4 3
H: A 8 7
D: A 9 6 2
C: 8 6

The Bidding:

S: (me) 1D
W: 1S
N: 2D (strong, 10 or more points, at least 4 diamonds, no 4 card+ heart suit)
E: P
S: 3D (I could have bid 2 no trump, but I wanted to show a weak hand with at least 4 diamonds. I could have had as few as 3 for my opening bid)
W: P
N: 4NT! (Traditional Blackwood)
E: P
S: 5S
W: P
N: 6D

All pass.

Partner lays down this:

S: K 8
H: K 6
D: K Q J 8 7 4 3
C: Q 9

Fortunately I do not get a club lead. West opts for her singleton Diamond 10. All play around to my Ace. Now what? 122

[OldGuy]

Drop a club into your lap. Show your hand and announce I'll give you a club trick. I cover the other board losers with my two aces and a rough and hoped they don't count your cards. :-)

Or if you want a legitimate play. The only thing I see that might work is to draw trump, cash your winners, trump a H and a S, then with your last spade throw LHO in and hope he has to give you a rough-slough having decided the only thing he had to protect was his QJ of spades so he tossed any clubs he had. 123

[merrick]

Without a defensive blunder, the only chance is to play SK, SA and ruff a spade, hoping SQJ drop in three rounds.
This is likely not to happen, and you can raise the chances of a defensive blunder with a pseudo-squeeze. Run 6 rounds of trumps before touching the side-suits, hoping that the defender with 4 spades also has honours in hearts and clubs and guesses the wrong suit to keep. Then, SK, SA, spade ruff with dummy's last trump, cash HK and get back to your spade winner with HA.

All in all, a great example of the risks of Blackwood. 124

[amarone]

I can see a way to make this without a defensive error, on a hand consistent with the bidding and lead. However, it's very unlikely I would find it at the table. In real life I would bang out 6 rounds of diamonds and put some pressure on LHO. LHO probably has something in every suit (hence the safe trump lead) and does not have both A and KC as then would have led one. The most likely error is LHO coming down to just three spades, in which case KS, AS, ruff establishes the 10.

It is tempting to throw a club towards the queen. If LHO wins with KC, they know you are missing an ace but have to guess which one. If they guess wrong (surely you would not be mad enough to play clubs missing AK?) you now have some squeeze prospects.

The problem is that the bidding has been very illuminating. They know you have three aces and a minimum, therefore nothing else of note. If you play a club and LHO wins AC, they know you do not have KC and can play another club to partner.

Now here is the legitimate line. You need LHO to have: 5+ spades (a given); 3+ hearts including at least three of QJT9; KJT or AJT of clubs (and can have other small clubs).

You play out 6 rounds of diamonds coming down to:

                    K8
                    K6
                    2
QJxx                Q9            x
QJ                                9xx
-                                 -
AJ                  AT43          Kxx
                    A87
                    -
                    -

Note that West has yet to discard.

If W discards a spade, you play KS, AS, ruff a spade to establish the 10.
If W discards a heart, you cash KH and finesse East for the 9H.
If W discards JC, you exit with a club, throwing a spade from hand. You can now squeeze East in hearts and clubs.
If W discards AC, you play QC, establishing the 9.

Incidentally, I don't like the Blackwood bid. You have shown a minimum hand yet your partner is playing you to have three aces, plus you also need either QH, or KC to get rid of his club loser. That gives you at least 14 points, which you will not have after the 3D bid. And what was he going to do if you responded 5H, so you are missing 2 aces? I suppose he could bid 5S and hope you bid 5NT, losing just the first 6 club tricks. 125

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by amarone

I can see a way to make this without a defensive error, on a hand consistent with the bidding and lead. However, it's very unlikely I would find it at the table. In real life I would bang out 6 rounds of diamonds and put some pressure on LHO. LHO probably has something in every suit (hence the safe trump lead) and does not have both A and KC as then would have led one. The most likely error is LHO coming down to just three spades, in which case KS, AS, ruff establishes the 10.

It is tempting to throw a club towards the queen. If LHO wins with KC, they know you are missing an ace but have to guess which one. If they guess wrong (surely you would not be mad enough to play clubs missing AK?) you now have some squeeze prospects.

The problem is that the bidding has been very illuminating. They know you have three aces and a minimum, therefore nothing else of note. If you play a club and LHO wins AC, they know you do not have KC and can play another club to partner.

Now here is the legitimate line. You need LHO to have: 5+ spades (a given); 3+ hearts including at least three of QJT9; KJT or AJT of clubs (and can have other small clubs).

You play out 6 rounds of diamonds coming down to:

                    K8
                    K6
                    2
QJxx                Q9            x
QJ                                9xx
-                                 -
AJ                  AT43          Kxx
                    A87
                    -
                    -

Note that West has yet to discard.

If W discards a spade, you play KS, AS, ruff a spade to establish the 10.
If W discards a heart, you cash KH and finesse East for the 9H.
If W discards JC, you exit with a club, throwing a spade from hand. You can now squeeze East in hearts and clubs.
If W discards AC, you play QC, establishing the 9.

Incidentally, I don't like the Blackwood bid. You have shown a minimum hand yet your partner is playing you to have three aces, plus you also need either QH, or KC to get rid of his club loser. That gives you at least 14 points, which you will not have after the 3D bid. And what was he going to do if you responded 5H, so you are missing 2 aces? I suppose he could bid 5S and hope you bid 5NT, losing just the first 6 club tricks.

Your read is exactly what happened, except West had the KJx of clubs, not the ace. I ran all the diamond but one, cashed the spade king and led a spade to my Ace of spades. West had been forced to guess, and had reduced her spade length to 3 before I touched the suit. When I ruffed the 3rd spade my ten was established. Contract made! 126

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Your read is exactly what happened, except West had the KJx of clubs, not the ace. I ran all the diamond but one, cashed the spade king and led a spade to my Ace of spades. West had been forced to guess, and had reduced her spade length to 3 before I touched the suit. When I ruffed the 3rd spade my ten was established. Contract made!

On perfect defense, with just KJx or AJx (i.e. without the 10), West can discard all the clubs and East will be left with AT over the Q9, so you cannot exit with a club as East will simply cash another club. 127

[Biotop]

Freak hand from the club today. (EW vul)

Sitting South as dealer, you pick up this:

♤: VOID
♡: J
♢: KQJT7532
♧: KQ85

THE BIDDING:

S: 5 ♢
W: 5 ♤
N: 6 ♢
E: 6 ♤

S: Now what? 128

[amarone]

Originally Posted by Biotop

Freak hand from the club today. (EW vul)

Sitting South as dealer, you pick up this:

♤: VOID
♡: J
♢: KQJT7532
♧: KQ85

THE BIDDING:

S: 5 ♢
W: 5 ♤
N: 6 ♢
E: 6 ♤

S: Now what?

I pass. I do not know whether partner was sacrificing or hoping to make, so I need to leave the final decision to him/her. 129

[Some Call Me... Tim]

Originally Posted by amarone

I pass. I do not know whether partner was sacrificing or hoping to make, so I need to leave the final decision to him/her.

I agree. Similar to bidding after an open of some number of no-trump, the hand that has described itself the least should be the one to make the tough decisions. 130

[Biotop]

I looked at the hand and could see at most one defensive trick. So I bid 7 diamonds. This is doubled by East.

××××××

West held:

♤: AKJT98643
♡: K962
♢: VOID
♧: VOID

Partner held:

♤: 7
♡: AT875
♢: 986
♧: JT74

And finally East:

♤: Q52
♡: Q43
♢: A4
♧: A9632

××××××

I lost the two minor suit aces for -300. Hurrah!
6 spades is cold, E-W. 131

[septimus]

My partner and I had a freakish hand come up today. I'll present it as a bidding problem.
Both vulnerable you deal and open 1 Spade with

♠ KQ87642
♡ A4
♢ AK54
♣ -

Your LHO overcalls 2 Diamonds; partner jumps to 4 Hearts; RHO passes.
What do you call? 132

[Biotop]

Originally Posted by septimus

My partner and I had a freakish hand come up today. I'll present it as a bidding problem.
Both vulnerable you deal and open 1 Spade with

♠ KQ87642
♡ A4
♢ AK54
♣ -

Your LHO overcalls 2 Diamonds; partner jumps to 4 Hearts; RHO passes.
What do you call?

I guess I pass. Partner went directly to game instead of a cue bid. My hand may not provide enough club ruffs, and my spades are only semi-solid. 133

[amarone]

Originally Posted by septimus

My partner and I had a freakish hand come up today. I'll present it as a bidding problem.
Both vulnerable you deal and open 1 Spade with

♠ KQ87642
♡ A4
♢ AK54
♣ -

Your LHO overcalls 2 Diamonds; partner jumps to 4 Hearts; RHO passes.
What do you call?

It depends on what 4H means. With most of my partners it means singleton or void heart, with at least 4 spades, in which case I can probably bid 7S as there are not enough points outside hearts and diamonds for him not to have AS.

I suspect that you play it to mean lots of hearts. He is unlikely to have much else as a) s/he should then start with 2H, which is forcing, and b) LHO must have something outside diamonds. Still, if partner has x KQJTxxxx x xxx slam is great unless they lead a trump. Even on a trump lead you are home if the hand with AS does not have another trump to lead - a reasonably likely prospect with only 3 hearts between them. The question is how to make a slam try. 4S is natural, 4NT gets an answer we cannot interpret because of the void club, 5C/D are possible. 5H would normally be asking partner to bid 6H with a diamond control. If you do not have that agreement, I bid 5H, otherwise I bid 5C. 134

[septimus]

Originally Posted by amarone

It depends on what 4H means. With most of my partners it means singleton or void heart, with at least 4 spades, in which case I can probably bid 7S as there are not enough points outside hearts and diamonds for him not to have AS.

I suspect that you play it to mean lots of hearts. ... 5H would normally be asking partner to bid 6H with a diamond control. If you do not have that agreement, I bid 5H, otherwise I bid 5C.

You play splinters even in competition like this? Is that common?

You haven't discussed it with partner but assume that 5H means "I have control of all side suits, bid 6H if you have good trumps."

Now the other problem. Forget that you've seen the North hand. Holding

♠ 5
♡ KT9876532
♢ 7
♣ 65

on the bidding

1S 2D 4H P
5H P ?

What call do you make? (In practice you get a Diamond lead and take 13 tricks.) 135

[Biotop]

I would probably still pass, but I commend you if you pushed to 6 hearts. 136

[amarone]

Originally Posted by septimus

You play splinters even in competition like this? Is that common?

On reflection, it is more common just to play a jump in opponents' suit as a splinter and the other suits as natural or a fit-jump.

You haven't discussed it with partner but assume that 5H means "I have control of all side suits, bid 6H if you have good trumps."

At the club where I play, people usually play it as:

• If opponents have bid a suit, I do not have control in that suit, else
• If we have bid three suits, I do not have control in the fourth, else
• Do you have good trumps?

Now the other problem. Forget that you've seen the North hand. Holding

♠ 5
♡ KT9876532
♢ 7
♣ 65

on the bidding

1S 2D 4H P
5H P ?

What call do you make? (In practice you get a Diamond lead and take 13 tricks.)

Tricky. When I suggested 5H I was wanting partner to bid on with something like the suit I suggested: KQJTxxxx. I suspect I would pass with the broken 9-card suit. If partner has a singleton, you don't want to be in slam, even if partner has all the other suits completely covered. Maybe I was wrong to suggest 5H. Partner would like a 5C cue bid, but I still don't see that hand bidding 6. Maybe the other hand is good enough to bid 6H over 4H. 137

[septimus]

I held the nine hearts and passed 5 Hearts with little thought, but now I wonder. What would I do with

* KQJxxxx
* KQJxxxxx
* KTxxxxxxx

?
Surely I'd have bid 6H with KQJ-eighth and presumably KQJ-seventh. But K-ninth is a better suit than either, especially since the extra trump might be essential as the 12th trick. I looked at my "broken suit" and passed, but how "broken" is it really with NINE cards?

Partner made a great 5 Heart call, maybe. Should I have said "Six Hearts"? 138

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by amarone

On reflection, it is more common just to play a jump in opponents' suit as a splinter and the other suits as natural or a fit-jump.

However 4H over 2D is a double jump not a jump. I'd certainly play it as a splinter. 3H would be a weak jump 139

[amarone]

Originally Posted by septimus

I held the nine hearts and passed 5 Hearts with little thought, but now I wonder. What would I do with

* KQJxxxx
* KQJxxxxx
* KTxxxxxxx

?
Surely I'd have bid 6H with KQJ-eighth and presumably KQJ-seventh. But K-ninth is a better suit than either,

Not opposite a singleton or void it isn't. Partner already knows you have good hearts from the 4H bid, so 5H is asking if you have very good hearts, which I take to mean will play for no more than one loser opposite a singleton or void.

I looked at my "broken suit" and passed, but how "broken" is it really with NINE cards?

Opposite a void, small singleton or jack singleton you will usually have two losers.

Partner made a great 5 Heart call, maybe. Should I have said "Six Hearts"?

I don't think so, for reasons already indicated. 140

[amarone]

Originally Posted by OldGuy

However 4H over 2D is a double jump not a jump. I'd certainly play it as a splinter. 3H would be a weak jump

A double-jump is still a jump. You wouldn't say "I opened 1NT and partner quadruple-jumped to 6NT", you would just say "jumped". I agree 3H is a weak jump.

While I think my regular partners would take it as a splinter, as per my original post on this hand, an Internet search suggests that this is not the most common meaning. For example (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by Larry Cohen

A jump above 3-of-opener's major is a Splinter Bid. This includes 1-3 and 1-4. Splinter bids are assumed to be approximately 12-15 points in support (and 4+ trump). Splinter Bids are not used in Competition. They are off after a double or an overcall. A jump to 4-of-the opponent's suit is still (always) a Splinter bid.

See https://www.larryco.com/bridge-learn...ter/detail/532 141

[Dead Cat]

Originally Posted by septimus

(In practice you get a Diamond lead and take 13 tricks.)

How do you avoid losing a trick to the Ace of Spades? 142

[Dead Cat]

On the original question, I like the idea of cue-bidding 5C to show first round control in clubs. It puts partner in a tricky spot, but if he can find the reply of 6D (to show second round control in diamonds - it's irrelevant to you but he doesn't know that), you can bid 6H knowing you only have a spade loser. If partner had replied 5S you can push on for the grand. Or is this all too optimistic? I usually play that a change of suit is always forcing, but presumably this is really only true up to game, and once game is bid that no longer applies? 143

[amarone]

Originally Posted by septimus

Holding

♠ 5
♡ KT9876532
♢ 7
♣ 65

Out of interest, what were the other hands? They have 11 good clubs yet never mentioned them. 144

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

How do you avoid losing a trick to the Ace of Spades?

Discard the losing spade on the second round of diamonds and take ruffing finesses. 145

[Dead Cat]

Of course, I see it now - thanks. 146

[septimus]

Originally Posted by amarone

Out of interest, what were the other hands? They have 11 good clubs yet never mentioned them.

West, in fourth chair, would have had to first introduce clubs at the five-level:

♠ J93
♥ J
♦ J9
♣ KJT8732

East, the 2D overcaller, held

♠ AT
♥ Q
♦ QT8632
♣ AQ94

The hand came up at PlayOK, not noted for expert-level bidding or cardplay. The 20 results, ordered by score, were

6HX=
6HX=
6H+1
6H=
4H+3
5H+2
5H+2
5H+2
4S+2
4H+2
4S+1
5H=
4S+1
4S=
5DX-2
5CX-2
4S-1
6H-1
6H-1
6S-3

(At the table where 5CX was played, the bidding started just like at ours, but West did bid 5C over 4H.)

How does 6H go down? At both tables where 6H failed, a diamond was led, declarer won and cashed the other high diamond but pitched a club instead of spade, and then led a spade honor to East's Ace. East returned a diamond; declarer didn't guess that he needed to ruff up with the Heart King.

Dopers: please come join us at PlayOK! The interface is much better (IMHO) then Bridgebase. PM me your PlayOK login-name if you do join! 147

[septimus]

Originally Posted by septimus

6HX=
6HX=
6H+1
6H=
...

Dopers: please come join us at PlayOK! The interface is much better (IMHO) then Bridgebase. PM me your PlayOK login-name if you do join!

I just looked at the auctions where North-South got to 6H. You will see why PlayOK may not be the place to pick up a new partner.

At one table the auction began like ours, but North bid 6H instead of 5H. This seems reasonable: North can count 12 easy tricks if South has eight good hearts.
At another table the auction started like ours, but North bid 4NT Blackwood. After Pass - 5C - Double - 5S- Pass, South bid 6H.
At another table, North opened 1C (presumably Precision or Polish) with his void and jumped to 6H immediately over South's 4H response.
At another table, North opened 4C (Gerber) with his void! North signed off in 4S when South showed no Aces. South then jumped to 6H when East doubled 4S. 148

[amarone]

Originally Posted by septimus

At another table the auction started like ours, but North bid 4NT Blackwood.

If you play that 4H shows long hearts and not much else (i.e. will not have AS or AC), that's not a bad idea as long as you play key-card. 149

[Quartz]

Here's one from the worldwide simultaneous pairs competition last night.

I held SAxxx HAKxxx DKx CAK. I decided to be bold and opened 2NT. Partner bid 3H - transfer to Spades - and having four card support and the Ace and useful doubletons, I jumped to 4S. Partner then used ordinary Blackwood to check for Aces and Kings, and we ended up in 7S. Partner held SKQJT9x Hx DATxx CJx. That got us a top at the club, but I rather suspect that better pairs will end up in 7NT. 150