Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #15351  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:31 AM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
It doesn't have to be a cop. It could be any sort of right-wing cop-lover or black-hater.

I'm just guessing of course, but the execution-style nature of the murder makes many typical murder scenarios unlikely.
The story on MSN doesn't mention 'execution style'. It is actually a bit light on details of the shooting itself and more....well, bad journalism. You have a link to a different report?
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15352  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:48 AM
ASL v2.0's Avatar
ASL v2.0 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Various
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Look: If you're a thinker you understand the concept of a thought experiment.
I understand that people often misuse probability to refer to gut feelings with a smattering of self-selected, self-recalled, and potentially non-representative prior events, as if they can somehow throw down a number and a percentage sign and rate their gut feeling a "65% probability" as surely as one might say a coin toss with a fair coin with heads on one side and tails on the other has a 50% probability of coming up heads.

Except you canít do that. Real life is not a thought experiment, and people are lousy at assessing probability on the fly, even in just rough approximations.

So you cannot speak to probability. Or at least I try not to claim a degree of confidence in something as if it were a probability because I know that people like you and me have historically done poorly in accurately assessing risk and probability. For that reason, I refuse to take your bet. Not because I donít understand probability, but because neither you nor I have a basis on which to assign a probability.

The example I used in the MPSIMS thread where weíre discussing Joshua Brown's death is rolling a die. Your "bet" that youíre so upset I have refused to even engage in is akin to a bet where Iím offered a 20 to 1 payout if a fair die rolls a 5. You seem to assume that if I am a "thinker" or I "understand probability" I should take the bet and a refusal to do so makes me a fool. But the thing is, no one ever said it was a 6-sides die. We donít know what the probability of the hoped for event, rolling a 5, is. Even if it really is a fair die and I know that with the metaphysical certainty often demanded of a thought experiment. It could be 99-sided, one through ninety-nine, in which case thatís a shit payout. It could be 4-sided, number one through four, in which case Iím throwing my money away as a fool.

If you donít know how many sides are on the die, you canít just go with your gut and assign a probability of 1 in 6. A proper skeptic does not take that bet until they have all the relevant information, or at least until they have all the information theyíre going to get and they have no choice but to make that bet, although even then they might rightfully refuse to take it because all the information made available still isnít enough to justify it.
  #15353  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:04 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
I understand that people often misuse probability ...
There's no need to discuss probability theory here (though you might be surprised to know that 3 of my 30+ U.S. patents concern algorithms for probability estimation).

It is enough to contemplate the Thought Experiment I presented.

After the guy proves to you that he really is Bill Gates, what do you do? Are you going to refuse the chance at $200,000 altogether because you don't want to guess?
  #15354  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:16 AM
ASL v2.0's Avatar
ASL v2.0 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Various
Posts: 342
Did someone offer you $200,000 yesterday to throw your weight behind the murder being connected to the Guyger verdict with a 65% probability?

Just because youíve staked your reputation on a bad bet you didnít have to make doesnít mean I have to. I know you want me to answer, but Iíd much rather keep hounding you on that probability you threw down as the investigation progresses and you perhaps have a chance to walk it back as an unwarranted degree of confidence.
  #15355  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:32 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,799
It's a total guess. If it turns out wrong ... well, I already guessed a 35% chance that the guess is wrong. Is 35% humiliatingly unlikely??

What are we arguing about? You jumped on a poster suggesting the possibility of a connection, a connection I consider slightly odds-on favorite. Life is full of guesses. I guess Liz Warren is the D's best chance for the coming election. Should I refrain from voting in the primary because I'm uncertain?
  #15356  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:04 PM
Bam Boo Gut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,608

Man gets jail for missing jury duty


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=squiwgHSZ7s

Is this the normal penalty?
  #15357  
Old 10-07-2019, 08:32 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
I donít see that at all. And Occamís Razor doesnít suggest anything, though it is frequently misused by those who would like to suggest something without sufficient evidence to infer a connection where it is not yet warranted to do so.
Wait; what? No, it isn't.
  #15358  
Old 10-08-2019, 09:46 AM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
It doesn't have to be a cop. It could be any sort of right-wing cop-lover or black-hater.
And it could be something unrelated to the case.

Joshua Brown, the slain Amber Guyger trial witness, thought he was targeted in a 2018 shooting, attorney says


Quote:
Almost a year before he testified as a key witness in the Amber Guyger murder trial, Joshua Brown was wounded in a shooting at a Dallas strip club that left another man dead, police said.
Quote:
Citing an affidavit, the Dallas Morning News reported that a man had waited for Brown outside the club and the two fought. The man started shooting when Brown tried to leave, wounding his foot, the newspaper reported. Nicholas Shaq'uan Diggs, 26, was killed.
Which is more likely? That he was killed as reaction to his testifying, or that he was killed by someone who had tried to kill him before? Or killed for the same reason that someone else tried to kill him a year before?

I really can't see him being killed for testifying. For one thing, the testimony wasn't particularly damning. From what I have read, he testified to a series of events that very closely resemble Guyger's own account.
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15359  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:57 AM
MikeF is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,620
Killed in a drug deal gone bad. So much for probabilities.
  #15360  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:54 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 17,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
Killed in a drug deal gone bad. So much for probabilities.
Yeah, because three guys drove five hours from Louisiana to Texas to buy marijuana. And the Guyger defense never thought that it was important to mention the guy's alleged past drug dealings.
  #15361  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:17 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Yeah, because three guys drove five hours from Louisiana to Texas to buy marijuana. And the Guyger defense never thought that it was important to mention the guy's alleged past drug dealings.
The problem with conspiracy theories is, you need evidence to give 'em legs.
  #15362  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:40 PM
Muffin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great White North
Posts: 20,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
The problem with conspiracy theories is, you need evidence to give 'em legs.
The problem with conspiracy theories is that you do not need evidence to give them legs.
__________________
Hour after hour, day after day, we paddled and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, wanting never to return.
  #15363  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:37 AM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
Former Georgia police chief, family indicted in citation extortion scheme

Quote:
A former police chief, court clerk, and an officer - all family - have been indicted in an alleged scheme to extort several people, threatening severe charges and jail time if victims didn't comply.
Article states they were doing it 8 years.
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15364  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:01 AM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,057
I'm sure they were the only bad apples, and that absolutely nobody else in the Police Department knew about it.
  #15365  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:24 PM
Fear Itself is offline
Cecil's Inner Circle
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Flavortown
Posts: 35,989
A white Fort Worth officer fatally shot a black woman inside her home early Saturday morning after police were called to the house to do a welfare check.
Quote:
Police said in the statement the officer, who joined the department in April 2018, saw a person standing inside the home near a window.

ďPerceiving a threat, the officer drew his duty weapon and fired one shot striking the person inside the residence,Ē the statement said. ďOfficers entered the residence locating the individual and a firearm and began providing emergency medical care.Ē

...

The East Allen Avenue shooting was the seventh time since June 1 that a Fort Worth police officer has shot a civilian. Six of those people died.
https://amp.star-telegram.com/news/l...mpression=true
  #15366  
Old 10-12-2019, 06:52 PM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 14,841
So, looking out of your window is now a threat to police.
  #15367  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:48 PM
TheMysteryWriter's Avatar
TheMysteryWriter is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 222
People really need to quit calling out hits, I mean welfare checks, on other people. Don't call the cops ever, for anything, unless you absolutely have to.
__________________
Cold showers lead to crack!
  #15368  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:42 PM
UCBearcats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 805
I was just getting ready to post the welfare check murder of a person in their own house.
  #15369  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:59 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
A white Fort Worth officer fatally shot a black woman inside her home early Saturday morning after police were called to the house to do a welfare check.

https://amp.star-telegram.com/news/l...mpression=true
Video here, including body cam footage.

This shooting was a lot of bullshit. The officer was fucking prowling outside with a flashlight, saw someone in a window and shot them. There was no time for the person inside to react to the officer's "command" if it could even be heard throughout the walls and window.

The mention of the gun found inside is likewise bullshit; it's meant to smear the dead woman is all.
  #15370  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:28 AM
monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,742
The second amendment only applies to white people.

If you're a black person, possessing a gun in your own home makes you deserving of the death penalty.

I predict that nothing is going to happen to this police officer.
  #15371  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:17 AM
UCBearcats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 805
I just watched that video and it sickens me to think that it can happen.
  #15372  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:23 AM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
If I saw someone prowling outside multiple sides of my house with a flashlight at night, I'd be worried and might arm myself too.

Remember when Dick Tench of Greenville, SC was shot by a cop in similar circumstances?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ideo-came-out/
  #15373  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:04 AM
ticker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBearcats View Post
I just watched that video and it sickens me to think that it can happen.
The short clip with the victim's sister was heartbreaking.
  #15374  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:16 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
If I saw someone prowling outside multiple sides of my house with a flashlight at night, I'd be worried and might arm myself too.

Remember when Dick Tench of Greenville, SC was shot by a cop in similar circumstances?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ideo-came-out/
Do we even know at this point if she was armed, or just at the window? Not that it should make a lick of difference, as she was in her own fucking house while unknown people were prowling around it, but I haven't seen a definitive answer to that yet.
  #15375  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:42 PM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Video here, including body cam footage.

This shooting was a lot of bullshit. The officer was fucking prowling outside with a flashlight, saw someone in a window and shot them. There was no time for the person inside to react to the officer's "command" if it could even be heard throughout the walls and window.

The mention of the gun found inside is likewise bullshit; it's meant to smear the dead woman is all.
I know from personal experience that by and large, Fort Worth cops, and Texas cops in general are Not Worth A Flying Fuck. They never were.
  #15376  
Old 10-13-2019, 03:54 PM
Skypist's Avatar
Skypist is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 458
This is so sad. I suppose the police officer will be "exonerated."
  #15377  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:00 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Do we even know at this point if she was armed, or just at the window? Not that it should make a lick of difference, as she was in her own fucking house while unknown people were prowling around it, but I haven't seen a definitive answer to that yet.
No, we do not. IMO it is significant that the police said "a gun was found in the home" not "a gun was found near the deceased"; they are trying to poison the well.
  #15378  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:48 PM
Isosleepy's Avatar
Isosleepy is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Do we even know at this point if she was armed, or just at the window? Not that it should make a lick of difference, as she was in her own fucking house while unknown people were prowling around it, but I haven't seen a definitive answer to that yet.
Youíre right, it doesnít matter. Even if she was standing there with her 45 ACP model 1911 in condition 0, the cop should not shoot her. In her own house. Through the window. And of course she wasnít.
  #15379  
Old 10-13-2019, 08:16 PM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 12,178
I can't see how the killing of Atatiana Jefferson is anything other than an appalling, unjust, and criminal act. OK, so it was the wee hours of the morning, and the door was open. (It looks like a screen door was closed, but the main door was open.) So, maybe, the cops swinging by to make sure everything is OK is warranted--the next door neighbor (who is now racked with guilt) did apparently think so.

But what the fuck is all this sneaking around, shining flashlights and peering through windows, then just shooting the first person you see? How about, I dunno, knocking on the door: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK "Fort Worth Police Department!...Oh, hello, ma'am, we're just responding to a call from your neighbor who noticed the lights are on and your door is open and was a little concerned. Everything OK here? Just playing video games with your nephew? Sounds like fun! Sorry if we disturbed you, have a nice night."

As several people have already pointed out, even if the poor woman was actually armed at the time she was shot, the cops didn't identify themselves, didn't (apparently) pull up with flashing blue lights--just, two dudes fucking skulking around outside a house in the wee hours of the morning, shining their flashlights and peering through the windows of a home containing a twenty-something woman and her eight-year-old nephew. In Texas! She damned well would have been perfectly within her rights to be armed in response to that sort of nonsense (and, again, there's no real evidence that she actually was holding any sort of weapon when she was just senselessly killed).

I can't see any way how the fucking shooter shouldn't go to prison.
__________________
"In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves." -- Carl Sagan

Ceterum censeo imperium Trumpi esse delendam
  #15380  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:26 AM
DesertDog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mesa, Ariz.
Posts: 5,797
Even if she had been standing in her home, weapon in hand, she would have been within her rights. Texas has a limited castle doctrine.*

*Not valid if you're colored.
  #15381  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:05 AM
monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,742
The NRA should screaming right now. But I have heard a peep out of them. I don't expect we will hear anything out of them.
  #15382  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:54 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveG1 View Post
I know from personal experience that by and large, Fort Worth cops, and Texas cops in general are Not Worth A Flying Fuck. They never were.
Unfortunately, they seem to be worth a life.

I just keep wracking my head -- what the fuck was wrong with those officers? How do you shoot to resident on a WELFARE CALL before you even ring the doorbell?

She should go to prison, of course. But there's something grossly wrong with the department and whatever training they do. The whole damn department should be disarmed until major changes are made.
  #15383  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:04 AM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstro View Post
..
If you're a black person, possessing a gun in your own home makes you deserving of the death penalty.
...
Even long before the police even go inside to find that there's a gun in there. Disgusting that this happens in my country.
  #15384  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:04 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,855
I think that anytime something like this happens, it shouldn't be just the officer involved who gets cited; the captains who train them and the police chief should be held accountable in some way. Obviously, we can't prosecute them criminally for offenses committed by other people, but we should have a way to demote and even terminate their employment. Otherwise there's no systemic accountability. Individual accountability without systemic accountability means the machine replaces a part here and a part there, but it's the system in toto that is fucked.
  #15385  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:07 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
Unfortunately, they seem to be worth a life.

I just keep wracking my head -- what the fuck was wrong with those officers? How do you shoot to resident on a WELFARE CALL before you even ring the doorbell?

She should go to prison, of course. But there's something grossly wrong with the department and whatever training they do. The whole damn department should be disarmed until major changes are made.
It's an institutionalized mentality that assumes that anyone an officer encounters on the street - you, me, or your neighbor - is a potential danger and that officers should be ready to shoot first and determine the facts later. Err on the side of death -- someone else's death.
  #15386  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:10 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I think that anytime something like this happens, it shouldn't be just the officer involved who gets cited; the captains who train them and the police chief should be held accountable in some way. Obviously, we can't prosecute them criminally for offenses committed by other people, but we should have a way to demote and even terminate their employment. Otherwise there's no systemic accountability. Individual accountability without systemic accountability means the machine replaces a part here and a part there, but it's the system in toto that is fucked.
Ideally, that should not be necessary. Ideally, in a situation like this, the commanders and captains et al would review their training, identify the problem, and fix it themselves.

As this does not seem to happen in the wake of unjustified shootings like this, a complete house cleaning of all upper personnel is in order.
  #15387  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:12 AM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
I hate that they say 'the officer perceived a threat'. They should say 'the officer imagined a threat'.
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15388  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:18 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner View Post
I can't see how the killing of Atatiana Jefferson is anything other than an appalling, unjust, and criminal act. OK, so it was the wee hours of the morning, and the door was open. (It looks like a screen door was closed, but the main door was open.) So, maybe, the cops swinging by to make sure everything is OK is warranted--the next door neighbor (who is now racked with guilt) did apparently think so.

But what the fuck is all this sneaking around, shining flashlights and peering through windows, then just shooting the first person you see? How about, I dunno, knocking on the door: KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK "Fort Worth Police Department!...Oh, hello, ma'am, we're just responding to a call from your neighbor who noticed the lights are on and your door is open and was a little concerned. Everything OK here? Just playing video games with your nephew? Sounds like fun! Sorry if we disturbed you, have a nice night."

As several people have already pointed out, even if the poor woman was actually armed at the time she was shot, the cops didn't identify themselves, didn't (apparently) pull up with flashing blue lights--just, two dudes fucking skulking around outside a house in the wee hours of the morning, shining their flashlights and peering through the windows of a home containing a twenty-something woman and her eight-year-old nephew. In Texas! She damned well would have been perfectly within her rights to be armed in response to that sort of nonsense (and, again, there's no real evidence that she actually was holding any sort of weapon when she was just senselessly killed).

I can't see any way how the fucking shooter shouldn't go to prison.
The problem also lies in how the situation was framed by the concerned neighbor and dispatcher. There's nothing wrong with being a concerned neighbor; it's officers' job to analyze the situation critically.

A neighbor reports an open door - okay, so what does that mean?

It could be a home invasion...or it could be that someone forgot to close the door. Or something in between. The officers - either because they were trained to approach in this manner or weren't trained enough to avoid approaching the situation in this manner - assumed that the situation was a dangerous.

This happens over and over again: officers trained to assume a suspicious situation is a potentially fatal encounter. There has to be pressure on the top brass to accept some level of responsibility and resign.
  #15389  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:43 AM
bordelond's Avatar
bordelond is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: La Rive Ouest
Posts: 10,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
It's an institutionalized mentality that assumes that anyone an officer encounters on the street - you, me, or your neighbor - is a potential danger and that officers should be ready to shoot first and determine the facts later. Err on the side of death -- someone else's death.
Often summed up as "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

And every cop can tell all the second-hand stories about the unassuming "other" that "magically" conjured a gun out of nowhere, even after a pat-down, and proceeded to kill one or more officers at the scene. And that is always seen, in every encounter, as something with a strong chance of happening. There are no flukes or human errors in these stories -- it's something any witness, perpetrator, jaywalker, bike-rider, bystander, shadow in a window, etc. can do to a cop at any given moment. For them, the world is ever-dangerous at all moments. There is no down-time or any safe circumstance. There's always a gun trained on them ... somewhere. They are certain of it. And scared, 100% of the time. And more if mathematics allowed for it.

How to change that animus as a central pillar of internal police culture? I wish I knew. I feel like if any and all police officers were wished to the cornfield right now ... their replacements would adopt complete and total "gun fear" within a few months. Policing, for better or worse, creates a fast and tenacious "us or them" mindset -- all of humanity is seen as not just flawed, but "bad". "Could be" is considered certainty. Risk is unacceptable. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."
  #15390  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:53 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 10,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
Often summed up as "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

And every cop can tell all the second-hand stories about the unassuming "other" that "magically" conjured a gun out of nowhere, even after a pat-down, and proceeded to kill one or more officers at the scene. And that is always seen, in every encounter, as something with a strong chance of happening. There are no flukes or human errors in these stories -- it's something any witness, perpetrator, jaywalker, bike-rider, bystander, shadow in a window, etc. can do to a cop at any given moment. For them, the world is ever-dangerous at all moments. There is no down-time or any safe circumstance. There's always a gun trained on them ... somewhere. They are certain of it. And scared, 100% of the time. And more if mathematics allowed for it.

How to change that animus as a central pillar of internal police culture? I wish I knew. I feel like if any and all police officers were wished to the cornfield right now ... their replacements would adopt complete and total "gun fear" within a few months. Policing, for better or worse, creates a fast and tenacious "us or them" mindset -- all of humanity is seen as not just flawed, but "bad". "Could be" is considered certainty. Risk is unacceptable. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."
One factor is the type of personnel that are attracted to the job in the first place. I would imagine that top law enforcement agencies at the federal level have resources for employment screening - they can probably be selective. They can also develop training programs and procedural systems. They probably still have a police culture like any law enforcement unit does, but it's a culture in which there is less reaction and more adherence to proper procedures.

It's probably a different story for many of the smaller law enforcement agencies that dot the map across the country. They're working on limited budgets and they're restricted to a small geographic region, which may not have a healthy pool of candidates to draw from.
  #15391  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:47 AM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
Quote:
In the video, he does not identify himself as an officer.
This is fucked up on so many levels.

So the doors were opened and the screen doors closed. This is a reason for a police visit???

They park around the corner? So that the people in the house can't see a police car?? Because they suspect what?? A home invasion? Because the have a report of an open door??????

The officers approach with stealth. On a welfare check call. They do not identify themselves as police officers. Because 'stealth mode'. They ONLY information they had is that a door was open. How is this possibly proper procedure?

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

The homeowner would have been better off shooting at the intruder on her porch.
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15392  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:55 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 16,160
"He has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation."

And yet another paid vacation for slaughtering a negro.
Disregard the constabulary.
__________________
Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.
  #15393  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:58 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skypist View Post
This is so sad. I suppose the police officer will be "exonerated."
Well, he did give her 1.5 seconds to obey his shouted command from where he was hiding in the darkness outside of her home. And he did say he was scared. So yes, I expect he'll get off.
  #15394  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:04 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,227
The should be more clear in police departments about procedures when folks call with concerns:

"Hello? I"m concerned - my neighbor's door is open and I think someone should check on her"

"OK mam, we'll head on over and immediately shoot anyone we see inside, OK?"

"Ummmm. No, that's OK, I'll go over myself and check on her, thanks. No, you cannot have the address. Bye"
  #15395  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:09 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 17,378
Fort Worth is in Tarrant County. Although the shooting was presumably by Fort Worth cops, Tarrant County's Sheriff is in the news because he attended an anti-immigration event at the White House, where he claimed many undocumented immigrants in his jail are repeat DUI offenders . The sheriff said, ” “These drunks will run over your children, and they will run over my children.” His stepson was arrested on a DUI the next day.
http://www.wbap.com/2019/10/14/tarra...cent-exposure/

By the way, Tarrant County is hundreds of miles from the border. It's like calling in somebody from Missouri to talk about being an expert on border immigrants.
  #15396  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:14 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMysteryWriter View Post
People really need to quit calling out hits, I mean welfare checks, on other people. Don't call the cops ever, for anything, unless you absolutely have to.
In 2017, a woman in Minnesota was murdered herself by the cops who showed up after she called to report a possible crime.
  #15397  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:34 PM
Typo Negative's Avatar
Typo Negative is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 7th Level of Hell, Ca
Posts: 17,928
Quote:
Officers responded at 2:25 a.m. to the house in the 1200 block of East Allen Avenue. James Smith, who called a non-emergency police number, said he saw the doors were open and the lights were on, which struck him as unusual
Why were they dispatched at 2:30 in the morning for a non-emergency? Why the everloving fuck didn't they knock on the door???? Why were they creeping around the back like thieves?

And for the love of GOD, why give a command and then fire before the person has a chance to comply?
__________________
"Just love everybody. I'll sort 'em out later"

-God
  #15398  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:35 PM
UCBearcats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 805
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/3973133002/

At least the Fort Worth shit stain resigned. Hopefully charges are next.
  #15399  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:41 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 16,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBearcats View Post
Hopefully charges are next.
Whoo...Thanks for that. I haven't laughed that hard since I was a little girl!
  #15400  
Old 10-14-2019, 03:33 PM
mistymage's Avatar
mistymage is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
You're not allowed to be Black in your own front yard:
https://www.comicsands.com/family-su...33ab68d22425b2
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017