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  #51  
Old 04-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak View Post
I was going to call you out on the "human element" by reiterating RickJay's point about the game not being about the officials.... but I won't. I actually agree with you.

Video replay, particularly slow motion, has made it so that officials can "zapruder" the play to find the smallest scrap of technically correct information to support a call that would never have been made in the 100+ year history of the sport. Sports are entertainment, what's entertaining about that?

It's not that it's OK to have wrong calls, but calls that are made by humans should only be held to the standard that they should appear correct when viewed with the unaided eye.
Agreed. On stolen bases especially. For 100+ years, if the ball beat the runner and the runner did not obviously avoid the tag, then the runner was out. Now, we get to look at three different angles to see if a finger came in beside the tag.

Then we get the altogether new "out" call in that situation where the infielder holds the ball on the runner if he is safe and we analyze whether we can see one single frame of video where the runners hand came off of the base before he put his foot on it.

That is not merely taking the human element or mistakes out of officiating, but creating a new standard of safe/out which is imperceptible to the naked eye. That was not what replay was sold as. It was only supposed to be for the "worst of the worst" calls.
  #52  
Old 04-18-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hilarity N. Suze View Post
I think what you might be looking for is a foot fault of the center line. This is rarely called because it's an invisible extension of the centerline (and if a ref called one of these at match point I think it would be a legitimate for the server to protest, loudly). It's hard to believe McEnroe wouldn't be aware of this rule, that you have to be on the correct side of the court as well as behind the service line, but it's perfectly understandable if he's never seen it called, either when he was a player or when he was a commentator.
I don't think I've ever seen that being called as a foot fault. I can't really see why anyone would complain if it was called though, it should be fairly easy to tell if the server is standing over where the line would be (I'm assuming we're talking line 6 here) unless they're well behind the baseline which would be unusual.

https://www.meonuk.com/tennis-court-line-marking
  #53  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:20 PM
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FINA rule D.8.5.4 states that any dive that is judged to be too close to the platform or springboard shall be awarded a maximum of 2 points. I think it's an excellent rule for safety, but I never see it called.
  #54  
Old 04-23-2019, 12:57 PM
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I've also been attending many AAA games for years with the 30 second timer. When it first started I did see a few pitchers called for violating it.
I was at my first AAA game of the season and something happened that made me think of this thread.

At one point after the pitcher came set the batter raised his hand, asked for time, and stepped out of the box. The umpire ignored him, the pitcher delivered the pitch, and the umpire called it a... Ball. It would have been a better story I guess if the batter had struck out or something, but the pitch was outside and was called a ball.

This is one of the first times I think I've seen Rule 6.02(b) applied.

The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes to Set Position, or starts his windup.
PENALTY: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call “Ball” or “Strike,” as the case may be.

As for the pitch clock they went to a 15 second pitch clock this year and boy did that game fly by. You could tell the difference as the pitcher would get the ball back from the catcher and immediately toe the rubber and come set. They played a 9 inning 7-6 game with 17 hits and 4 pitching changes in about 2:15.
  #55  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:01 PM
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Soccer in Europe and almost anywhere not in the USA (and they may do it too).... generally the ref will only blow the final whistle once the last dramatic attack has ended. There are exceptions of course, but generally the refs will do this. Thats like in basketball if there was only one second left and the refs didnt start the timer til somebody got off a last shot.
  #56  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Soccer in Europe and almost anywhere not in the USA (and they may do it too).... generally the ref will only blow the final whistle once the last dramatic attack has ended. There are exceptions of course, but generally the refs will do this. Thats like in basketball if there was only one second left and the refs didnt start the timer til somebody got off a last shot.
This bugs me in amateur soccer as a goalkeeper. I want the ref to call time properly and stop the opposing team's attack when time has run out!

Last edited by Velocity; 04-23-2019 at 02:08 PM.
  #57  
Old 04-24-2019, 01:41 AM
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This bugs me in amateur soccer as a goalkeeper. I want the ref to call time properly and stop the opposing team's attack when time has run out!
I think - at least partly - this convention is to stop something like the Clive Thomas controversy happening again:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ico-and-brazil

Quote:
With six seconds of stoppage time played, Clive Thomas blew his whistle a moment before Zico scored to beat Sweden – a decision which reverberated around the world
  #58  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:59 AM
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Given that soccer doesn't have an "accurate to the second" game time remaining clock visible to the players, this is one of the things I *like* about the way the game is officiated. No idea what, if any, rule support there is for the custom though.
  #59  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:55 AM
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I agree that officials are asked to do the nearly impossible, and technology and video review is exacerbating that pressure. Frankly, though, I’m still okay with a little bit of the “human element” coming into play with officiating, especially when the encroachment of technology starts to have an adverse effect on the enjoyment of watching a game (video reviews can really mess with the pace and the viewing experience of football and, increasingly, baseball).
I agree that video replay is simply too slow right now. To be perfectly honest, I really do not understand why reviews take as long as they do; 99 times out of 100, I, sitting at home, can tell from the first one or two replays, in under 30 seconds, whether the call should stand or not. How MLB doesn't have half a dozen people with sharper eyes watching many angles simultaneously on big monitors once a review is called for, I really don't understand. They have the budget. Waiting three-five minutes to fix a call is just terrible.

To my mind, though, using Statcast or PitchFX or whatever it is now to call balls and strikes would not delay the game. It would if anything speed it up just by not having bitching and moaning and arguing over balls and strikes. Furthermore, it's the biggest improvement you could make to the fairness of the officiating. Blowing a call on a stolen base is bad, but honestly in the grand scheme of things it doesn't happen that often and rarely affects the outcomes of a game. A dozen or more blown ball/strike calls happen in every game, and an umpire having a bad game can blow two dozen or more, and they are not distributed equally in a game or even over the course of many games. The game is decided in the strike zone and it shouldn't be decided by the ump if a better system could be implemented.

The comparison I often go to here is professional tennis. Tennis is a MUCH better officiated sport, and has been for a long time, I would assume because it just isn't as tired to "let's do it this way because we always have" and a strong, irritating official's union. Tennis uses far more officials despite being played in a much smaller space; a major championship match has ELEVEN judges, plus the guys in the booth watching the computers. They do this simply because it makes sense to have people watching every possible angle. Then as soon as the technology was available they started using it because it is simply the case that humans can't make all those calls perfectly; they started using Cyclops to judge close serve calls in the late 70s or early 80s, and have been using even more advanced systems for all kinds of close calls for a few years now, because getting it right is what matters to them. A tennis match, however, seems to move along very nicely, and if anything electronic judging has sped things up because there aren't as many arguments as there used to be. John McEnroe couldn't do today when he did 35 years ago because he would have no one to insult.
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  #60  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Given that soccer doesn't have an "accurate to the second" game time remaining clock visible to the players, this is one of the things I *like* about the way the game is officiated. No idea what, if any, rule support there is for the custom though.
Added time is almost completely at the discretion of the ref. There's no "don't stop an attack in progress" direction in the official laws, but it's within the stated powers of the ref to extend added time for that reason.
  #61  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:30 AM
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I believe RickJay is entirely correct re: automated pitch-calling. That's exactly the job for high tech systems and the decision will be immediate. Let the human bean behind the plate decide the other stuff; did the batter swing or check it? Was he hit by the pitch or did he make an inadequate attempt to avoid it? But in determining whether or not the ball nicked the strike zone, a zone that will not change from AB to AB or even pitch to pitch, machines should be able to outperform man by a lot.
  #62  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Wiggler View Post
I believe RickJay is entirely correct re: automated pitch-calling. That's exactly the job for high tech systems and the decision will be immediate. Let the human bean behind the plate decide the other stuff; did the batter swing or check it? Was he hit by the pitch or did he make an inadequate attempt to avoid it? But in determining whether or not the ball nicked the strike zone, a zone that will not change from AB to AB or even pitch to pitch, machines should be able to outperform man by a lot.
I agree 100%. You’ll still need a plate ump but not for strike zone calls.
  #63  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:23 AM
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You could let the ump signal the balls and strikes, too. Just put one of those things in his ears like they use on Impractical Jokers. It'll still look like he's making the call.
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  #64  
Old 04-25-2019, 09:50 AM
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Steee-rriikke?
  #65  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
You could let the ump signal the balls and strikes, too. Just put one of those things in his ears like they use on Impractical Jokers. It'll still look like he's making the call.
“And the ump is signaling to hold the pitching, it seems he’s having audio problems.”

Still worth it.
  #66  
Old 04-26-2019, 03:50 PM
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That's the only reason Don Drysdale got his scoreless innings record. He hit Giants batter Dick Dietz and the umps decided suddenly to enforce that rule which prevented a run from scoring with the bases loaded. It was rigged.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...z30-story.html
Giancarlo Stanton’s gruesome face injury a few years ago was another instance - it was called a strike because he was judged to have offered at the ball that hit him in the face. Doug Mientkiewicz had a similar experience while playing for the Yankees - the umpire loudly shouted “no, you stay here!” when he started to trot to first.
  #67  
Old 05-08-2019, 04:49 PM
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I think - at least partly - this convention is to stop something like the Clive Thomas controversy happening again:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ico-and-brazil
Tottenham just beat Ajax today to advance to the Champions League Final.........on a goal that was literally one second past the time stoppage time should have ended. (90+5, the goal was scored at +5:01.)
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