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  #42401  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Greenjeans View Post
That Stupid Republican is a liar.
Coming from you, that's a pretty authoritative statement.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-09-2019 at 05:57 PM.
  #42402  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Greenjeans View Post
That Stupid Republican is a liar.
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
Coming from you, that's a pretty authoritative statement.
Maybe, but I'd still like to hear from Mr. Moose and Bunny Rabbit before accepting that assessment.
  #42403  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:22 PM
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[Moderating]
Please don't joke about killing the President of the United States on the boards.

No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
A firing squad ordered by an impeachment tribunal would not be just a 'killing', it would be a proper, legally sanctioned execution. Which we are allowed to tqalk about on the board. We have had many threads on capitl punishment.

No warning accepted.

Last edited by Tim@T-Bonham.net; 10-09-2019 at 07:24 PM.
  #42404  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim@T-Bonham.net View Post
A firing squad ordered by an impeachment tribunal would not be just a 'killing', it would be a proper, legally sanctioned execution. Which we are allowed to tqalk about on the board. We have had many threads on capitl punishment.

No warning accepted.

Nah. I don't think "an impeachment tribunal" is a thing in the first place, let alone having the authority under the law to order an execution. The constitution sets out what impeachment is and the consequence if the senate trial finds the president guilty: removal from office. You will not that it does not say "removal with extreme prejudice".

Nor do I think your acceptance or non-acceptance of a warning has any effect here either.
  #42405  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:42 PM
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A firing squad ordered by an impeachment tribunal would not be just a 'killing', it would be a proper, legally sanctioned execution. Which we are allowed to tqalk about on the board. We have had many threads on capitl punishment.

No warning accepted.
[Moderating]
You were instructed to drop this subject. If you feel that instruction was made in error, the proper place to discuss it is in ATMB.

This is a formal warning for failure to follow a moderator's instructions.
[/Moderating]
  #42406  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:12 PM
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Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/lin...oy-this-nation
  #42407  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:20 PM
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Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/lin...oy-this-nation
So he's asking the Senate - the body that sits in judgement - to pre-emptively judge the case before the investigation by the House has even started. Before any of the evidence has been collected, and in fact, while the Whitehouse is refusing to provide any of the requested evidence.

Okay then. As long as the American public buys this bullshit, they will continue to sell it.
  #42408  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:19 PM
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Republicans sure are big on swearing oaths to each other. It would be nice if they paid attention to the one that they swore when they were elected. You know, the one to their country.
  #42409  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:45 PM
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Nah. I don't think "an impeachment tribunal" is a thing in the first place, let alone having the authority under the law to order an execution. The constitution sets out what impeachment is and the consequence if the senate trial finds the president guilty: removal from office. You will not that it does not say "removal with extreme prejudice".

Nor do I think your acceptance or non-acceptance of a warning has any effect here either.
Eh, Trump seems to think that his not accepting an impeachment enquiry makes a difference. Maybe that's where the mentioned poster got that notion.
  #42410  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/lin...oy-this-nation
What he needs is more loyalty oaths. The important thing is to keep them pledging !
  #42411  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/lin...oy-this-nation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
So he's asking the Senate - the body that sits in judgement - to pre-emptively judge the case before the investigation by the House has even started.
In the criminal court system, wouldn’t this constitute jury tampering?
  #42412  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:01 AM
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In the criminal court system, wouldn’t this constitute jury tampering?
It would, although the two instances are insufficiently analogous to contend any legal issues with what Graham is doing.

Sure, Graham is basically asking the Republicans to agree that there is no crime, corruption or treason that they will not excuse and cover up if committed by one of their own regardless of the evidence presented, but that's hardly news to those of us who have been paying attention.
  #42413  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:35 AM
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Did any of you actually read the story and look at the quotes? None of what you are saying is what Sen Graham is proposing.
  #42414  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:09 AM
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The article linked above had the misleading title "Lindsey Graham demands GOPers sign Trump loyalty oath because impeachment ‘is about to destroy this nation’."

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Did any of you actually read the story and look at the quotes? None of what you are saying is what Sen Graham is proposing.
Apparently nobody clicked except Mr. Kitchen (maybe!), Mr. Manson and, only after Manson's urging, me. Normally I wouldn't want to soil my eyes with Graham's excreta — he's a disgrace among Senate Republicans, a very low bar — but his turd was much more limited in its stench than Mr. Kitchen implies:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey Graham
I’m going to ask my colleagues in the Senate — Republicans — to sign a letter saying we do not believe the transcript of the phone call between the president and the Ukraine is an impeachable offense.
Several lessons:
(1) PLEASE let's not exaggerate Republican lies, crimes and treasons. If we have to exaggerate (or lie) to wake Americans up, then we've fallen to the level of the traitors subverting our democracy.
(2) Many news items can be summarized with a brief excerpt as I've done above. If it's worth posting, it's worth quoting an excerpt.
(3) Dopers generally do NOT click links. Many even get bitter: "I'm supposed to click a YouTube without you first providing a transcript? Bah!" From MUCH experience I can say it sucks when Dopers attack the messenger without clicking his links, but that's life.
  #42415  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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Did any of you actually read the story and look at the quotes? None of what you are saying is what Sen Graham is proposing.
He is asking them to state their views on Trump's guilt in advance of a hypothetical impeachment trial. How, exactly, would you frame that request in a more flattering light?
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Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 10-10-2019 at 09:11 AM.
  #42416  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Did any of you actually read the story and look at the quotes? None of what you are saying is what Sen Graham is proposing.
So I said:

Quote:
So he's asking the Senate - the body that sits in judgement - to pre-emptively judge the case before the investigation by the House has even started. Before any of the evidence has been collected, and in fact, while the Whitehouse is refusing to provide any of the requested evidence.
How am I wrong here? Is he not asking his Republican colleagues to pre-judge the issue before evidence is presented?
  #42417  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:31 AM
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Not sure which thread this one goes in -- I'll go with the generic "Republican" one since the tie to Criminal One is tangential (at least compared to a lot of other stuff into which his tiny fingers are immersed up to the wrists):

Quote:
Two associates of President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani pushed a GOP congressman to seek the ouster of the US ambassador to Ukraine at the same time as the associates were helping to bankroll the congressman's campaign, according to a federal indictment and campaign finance records.

The indictment of Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, which was unsealed today, shows how they discussed with former Rep. Pete Sessions of Texas to seek Marie Yovanovitch’s ouster. Both were later accused of lying to investigators about illegal campaign contributions they made to Sessions....
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  #42418  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
He is asking them to state their views on Trump's guilt in advance of a hypothetical impeachment trial. How, exactly, would you frame that request in a more flattering light?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
How am I wrong here? Is he not asking his Republican colleagues to pre-judge the issue before evidence is presented?
It reads to me that he is asking them to sign on to the opinion that the Ukraine phone call is not an impeachable offense. He's not talking about any other evidence, or Trump's guilt.

It's definitely not "Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment"
  #42419  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:56 AM
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It's definitely not "Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment"
And speaking of Lindsey Graham, the old trope of Republican hypocrisy rears its ugly head:

and if that wasn't enough

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  #42420  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:56 AM
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It reads to me that he is asking them to sign on to the opinion that the Ukraine phone call is not an impeachable offense. He's not talking about any other evidence, or Trump's guilt.

It's definitely not "Lindsey Graham wants Senate Republicans to sign a pledge not to vote for convicting Individual 1 during impeachment"
Well, in my opinion, it's walking a pretty fine fucking line.
  #42421  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:57 AM
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Well, in my opinion, it's walking a pretty fine fucking line.
Fair enough. I'm cool with that.
  #42422  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:07 PM
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And speaking of Lindsey Graham, the old trope of Republican hypocrisy rears its ugly head:
Oops, apologies to BigAppleBucky, he actually posted the second quote in late May.
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Last edited by Running with Scissors; 10-10-2019 at 12:10 PM.
  #42423  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:52 PM
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One of Rudy's indicted Ukraine pals gave thousands of dollars to Kevin McCarthy and Pete Sessions.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/rev...kevin-mccarthy
  #42424  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:06 PM
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First let me state some of my opinions:
Lindsey Graham should be waterboarded and sent to prison for life. Likewise Trump.
The Ukraine phone call is clear evidence IMO of felony and treason.

HOWEVER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
Well, in my opinion, it's walking a pretty fine fucking line.
Trump has committed 143 impeachable offenses by my count, that we know about. For many of them we don't yet have details, evidence, legal opinions.

Trump committed one (1) offense that is in the news lately, and which was the only offense Graham referred to. That offense is as clear as a freshly-washed window. Trump has even released an official summary of the call. It's easy to form an opinion about the guilt on that crime. Yet we hear the claim
"I ask Republicans to acquit of all 143 charges even though we've not heard the evidence, AND acquit of whatever untold crimes may come to light"
is almost the same as
"I ask Republicans to agree that the Ukrainian call, whose contents are rather well known, was not an impeachable offense."
Ooo-kayyy [walks away slowly]
  #42425  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:27 PM
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HOWEVER: ...
Paraphrasing Graham's ugly statement to be a completely different ugly statement is exactly the sort of thing for which we call out the Party of Lies, Greed and Hatred in this very thread.

Come on. We're better than them.
  #42426  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:46 PM
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One of Rudy's indicted Ukraine pals gave thousands of dollars to Kevin McCarthy and Pete Sessions.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/rev...kevin-mccarthy
You know, this is exactly why I think it is going to be so hard for the Republican Party to turn on Trump in any real way. Including Moscow Mitch and the rest of the crew.

They are all IN IT UP TO THEIR EYEBALLS. If Trump goes down, they know he will take the whole house of cards down with him.

Last edited by Euphonious Polemic; 10-10-2019 at 10:46 PM.
  #42427  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:50 PM
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"I ask Republicans to agree that the Ukrainian call, whose contents are rather well known, was not an impeachable offense."
For Shithead Graham, the very next step will be:

"And therefore, Trump is completely innocent and all lines of investigation into anything whatsoever should be stopped. WITCH HUNT!!"

It's disingeneous shit on the part of Graham, and I call it out as such.
  #42428  
Old 10-11-2019, 06:50 AM
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For Shithead Graham, the very next step will be:

"And therefore, Trump is completely innocent and all lines of investigation into anything whatsoever should be stopped. WITCH HUNT!!"

It's disingeneous shit on the part of Graham, and I call it out as such.
Lindsey Graham is a shithead? Definitely. Disingenuous? Absolutely. Utters plenty of shit-speech that should be condemned? You betcha.

So why do we need to invent something he MIGHT say in the future and condemn that?
  #42429  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:52 AM
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https://www.foxnews.com/sports/atlan...publicans-nlds

"Some Georgia Republicans blamed the Atlanta Braves’ blowout loss to the St. Louis Cardinals in Game 5 of the National League Division Series on the club nixing giving away foam tomahawks to fans."

Or maybe the Braves just weren't good enough? I wonder why they lost last year. Or the year before that. Or the year before that. Or the...

(BTW, it's Fox News, so the comments are priceless.)

Last edited by Mr. Greenjeans; 10-11-2019 at 10:53 AM.
  #42430  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:58 PM
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The guy who Jacob Wohl claimed was Kamala Harris's lover says he was hired via Craigslist and paid $500 to read from a script, that he was told it was for a Spike TV show, and he had no idea Harris was a real person.

Wohl may just be the most incompetent troll in the history of trolling.
  #42431  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:38 PM
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The guy who Jacob Wohl claimed was Kamala Harris's lover says he was hired via Craigslist and paid $500 to read from a script, that he was told it was for a Spike TV show, and he had no idea Harris was a real person.

Wohl may just be the most incompetent troll in the history of trolling.
The thing I can't figure out about people like Wohl is, are they actually stupid? Or have they just correctly identified how little effort it takes to grift conservatives?
  #42432  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:05 PM
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The thing I can't figure out about people like Wohl is, are they actually stupid? Or have they just correctly identified how little effort it takes to grift conservatives?
Does he make any money off of this? If I could easily make money posting ridiculous crap that people believe, I would.
  #42433  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:56 PM
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Does he make any money off of this? If I could easily make money posting ridiculous crap that people believe, I would.
Well, let’s do that then! We could call our site somewhat opposite of Straight Dope. Like Crooked Intellectual. That would attract a lot of the alt-truthers. I’m in!
  #42434  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:16 PM
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Eh, Trump seems to think that his not accepting an impeachment enquiry makes a difference. Maybe that's where the mentioned poster got that notion.
Trump is now operating under the Unitary Sovereign Executive Citizen mindset. If there's gold fringe on the flag, it doesn't count. He can say the magic words and people have to let him go. He doesn't want to create joinder with you, tho; let's be clear about that. As President, everything he says is law, too. And, legally, because he's President, he's the best at everything so everyone has to do what he says.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-11-2019 at 10:18 PM.
  #42435  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:21 PM
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On The View today, Rand Paul said that only people who earn more than $50,000 pay taxes.
https://www.newsweek.com/rand-paul-s...ay-any-1464724
  #42436  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:23 PM
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Rand Paul is an idiot with stupid hair.
  #42437  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:34 PM
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On The View today, Rand Paul said that only people who earn more than $50,000 pay taxes.
I make $45,000 a year and I pay taxes.

Rand Paul can lick my schwanz.
  #42438  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:56 PM
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I gather that lots of people with incomes below $50K don't pay "income tax" but do pay "payroll tax", a distinction that's fascinating and relevant to politicians and economists but not to people actually paying those taxes. I'd like Paul to explain to an hourly employee why that Social Security tax they pay isn't really an income tax, but a totally different tax that doesn't count.

Also, of course, Paul doesn't take into account state and local taxes and sales taxes.
  #42439  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:34 AM
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As far as I can tell, any actual official who's tried that "skin the game" crap has been careful to specify that 47% (or whatever) of the people don't pay federal income tax. This gets readily picked up by the glennbecks of the world who restate it as 47% of the population pay no taxes at all.
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  #42440  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:38 AM
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I gather that lots of people with incomes below $50K don't pay "income tax" but do pay "payroll tax", a distinction that's fascinating and relevant to politicians and economists but not to people actually paying those taxes. I'd like Paul to explain to an hourly employee why that Social Security tax they pay isn't really an income tax, but a totally different tax that doesn't count.

Also, of course, Paul doesn't take into account state and local taxes and sales taxes.
Not only do lower- or middle-income people pay taxes, but they very often pay taxes that are higher, as a percentage of their income, than the rich! Contrary to confused and lying right-wingers, Buffett's secretary really is taxed at a higher rate than Buffett is.

SocSec funding and spending can either be treated as part of the Federal Government, or SocSec can be regarded as a financial entity distinct from the government. Either approach is legitimate. What is NOT legitimate is to treat it as part when it suits your agenda, and not part in the very next paragraph when you want the opposite spin, yet this is precisely what right-wingers love to do: Lament about SocSec spending in the context of the tax burden on Job Creators, yet then pretend that workers don't pay taxes.
  #42441  
Old 10-12-2019, 04:54 AM
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There's an excellent NYTimes article https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/o...-tax-rate.html which lays out the tax burden across income percentiles. Include Property tax, payroll and income. Eye opening, if you haven't been paying attention.
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  #42442  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Wohl and Burkman claim they're going to produce the guy who provides drugs to Pelosi and Schiff.
(Yeah, I know it's Sputnik, but they're just reporting Pelosi's tweets)
https://sputniknews.com/us/201910121...er-connection/
  #42443  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:39 PM
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I just used Google to look up a definition, therefore my legal opinion here is sound. Legal zoom sound, no less.
It turns out that these 2 numb fucks are guilty of defamation of character. I'm going with slander. But in my newly expert opinion (from gancing at most of the paragrahs I saw.) Pelosi or Schiff, Harris, Warren and any of the others would have to file a civil suit.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/d...nder-and-libel
  #42444  
Old 10-12-2019, 02:03 PM
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I just used Google to look up a definition, therefore my legal opinion here is sound. Legal zoom sound, no less.
It turns out that these 2 numb fucks are guilty of defamation of character. I'm going with slander. But in my newly expert opinion (from gancing at most of the paragrahs I saw.) Pelosi or Schiff, Harris, Warren and any of the others would have to file a civil suit.
https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/d...nder-and-libel
As public figures, Pelosi, Schiff, et al would need to show actual malice. What a reasonable person might think or believe isn't sufficient in that case. To show actual malice, you need to show what the 2 numb fucks were actually thinking--that they knew or didn't give a shit that their statements were both false and damaging. If they did hire people to read a script, that would seem to meet that bar.
  #42445  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:28 PM
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GOP Senator afraid of being asked about Trump:
Quote:
Idaho Republican Sen. Jim Risch doesn’t want to talk about President Donald Trump or the many controversies currently taking the place of the wallpaper at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[snip]

Sometime during that event on Thursday, Risch was approached by reporter Heath Druzin, who tried to ask him about the 45th president’s controversial request for a foreign investigation into potential 2020 rival Joe Biden. But Druzin didn’t get too far.
Druzin: As the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, do you think it’s appropriate that the President asked a hostile foreign power–

Risch: Oh, I’m not gonna do it. I’m not gonna an interview on that. [unintelligible] Let’s talk about business today.

Druzin: Well, but, I think that’s a fair question to ask, Senator.

Risch: Do you want to do an interview on the business or not?

Druzin: Yes, I’d like to get to that, but first I have that question.

Risch: I’m not going there. If you want to do an interview with me on the business center, please do so.

Druzin: Senator, with all due respect, though. You are the chairman–
With that, Risch’s staff whisked the “clearly agitated” senator away.
Risch, too cowardly to face a few words, retreated into a safe space and barely avoided melting like the snowflake he is.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them."
If you don't stop to analyze the snot spray, you are missing that which is best in life. - Miller
I'm not sure why this is, but I actually find this idea grosser than cannibalism. - Excalibre, after reading one of my surefire million-seller business plans.
  #42446  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:53 PM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is offline
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Quote:
Republican Congressman Tweets Out Image Of Russian Warship To Wish US Navy Happy Birthday

Republican Florida Rep. Brian Mast wished the U.S. Navy a happy birthday using a picture of a warship Sunday in a since-deleted tweet, but the ship apparently was not American.
It's the Russian battlecruiser Pyotr Velikiy ("Peter the Great")




https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/13/r...p-navy-russia/

The deleted tweet in question:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...paign=trending
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Harry Bellerophonte
  #42447  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:07 PM
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Posted here rather than the Clusterfuck thread because it currently appears a third party, rather than the administration, was responsible:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hill
A fake video of President Trump shooting, stabbing and brutally assaulting media personalities and political opponents was played at a conference for his supporters at his Miami resort last week, the New York Times reported Sunday.
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...t-miami-resort

The clip, which the article says appeared to have been lifted from the movie Kingsman: the Secret Service, apparently showed a figure with Trump's head firing at representations of media members and political opponents including the late Sen. John McCain, Rep. Maxine Waters, Sen. Bernie Sanders, Sen. Mitt Romney, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and CNN.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 10-13-2019 at 11:12 PM.
  #42448  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Posted here rather than the Clusterfuck thread because it currently appears a third party, rather than the administration, was responsible:



https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...t-miami-resort

The clip, which the article says appeared to have been lifted from the movie Kingsman: the Secret Service, apparently showed a figure with Trump's head firing at representations of media members and political opponents including the late Sen. John McCain, Rep. Maxine Waters, Sen. Bernie Sanders, Sen. Mitt Romney, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and CNN.
It was bound to happen sooner or later. That will really help, eh? It just gives FPT* more ammunition (as it were). His people will probably take that video and plaster the CNN logo across the bottom to "prove" they put out fake news.
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* "Former President Trump" -- saying it until it becomes true.
  #42449  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
It was bound to happen sooner or later. That will really help, eh? It just gives FPT* more ammunition (as it were). His people will probably take that video and plaster the CNN logo across the bottom to "prove" they put out fake news.

My take was that it was made by FPT supporters for FPT supporters.
  #42450  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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Remind me again why Republicans said that what Kathy Griffin did was "beyond the pale" and "reprehensible"?
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