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  #251  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:55 PM
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What do you know? There actually is something that Trump can do that pisses off his supporters:

Quote:
Trump fans are fuming at the president’s signature Florida resort after Mar-a-Lago canceled an anti-Muslim group’s fundraiser starring conservative columnist Michelle Malkin.
Now, technically it's not Trump doing it, but given how he still hasn't recused himself from his businesses, I think that's just a technicality, more a word than a practice.
  #252  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I could've sworn I remember reading some conservative doper who said they didn't vote for Trump, but when they were standing at the voting booth, they were thinking of those mean librul Dopers and their bad arguments and they almost pulled the trigger for Trump anyway.
You may be thinking of Bricker. In the tale he tells, actually casting a ballot in 2016 was very emotional, almost traumatic. He actually voted Trump, voided the ballot and returned to the worker for a new ballot before voting Clinton. This seemed quite odd: I thought Bricker was a thinker. A thinker would have already made a decision and spent the minutes at the voting booth planning the day or something.

The main reason Bricker couldn't vote for right-wing Trump was worry about nuclear war with North Korea! But Trump is all chummy with Kim and hasn't even pushed the nuclear button once. If he'd known this, I imagine Bricker would have voted for Trump.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
The glorious orange one is thin skinned. Like a kumquat.
More gibberish from the guy afraid to answer simple questions. Got your doorknob fixed yet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Possibly because I am not them, don't frequent boards like that.
WTF are you talking about? You don't need to go to right-wing boards to witness unacceptable rants. Just read Trump's tweets.

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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
... What I would not have done is vote for someone morally bankrupt (like Hillary, or in this very case Trump) ...
I've listed a small number of Trump's moral failings. What did Hillary do that was comparable? Is it the sex slaves in the basement of the pizza parlor that have you in a tizzy?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: GUNS. I got denounced by the "hive mind" I am supposedly part of when I suggested that the extra thousand deaths monthly due to guns are irrelevant in the scheme of America's severe problems. I annoy the gun idiots when I ask about a hypothetical Second Amendment permitting "Walking naked upside-down down Main Street on Tuesday." (Would that injunction incite rage just as irrational as America's gun lust?)

Yet now we hear one Doper admit that guns are so important to him — is he cowardly? Is he so ashamed of his penis that he needs surrogates? — that he'll happily elect Trump instead of a Democrat who speaks of gun control.

God help us.
  #253  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
Then you must be a Trumpist, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about what someone else thinks of them.
I don't much worry what you say about Trumpists, but it gets conflated to ALL conservatives all the time.
If interested in actually seeing the truth, just follow along in this thread. My position has been consistently misinterpreted, folded, turned over, and strawman-ed to death.
All simply because I offered a differing view (hint: I have yet to defend Trump or anything remotely like that)

But he's angry, about something that someone once did on a different board and because he feels powerless there without all the support he garners here, he posts his vitriol here, where it WILL and HAS been supported.


Nah, no hive here.
  #254  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
You are supposedly middle of the road...but this board that is so left wing if disgusts you is the board you choose to frequent?
You masochist!
The board as a whole isn't so far left wing that I disagree with most of the board, or even find disgusting, just some of the board. Namely the crazy left wing peeps, you included.

I tend to find myself agreeing with Velocity often, and Bone, amongst a whole host of others. But its the you, and the BigT and septimuses of the board that drag it down into the fiery depths of lunacy.
  #255  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
The board as a whole isn't so far left wing that I disagree with most of the board, or even find disgusting, just some of the board. Namely the crazy left wing peeps, you included.

I tend to find myself agreeing with Velocity often, and Bone, amongst a whole host of others. But its the you, and the BigT and septimuses of the board that drag it down into the fiery depths of lunacy.
Clip and save the bolded for the next time you hear conservative titty babies on this board sobbing about how outnumbered they are (as if there is an entitlement to one-to-one representation on a free to sign up message board.)

Also, it appears that what drags this board into the "fiery depths of lunacy" (drama queen, much?) seems to be the existence on the board of people who disagree with you. Do you melt in the rain, cupcake?
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  #256  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
I don't much worry what you say about Trumpists, but it gets conflated to ALL conservatives all the time.
If interested in actually seeing the truth, just follow along in this thread. My position has been consistently misinterpreted, folded, turned over, and strawman-ed to death.
All simply because I offered a differing view (hint: I have yet to defend Trump or anything remotely like that)

But he's angry, about something that someone once did on a different board and because he feels powerless there without all the support he garners here, he posts his vitriol here, where it WILL and HAS been supported.


Nah, no hive here.
If you are referring to me I'm afraid you've badly misread my message. I wasn't posting out of anger, or anything like that, just wondering why you only seem concerned about how Trump supporters or conservatives are treated here. I was simply pointing out that this board isn't the entirety of existence, online or in the real world. It seems like a cop out to only be concerned about what you see here, in this small and insignificant corner of the internet, not what is broadcast on Fox news every day, or what is screeched on Twitter by our actual president constantly. Selective outrage is one of the biggest reasons we can't get along in this country politically. When you only get upset by things that go along with and confirm your pre-existing views, and ignore or handwave away anything that goes against your prevailing mindset, you only become further entrenched and it just serves to exacerbate our divisions.
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Last edited by Airbeck; 10-09-2019 at 08:14 AM.
  #257  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:13 AM
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The Trumper's park is melting
In the rain
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cupcake in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to fake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh, no!
  #258  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
You may be thinking of Bricker. In the tale he tells, actually casting a ballot in 2016 was very emotional, almost traumatic. He actually voted Trump, voided the ballot and returned to the worker for a new ballot before voting Clinton. This seemed quite odd: I thought Bricker was a thinker. A thinker would have already made a decision and spent the minutes at the voting booth planning the day or something.

The main reason Bricker couldn't vote for right-wing Trump was worry about nuclear war with North Korea! But Trump is all chummy with Kim and hasn't even pushed the nuclear button once. If he'd known this, I imagine Bricker would have voted for Trump.

...
Holy hell, and I was sitting here thinking the story I remembered was unlikely! "I voted for Trump, and, after validating my selections and leaving the voting booth, I went to the registration table, demanded that my ballot be cancelled, thereby allowing me to vote again" must have been something that happened so few times* that it's statistically unlikely... though not impossible!... that one of the few people who did such a thing would be a regular poster here.

(I was thinking it was Bricker, but didn't want to impugn his fine name.)

*I mean, what - 5 people had this same sequence of events in 2016? 10 people? It can't be that high, can it? OTOH, I would expect 2016 just fucking murdered the record for "what have I done?" votes in American history (on both sides!), so maybe this story was repeated more often than I would expect.
  #259  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:23 AM
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@ Kearsen1 :—
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
WTF are you talking about? You don't need to go to right-wing boards to witness unacceptable rants. Just read Trump's tweets.

I've listed a small number of Trump's moral failings. What did Hillary do that was comparable? Is it the sex slaves in the basement of the pizza parlor that have you in a tizzy?
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
But its the you, and the BigT and septimuses of the board that drag it down into the fiery depths of lunacy.
Lunacy? Fiery depths, no less?

Is this because I haven't condemned Hillary enslaving children in the pizza parlor?

Hint: It's anyone who considers the foibles of Hillary and Trump to be comparable that needs psychiatric help.
  #260  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Bzzzzzz!

So hiveling, the hive mind is not stale commentary. What’s stale is the million million threads on Trump. You redundant fools have no room to talk with regards to stale topics.
I take it you don't actually read those posts and assume they're all saying the same thing.

Let me ask you oc, what do you think all those anti-Trump posts are about? What are the typical topics as far as you know? Do you think those posters are merely complaining just cuz, or do you understand their grievances?
  #261  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:11 PM
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@ Kearsen1Read this article, come back and tell us what you think.




@ octopus — How do you like the Dallas Cowboys this season?
  #262  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:49 PM
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With this post I hope to engage Trump supporters in honest dialog. Comment on the link in the preceding post, and the link below. Honestly read them — don't just Google "Why does Sean Hannity hate The Atlantic magazine?" and think that tells you all you need to know.

And let's be very clear: Anyone who is not enthusiastically supporting any alternative to Trump is a "Trump supporter." Even if the alternative is a "democratic socialist", or [gasp!] someone who wants to make it harder for lunatics to own AR-15s.

The recent treacherous abandonment of the Kurds flabbergasts those of us who actually study geopolitics. But even before this, an article in The Atlantic tells us what a large number of top generals think about Trump. Read the whole article; I'll just give brief excerpts here.
Quote:
In 20 years of writing about the military, I have never heard officers in high positions express such alarm about a president. Trump’s pronouncements and orders have already risked catastrophic and unnecessary wars in the Middle East and Asia, and have created severe problems for field commanders engaged in combat operations. Frequently caught unawares by Trump’s statements, senior military officers have scrambled, in their aftermath, to steer the country away from tragedy. How many times can they successfully do that before faltering?

Amid threats spanning the globe, from nuclear proliferation to mined tankers in the Persian Gulf to terrorist attacks and cyberwarfare, those in command positions monitor the president’s Twitter feed like field officers scanning the horizon for enemy troop movements. A new front line in national defense has become the White House Situation Room, where the military struggles to accommodate a commander in chief who is both ignorant and capricious....

He threatened North Korea with “fire and fury” ...—then he pivoted to friendly summits with Kim Jong Un, with whom he announced he was “in love”; canceled long-standing U.S. military exercises with South Korea; and dangled the possibility of withdrawing American forces from the country altogether....

The generals I spoke with didn’t agree on everything, but they shared the following five characterizations of Trump’s military leadership.

I. HE DISDAINS EXPERTISE

Trump has little interest in the details of policy. He makes up his mind about a thing, and those who disagree with him—even those with manifestly more knowledge and experience—are stupid, or slow, or crazy....

II. HE TRUSTS ONLY HIS OWN INSTINCTS

Trump believes that his gut feelings about things are excellent, if not genius. Those around him encourage that belief, or they are fired....

III. HE RESISTS COHERENT STRATEGY

If there is any broad logic to Trump’s behavior, it’s Keep ’em confused. He believes that unpredictability itself is a virtue.

Keeping an enemy off-balance can be a good thing, the generals agreed, so long as you are not off-balance yourself. And it’s a tactic, not a strategy. Consider Trump’s rhetorical dance with the North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un....

IV. “HE IS REFLEXIVELY CONTRARY”

General H. R. McMaster, ... is about as can-do a professional as you will find. He appeared to take Trump seriously, and tailored his briefings to accommodate the president’s famous impatience, in order to equip him for the weighty decisions the office demands... the president let it be known that he found McMaster’s briefings tedious and the man himself “gruff and condescending.”

Distrusting expertise, Trump has contradicted and disparaged the intelligence community and presided over a dismantling of the State Department.

V. HE HAS A SIMPLISTIC AND ANTIQUATED NOTION OF SOLDIERING
Learn something about the man you vote for. Then our conversations here can be more intelligent.
  #263  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:56 PM
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If you are referring to me I'm afraid you've badly misread my message. I wasn't posting out of anger, or anything like that, just wondering why you only seem concerned about how Trump supporters or conservatives are treated here. I was simply pointing out that this board isn't the entirety of existence, online or in the real world. It seems like a cop out to only be concerned about what you see here, in this small and insignificant corner of the internet, not what is broadcast on Fox news every day, or what is screeched on Twitter by our actual president constantly. Selective outrage is one of the biggest reasons we can't get along in this country politically. When you only get upset by things that go along with and confirm your pre-existing views, and ignore or handwave away anything that goes against your prevailing mindset, you only become further entrenched and it just serves to exacerbate our divisions.
We missed each other entirely. I wasn't less concerned about the real world because I have concerns here. I dislike Trump, as a person and a President but if the rest of the folks were to believed here, I am a Trumpist ...
Me posting here is ME and you answering here is YOU talking to ME. The same goes for them (everyone jumping in with an opinion)

When others, maybe not you, interject what my motivations are for posting (Which repeatedly happened here by Czarcasm) and then go on to label and argue vs that label. It's inaccurate at best, and blatantly dishonest at worst. I am arguing against that blatant dishonesty, and honestly deserve an apology. Then it gets jumped on by a plethora of other posters, who seemingly argue the same way because hey why not, after all we ARE in the pit.

Do I really think I will get an apology? LOL, of course not. But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn't good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views.
  #264  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:11 PM
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But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn't good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views.
I think all we can do as individuals is ask ourselves what our contributions are. Are we helping solve the problem, or are we exacerbating it. Neither I nor you can control what anyone else says, but we can certainly control how we react to it, and whether we choose to continue the cycle. The only way out of this mess is for all of us to walk out of it ourselves. If we wait for everyone else to go first, nobody will ever move from where we are now.

Edited to add because pit: damnit
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Last edited by Airbeck; 10-09-2019 at 01:12 PM. Reason: forgot it was the pit
  #265  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:30 PM
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Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust.

Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
  #266  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
And let's be very clear: Anyone who is not enthusiastically supporting any alternative to Trump is a "Trump supporter." Even if the alternative is a "democratic socialist", or [gasp!] someone who wants to make it harder for lunatics to own AR-15s.
That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder.
  #267  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:33 PM
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Kurds are getting killed today in Syria because of him. Our allies are being left for dead. Our word is worthless now.

That is evil.

Sorry you feel personally attacked because you voted for this, but you did vote for this.
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  #268  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:34 PM
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And chew on this... The simplistic “I’d vote for anyone in the world but {insert name}” idiocy is how people like Trump get elected.
  #269  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder.
Which of the top five candidates would be worse than Trump? If you can't name any, which of the top ten?
  #270  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
Kurds are getting killed today in Syria because of him. Our allies are being left for dead. Our word is worthless now.

That is evil.

Sorry you feel personally attacked because you voted for this, but you did vote for this.
Yeah that news pissed me off. I wouldn’t trust America after that BS. The country can and should be a lot better than that.
  #271  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:38 PM
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Which of the top five candidates would be worse than Trump? If you can't name any, which of the top ten?
Sanders would be. I used to think a guy with crazy ideas that don’t work would be reined in by his handlers but after Trump I no longer believe that. He wants to do things that are financially impossible. I don’t have faith that Congress would get in the way of that.

ETA: At this point I’d support most Democratic front-runners though.

Last edited by Atamasama; 10-09-2019 at 01:41 PM.
  #272  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:40 PM
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Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust.

Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
Guess how much anyone here cares what you do or do not bitterly resent?
  #273  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:41 PM
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Sanders would be. I used to think a guy with crazy ideas that don’t work would be reined in by his handlers but after Trump I no longer believe that. He wants to do things that are financially impossible. I don’t have faith that Congress would get in the way of that.
Sanders would be ineffective because he wouldn't have the blind support Trump has.
  #274  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:54 PM
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That’s pure nonsense. I know a lot of Trump voters and not one is wishing for violence or a dictator.
Sure, sure. Yup yup.
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  #275  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:00 PM
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... Do I really think I will get an apology? LOL, of course not. But the divisiveness that some posters here create isn't good for any rational discourse between 2 opposing views.
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Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest?
@ Either one or both of you: — Suppose the Election were right now, Warren vs Trump. Which one do you vote for? (Suppose a genie tells you your vote will be the deciding vote.)

If you refuse to answer that, you're not serious about being understood.
  #276  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust.
Actually most men and women in Finland repudiated the holocaust and threw monkey wrenches to the death machinery when Germany demanded Jews to be deported, while Finland also opposed Stalin fiercely.

Point being here is that in reality you are making furious efforts to ignore the actual middle ground, that one that repudiates the current Republicans in power and makes efforts to get reasonable Republican people into positions of power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
As early in the administration and now shows, Trump's decision to virtually stop all refugees from coming to the USA leads to many deaths and many more will die by not allowing people that are suffering thanks to the incompetent buffoon to come to America.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 10-09-2019 at 02:09 PM.
  #277  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:17 PM
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Sanders would be ineffective because he wouldn't have the blind support Trump has.
I’d like to think so but like I said I’m worried about that.

I will say that if Biden or Warren are nominated, if nothing really awful comes out before the election they’d have my vote. Not an enthusiastic vote but an unhesitant one.
  #278  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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{...} To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about a laughably incompetent buffoon rather than the President of the world's only superpower.
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{...} Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. {...}
Why am I sure we won't read any compelling reasons for this rationalization?

CMC fnord!
  #279  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust.

Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
OK, sounds like you have a little buyer's remorse. This being the Pit, "morally bankrupt" is among many of the labels you're going to get. Plus, you haven't answered my questions, so you're either unwilling or uncaring. Your only justification for supporting Trump as far as I can tell was you didn't want Hillary, and thought she'd be a disaster on the level of Stalin. You invented a worst-case scenario where Hillary would stand on a mound of confiscated guns and aborted fetuses and force everybody to embrace liberal values. You let yourself be swept by hyperbolic conservative tactics designed to intimidate voters into taking their side, lest they have their lives upended by liberal elite communist socialist homosexual race-mixing tax and spenders.

Everybody gets conned at one time or another and don't want to admit it. This was no Stalin or Hitler scenario. This was a con man who told you everything you wanted to hear. He didn't double-speak like politicians usually do, and his message was simple. You saw him on TV a few times and thought it'd be fun to have him rule the country. You believed all the horror stories about Hillary. I used to support Nixon in my youth for the same reason. So did enough voters to have him win the '72 election in a landslide. Then Watergate ensued and we saw how much he conned us. Yes, it hurts your pride, but life goes on and you become a little more wary of con artists. We just don't want a repeat experience.

We can at least vote him out of office. We could have voted Hillary out too if she didn't perform as expected. Stalin and Hitler supporters didn't have that option.
  #280  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:40 PM
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Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have.
A real suck is less serious than an imaginary one. Gotcha.

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I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ.
There are plenty more reasons than that for you being called morally bankrupt.
  #281  
Old 10-09-2019, 02:49 PM
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@ Either one or both of you: — Suppose the Election were right now, Warren vs Trump. Which one do you vote for? (Suppose a genie tells you your vote will be the deciding vote.)

If you refuse to answer that, you're not serious about being understood.
I'd probably vote Warren after research.
  #282  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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I'd probably vote Warren after research.
Research into what, exactly? Not that there is anything wrong with research.

I'm curious what you feel you don't yet know about Warren in contrast to what you already know about Trump.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 10-09-2019 at 03:34 PM.
  #283  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:49 PM
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HE DISDAINS EXPERTISE
So did Henry Ford, which led to this fiasco.
  #284  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:09 PM
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I was having a conversation with a close relative the other day that I found enlightening, at least with regard to the current conservative psyche.
I asked him if he thought there were any hard lines the "good guys" should never cross. And he basically said, not really. He said that it's all nice and well to have ethics in a world where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya, but in the real world, you do what you have to do in America's best interests. Even if it means lowering yourself to "their" level.
After several minutes of debate, and some hemming and hawing, he came up with a line: genocide. As in, if there's a village full of civilians, you can't just bomb them because you don't like their face. If there's a better reason to bomb them, though, like there's terrorists hiding out in the village, kaboom away.

Convince yourself that having Agent Orange around is the best thing for the country, and with that mindset you really could overlook him shooting a guy on Fifth Avenue.
Update: screwing over the Kurds is also bad. Bad enough that over breakfast, unasked, he complained about Trump being an impulsive idiot who abandoned our allies, even though the Republicans were asking him not to. He didn't even try to troll me about it. I didn't press the issue, but having him admit that the Orange One could do anything wrong is a baby step in the right direction.
CORRECTION, following another convo with said relative: he'd like to make it known that I somewhat misrepsensented his opinion. He's not sure there's any lines a nation shouldn't cross in SELF-DEFENSE. With a somewhat broad understanding of "self-defense".
  #285  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:08 PM
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Sure, sure. Yup yup.
How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence?

Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies?
  #286  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:31 AM
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I've never supported Trump; I just didn't want to see Hillary Clinton push her gun ban agenda.
Remember when Wayne LaPierre said Obama's "low-key approach to gun rights during his first term was" a "conspiracy to ensure re-election by lulling gun owners to sleep."

"All that first term, lip service to gun owners is just part of a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment during his second term," he said.

Obama won his second term. And yet, he didn't take any guns.

A person who is not an idiot might realize by now they were being duped by conmen who played on their emotional attachment to guns. Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, "no really, this time they're gonna take mah guns!" How many times are you going to get fooled?

All of them?

So tell me, are you always this gullible or are you just not smart enough to figure out you've been lied to repeatedly? You could be both dumb and gullible, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt right now that you're only one of those things.

Which is it?
  #287  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:02 AM
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How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence?

Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies?
I do not know many Trump supporters personally. (I live on the wrong continent for those).
However I have seen footage of Trump promising rewards/support to people using violence against people protesting him. I've seen Trump call right-wing extremists "Good people" after they just attacked and killed a counter-protester :How many people have been killed by Antifa? Which recent Mass-shooter left an Anti-Trump manifesto?

You are not looking at a very complete picture if you are calling those who oppose Trump "violent". By comparison they are positively pacifist.

"But THEY are so violent" is a really dumb talking point for Trump supporters. but it sure fits the pattern of accusing others of your own crimes.
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  #288  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:29 AM
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That’s stupid bullshit. Trump is in my mind the worst president ever elected in the US (except maybe Jackson, he was literally committing genocide on American soil) but you’re a pitiful moron to insist that if you don’t support putting anyone in the White House aside from Trump then you support him. You insist that anyone would be better. Do you have any idea how frothing-mouthed, batshit crazy that sounds? Do you go outside and yell at birds about Trump? Holy shit. I know Trump Derangement Syndrome is garbage made up by the right to demonize people opposed to The Don but you make me wonder.
A list of the two persons who would be the worst possible choices for POTUS consists of ME and the America-hating fuckstick currently befouling the Oval Office.

An assertion that objective reality proclaims ME as being the better of the two choices is NOT crazy. It’s objective reality.
  #289  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:08 AM
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How many Trump supporters do you know? Have they advocated violence?

Are they as intimidating as your Ontario granny-in-a-walker Antifa bullies?
I do like the way you ask how many violent Trump supporters he personally knows, then link to an example of two people you presumably have never met.

I only personally know two Trump supporters who make violent threats about people they disagree with, but I only know 4 Trump supporters in real life. Not surprising for someone who doesn't live in America, as let's be honest Trump's demographic don't really travel that much. Certainly I'd hesitate to draw a conclusion from such a small data set.

However using your logic of referencing people in the news as examples, how about Eric Lin ("I Thank God everyday President Donald John Trump is President"), Dallas Frazier, John Kless, Matthew Haviland ("all Democrats must be slaughtered"), Patrick Carlineo ("declared in an interview “that he was a patriot, that he loves the president, and that he hates radical Muslims in our government”"), Randal Thom (member of the “Trump’s Front Row Joes” supporters group, has travelled to dozens of the president’s rallies"), Michael Brogan (threatened to kill a US senator for criticizing Trump ), James Patrick (described himself as a “Trump Militant Conservative” called for the enslavement of “not just blacks but ALL liberals”), Cesar Sayoc ( living in a van plastered with pro-Trump stickers, pleadedguilty to 65 felony charges including using weapons of mass destruction in an attempted domestic terrorist attack)...

...I can go on if you want, as it's disturbingly easy to find examples of Trump supporters with very violent tendencies. In fairness I did a search for examples of a Bernie Sanders supporter going violent, and the only example I could find was from 2 years ago and appears to be a complete one off. This would suggest quite strongly that one side has more of an issue than the other.
  #290  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:46 AM
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I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ.
Did the snowflake have his feelings hurt? I'm sure the Kurds feel bad for you.
  #291  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:48 AM
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Research into what, exactly? Not that there is anything wrong with research.

I'm curious what you feel you don't yet know about Warren in contrast to what you already know about Trump.
Whether or not I align with her politics vs any other candidate. I would literally put them side by side along with any other options.

I may very well end up voting third party, given that option. I would most assuredly vote against Donald in a Primary, which won't happen.

Warren or Biden , at the moment, are clearly to me the sanest of the candidates that the Democrats might put forth but I would still want to know more.

Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, gun toting American.
  #292  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:56 AM
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I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ.
Fuck your feelings, you whiny little snowflake. This forum isn’t a safe space.
  #293  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:34 AM
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Whether or not I align with her politics vs any other candidate. I would literally put them side by side along with any other options.

I may very well end up voting third party, given that option. I would most assuredly vote against Donald in a Primary, which won't happen.

Warren or Biden , at the moment, are clearly to me the sanest of the candidates that the Democrats might put forth but I would still want to know more.

Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, gun toting American.
Assume whoever is the Dem nominee, they will likely take a much more pro-gun-control platform than the current administration and Republican controlled senate. Assume also that they will advocate for the kinds of policies that 90% of Americans currently support and that McConnell is currently holding up from a senate vote.
Assume that fiscal policies will be in line with the Obama administration as far as ACA, environment and energy policies, fiscal/consumer protection policies, TPP trade policies, etc... (Free tuition and universal healthcare are off the table.)

I feel like those are reasonably safe and realistic assumptions to make.

Given the above, and knowing what you know about Trump, are you or are you not ruling out the possibility that you will vote for him in the 2020 election?

I appreciate your direct and honest response.
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  #294  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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Fuck your feelings, you whiny little snowflake. This forum isn’t a safe space.
I agree, but even I'm slightly triggered by your aggressive tone.






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  #295  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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Was it hypocritical for people to insist they weren't "Hitler supporters" just because they didn't want Stalin and his NKVD to establish totalitarian communism in eastern Europe by conquest? Even when all middle grounds were no longer possible and those were the only two realistic options left? By that standard every man and woman in Finland abetted the Holocaust.

Sometimes all you get to choose is which way the world is going to suck. For me personally, a Trump victory sucked less than a Hillary victory would have. I bitterly resent being told that that means I am morally bankrupt because TRUMP IS THE EVULZ. To hear some on this board describe it, one would think we were talking about Sauron rather than a laughably incompetent buffoon.
What you and every other Trump voter has exhibited is, in the very least, inexcusably poor judgment.

Especially that asshole Shodan. Who should fucking well know better.
  #296  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:30 AM
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Assume whoever is the Dem nominee, they will likely take a much more pro-gun-control platform than the current administration and Republican controlled senate. Assume also that they will advocate for the kinds of policies that 90% of Americans currently support and that McConnell is currently holding up from a senate vote.
Assume that fiscal policies will be in line with the Obama administration as far as ACA, environment and energy policies, fiscal/consumer protection policies, TPP trade policies, etc... (Free tuition and universal healthcare are off the table.)

I feel like those are reasonably safe and realistic assumptions to make.

Given the above, and knowing what you know about Trump, are you or are you not ruling out the possibility that you will vote for him in the 2020 election?

I appreciate your direct and honest response.
I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner.
Limited government is an ideal I do not hold lightly and from all the stuff you expected the Obama admin to do lines up with future Democrat admin, I doubt I could vote that way. Given that I would vote for Obama over Trump TODAY, but I'd rather have a Clinton or even a Bush back.

Editted to add: I didn't vote for Trump the last time, nor would I this go round.

Last edited by Kearsen1; 10-10-2019 at 10:32 AM.
  #297  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:38 AM
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I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner.
Limited government is an ideal I do not hold lightly and from all the stuff you expected the Obama admin to do lines up with future Democrat admin, I doubt I could vote that way. Given that I would vote for Obama over Trump TODAY, but I'd rather have a Clinton or even a Bush back.
Yeah, it's easy to give a solid commitment to choices you know you will never have to make. If I get you right about the actual choice to be made, you intend to abdicate your responsibility as a voter by foolishly asserting that both sides are equally abhorrent and not voting.
  #298  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:45 AM
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I honestly do not know, I may likely not vote at all if no one gets any closer to my ideals and those limits kind of paint me in a corner. {...}
Good to know that your 'ideals' include four more years with Trump as President.

CMC fnord!
  #299  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:52 AM
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Good to know that your 'ideals' include four more years with Trump as President.

CMC fnord!
Tell you what, whether or not you decide to Primary someone electable or not is not my responsibility.

But hey, I am open to compromise. Let's vote in Gary Johnson and we can both be winners!
  #300  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:53 AM
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Yeah, it's easy to give a solid commitment to choices you know you will never have to make. If I get you right about the actual choice to be made, you intend to abdicate your responsibility as a voter by foolishly asserting that both sides are equally abhorrent and not voting.
And this is more just crazy straw as it's a good thing I will have more than 2 choices ...
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