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  #12301  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:00 PM
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Solid post; I agree.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:41 PM
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Something else that I wanted to add, needed to add.

Economic systems are political systems, and political systems are economic systems. The growing wealth and income inequality in our society should make one thing abundantly clear: there is not just a growing wealth imbalance, there is a growing power imbalance. The tendency isn't for this imbalance to correct itself. As the wealth/power gap increases, the tendency is for the wealthy (the power class) to do more to guard its wealth and its power. This tendency will outlive Trump because the wealth and power gap is being protected not only by Trump but by the GOP, which has become almost entirely hijacked by these special interests. They will continue to use divide-and-conquer tactics, engage in information warfare, and corrupt institutions - that will happen whether Trump is impeached and removed or not.
  #12303  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
What has he won, again?
The argument that Trump was going to be a greater magnitude of Total Shitshow than the usual run of Republican presidents.
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  #12304  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:14 PM
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The argument that Trump was going to be a greater magnitude of Total Shitshow than the usual run of Republican presidents.
I think everyone knew he was going to be a shitshow, but we disagreed on the reasons. Most of the people who've attacked me knew Trump was a shitshow in the making, but they assumed it was because he was an intellectual pygmy and that he would be catastrophically incompetent - I don't disagree with that assessment at all, btw.

But what I - and others like Thelmalou, like Snowboarder Bo, K9Befriender, and others - have also believed is that Trump represented an extremely dangerous turn in American politics, and one that might ultimately prove fatal to democracy.

Inevitably, if you believed that Trump was just a meandering dolt who would quit (remember that idea? Seems like a long time ago now) - if you believed that, then the idea that Trump was dangerous seemed comical, farcical, and if exposed to that refrain too often, understandably, some posters might have felt inclined to intervene and shut me up.

What I've tried to get across is that Trump might be as dumb as a doorknob in terms of knowing about economics and how the political system works, but he's not dumb when it comes to manipulation. Sociopaths are typically pretty good in that department. Moreover, American democracy itself has been afflicted with a potentially fatal tandem of cynicism, ignorance, and indifference. It's this social virus that got him elected in the first place, and what does it say about a political culture when his highest approval rating was registered on the same day that Republicans successfully completed a scam trial long after Trump's blatant corruption had been exposed?

As I said in an earlier post, the first step in getting rid of this Trump problem, this GOP problem is to make sure that everyone understand what the problem is, and just how dangerous it is. Fear is perhaps an appropriate emotion at this time, but an even more appropriate emotion is rage. I'm fucking livid, my blood is boiling at anyone - and I mean anyone - who knowingly (and maybe even unknowingly) supports what the GOP stands for and I'm not going to pretend I'm not. There comes a time when people have to say, I'm not accepting this shit under any circumstances.

Last edited by asahi; 02-14-2020 at 12:15 PM.
  #12305  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:31 PM
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To follow up on what I said above. Anyone remember Martin O'Malley? It's old news, but I got a kick out of reading this a few weeks ago (hadn't heard about it until then):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ebb_story.html

Quote:
Siobhan Arnold, who was visiting from Philadelphia, had just met O’Malley at the bar when Cuccinelli walked in. Soon the two men were face-to-face, she said, with O’Malley excoriating Cuccinelli over the Trump administration’s immigration policies.
Yeah, Ken thought he could just walk out on the town and enjoy a drink, with a dash of some civility and expect that people would distinguish Cuccinelli the individual versus the disgusting public servant. Apparently, O'Malley was havin' none of it.

Quote:
O’Malley said “something about his [Cuccinelli’s] grandparents,” Arnold said in an interview. Cuccinelli said little if anything in reply, she added, quickly leaving the area.
Nothing like reminding a neo-Nazi that his grandparents were once in a concentration camp - I don't mean that literally (Cuccinelli is Italian, AFAIK, but you get the analogy).

Quote:
“O’Malley was shouting,” Arnold said. “I don’t think Cuccinelli was responding. I think he’s like, ‘Time to go. Just got here and I’m leaving.’ He pretty much retreated.”
Yep, this is what needs to happen. This isn't how we should treat any and everyone who voted for Trump, but if people are going to go out and wear Trumpism on their sleeve or if someone wants to profit from and make a professional career out of wearing Trump's jersey on the taxpayer dime...fuck that guy. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. I will gladly say it to that guy's face. I'm older and just don't give a fuck anymore.
  #12306  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:32 PM
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Not really. I'm horrified.

But my thinking all along - not just here but with people I rant off on in real life - is that before the problem of Trumpism can be fixed, it has to be first understood and appreciated for the danger that it is.

Over and over again, I've found that a lot of the people who voted for Trump don't necessarily like him as a person, but they believe that as long as he's delivering their goods, then his character doesn't matter.

On the progressive side, there has been this arrogant assumption that facts will matter, that if the public can see more facts, they will be persuaded. No, that's how academic, epistemology-driven people see the world, but that's not how a lot of humanity does. A fact is a fact - a fact cannot change. But how people can interpret and perceive facts can change from one person to the next. One set of facts can lead to many "truths."

Facts aren't going to defeat Trumpism. They will simply will not. The only thing that will defeat him is when enough people aren't scared of him, but are fucking infuriated at him - and not just him but the festering pustules Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and the entire GOP. And that absolutely includes his enablers, from Susan Collins to John Kelly. When the people wake up and the reckoning finally comes, I want absolutely no mother fucking mercy for any of these animals.

And I will dehumanize them - I will dehumanize them because they fucking deserve to be, and if anyone reading this doesn't think that way, then honestly, you can fuck yourself too. We have to get to the point where we are fucking pissed. Where we are uncontrollably outraged. We're past the point of just fixing the rot to our society with a midterm election and a gridlocked government. We are experiencing an all out assault not only on our government, but on our collective senses and our way of life. There - must - be - no - fucking - mercy. None.

As I've said repeatedly, rage is good. This country was founded on it, and if it doesn't find its inner Thomas Jefferson soon, it's going to kiss 2 centuries and change of manifest destiny and self-government goodbye.
"Manifest destiny?"

ISTM that the contiguous 48 states are already ours. Unless you're hinting that we should start annexing portions of British Columbia and/or maybe Baja California...
  #12307  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:12 PM
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They know what they did!
  #12308  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:25 PM
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Pushing around America like that! We won't take it, nosiree!
  #12309  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
"Manifest destiny?"

ISTM that the contiguous 48 states are already ours. Unless you're hinting that we should start annexing portions of British Columbia and/or maybe Baja California...
I'm saying that the United States could dissolve.

Consider how Trump is using federal power to punish states that didn't vote for him, and that Republicans seem to be chuckling over it. Right now, the actions seem symbolic and the repercussions minimal, but if it continues into another 4-year Trump term, with threats of federal funds being withheld for urgent situations (i.e. wildfires and so forth) the ire would be palpable. There would be at least talk of secession.

There would inevitable be threats of secession from within California's borders as well. I wouldn't laugh at the possibilities, either. Secession, just like authoritarianism, is going to become more and more of a thing, not just here but globally.
  #12310  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'm saying that the United States could dissolve.

Consider how Trump is using federal power to punish states that didn't vote for him, and that Republicans seem to be chuckling over it. Right now, the actions seem symbolic and the repercussions minimal, but if it continues into another 4-year Trump term, with threats of federal funds being withheld for urgent situations (i.e. wildfires and so forth) the ire would be palpable. There would be at least talk of secession.

There would inevitable be threats of secession from within California's borders as well. I wouldn't laugh at the possibilities, either. Secession, just like authoritarianism, is going to become more and more of a thing, not just here but globally.
What's any of that got to do with 'Manifest Destiny'?
What do you think 'Manifest Destiny' means, asahi? Enthrall us with your acumen.

CMC fnord!
  #12311  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:49 PM
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fnord!

Last edited by crowmanyclouds; 02-14-2020 at 03:50 PM.
  #12312  
Old 02-14-2020, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I think everyone knew he was going to be a shitshow, but we disagreed on the reasons. Most of the people who've attacked me knew Trump was a shitshow in the making, but they assumed it was because he was an intellectual pygmy and that he would be catastrophically incompetent - I don't disagree with that assessment at all, btw.

But what I - and others like Thelmalou, like Snowboarder Bo, K9Befriender, and others - have also believed is that Trump represented an extremely dangerous turn in American politics, and one that might ultimately prove fatal to democracy.

Inevitably, if you believed that Trump was just a meandering dolt who would quit (remember that idea? Seems like a long time ago now) - if you believed that, then the idea that Trump was dangerous seemed comical, farcical, and if exposed to that refrain too often, understandably, some posters might have felt inclined to intervene and shut me up.

What I've tried to get across is that Trump might be as dumb as a doorknob in terms of knowing about economics and how the political system works, but he's not dumb when it comes to manipulation. Sociopaths are typically pretty good in that department. Moreover, American democracy itself has been afflicted with a potentially fatal tandem of cynicism, ignorance, and indifference. It's this social virus that got him elected in the first place, and what does it say about a political culture when his highest approval rating was registered on the same day that Republicans successfully completed a scam trial long after Trump's blatant corruption had been exposed?

As I said in an earlier post, the first step in getting rid of this Trump problem, this GOP problem is to make sure that everyone understand what the problem is, and just how dangerous it is. Fear is perhaps an appropriate emotion at this time, but an even more appropriate emotion is rage. I'm fucking livid, my blood is boiling at anyone - and I mean anyone - who knowingly (and maybe even unknowingly) supports what the GOP stands for and I'm not going to pretend I'm not. There comes a time when people have to say, I'm not accepting this shit under any circumstances.
Another solid post; again: I agree.
  #12313  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
What's any of that got to do with 'Manifest Destiny'?
What do you think 'Manifest Destiny' means, asahi? Enthrall us with your acumen.

CMC fnord!
What the fuck are you doing wasting time tearing down someone who is on your side, cmc?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-14-2020 at 04:03 PM.
  #12314  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:11 PM
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There would inevitable be threats of secession from within California's borders as well. I wouldn't laugh at the possibilities, either. Secession, just like authoritarianism, is going to become more and more of a thing, not just here but globally.
Shoot, California secession would make everybody happy: Californians and MAGAts alike. The only losers would be rational people in the other 49 states.
  #12315  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
What the fuck are you doing wasting time tearing down someone who is on your side, cmc?
Because it wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

CMC fnord!

Last edited by crowmanyclouds; 02-14-2020 at 04:19 PM.
  #12316  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
What's any of that got to do with 'Manifest Destiny'?
What do you think 'Manifest Destiny' means, asahi? Enthrall us with your acumen.

CMC fnord!
Nothing, nothing at all. I confess: I used the term Manifest Destiny because I have no idea what it means. I think I heard someone talk about it on the radio once.

  #12317  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:11 PM
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What the fuck are you doing wasting time tearing down someone who is on your side, cmc?
He wants to impress you with his "acumen."
  #12318  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:42 PM
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He wants to impress you with his "acumen."
Isn't acumen some kind of spice used in cooking?
  #12319  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:39 PM
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Isn't acumen some kind of spice used in cooking?
I don't know, why don't you ask that nut, Meg?

p.s. Yes, I'm horrible at puns - I'll stop.
  #12320  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:55 PM
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I don't know, why don't you ask that nut, Meg?

p.s. Yes, I'm horrible at puns - I'll stop.
Sage decision. Good thyming.
  #12321  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:57 PM
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Sage decision. Good thyming.
I cilantro what you did there.
  #12322  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:42 PM
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Nothing, nothing at all. I confess: I used the term Manifest Destiny because I have no idea what it means. I think I heard someone talk about it on the radio once.

For anyone curious, Manifest Destiny was the belief in the innate superiority of white American settlers, and that their destiny was to occupy and control all of America from coast to coast, at a time when much of the west was still 'Indian territory'. it was big in the early to mid 1850's, and used to justify all sorts of shitty actions against the 'savages' that occupied the land.
  #12323  
Old 02-14-2020, 08:51 PM
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Nothing, nothing at all. I confess: I used the term Manifest Destiny because I have no idea what it means. I think I heard someone talk about it on the radio once.


You seriously had no idea what the term manifest destiny, one of the major excuses given for the conquest of North America from coast-to-coast over the last two centuries, means?
  #12324  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:42 PM
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You seriously had no idea what the term manifest destiny, one of the major excuses given for the conquest of North America from coast-to-coast over the last two centuries, means?
I had absolutely no idea at all. I just write random shit. Like, I could have just as easily written:

As I've said repeatedly, rage is good. This country was founded on it, and if it doesn't find its inner Thomas Payne soon, it's going to kiss 2 centuries and change of slavery, Jim Crow and self-government goodbye.

But, like, who was Jim Crow?
  #12325  
Old 02-15-2020, 02:31 AM
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For anyone curious, Manifest Destiny was the belief in the innate superiority of white American settlers, and that their destiny was to occupy and control all of America from coast to coast, at a time when much of the west was still 'Indian territory'. it was big in the early to mid 1850's, and used to justify all sorts of shitty actions against the 'savages' that occupied the land.
It also sounded better in the original German, Lebensraum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye, Watering View Post
Isn't acumen some kind of spice used in cooking?
It the go to spice for fava beans, doesn't clash with the Chianti.

CMC fnord!
  #12326  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:45 AM
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asahi - I've always pretty much agreed with you. A little shrill at times. But really, shrill ain't enough at this point.

And what we a looking at is 'Dumb shit destiny'. Bunch of morons are leading a bunch of morons. The outcome is... predictable.

That's about the nicest way I can put it.
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  #12327  
Old 02-15-2020, 01:16 PM
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It also sounded better in the original German, Lebensraum.

CMC fnord!
That joke would work better if the term “manifest destiny” hadn’t been coined some fifty-five years earlier than “Lebensraum.”

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 02-15-2020 at 01:18 PM.
  #12328  
Old 02-15-2020, 02:01 PM
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That joke would work better if the term “manifest destiny” hadn’t been coined some fifty-five years earlier than “Lebensraum.”
True, but it begs the question* 'Do they even know that much history?'
*Not to be confused with the actual logical fallacy.

CMC fnord!
  #12329  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:41 PM
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A court ruled it cannot compel Don McGahn to testify over potential obstruction of justice related to Mueller case. 2-1 decision on ideological lines.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...b6beedb4eb11f3
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