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  #51  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:57 PM
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I'm a fan. Some episodes more than others of course and I agree with the idea of having to be in the right mental frame of mind for certain episodes.

What I like is the purity of its "what if" nature. It takes one idea and runs with it to see how the extremes play out. That takes us to dark places but plausible places and therein lies the horror. It also very cleverly balances the technology on the edge of what is currently possible and tempts us to take a little peek over the edge. They disturb and horrify us precisely because we see hints of it all around us and to an extent we are all the frogs being boiled and we may not realise until too late. I think they act as cautionary tales, modern fables.

Some of it is very intense and I fully understand why it isn't for everyone but for those who are a fan I might also recommend "Inside no.9" an anthology horror/suspense/comedy series by Reece Sheersmith and Steve Pemberton who you may know as writers and actors in "the League of Gentlemen"
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  #52  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:04 PM
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Watch USS Calister for a treat.
Came here to post that same episode. Coincidentally that's the the first ep I watched so you can imagine my surprise when every other ep is quite dark.
  #53  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:36 PM
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Came here to post that same episode. Coincidentally that's the the first ep I watched so you can imagine my surprise when every other ep is quite dark.
There's a couple other happy episodes, but they are overwhelmingly dark apart from that.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:03 PM
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I'm one of those people who didn't watch beyond the first episode. I'm surprised at people saying the pig-fucking episode 'made them think' - what about, exactly?
  #55  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:20 PM
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I thought the first episode was one of the best! I was hooked from the very first moment.

On the other hand, I didn't really like San Junipero. It seemed too sappy sweet for me. But I only saw it once and I kept expecting a twist.
  #56  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:24 PM
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I'm one of those people who didn't watch beyond the first episode. I'm surprised at people saying the pig-fucking episode 'made them think' - what about, exactly?
Hm. How about cravenness in public life and social media brought to an ad absurdum inhuman level.

I guess satire is not your bag?

What is it about pig fucking that presses buttons and ends intellectual curiosity in dopers? Maybe it has something to do with why it was ep #1.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:26 PM
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I'm a fan. Some episodes more than others of course and I agree with the idea of having to be in the right mental frame of mind for certain episodes.

What I like is the purity of its "what if" nature. It takes one idea and runs with it to see how the extremes play out. That takes us to dark places but plausible places and therein lies the horror. It also very cleverly balances the technology on the edge of what is currently possible and tempts us to take a little peek over the edge. They disturb and horrify us precisely because we see hints of it all around us and to an extent we are all the frogs being boiled and we may not realise until too late. I think they act as cautionary tales, modern fables.

Some of it is very intense and I fully understand why it isn't for everyone but for those who are a fan I might also recommend "Inside no.9" an anthology horror/suspense/comedy series by Reece Sheersmith and Steve Pemberton who you may know as writers and actors in "the League of Gentlemen"
I love the LOG! Thanks for the tip.
  #58  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:30 PM
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I'm one of those people who didn't watch beyond the first episode. I'm surprised at people saying the pig-fucking episode 'made them think' - what about, exactly?
Um, like if you have the choice between letting someone be murdered, possibly horribly, and fucking a pig on camera, thereby caving to the demands of a terrorist along with whatever baggage fucking a pig brings you--which do you choose? Kind of a no brainer for you? Not seeing just a little bit of hard choosing? And does it seem like a scenario that's too far-fetched for reality? The right answer is to never negotiate with or obey a blackmailer/terrorist, but would you be prepared to let you favorite politician allow the murder on that principle? Would you be able to let an innocent die if you had the power to stop it?
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:13 PM
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Um, like if you have the choice between letting someone be murdered, possibly horribly, and fucking a pig on camera, thereby caving to the demands of a terrorist along with whatever baggage fucking a pig brings you--which do you choose? Kind of a no brainer for you? Not seeing just a little bit of hard choosing? And does it seem like a scenario that's too far-fetched for reality? The right answer is to never negotiate with or obey a blackmailer/terrorist, but would you be prepared to let you favorite politician allow the murder on that principle? Would you be able to let an innocent die if you had the power to stop it?
And also-- would you watch? I think the people most at fault were the millions who tuned in to view. There were watch parties and bars stuffed with people all who just could not wait to watch the Prime Minister debase himself even though there was an active campaign to get the public NOT to watch. I think those are the people this episode shined its creepy-assed light on.
  #60  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:11 PM
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Hm. How about cravenness in public life and social media brought to an ad absurdum inhuman level.

I guess satire is not your bag?

What is it about pig fucking that presses buttons and ends intellectual curiosity in dopers? Maybe it has something to do with why it was ep #1.
No, it just bludgeoned over the head with its fucking "point." That's a lot why I'm not a huge fan of "Nosedive." Nice premise. Started out good. Then just wouldn't stop beating you over the head with its point. Just no subtlety. That's how I feel about a quarter of Black Mirror episodes, and those kind of bristle at me. The rest are great. (And, actually, Twilight Zone has those moments as well.)

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  #61  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:22 PM
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No, it just bludgeoned over the head with its fucking "point." That's a lot why I'm not a huge fan of "Nosedive." Nice premise. Started out good. Then just wouldn't stop beating you over the head with its point. Just no subtlety. That's how I feel about a quarter of Black Mirror episodes, and those kind of bristle at me. The rest are great. (And, actually, Twilight Zone has those moments as well.)
I enjoyed that one a lot. It seemed to hit all the good jokes in that scenario, and I wasn't actually sure I knew how it was going to end. It seemed good satire and not a cliche, having everyone rating each other constantly. I laughed out loud. Of course we have seen something of this type of episode before, but not in this reality. I haven't begun to be that critical of the show yet. I'm just glad that a show is covering this aspect of life. The last 3 years have seen reality far outpacing and outstripping any art we have, in terms of our social systems. To me this show is addressing the imbalance a little.

I do recall though on watching it that the brother character was the moral center of the show. If he wasn't in it, it might not have been possible to make it. And yet he is part of the system too, at a low 3.

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  #62  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:48 PM
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I enjoyed that one a lot. It seemed to hit all the good jokes in that scenario, and I wasn't actually sure I knew how it was going to end. It seemed good satire and not a cliche, having everyone rating each other constantly. I laughed out loud. Of course we have seen something of this type of episode before, but not in this reality. I haven't begun to be that critical of the show yet. I'm just glad that a show is covering this aspect of life. The last 3 years have seen reality far outpacing and outstripping any art we have, in terms of our social systems. To me this show is addressing the imbalance a little.

I do recall though on watching it that the brother character was the moral center of the show. If he wasn't in it, it might not have been possible to make it. And yet he is part of the system too, at a low 3.
Clearly that episode is really, really popular. And it works, because so many people respond to it. I didn't dislike it, but I thought it could have been done a bit better--for my tastes. And I admit, that's just my tastes. I kind of felt the same way with "Fifteen Million Merits." About halfway through I was like, yeah, yeah, I get the point, now what, and it just didn't seem to add anything fresh or cleverly subtle after it was clear what critique was established.

I mean, don't get me wrong--I still end up thinking about every episode after I see it, which is much more than I could say for most television I watch. And a portion of that time, the thought is about why the episode didn't quite do it for me, but it still makes me explore why I feel the way I feel about the episode, instead of just not giving a shit at all.
  #63  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:58 PM
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...here is the original planned ending for Jordan Peele's "Get Out."

(Spoilers-not spoilers, if that makes any sense, just don't watch if you haven't already seen the movie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3JS7_OcPWQ

And here is Jordan Peele on why he changed the ending.

http://collider.com/get-out-alternate-ending/

SPOILER:
In the beginning when I was first making this movie the idea was, ‘OK, we’re in this post-racial world, apparently. That was the whole idea. People were saying, ‘We’ve got Obama so racism is over, let’s not talk about it.’ That’s what the movie was meant to address. Like look, you recognize this interaction. These are all clues, if you don’t already know, that racism isn’t over. […] So the ending in that era was meant to say, look, ‘You think race isn’t an issue? Well at the end, we all know this is how this movie would end right here.’

...

It was very clear that the ending needed to transform into something that gives us a hero, that gives us an escape, gives us a positive feeling when we leave this movie. […] There’s nothing more satisfying than seeing the audience go crazy when Rod shows up.


Another series that evolved was The Leftovers. Damon Lindelof talks about how he was severely depressed while writing series one. Lindelof partly attributes the tonal shift in season two and three to being able to work though some of those issues.

Things change. Writers change. Mediums change. The world has changed. The Charlie Brooker that wrote the first episode of Black Mirror was in a very different place than the Charlie Brooker who wrote 'Me, You, and Ashley Too'. Early Black Mirror predicted a dystopian nightmare: many of us are now living in a dystopian nightmare.

I can't bring myself to watch early episodes of Black Mirror. But thats okay. I love how the series has evolved, but that doesn't mean there was anything wrong with how it all began. We can't expect the creators at the top-of-their-game to churn out the same thing over-and-over again. That just isn't how the creative process works. Unlike a series like "The Twilight Zone" where with "a writers' room and completed concepts, outlines", this is the work of a single writer, and we go where-ever he decides to go. And if that means we get an episode with Miley Cyrus starring as Miley Cyrus that turns into a cheesy heist episode of Hannah Montana then thats fine with me.
  #64  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:12 PM
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And also-- would you watch? I think the people most at fault were the millions who tuned in to view. There were watch parties and bars stuffed with people all who just could not wait to watch the Prime Minister debase himself even though there was an active campaign to get the public NOT to watch. I think those are the people this episode shined its creepy-assed light on.
99% of people would watch. I'm dead certain of it.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:26 PM
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I think I'd be one of those obnoxious people who wouldn't watch the pig fucking "on principle", but who would still read all the megathreads and live Twitter feeds devoted to the subject.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:51 PM
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I think I'd be one of those obnoxious people who wouldn't watch the pig fucking "on principle", but who would still read all the megathreads and live Twitter feeds devoted to the subject.
Me too. Only I wouldn't be the least bit interested in seeing a live rape in progress but see and hear the reaction, hell yeah. I don't watch the latest cops being racist videos either, don't need my heart broken over and over to get the message, but I sure read the threads.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:19 PM
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I don't think there could be a quicker high concept for a tv pilot that people would feel compelled to talk about to at least one other person: "Blackmailers want the PM to fuck a pig on TV and they are considering it" They would talk about it even if they never saw it. In a way we are the audience in the show.

I think that would be priceless for the Q.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:24 PM
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Clearly that episode is really, really popular. And it works, because so many people respond to it. I didn't dislike it, but I thought it could have been done a bit better--for my tastes. And I admit, that's just my tastes. I kind of felt the same way with "Fifteen Million Merits." About halfway through I was like, yeah, yeah, I get the point, now what, and it just didn't seem to add anything fresh or cleverly subtle after it was clear what critique was established.

I mean, don't get me wrong--I still end up thinking about every episode after I see it, which is much more than I could say for most television I watch. And a portion of that time, the thought is about why the episode didn't quite do it for me, but it still makes me explore why I feel the way I feel about the episode, instead of just not giving a shit at all.
Well that's why it's an anthology and not a series I guess. I just appreciate the high concept of the epi, and hope they do it well. I definitely don't feel I know how they are going to end, so if the ending is decent I'd say good.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:13 AM
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And also-- would you watch? I think the people most at fault were the millions who tuned in to view. There were watch parties and bars stuffed with people all who just could not wait to watch the Prime Minister debase himself even though there was an active campaign to get the public NOT to watch. I think those are the people this episode shined its creepy-assed light on.

Yes. That's the whole point of the episode IMO : the gawkers' reactions, and how sociopathic social media has made us. Like, if people were decent, if they had even a iota of empathy for the PM as a fellow human being, then the "artist" wouldn't have done it in the first place. His whole point was to shine a light on the depravity of the public, NOT of the act itself or even the moral dilemma handed to the PM. People have done worse to save lives, hell people have done and do worse to earn a paycheck.

Of course it's completely lost on the public, who mindlessly line up to jeer on another man's humiliation. This in stark contrast with the people close to the PM who have to "help" and all seem on the verge of breaking down just having to take part in it in any form - because they can't ignore or tune out the very real human element of it.



Then again, who am I to cast a stone ? I, who once watched a video of a woman getting her ladyparts filled with live eels because, well, it was there and I was bored. And it promised to be so profoundly fucked up, I couldn't not take a look. Like an accident on the freeway, except wriggling and gooey.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:13 PM
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OK, here’s me with a three day weekend, so I decide to try out Black Mirror, from critical acclaim and all that. The first episode is a Prime Minister being forced to fuck a pig because of a kidnapped princess. Totally unpleasant show. I know this show has many devotees. How does it go from this repulsive beginning to something someone would want to see?
I love the show, but when I recommend it to others I always advise them to not start with the first episode. Since it is an anthology, like Twilight Zone, it does not matter where you begin. Believe me, the critical accolades are well-deserved. Other posts have made great recommendations about where to begin if you decide to give it another chance.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:18 PM
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Watch USS Calister for a treat.
Absolutely essential for Star Trek fans.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:36 AM
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Wasn't there an actual prime minister in real life who fucked a pig back in his college days? I seem to remember that being on a John Oliver episode and then him calling back to it for several episodes.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:23 AM
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Hello.

I've been watching Black Mirror because I liked how they portrayed the severe effects of technology to the present society. Besides the effects of technology, there are also variations in the show where they showed how people around us influence the way we think and decide. It's a bit dark but I guess what they're trying to show are endless possibilities of what might happen if everything's too much.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:21 AM
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Hm. How about cravenness in public life and social media brought to an ad absurdum inhuman level.

I guess satire is not your bag?

What is it about pig fucking that presses buttons and ends intellectual curiosity in dopers? Maybe it has something to do with why it was ep #1.

For me it wasn't the pig-fucking, I think it was that when it comes to absurd stuff I come from a cultural background which made that whole episode primary-school level. Seriously. That whole thing could have been a year's end show in my primary school and the nuns wouldn't have batted an eyelash.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:40 AM
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For me it wasn't the pig-fucking, I think it was that when it comes to absurd stuff I come from a cultural background which made that whole episode primary-school level. Seriously. That whole thing could have been a year's end show in my primary school and the nuns wouldn't have batted an eyelash.
Wow, the primary schools and nuns where you grew up were way, WAY different from the ones where I grew up. Then again, I guess pig fucking permanently damages less children than all that pedophilia and babies-buried-in-the-convent-yard shit.
  #76  
Old 06-12-2019, 06:09 AM
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Wasn't there an actual prime minister in real life who fucked a pig back in his college days? I seem to remember that being on a John Oliver episode and then him calling back to it for several episodes.
David Cameron —the story is linked to in post 48.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:16 PM
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For me it wasn't the pig-fucking, I think it was that when it comes to absurd stuff I come from a cultural background which made that whole episode primary-school level. Seriously. That whole thing could have been a year's end show in my primary school and the nuns wouldn't have batted an eyelash.
I don't follow. It was too mild for parochial school? Are you attacking the episode from the left?
  #78  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:31 PM
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Black Mirror presents us with a disturbing parallel world where Trent Reznor doesn't exist but his music has been turned into aspirational dance pop Hanna Montana songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TutgbA_aAnk
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:40 PM
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OK, here’s me with a three day weekend, so I decide to try out Black Mirror, from critical acclaim and all that. The first episode is a Prime Minister being forced to fuck a pig because of a kidnapped princess. Totally unpleasant show. I know this show has many devotees. How does it go from this repulsive beginning to something someone would want to see?
The point is not the act of f****** a pig, it is the notion of what technology and social media have become - as all the episodes are. It is the questions it asks - real questions.

What would a leader do to keep his job?

What would a leader do to to save a life? Could he say no? Would you say no?

It doesn't have to be sex with a pig, but it has to be something repulsive, otherwise it doesn't work!

BTW: look up what a previous PM (Cameron did at university).

Otherwise, just stick to a safe film, like James Bond - it won't tax you, it won't ask any difficult questions.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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Otherwise, just stick to a safe film, like James Bond - it won't tax you, it won't ask any difficult questions.
Well that's pretty damn rude and presumptuous. Thankfully there were a lot of thoughtful answers to my post that were actually helpful, many of which tell friends to avoid the first episode. I will go back and try more episodes - hopefully my tiny little dull brain won't get hurt. Thanks for looking out for me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:09 PM
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Black Mirror presents us with a disturbing parallel world where Trent Reznor doesn't exist but his music has been turned into aspirational dance pop Hanna Montana songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TutgbA_aAnk
I thought it was a bit novel that they turned Head Like a Hole into a kicky pop song, though hearing it so many times during the episode did wear on me. The grunged up version at the end was pretty bad. At the end of the episode my wife critiqued it with a simple "That was terrible."
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:23 PM
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Yeah, I watched the first episode, hated it, and all it made me think was "why am I wasting time on this garbage when there's so much other garbage, some of which I might actually enjoy, I could be watching instead?" and never even thought of watching another episode. I think I decided to watch for the first time the entire (original) Twin Peaks series instead around then. Weird yes, but a more fun kind of weird.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:30 PM
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The point is not the act of f****** a pig, it is the notion of what technology and social media have become - as all the episodes are. It is the questions it asks - real questions.

What would a leader do to keep his job?

What would a leader do to to save a life? Could he say no? Would you say no?

It doesn't have to be sex with a pig, but it has to be something repulsive, otherwise it doesn't work!

BTW: look up what a previous PM (Cameron did at university).

Otherwise, just stick to a safe film, like James Bond - it won't tax you, it won't ask any difficult questions.
Agreed. And how the media was just wetting itself to be able to report it. That first episode made me want to watch all of the rest. Not because of the pig fucking, but because I knew that this show would hold nothing back and explore any topic.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:20 PM
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I like that it attempts to go places that other shows don’t. Definitely hit and miss, but overall I quite like the show.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:22 PM
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Watch USS Calister for a treat.


^^^^ this
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:00 AM
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Well that's pretty damn rude and presumptuous. Thankfully there were a lot of thoughtful answers to my post that were actually helpful, many of which tell friends to avoid the first episode. I will go back and try more episodes - hopefully my tiny little dull brain won't get hurt. Thanks for looking out for me.
And sort of amusing too given he can't type out the word fucking.

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Old 06-14-2019, 05:28 PM
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Agreed. And how the media was just wetting itself to be able to report it. That first episode made me want to watch all of the rest. Not because of the pig fucking, but because I knew that this show would hold nothing back and explore any topic.
Agreed. I get that people are squeamish, but I'm way more disturbed by the many episodes where fully sentient digital simulacra are endlessly tortured for extremely petty gain.

I thought the most recent season was refreshingly less oppressively dystopian than previous seasons. The episodes are still dark, but not "trapped in a digital hellscape for eternity" dark.

An episode that I liked a lot that I don't recall seeing mentioned here is Be Right Back from S2.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:59 PM
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Black Mirror in Medieval times.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:04 PM
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I’m in the minority in that I liked the pig fucking episode and none of the rest. I thought the first episode was funny, dark and pretty interesting, but every other episode was the same thing over and over.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:48 AM
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I just got done with the first 4 seasons.

I do wonder if it's mixing "futurism" and sadism too closely. It's so prominent in season 4 that I forget how much was in the prior ones. Digital hell is a great idea but doing it every week is a little much.

That being said I thought USS Callister was about he best sci fi I know of. I have never become a sci fi person, mainly because there weren't enough great flicks for me. I am never riveted to the screen anymore, it seems, but this one had me.

My least favorite would be the first one and the black museum. This last one seemed a little incoherent, and had a reprise of the digital hell theme too soon after the other ones. It's very clever anyway.
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