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  #301  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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Gary Johnson, the first name that should come to mind when one mentions 'electability'.

CMC fnord!
  #302  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:59 AM
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Tell you what, whether or not you decide to Primary someone electable or not is not my responsibility.

But hey, I am open to compromise. Let's vote in Gary Johnson and we can both be winners!
Again, you have no problem committing to that which you know has no chance in happening. Brave, brave Sir Robin!
  #303  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:03 AM
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And this is more just crazy straw as it's a good thing I will have more than 2 choices ...
1. Lie to us and vote for Trump
2. Vote for somebody that doesn't really have a chance in hell
3. Vote for nobody and let others do your dirty work for you
  #304  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:07 AM
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1. Lie to us and vote for Trump
2. Vote for somebody that doesn't really have a chance in hell
3. Vote for nobody and let others do your dirty work for you
Shit! That straw is now on FIRE!!!
  #305  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:09 AM
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Somewhere, Thomas Hobson is weeping.

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  #306  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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Shit! That straw is now on FIRE!!!
Let us get down to the real nitty gritty:
If it came down to George Washington vs. Trump, could you give us a solid commitment either way? What if it was Lincoln vs. Trump?
Clark Kent vs. Trump?
  #307  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:15 AM
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Let us get down to the real nitty gritty:
If it came down to George Washington vs. Trump, could you give us a solid commitment either way? What if it was Lincoln vs. Trump?
Clark Kent vs. Trump?
Nah, all them guys is sissies
  #308  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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Nah, all them guys is sissies
You are the one that showed how committed you are when it comes to imaginary face-offs.
  #309  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner.
Limited government is an ideal I do not hold lightly and from all the stuff you expected the Obama admin to do lines up with future Democrat admin, I doubt I could vote that way. Given that I would vote for Obama over Trump TODAY, but I'd rather have a Clinton or even a Bush back.

Editted to add: I didn't vote for Trump the last time, nor would I this go round.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you mean when you say you can't work within the limits while saying you'd vote for Obama if he was on the ticket. The assumptions I listed were explicitly identified as Obama era policies. So whichever Dem candidate was selected, those would be the platforms.

So while I appreciate that you would not vote for Trump under any circumstances, I'm a little confused that you'd sit it out rather than cast a vote for Obama (or Clinton, or Bush) policies.

It feels like you're hedging your bet and I'm not sure why.
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  #310  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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You are the one that showed how committed you are when it comes to imaginary face-offs.
Just for posterity. Commitment, and imaginary in the same sentence! Whew, how horrible I am for not being able to commit on a fantasy face off.

Last edited by Kearsen1; 10-10-2019 at 11:42 AM.
  #311  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:43 AM
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I’d be worried that Lincoln or Washington might be a bit out of touch. Though Lincoln in particular I feel could do well if people got him up to speed. I wonder if he’s living in San Dimas right now.

Clark Kent isn’t eligible for the presidency, since he wasn’t born on US soil. Or even Earth soil.
  #312  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:47 AM
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I’d be worried that Lincoln or Washington might be a bit out of touch.
More than Trump?
  #313  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:49 AM
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Just for posterity. Commitment, and imaginary in the same sentence! Whew, how horrible I am for not being able to commit on a fantasy face off.
You can't even comprehend your own posts, it seems. The only face-offs you seem willing to commit to are the imaginary ones.
  #314  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:49 AM
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I may very well end up voting third party, given that option.
Donald Trump would welcome your support in that way.
  #315  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:50 AM
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Vote Betelgeuse 2020.
  #316  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:51 AM
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Especially that asshole Shodan. Who should fucking well know better.
Nah, he shouldn't and doesn't. You got the asshole part right tho.
  #317  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:52 AM
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And this is more just crazy straw as it's a good thing I will have more than 2 choices ...
Wrong.
  #318  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:18 PM
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More than Trump?
Trump is definitely in his own la-la land much of the time, where everything he does is right and is the best ever and everyone knows this and loves him except for the crooks out there with their fake news. But he understands modern technology, generally knows what countries exist and their relations to the US, has at least a weak grasp of history from the past 200 years, and so on.

Though I do admit that I like the idea of a president that might assume “Twitter” is referring to bird calls, rather than making himself look dangerously insane on the platform regularly.
  #319  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:19 PM
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It feels like you're hedging your bet and I'm not sure why.
He/She/It is a gutless coward. Just like Little Donny Fail-Fail and ALL his MAGAtrash fans.
  #320  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:17 PM
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You can't even comprehend your own posts, it seems. The only face-offs you seem willing to commit to are the imaginary ones.
As far as I remember, Gary Johnson was actually ON the ticket ...
  #321  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:20 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you mean when you say you can't work within the limits while saying you'd vote for Obama if he was on the ticket. The assumptions I listed were explicitly identified as Obama era policies. So whichever Dem candidate was selected, those would be the platforms.

So while I appreciate that you would not vote for Trump under any circumstances, I'm a little confused that you'd sit it out rather than cast a vote for Obama (or Clinton, or Bush) policies.

It feels like you're hedging your bet and I'm not sure why.
I'd vote for Obama because in hindsight, he was a pretty decent President. I'd only be sitting out if you paint me in the corner by making me pick one of the two choices you gave (possibly)
Otherwise (and I explicitly said this) I would vote third party, or write in.
  #322  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:49 PM
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How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence?

Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies?
But I don't know a single "Antifa" bully. I've heard of the guy in Hamilton, but I don't know him.

If you'd like me to name violent Trump supporters I've seen on the news, I can certainly do that.
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  #323  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:54 PM
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The snowflakes are you pathetic losers suffering from terminal TDS who have started 57382 posts on the glorious orange one.
You can shut your hole now, bitch.
  #324  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:54 PM
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I'd vote for Obama because in hindsight, he was a pretty decent President. I'd only be sitting out if you paint me in the corner by making me pick one of the two choices you gave (possibly)
Otherwise (and I explicitly said this) I would vote third party, or write in.
So, the "research" thing was just a red herring - you've already reached your conclusion. Obama era policies platform be damned, too.

You're making it personal. Am I understanding that right?
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  #325  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:55 PM
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And yet here you are, still defending that ass in chief. If you haven't got the guts to say you support him, fuck off.
Ditto.
  #326  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:02 PM
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Fuck your feelings, you whiny little snowflake. This forum isn’t a safe space.
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  #327  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:06 PM
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Good to know that your 'ideals' include four more years with Trump as President.

CMC fnord!
At this point my "ideal" candidate is anyone who isn't a corrupt lying Russian asset traitor.
  #328  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:19 PM
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Otherwise (and I explicitly said this) I would vote third party, or write in.
"Voting is a chess move, not a valentine." -Rebecca Solnit

Donald Trump appreciates your continued support.

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  #329  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:54 PM
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So, the "research" thing was just a red herring - you've already reached your conclusion. Obama era policies platform be damned, too.

You're making it personal. Am I understanding that right?
Evidently not. I would research whatever candidates there are going to be on the ticket .. and then decide. Whether or not my politics aligned with someone else's politics would then be a basis to cast a vote. Trump starts off with a much bigger burden in this regard.

Do you honestly believe the things that you write? When did you stop beating your wife?

That is exactly what you just (tried) to do to my line of reasoning.

Believability is a thing. Platform be damned I guess.
  #330  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:56 PM
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"Voting is a chess move, not a valentine." -Rebecca Solnit

Donald Trump appreciates your continued support.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

And this is where you guys lose me, why would me choosing to vote for someone else helping Trump. As I said earlier, if you guys can't put forth a candidate that sways voters (like Obama did) that is no fault of the general public. That blames lies squarely with the DNC
  #331  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:05 PM
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And this is where you guys lose me, why would me choosing to vote for someone else helping Trump. As I said earlier, if you guys can't put forth a candidate that sways voters (like Obama did) that is no fault of the general public. That blames lies squarely with the DNC
And we're back to where we started: The Oliver Hardy Defense.
"Now look what you made me do!"
  #332  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:06 PM
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Exactly. I feel strongly that everyone's top priority in the coming election should be defeating Trump, therefore everyone should be committing to unconditionally support the Democratic candidate, no matter who he or she is, and I get very impatient with people who aren't yet willing to make that commitment. But obviously, voting third party (or not voting at all), although a bad and irresponsible decision IMO, is much LESS bad and irresponsible than actually voting for Trump, and it's silly to claim that the two decisions are exactly equivalent.

Last edited by Thing Fish; 10-10-2019 at 04:06 PM.
  #333  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:09 PM
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And if we encounter someone who absolutely isn't going to vote Democrat, and is choosing between Trump and Gary Johnson, then it's probably not productive to be chastising that person. Rather, encourage them to vote Johnson, because that's half a win for our side.
  #334  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:10 PM
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Odd thing is, if the parts of the Constitution which guarantee the Sovereignty of the United States is unimportant to Conservatives, why should I listen to them when they stress the same document to argue for the Sovereignty of Guns?
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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Odd thing is, if the parts of the Constitution which guarantee the Sovereignty of the United States is unimportant to Conservatives, why should I listen to them when they stress the same document to argue for the Sovereignty of Guns?
That’s one hell of a straw man there.
  #336  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:29 PM
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That’s one hell of a straw man there.
No, not really.

The guiding principle behind any sovereign state is the control of ones own political processes. Doesn't matter if it's a Communist state, Democratic, Fascist, Kingdom, Empire, Dictatorship, whatever. A sovereign state controls the way the State determines who is going to lead the State's policy making apparatus. It's part and parcel of the definition of "sovereign".

If conservatives... sorry, "Trump Supporters"... decide that it's OK to invite foreign sovereign states to interfere in our own political processes, in violation of the Constitution, then why should I listen to those same people who argue that the Constitution gives us the right to bear arms? Especially when these same people argue that the Constitution does not give us the right to self-determination for the State?

I get that these people are used to picking and choosing which Bible verse to quote, but the Constitution is only 4 pages long!

Last edited by JohnT; 10-10-2019 at 04:31 PM.
  #337  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:27 PM
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I agree that if anyone openly accepts a foreign entity having undue influence over the American election process, that is ceding sovereignty. That’s not a radical thing to suggest, it’s common sense.

I just don’t recall anyone actually doing that. Trump downplaying Russia’s role and believing them over claims from our own intelligence services is stupid and servile. Those who wholly support Trump and everything he does are by extension acting as if America’s sovereignty doesn’t matter as long as they think it’s helping “their guy”.

The Republican Party as a whole doesn’t endorse Trump’s support and trust of Russia. Here’s the first result of a quick Google search for Republicans clashing with him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...st-putin-ally/
Now the fact that anyone in Congress will back the president in excusing Russia is disturbing. But they don’t all blindly follow him. Most career politicians know that this kind of thing will hurt them long term. Nobody wants to be remembered years from now as the “guy who supported Russia when they were our enemy” during reelection.

Painting everyone with a broad brush is inaccurate and weakens what is a legitimate argument about the weasels who really are okay with letting Putin undermine our democratic form of government, when there are people on the “wrong side” who still won’t go along with it. Many of them in fact.
  #338  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:37 PM
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And this is where you guys lose me, why would me choosing to vote for someone else helping Trump. As I said earlier, if you guys can't put forth a candidate that sways voters (like Obama did) that is no fault of the general public. That blames lies squarely with the DNC

Look, you dumbass, the voters were swayed by a candidate other than your hero. The voters, to the tune of millions more, voted for a candidate other than your hero.
  #339  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:25 AM
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Thank you, Kearsen1 ! You answered the question, unlike most of the Gopsters here ... and even got the correct answer! It would be rude to now ask you to "show your work."
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... Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, gun toting American.
"Fiscal conservative." Here's what a leading Republican intellectual said recently (when it was noted that Trump has pumped the annual deficit up to a trillion):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore. All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it's been around.
  #340  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:30 AM
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Look, you dumbass, the voters were swayed by a candidate other than your hero. The voters, to the tune of millions more, voted for a candidate other than your hero.
This line of thinking is EXACTLY how you got the first 4 years of Trump. This line of thinking is very likely to get you 4 more.
  #341  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:31 AM
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Thank you, Kearsen1 ! You answered the question, unlike most of the Gopsters here ... and even got the correct answer! It would be rude to now ask you to "show your work."


"Fiscal conservative." Here's what a leading Republican intellectual said recently (when it was noted that Trump has pumped the annual deficit up to a trillion):
I agree that there is no party of the current big 2 that offer fiscal conservancy, which is why I find myself aligning more with third party platforms.
  #342  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:39 AM
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I'll just let you argue with yourself.

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I agree that there is no party of the current big 2 that offer fiscal conservancy, which is why I find myself aligning more with third party platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1
This line of thinking is EXACTLY how you got the first 4 years of Trump. This line of thinking is very likely to get you 4 more.
You're right.
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  #343  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:40 AM
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This line of thinking is EXACTLY how you got the first 4 years of Trump. This line of thinking is very likely to get you 4 more.
Blaming people who voted for Clinton for Trump getting elected and excusing those who actually voted for him is essentially the same as the logic spouse abusers use when they blame the spouse for making them beat them.

You should stop doing that.

The party of personal responsibility sure doesn't show any these days.
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  #344  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:41 AM
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And this is where you guys lose me, why would me choosing to vote for someone else helping Trump. As I said earlier, if you guys can't put forth a candidate that sways voters (like Obama did) that is no fault of the general public. That blames lies squarely with the DNC
How is it anyone's fault but your own that you are woefully ignorant of Duverger's Law?
  #345  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:53 AM
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I agree that there is no party of the current big 2 that offer fiscal conservancy, which is why I find myself aligning more with third party platforms.
Curious. Is your plan to raise taxes or to cut spending?
  #346  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:24 AM
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Evidently not. I would research whatever candidates there are going to be on the ticket .. and then decide. Whether or not my politics aligned with someone else's politics would then be a basis to cast a vote. Trump starts off with a much bigger burden in this regard.

Do you honestly believe the things that you write? When did you stop beating your wife?

That is exactly what you just (tried) to do to my line of reasoning.

Believability is a thing. Platform be damned I guess.
That's a little defensive, but thanks for being honest about how you ultimately plan to vote.

As to me being honest about what I write, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you asking me whether I believe that whoever the Dem candidate turns out to be, he or she will pursue a platform similar to that of the Obama administration? If so, yes, I believe that despite all the progressive ideas from Sanders, Warren, etc... I think the American electorate is not ready for higher taxes to pay for free tuition and UHC. Don't get me wrong, would be great if the majority got behind such a progressive change, but I doubt they will. So I believe we are not going to get anything too far left of the Obama administration policies.

That's why I pressed you to tell me whether you were voting for policies or for candidates. Seems you are more concerned with personality than being a pragmatist about the kinds of policies are likely to be successfully implemented. Saying you'd vote for a third party candidate, or sit it out, is a reasonable choice given your line of reasoning, in my opinion. So, as long as you don't vote for Trump, I have no fight to pick with you.
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  #347  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:59 AM
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Blaming people who voted for Clinton for Trump getting elected and excusing those who actually voted for him is essentially the same as the logic spouse abusers use when they blame the spouse for making them beat them.

You should stop doing that.

The party of personal responsibility sure doesn't show any these days.
I don't blame the general voter for that at all. I blame the DNC for not listening to the country and putting forth an electable person instead of toeing the line of NEXT UP!
So yes, they are to blame.

And if you want to lay blame on third party voters for Trump getting elected, then YOU are just as at fault as the DNC leadership for allowing such a Democrat candidate to be put forth.
  #348  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:02 AM
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lololol. The party of personal responsibility, everyone! Rugged individualism at it's finest!
  #349  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:22 AM
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I agree that there is no party of the current big 2 that offer fiscal conservancy, which is why I find myself aligning more with third party platforms.
Democrats have been working to bring down the federal deficit for decades. It came down to 0 under President Clinton. After going up at the beginning of Obama's presidency to deal with the recession, the deficit was coming down for most of his term. Give Republicans control and it shoots back up again.

If the last 30 years haven't convinced you that one party does offer fiscal conservancy, I don't know what to tell you.
  #350  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:23 AM
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lololol. The party of personal responsibility, everyone! Rugged individualism at it's finest!
I am an advocate for personal responsibility. Your point being what? Other than someone else parroted it earlier.

It should come as no surprise that what you are attempting to call MY personal responsibility, really isn't.
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