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  #51  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Does anybody here on the SDMB actually self-identify as a Trump supporter? Everytime we had "questions for Trump supporters," the vast majority of such posts weren't from Trumpers, but from people trying to project or guess what Trumpers think. Person A accusing B of supporting Trump is vastly different than B actually proclaiming his support of Trump.
We have people that will either defend whatever the fuck he does or says, and/or attack his political enemies at the drop of a hat...but those with the honesty to actually say they support him are very rare.
  #52  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:41 PM
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- Ban guns?
- Be nice to minorities?
Trump implemented more gun control than Obama ever did. Can't be that.

If Trump opened the borders tomorrow, the response would be "See Democrats? He does exactly what you've always wanted and you are STILL hating! #MAGA!"
  #53  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:49 PM
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We have people that will either defend whatever the fuck he does or says, and/or attack his political enemies at the drop of a hat...but those with the honesty to actually say they support him are very rare.
Itís also possible that people who fully support Trump avoid a site devoted to fighting misinformation like a vampire avoids churches.
  #54  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:55 PM
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Itís also possible that people who fully support Trump avoid a site devoted to fighting misinformation like a vampire avoids churches.
If that were true we wouldn't hear the constant whining about how they are treated unfairly.
  #55  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:54 PM
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Well, octopus said heíd vote for Trump over Bernie or another socialist and EP said octopus didnít know what a socialist was. As someone who likes Bernie largely because heís a socialist, I was just like ďUmm...hang on a secĒ.

But yeah, this is all just a tangent. Forget I said anything.
And Sanders isn't a Socialist. He's a somewhat progressive Liberal.
  #56  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:59 PM
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More than once on this board the question has been asked of Trump supporters: What is the minimum Trump could do to cause you to oppose him?
Care to guess what the few responses were?
Gonna guess that if Trump called himself a democrat and was still the miserable asshole that he is and doing they same things he is doing, he would lose most of his MAGA support. Yes, they are that dumb.
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  #57  
Old 10-03-2019, 05:10 PM
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I was having a conversation with a close relative the other day that I found enlightening, at least with regard to the current conservative psyche.
I asked him if he thought there were any hard lines the "good guys" should never cross. And he basically said, not really. He said that it's all nice and well to have ethics in a world where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya, but in the real world, you do what you have to do in America's best interests. Even if it means lowering yourself to "their" level.
After several minutes of debate, and some hemming and hawing, he came up with a line: genocide. As in, if there's a village full of civilians, you can't just bomb them because you don't like their face. If there's a better reason to bomb them, though, like there's terrorists hiding out in the village, kaboom away.

Convince yourself that having Agent Orange around is the best thing for the country, and with that mindset you really could overlook him shooting a guy on Fifth Avenue.
  #58  
Old 10-03-2019, 05:58 PM
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Iím not technically a Trump supporter though I may have to be in 2020 if Sanders or another socialist gets the (D) nomination.
Pardon this little digression, but I really enjoy dumbass Americans who don't even know what the word "socialist" means. There has been, in all history, only one socialist government in North America, and you've never heard of it. It was the CCF party in Saskatchewan, and one of its major legacies was a universal health care system that was eventually adopted by the whole country. The text below is from an abstract of a speech at the Empire Club in Toronto, a distinguished non-partisan speakers' venue founded in 1903, listing a few other horrors of the socialist CCF:
The election of the C.C.F., twelve years after its formation, in the Province of Saskatchewan: the first socialist government in North America. The profound effect on the structure, function and policies of other political parties in Canada. Benefits to all Canadians from the accomplishments of this C.C.F. government. Statistics and figures that show Saskatchewan's high rate of growth. A description and discussion of the many measures pioneered in Saskatchewan, enabling her people to pursue richer and more wholesome lives. Several topics are discussed in this look at Saskatchewan's progress, including non-farm production, employment in manufacturing, productivity per worker, mining, construction, electric power, agriculture, per capita income, investment figures, industrial growth, population, civil service reform, provincial taxation, the per capita tax burden, the financial record of the Saskatchewan C.C.F. Government, Crown Corporations in the province, school grants, teachers' salaries and standards, student aid, university enrollment, welfare, hospital services, labour legislation, automobile insurance, per capita municipal taxes, water and sewer facilities, and road improvement.
http://speeches.empireclub.org/61268/data?n=4
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:07 PM
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Pardon this little digression, but I really enjoy dumbass Americans who don't even know what the word "socialist" means. There has been, in all history, only one socialist government in North America, and you've never heard of it. It was the CCF party in Saskatchewan, and one of its major legacies was a universal health care system that was eventually adopted by the whole country. The text below is from an abstract of a speech at the Empire Club in Toronto, a distinguished non-partisan speakers' venue founded in 1903, listing a few other horrors of the socialist CCF:
The election of the C.C.F., twelve years after its formation, in the Province of Saskatchewan: the first socialist government in North America. The profound effect on the structure, function and policies of other political parties in Canada. Benefits to all Canadians from the accomplishments of this C.C.F. government. Statistics and figures that show Saskatchewan's high rate of growth. A description and discussion of the many measures pioneered in Saskatchewan, enabling her people to pursue richer and more wholesome lives. Several topics are discussed in this look at Saskatchewan's progress, including non-farm production, employment in manufacturing, productivity per worker, mining, construction, electric power, agriculture, per capita income, investment figures, industrial growth, population, civil service reform, provincial taxation, the per capita tax burden, the financial record of the Saskatchewan C.C.F. Government, Crown Corporations in the province, school grants, teachers' salaries and standards, student aid, university enrollment, welfare, hospital services, labour legislation, automobile insurance, per capita municipal taxes, water and sewer facilities, and road improvement.
http://speeches.empireclub.org/61268/data?n=4
I know what it means but if a politician wants to refer to himself as a socialist I'm willing to oblige. I don't want to mis-ideology the guy.
  #60  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:07 PM
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I was having a conversation with a close relative the other day that I found enlightening, at least with regard to the current conservative psyche.
I asked him if he thought there were any hard lines the "good guys" should never cross. And he basically said, not really. He said that it's all nice and well to have ethics in a world where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya, but in the real world, you do what you have to do in America's best interests. Even if it means lowering yourself to "their" level.
After several minutes of debate, and some hemming and hawing, he came up with a line: genocide. As in, if there's a village full of civilians, you can't just bomb them because you don't like their face. If there's a better reason to bomb them, though, like there's terrorists hiding out in the village, kaboom away.

Convince yourself that having Agent Orange around is the best thing for the country, and with that mindset you really could overlook him shooting a guy on Fifth Avenue.
Make him watch Judgement at Nuremberg, over and over again, until he understands the speech Spencer Tracy gives at the end.

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Janning's record and his fate illuminate the most shattering truth that has emerged from this trial. If he and all of the other defendants had been degraded perverts, if all of the leaders of the Third Reich had been sadistic monsters and maniacs, then these events would have no more moral significance than an earthquake, or any other natural catastrophe. But this trial has shown that under a national crisis, ordinary, even able and extraordinary men, can delude themselves into the commission of crimes so vast and heinous that they beggar the imagination. No one who has sat through the trial can ever forget them. Men sterilized because of political belief. A mockery made of friendship and faith. The murder of children. How easily it can happen.

There are those in our own country too who today speak of the 'protection of country,' of 'survival'. A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! Before the people of the world, let it now be noted that here, in our decision, this is what we stand for: Justice, truth, and the value of a single human being.
(emphasis mine)
How far we have fallen.
  #61  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:22 PM
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I know what it means but if a politician wants to refer to himself as a socialist I'm willing to oblige. I don't want to mis-ideology the guy.
You kind of miss the point in a big way. It's that you automatically, in knee-jerk fashion, consider any hint of "socialism" to be inherently evil, despite the great things that social democracy has achieved in places like the Scandinavian countries and, to a lesser extent, in Canada, the UK, and many other advanced countries. And your fear of such progressivism is so great and terrifying that when someone like Bernie uses the term hyperbolically, it's enough to send you scurrying to vote for an orange psychopath who is systematically destroying your country for his own enrichment. My point is, this is a choice that only an irrational dumbass would make, no offense.
  #62  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:28 PM
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You kind of miss the point in a big way. It's that you automatically, in knee-jerk fashion, consider any hint of "socialism" to be inherently evil, despite the great things that social democracy has achieved in places like the Scandinavian countries and, to a lesser extent, in Canada, the UK, and many other advanced countries. And your fear of such progressivism is so great and terrifying that when someone like Bernie uses the term hyperbolically, it's enough to send you scurrying to vote for an orange psychopath who is systematically destroying your country for his own enrichment. My point is, this is a choice that only an irrational dumbass would make, no offense.
I like a lot of government programs and I wouldn't mind seeing some expanded. I don't blindly trust any institution though.

And yes, I'd rather have orangemanbad than a ridiculously expansive, general wealth tax.

Last edited by octopus; 10-03-2019 at 06:29 PM.
  #63  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:29 PM
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You kind of miss the point in a big way. It's that you automatically, in knee-jerk fashion, consider any hint of "socialism" to be inherently evil, despite the great things that social democracy has achieved in places like the Scandinavian countries and, to a lesser extent, in Canada, the UK, and many other advanced countries. And your fear of such progressivism is so great and terrifying that when someone like Bernie uses the term hyperbolically, it's enough to send you scurrying to vote for an orange psychopath who is systematically destroying your country for his own enrichment. My point is, this is a choice that only an irrational dumbass would make, no offense.
Would it be possible to take this subject elsewhere?
  #64  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:34 PM
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I'm sure glad no one here calls me vermin, insect, piece of shit, racist, Nazi, self-serving shithole, etc.
That thread is appalling. However, you aren't going to catch me voting for asahi. Too many Trump voters support the guy because he's willing to say the same sort of things about minorities. Are you appalled by that?
  #65  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:55 PM
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Would it be possible to take this subject elsewhere?
Yeah, we certainly can't be caught discussing politics in a political thread.
  #66  
Old 10-03-2019, 06:56 PM
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And since Sanders calls himself a socialist forgive me if I don't use the super-duper precise historic meaning of the word. I'm sure you call yourself liberal when you have nothing in common with classic liberalism.
You realize Trump has advocated political violence, right?
Now Sanders is way down on my list of Democratic candidates, but exactly is it about his positions that is worse than the lying, press attacking, incompetent, sell out to the North Koreans, cowardly incumbent? Besides him calling himself a Socialist that is?
  #67  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:12 PM
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You realize Trump has advocated political violence, right?
Now Sanders is way down on my list of Democratic candidates, but exactly is it about his positions that is worse than the lying, press attacking, incompetent, sell out to the North Koreans, cowardly incumbent? Besides him calling himself a Socialist that is?
Itíll be far easier to undo Trumpian policies than it would be to undo the vast expansion of statism under Warren or Sanders.
  #68  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:21 PM
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I am here to make fun of you, mock your foolishness, and generally amuse myself at your expense. ...
This only answers the question, "Why do people who support Former President Trump* (or pretend to) hang around this board. Nothing more. Obviously, this is also the modus operandi and raison d'Ítre (and other foreign phrases) of trolls.



As for the actual question proposed in the OP, allow me to point out that this question has been posed in half a dozen threads since FPT* was elected and NO supporter has EVER posted any reply, let alone a coherent reply that addresses the question clearly. Never. Not once.

Anti-trumpers will post answers speculating why people support him, but none of the actual supporters ever posts.

This time is no different.
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  #69  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:31 PM
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Itíll be far easier to undo Trumpian policies than it would be to undo the vast expansion of statism under Warren or Sanders.
It's generally harder to undo popular policies than unpopular policies.
  #70  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:36 PM
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What the fuck stupid shit is ďself-identifyĒ lmfao

You overly emotional weirdos keep regurgitating that phrase and it is cringe as hell.
  #71  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:37 PM
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It's generally harder to undo popular policies than unpopular policies.
Yea. Unearned goodies are popular. They arenít generally beneficial in the long term.
  #72  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:40 PM
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War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.

I heard an NPR story (yeah, I know, but I still listen because I drive a bit) which contained a short interview with a Pennsylvania voter, an employed engineer no less, who won't vote again for his Democratic representative if she votes for impeachment because (paraphrasing) "if you're removing a President who's making America great, you need to come up with your own plan to make America great."

So Orwell's observations haven't lost any informative value in the last 70 years.
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  #73  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:42 PM
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Yea. Unearned goodies are popular. They arenít generally beneficial in the long term.
You are right. Money given to ensure infant children have enough food to eat is clearly not beneficial in the long term.

  #74  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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You are right. Money given to ensure infant children have enough food to eat is clearly not beneficial in the long term.

That's why the modifier "generally" was inserted. Hmm... and who's to say that in the grand scheme of things feeding the weak is utilitarian? The discussion on intrinsic rights has me thinking.

Last edited by octopus; 10-03-2019 at 07:49 PM.
  #75  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:58 PM
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That's why the modifier "generally" was inserted.
Fair enough. How about some sort of proof that unearned 'goodies' given to the less fortunate "arenít generally beneficial in the long term"?
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:37 PM
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Fair enough. How about some sort of proof that unearned 'goodies' given to the less fortunate "arenít generally beneficial in the long term"?
You mean like the taxpayer paying for the college debt of dumbasses who canít do it themselves?
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:47 PM
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You mean like the taxpayer paying for the college debt of dumbasses who canít do it themselves?
Sure, we can go with that if you want. Is that generally non-beneficial in the long term? How do you know?
  #78  
Old 10-03-2019, 08:52 PM
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War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.

I heard an NPR story (yeah, I know, but I still listen because I drive a bit) ...
Whatís wrong with NPR? Serious question.
  #79  
Old 10-03-2019, 08:57 PM
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You mean like the taxpayer paying for the college debt of dumbasses who canít do it themselves?
Hey, shit-for-brains. Are you a Trump supporter, or are you yet another gutless wonder who would rather troll a thread than admit it?
  #80  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:06 PM
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Ignoring everything Trump has done in the past, he is now openly asking foreign countries to investigate his political opponents, so I have to ask those of you who support him: What in the holy fuck is wrong with you people?
At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong? Have all of you always secretly been this crookedly self-serving and were just waiting for the right opportunity to show your true colors? And the first mealy-mouthed jackass that suggests that they wouldn't be this way if we just listened to those bigots and talked nicey-nicey to them can just shove it where the sun don't shine. I've seen how they talk on their own forums and in person, and I've seen how they respond to differences of opinion in their own forums and in person, and I've got a bit of advice about those of you who bitch about not being treated "fairly" here: I've seen your version of "fair" on your home turf, so be damn glad we don't treat you the way you do others.
Were you similarly outraged when it was revealed that paid agent of the Clinton campaign approached Russian officials, and subsequently funneled millions of dollars to them, for the infamous fake dossier (the one so obviously fake that even NYTimes refused to print that garbage, leaving it to the extreme far-left outlets like Buzzfeed and CNN to do the dirty job).
If you were not outraged, What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:08 PM
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Another question, re this Guardian article: Trump announces record campaign haul amid impeachment inquiry. Trampsters (not all rich) send their money to a self-proclaimed multi-billionaire who brags of cheating on taxes. Umm... why?
  #82  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:11 PM
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Were you similarly outraged when it was revealed that paid agent of the Clinton campaign approached Russian officials, and subsequently funneled millions of dollars to them, for the infamous fake dossier (the one so obviously fake that even NYTimes refused to print that garbage, leaving it to the extreme far-left outlets like Buzzfeed and CNN to do the dirty job).
If you were not outraged, What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
Yes, when President Hillary Clinton did that, in her official capacity as the head of the executive branch and of the foreign policy of the US, I was indeed outraged.

Then I woke up, and remembered we had that electoral college thingie.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 10-03-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:15 PM
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Yes, when President Hillary Clinton did that, in her official capacity as the head of the executive branch and of the foreign policy of the US, I was indeed outraged.

Then I woke up, and remembered we had that electoral college thingie.
Ah, so you're ok with US Presidential candidate funneling millions of dollars for fake information about their political opponents from Russian operatives.

What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?

Last edited by Northeast Refugee; 10-03-2019 at 09:15 PM.
  #84  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:29 PM
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Ah, so you're ok with US Presidential candidate funneling millions of dollars for fake information about their political opponents from Russian operatives.

What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
Absolutely. If Mark Sanford or Corey Booker or Amy Klobuchar wants to spend money on hookers and blow, I don’t care. If such a person becomes one of the two major-party candidates, I’ll weigh that along with fifty other considerations, compare this sum total to the other major party’s candidate, and cast my vote accordingly.

What does ANY of this have to do with the current president of this US? Bupkis. Nada. Zilch.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 10-03-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:30 PM
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Absolutely. If Mark Sanford or Corey Booker or Amy Klobuchar wants to spend money on hookers and blow, I donít care.
Do you care if they collude with Russian operatives to collect fake political dossier on their political opponents?
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:31 PM
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Ah, so you're ok with US Presidential candidate funneling millions of dollars for fake information about their political opponents from Russian operatives.

What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
When do you clock out, comrade?
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:32 PM
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Were you similarly outraged when it was revealed that paid agent of the Clinton campaign approached Russian officials, and subsequently funneled millions of dollars to them, for the infamous fake dossier?
Could you kindly re-reveal it for those following along at home? Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:34 PM
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When do you clock out, comrade?
Northeast would be Kamchatka, so itís barely daybreak.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:35 PM
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Could you kindly re-reveal it for those following along at home? Thanks.
What's there to reveal? DNC and Clinton campaign funneled millions of dollars to Russian operatives to collect dirt on Clinton's political enemy. The return on their investment was so pathetic, that only Goebbels-like outlets like Buzzfeed and CNN decided to publish it, while even the hard-code leftist rag like NY Times refused to publish it.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:36 PM
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When do you clock out, comrade?
I clock-out в семнадцать ноль-ноль, товарищ.
  #91  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:36 PM
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Were you similarly outraged when it was revealed that paid agent of the Clinton campaign approached Russian officials, and subsequently funneled millions of dollars to them, for the infamous fake dossier (the one so obviously fake that even NYTimes refused to print that garbage, leaving it to the extreme far-left outlets like Buzzfeed and CNN to do the dirty job).
If you were not outraged, What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
Hey, Mr. Look!-Over-There!
Are you a Trump supporter?
  #92  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:39 PM
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I clock-out в семнадцать ноль-ноль, товарищ.
Spasibo
  #93  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Northeast Refugee View Post
What's there to reveal? DNC and Clinton campaign funneled millions of dollars to Russian operatives to collect dirt on Clinton's political enemy. The return on their investment was so pathetic, that only Goebbels-like outlets like Buzzfeed and CNN decided to publish it, while even the hard-code leftist rag like NY Times refused to publish it.
Is this your way of referring to the Steele Dossier?
  #94  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:40 PM
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We have people that will either defend whatever the fuck he does or says, and/or attack his political enemies at the drop of a hat...but those with the honesty to actually say they support him are very rare.
Thank you, Annoyed and Northeast Refugee, for being perfect examples.
  #95  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:41 PM
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spasibo
Пожалуйста.
  #96  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:42 PM
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Is this your way of referring to the Steele Dossier?
This is my way of referring to Clinton and DNC colluding with Russian officials and paying them millions of dollars to collect dirt on their political opponents.
  #97  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:48 PM
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This is my way of referring to Clinton and DNC colluding with Russian officials and paying them millions of dollars to collect dirt on their political opponents.
Could you educate me with a cite?
  #98  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:51 PM
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Could you educate me with a cite?
I dunno, something like this should help you out

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...d54_story.html
  #99  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:51 PM
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Could you educate me with a cite?
Or better yet, don't let the hijack continue until the gutless wonders say if they support Trump or not.
  #100  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Northeast Refugee View Post
Ah, so you're ok with US Presidential candidate funneling millions of dollars for fake information about their political opponents from Russian operatives.

What in the holy fuck is wrong with you?? At what point did you decide that there is no difference between right and wrong?
Why would fake information cost so much? Seems like one could get the real thing for a lot less.

But what point are you trying to make? It's seems like you are saying that actual President Trump gets an automatic free pass on wrongdoing if it can ever be proven Candidate Clinton did something prosecutable (which seems not to have happened quite yet). Is that correct?
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