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Old 04-23-2019, 06:58 AM
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Wolfenstein 3 - The new Colossus - utterly dreadful


I recently played Doom on my Switch and that was a fine bit of nonsense, reasonably diverting and entertaining with a combat system slick enough to pass the time. Having finished it I decided to get the new Wolfenstein.

This was an error. I should have researched it a little more thoroughly.

Christ, when exactly did people decide that the cut-scenes and "acting" need to take up most of the bloody game? I don't want to know anything about the character's back-story. It interests me not one jot. I want to shoot nazi's in the face with as few interruptions as possible.

I couldn't even get started for 15 minutes while it spooled it's way through some ham-fisted bollocks or other about an abusive father, a jewish mother, a dog, a black friend. (seriously.......why do I get the sinking feeling they are going to drag all that bullshit up again later in the "game") To cap it all you end up playing the first level in a sodding wheelchair with frustrating restrictions on free movement and no way of knowing who is shooting at you or from where.

Terrible. I've played 30 minutes of actual game and I've had enough. It has annoyed me every step of the way and life is too short for that. I'm selling it on.

I like FPS, loved the original Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Half life 1 and 2, Portal 1 and 2, the original Dooms and Quakes and Halos. None of these felt the need to shoehorn in bullshit story padding to this extent. Spending 30 seconds or a minute tops to introduce a scene once and once only is tolerable but no more. Spare me the life stories, you are a game not a movie so stop doing both things badly.

On a brighter note, I was up and running with "yoshi's crafted world" in about 45 seconds flat and that's a delight to play.
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Last edited by Novelty Bobble; 04-23-2019 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:50 AM
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What switch do you use to play Doom, and how/where?
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:36 AM
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What switch do you use to play Doom, and how/where?
Nintendo Switch
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:48 AM
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You're behind the curve, Novelty Bobble. Games have been emulating movies and TV shows (and in some rare cases, surpassing them) for some time now, and people are perfectly happy with it. I am, too. Maybe it's the old D&D player in me, but while I like shooting bad guys in the face, I like it even more when I pretend I'm an actual character who's doing it for a good (or at least interesting) reason.

Now, I haven't played the game in question, so maybe the plot wasn't implemented that well. But if you're complaining about RPG elements in shooters, I'm sorry to say that you've lost the battle years ago.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:41 AM
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that and you missed the 2 other Wolfenstein games see they rebooted the series where the hero gets captured after getting shot but doesn't wake up until 5 years after the axis won ww2 and helps reignites the resistance

this game takes place 30 tears after that the series does have a smidge of social commentary here and there
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:48 AM
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the other games are the old blood and the new order
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:34 AM
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You're behind the curve, Novelty Bobble. Games have been emulating movies and TV shows (and in some rare cases, surpassing them) for some time now, and people are perfectly happy with it. I am, too. Maybe it's the old D&D player in me, but while I like shooting bad guys in the face, I like it even more when I pretend I'm an actual character who's doing it for a good (or at least interesting) reason.

Now, I haven't played the game in question, so maybe the plot wasn't implemented that well. But if you're complaining about RPG elements in shooters, I'm sorry to say that you've lost the battle years ago.
I don't mind there being a backstory or elements of a wider world being revealed and context provided but there are ways of doing so that are far less intrusive then forcing you to sit through long periods of badly acted CGI with risible dialogue and massive, clunky PLOT POINTS signposted in advance.
Also, the (massive) intro cut-scene had absolutely no relevance to the first stage that you play, A first stage in which the mechanics are unforgivable clumsy. It is a very poor way to grab someones attention.

I played and loved Zelda BOTW. There is a case to be made for that being the greatest game ever. It has backstory, it has cut-scenes, there is a story revealed but but it never really intrudes on the next bout of exploration, discovery, slash and puzzle. It was intrinsic and organic. It existed as part of the game whereas the Wolfenstein nonsense felt like bolted-on bollocks that served no purpose. There may have been other games in the series prior to this but there should be no expectation that I've played them to enjoy this one (and indeed they are not available on the console I own). Each should stand on it's own merits. My son knew nothing about Zelda before BOTW but enjoyed it no less.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:45 AM
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that and you missed the 2 other Wolfenstein games see they rebooted the series where the hero gets captured after getting shot but doesn't wake up until 5 years after the axis won ww2 and helps reignites the resistance
OK, but you've just told me all I need to know in a single sentence. Add a little bit of fancy video and stretch it out to 60 seconds of exposition and I'm perfectly happy with that. Drop in a few flashbacks here and there and you can tell the story and build the world without smashing the player over the head with it, all the while they are mashing the non-existent "skip" button thinking "get on with it, get on with it, get on with it"

I'm happy with a great game that is held together with elements of a wider story, Wolfenstein feels like (the clunky) gameplay is there purely to advance the the story and that is absolutely not what I look for in a game.

Gameplay first and foremost. How does it feel to play should be the first consideration. It is an aesthetic and tactile joy to fight guardians, skate on shields and fly on gliders in Zelda, drifting and boosting in Mario Kart is one of life's great pleasures.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:41 AM
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Maybe I'm old (but aren't we all, now?), but unskipable cinematics kills a game for me. I abandoned The Witcher 3 pretty early on because of all the cut-scenes. My aversion is not widely shared.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:09 PM
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Maybe I'm old (but aren't we all, now?), but unskipable cinematics kills a game for me. I abandoned The Witcher 3 pretty early on because of all the cut-scenes. My aversion is not widely shared.
I don't share your aversion .

At least not generally. But I will admit that the unavoidable repetitive Dandelion narration snippets they use instead of blank load screens are a genuine annoyance. It's the repetition that kills me. Unless you avoid re-loads by never dying and playing for very long stretches at a time, hearing the same dialogue over and over again in certain long areas of the story quickly becomes a pain in the ass.

But it is completely worth it as it is otherwise an awesome game.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 04-24-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:34 PM
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The problem is not unskippable cutscenes. Sorry, you're just wrong. ;P

The problem is BAD cutscenes that don't go a good job of conveying information or character and therefore make you WANT to skip them.

The problem is that while lots of games want to sell themselves with "story", writing and actual story-creation remains a low priority for most developers. Oftentimes a writer won't even be brought in until a game is well underway, so the writer is stuck with a bunch of stuff and has to make the best of it.

Game writing is hard, and few developers give it the staffing or importance it deserves, even as they try to make games with a compelling narrative. Of course, some developers are better than others, but nonetheless...
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:13 PM
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I thought that TNC was weaker than TNO but the previous game was such a breath of air in the genre that I'm not surprised they didn't capture lightning twice. On the other hand, checking my post-game stats, I killed 2,045 Nazis, Nazi robots, Nazi dogs, Nazi robot dogs and one alligator who probably wasn't affiliated with National Socialism in any way. So despite more cut scenes, there was still plenty of shooting to be had and I enjoyed the game overall.

Even TNO I've described as a game where you need to just tolerate the first half hour (the castle tutorial and plot building) before it starts to get any good so I guess it's just a mark of the new Wolfenstein franchise.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:58 PM
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I loved the ever livin' fuck out of New Colossus, and the cut-scenes were a big part of why. BJ was an amazingly realized character, both in visual design and in writing. And that extended beyond just the protagonist - the bit where you meet the leader of the resistance in Manhattan, and she describes the experience of living through the Germans dropping an atom bomb on the city, was one of the most affecting things I've ever seen in a video game.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:50 PM
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Cut scenes, done well, elevate a game. Done badly they kill a game.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:18 AM
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I loved the ever livin' fuck out of New Colossus, and the cut-scenes were a big part of why. BJ was an amazingly realized character,
I thought the initial intro was boring, cartoonish and hammy. I was very quickly wishing for his dad to punch his mother and for him to shoot his dog just to get the awful acting over with and get on with the actual game.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:37 AM
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Novelty, if what you want in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women lots of shooty-blam-blam without any pesky story getting in the way, check out the Serious Sam franchise. It should be right up your alley.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:45 AM
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Oh, also, while I haven't played the latest one, I found the new Shadow Warrior game to be pretty neat. There's a story, of sorts, but it's mostly a pretext for the voice actors to ham it up and enjoy themselves trading barbs ; and for the gameplay to have token context.

But it doesn't take itself seriously in the least, doesn't pretend to be anything more than what it is, nobody expects you to press F to pay respects and it's pretty good shooty-blam-blam ; with decent swoosh-swoosh-sblurtch tacked on too ! Usually melee combat really doesn't mesh with FPS, but here it's well done and you can have great fun blending seemlessly between, well, blending your enemies and then shooting them in the face.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:52 AM
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Thanks Kobal2, I'll have a look at the Serious Sam games. Not available on Switch I see but I have a Steam account and can run some less-demanding games on low-powered laptops at home so the earlier incarnations should be fun.

And pondering on your words, I suspect that a game taking itself too seriously is part of the thing that bugs me.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:17 AM
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I thought the initial intro was boring, cartoonish and hammy. I was very quickly wishing for his dad to punch his mother and for him to shoot his dog just to get the awful acting over with and get on with the actual game.
I donít remember if the first scene was longer or worse than the rest of the game. It was too many games ago to remember. But I donít remember being annoyed with the cutscenes. There was plenty of Nazi killing in the game. I donít like player versus player so this is the type of first person shooter I like with a decent storyline. If all I cared about was shooting guns I would stick with PvP.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:51 AM
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I donít remember if the first scene was longer or worse than the rest of the game. It was too many games ago to remember. But I donít remember being annoyed with the cutscenes. There was plenty of Nazi killing in the game. I donít like player versus player so this is the type of first person shooter I like with a decent storyline. If all I cared about was shooting guns I would stick with PvP.
Same here. I loved this particular string of Wolfenstein games.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:05 PM
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Oh, also, while I haven't played the latest one, I found the new Shadow Warrior game to be pretty neat. There's a story, of sorts, but it's mostly a pretext for the voice actors to ham it up and enjoy themselves trading barbs ; and for the gameplay to have token context.

But it doesn't take itself seriously in the least, doesn't pretend to be anything more than what it is, nobody expects you to press F to pay respects and it's pretty good shooty-blam-blam ; with decent swoosh-swoosh-sblurtch tacked on too ! Usually melee combat really doesn't mesh with FPS, but here it's well done and you can have great fun blending seemlessly between, well, blending your enemies and then shooting them in the face.
I grabbed that for my Xbox One when it was free to Live Gold members but never got around to playing it. It sounds fun, I might check it out this weekend. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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Oh one other FPS series that I think does cutscenes well is the Borderlands series. Those games never take themselves seriously, ever. Except for the (skippable) opening sequences for the games, none of the cutscenes take very long either.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:58 PM
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When Yakuza 0 was part of the humble bundle I was looking forward to playing it to see what the fuss was about, as many reviewers are always saying how good the series is. After 2 hours consisting of 100 minutes of ridiculous subtitled melodrama and 20 minutes of a half-assed fighting game when I realized that that was the game, I subsequently realized those reviewers have a much different value they attach to their time than I do.
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Old 04-26-2019, 09:42 AM
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Nah; You're leaving out bowling, karaoke, space harrier, crane games...
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:31 AM
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Christ, when exactly did people decide that the cut-scenes and "acting" need to take up most of the bloody game?
I see you've never played a Final Fantasy game .

I just got FFX/X-2 HD Remaster for the Switch and man are there a lot of unskippable cut scenes!
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:44 PM
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I see you've never played a Final Fantasy game .

I just got FFX/X-2 HD Remaster for the Switch and man are there a lot of unskippable cut scenes!
Yeah, but lets be fair to FFX here. It's _18_ years old. Fancy cutscenes were things that got people seriously excited back then.

It's still a terrible game, but not because of the cutscenes, precisely.

Last edited by Airk; 04-26-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:53 PM
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I'm quite enjoying it, actually. But the cutscenes are quite a bit too much - but even then you had some games where you could skip the cutscenes (or at least some of them)
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:25 PM
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My vote for most tedious cut scenes goes to Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. The characters would start talking and not shut up.
I got to the final chapter in the game waiting and waiting for the final battle to start and the guys just droned on and on before the fight like I was watching a WWE soap opera.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:43 PM
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I'm not in favor of the death penalty but unskippable cutscenes make me waver.

Let people decide whether or not they want to follow the story. You can provide a summary in the objectives menu. I've noticed that the more a game insists on showing me its story, the worse the story tends to be.

The game gets better though. That early part in the wheelchair makes you feel what the protagonist feels and it eventually takes you through an interesting power up journey.

Still, fuck unskippable cutscenes.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:05 PM
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even on the snes final fantasy had huge scenes ....you just had to read walls of text.......
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:20 PM
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The game gets better though. That early part in the wheelchair makes you feel what the protagonist feels and it eventually takes you through an interesting power up journey.
I've calmed down a little and detoxed on "into the breach" and "tetris 99". I may try and get through that first level and see how it goes.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:37 PM
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Would I be able to play this with a Core i7-920 and a GTX-970?
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:58 PM
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Would I be able to play this with a Core i7-920 and a GTX-970?
I have a 970 too and it's not a CPU-intensive game; You might not get a smooth 60fps with all max settings but you'll be quite fine. Pull that trigger.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:06 PM
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I have a 970 too and it's not a CPU-intensive game; You might not get a smooth 60fps with all max settings but you'll be quite fine. Pull that trigger.
I may just do that. Thanks!
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:43 PM
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OP's best bet is probably to check out Wolfenstein: The Old Blood. It's the same mechanics and gunplay as TNO and TNC, but with a much simpler story and a lot more shooting of the ol' Nazis. It's my least favorite, because I like the alternative history and character building of the two main games, but it's definitely solid and resembles the older games more.
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Old 04-26-2019, 06:18 PM
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The game gets better though. That early part in the wheelchair makes you feel what the protagonist feels and it eventually takes you through an interesting power up journey.

That's a point worth making, yeah - the early part is *supposed* to frustrate the player. It's designed to. Of course, it'd be better if at that point the player was emotionally invested in Blasko's story or character - it's always difficult to write for long time fans and newcomers alike.


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Still, fuck unskippable cutscenes.
Oh yes. There's a special circle in Heck for the devs who, in this day and age, still feel like their Vision is more important than my time. They have to watch FF-X Tidus' unskippable cringey fake laugh cutscene. Forever. I'm assured of this.
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Old 04-26-2019, 06:20 PM
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Yeah, but lets be fair to FFX here. It's _18_ years old.
It can't be, I got it right after high school. So 2, 3 years ago tops. Right ?
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:48 AM
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OK, so I've got through a few levels and thankfully the gameplay gets better quite quickly and it starts to feel more like a search 'n' shoot-in-the-face that I enjoy. I also have to say that I'm impressed how well a low-powered device like the Switch can push those graphics around (especially as a hand-held).

The fact remains that there is a major plot cut-scene between each level and it is unskippable and borders on the cartoonish rather than compelling. I don't think there's any need for it. Not being able to skip it is unforgivably bad design. A paragraph of text on the screen as the level ends and another as the next one loads is all that is needed.

I'll persevere but I'm strongly stating my disapproval here. Take note developers.
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Old 04-27-2019, 05:34 AM
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That's a point worth making, yeah - the early part is *supposed* to frustrate the player. It's designed to. Of course, it'd be better if at that point the player was emotionally invested in Blasko's story or character - it's always difficult to write for long time fans and newcomers alike.
The developers seem to have had conflicting design priorities. On the one hand, the game gets you to have empathy for handicapped people and other minorities and seems to make a link between the mindset of Nazis and the mindset of domestic abusers. Then it mixes that with homicidal glee and toilet humor. I personally could have done without the domestic abuse, romance/cancer and toilet humor. I would have been more satisfied if the game had focused on making me feel what it's like to be a Helot and then letting me have fun ripping Spartans apart.


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OK, so I've got through a few levels and thankfully the gameplay gets better quite quickly and it starts to feel more like a search 'n' shoot-in-the-face that I enjoy. I also have to say that I'm impressed how well a low-powered device like the Switch can push those graphics around (especially as a hand-held).
That design choice was risky but worth it. The lower down you start, the more contrast there will be with where you end up at the end.


A long form analysis of the game for those interested, probably best to wait until you've finished the game if you dislike spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhFBupwfdU
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:59 PM
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I have a 970 too and it's not a CPU-intensive game; You might not get a smooth 60fps with all max settings but you'll be quite fine. Pull that trigger.
So far, so good on Medium settings. Maybe I'll try for higher settings at some point, but it looks pretty good as is. So far, all my scenes have been in corridors, so maybe it will slow down in the more open scenes.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:14 PM
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That's a point worth making, yeah - the early part is *supposed* to frustrate the player. It's designed to. Of course, it'd be better if at that point the player was emotionally invested in Blasko's story or character - it's always difficult to write for long time fans and newcomers alike.
Part of the game seems to be about sympathizing with the less powerful, either at a small or large scale. I can see how the developers might reply to those who felt frustrated by the early game something along the lines of: "Oh, it must really be frustrating isn't it, to be in wheelchair for half an hour in a game you can close at any time."


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So far, so good on Medium settings. Maybe I'll try for higher settings at some point, but it looks pretty good as is. So far, all my scenes have been in corridors, so maybe it will slow down in the more open scenes.
Steam allows you to display the framerate in a corner of the screen. That could help you assess what's optimal. You can push it further than that although be mindful that the highest setting is often there to look good in screenshots rather than when played and may have severely diminishing returns.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 04-27-2019 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:52 AM
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Part of the game seems to be about sympathizing with the less powerful, either at a small or large scale. I can see how the developers might reply to those who felt frustrated by the early game something along the lines of: "Oh, it must really be frustrating isn't it, to be in wheelchair for half an hour in a game you can close at any time."




Steam allows you to display the framerate in a corner of the screen. That could help you assess what's optimal. You can push it further than that although be mindful that the highest setting is often there to look good in screenshots rather than when played and may have severely diminishing returns.
I'm cruising along at 60FPS pretty much all the time. I don't know why they would publish system specs that the game doesn't really need. It basically scared me away from playing it for no reason. Thanks for giving me the push I needed to get into it.

To your first point, I think it's a good one -- man, it is frustrating trying to get around in a wheel chair, having to avoid stairs, rolling out of control down conveyor belts, and having to wait a half second to pick up the gun before can start blasting Nazis. Of course, that frustration is nothing like actually being in a wheelchair all the time, and it's a interesting message the developers are sending.
  #43  
Old 04-29-2019, 08:46 AM
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Thanks for giving me the push I needed to get into it.
https://imgur.com/jNhOLYM



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Originally Posted by RitterSport View Post
I don't know why they would publish system specs that the game doesn't really need. It basically scared me away from playing it for no reason.
Laziness? Wanting to play it extra safe so they don't get blamed for marginal cases? Giving that job to the intern who doesn't know what he's doing?

You can usually ignore CPU and RAM requirements if you have something decent you bought in the last decade. While some games (like Cities Skylines) are CPU-heavy and VR requires everything to be ultrafast, if you have a 3GHz 4-core CPU and 8GBs of RAM, your bottleneck will be your GPU and display 99% of the time.

Steam has a generous return policy so if you find your CPU/RAM aren't up to it after all, they'll very likely give you your money back.


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man, it is frustrating trying to get around in a wheel chair, having to avoid stairs, rolling out of control down conveyor belts, and having to wait a half second to pick up the gun before can start blasting Nazis. Of course, that frustration is nothing like actually being in a wheelchair all the time, and it's a interesting message the developers are sending.
Video games have the potential to be awareness and empathy-expanding performance art. Don't preach, don't show, don't tell; Enable players to learn by doing while in a safe virtual environment.

If you like what they did, you may enjoy this video that's along the same lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bsxQZ5JDec
  #44  
Old 04-30-2019, 03:32 PM
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Video games have the potential to be awareness and empathy-expanding performance art. Don't preach, don't show, don't tell; Enable players to learn by doing while in a safe virtual environment.
...with Nazis shooting at you.

(I get what you’re saying and agree 1000% but in context it’s a tad ironic.)

Last edited by Atamasama; 04-30-2019 at 03:32 PM.
  #45  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:49 AM
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Just a point, not raised before: It's Wolfenstein _2_: The New Colossus.

It doesn't really help that it's the 3rd one in the current run of the series. New Order was great, but Old Blood was much more of an expansion pack than a full new game.

Personally I think Wolfenstein 2: TNC was by far the weakest of the series. It was ok, but I never loved it like the first two. It had more interesting variation such KKK in Nazi america, like something out of The Man in the High Castle. The game itself however, didn't work as well for me...
  #46  
Old 05-09-2019, 01:35 PM
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The developers seem to have had conflicting design priorities. On the one hand, the game gets you to have empathy for handicapped people and other minorities and seems to make a link between the mindset of Nazis and the mindset of domestic abusers. Then it mixes that with homicidal glee and toilet humor. I personally could have done without the domestic abuse, romance/cancer and toilet humor. I would have been more satisfied if the game had focused on making me feel what it's like to be a Helot and then letting me have fun ripping Spartans apart.

The toilet humor, I reckon, is much like Grace's over the top jivetalk, ya dig ? Yeah, it's probably a little on the nose (a lot more on the nose than the sight gag in the Old Blood, when BJ is told to put his weapon in a box before an infiltration weapon - which takes half a minute because he's got so... many... guns . I laughed out loud for real at that one. Also at BJ's blasť and matter-of-fact "Fuck." as he's tumbling out of a crashing cable car. The Old Blood was a hoot) but without those moments of levity and/or camaraderie the whole thing would be pretty fucking depressing.



Which I think is a criticism one can levy at The New Order - there's so much raw fucking horror in that game and few real breathers outside of Max Hass being Max Hass. Dissections and babies being thrown about and civilian executions and BJ rising from a pile of Auschwitz-like corpses... it gets heavy. And sure, it makes dismembering them Nazi bastards with dual auto shottys all the more pleasant but still. Pretty somber stuff, especially if you add in BJ's oh so cheerful little monologues.
So from what I've seen of it (waiting on a sale to get it, but watched about half of an LP) the levity of TNC isn't necessarily a bad idea. But yeah, if you want grimdark and a boot on your face forever, TNO has you covered and a half.


As for the domestic abuse, I kinda liked it. I mean, I didn't like watching it obviously, but it goes towards explaining the gigantic hard-on BJ has for bullies. Humanizes the big slab of meat a little. Plus some of his childhood memories are really sweet, which again provides a neat counterpoint to the "everything is shit and then BJ gets another concussion" that comes right after.



And the wheelchair, IMO, isn't so much about empathy (although it is too I suppose), but also about the player getting angry at how shitty it handles - much like Blazko is frustrated at his being confined to it. Stupid fucking broken body getting in the way of murdering Nazis !
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Last edited by Kobal2; 05-09-2019 at 01:35 PM.
  #47  
Old 05-09-2019, 03:37 PM
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i got it cause its on this seasons MS game pass (I couldn't resist 3 mos for a buck) so ill check it out soon .....
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