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Old 05-03-2019, 05:32 PM
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digs is offline
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West of Wauwatosa
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Hi, I'm the other side of that Zero-Sum game. I lose most poker games I'm in*.

If I found myself travelling to Vegas for vacation or a conference, I would LOVE a casual evening (or afternoon) learning the basics of poker. And it'd be worth a hundred bucks or more. Especially from someone who's been a "playah", and could tell me "No no noooo, see what you did there? Don't do that." (My "that" is usually Staying In For Fun when a good player'd be folding half the time)

*Neighborhood guys. Low stakes, it's actually a "beer, scotch and insults... oh, and poker" game.

ETA: Seriously, start some group lessons. The money spent on those would be less than what I'd lose at the tables, and judging by your posts, a lot more fun.

Last edited by digs; 05-03-2019 at 05:34 PM.
Old 05-04-2019, 03:33 PM
Textual Innuendo is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 477
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Question: How the heck do you support yourselves playing poker?
The esteemed SenorBeef already did a better job explaining this than I would have done, but I'd also point out it was a lot easier to do this when online poker was legal and popular and full of fish - you could play 4+ games at once at middling stakes where the skill level was low enough you could reliably make money, and having multiple games at once both increased your hourly win rate and decreased volatility.

At a casino, you can only play one game at a time so you have to play higher stakes and pick your table more carefully, the rake is higher, and your volatility is higher because of the higher stakes and fewer fresh faces coming to the table relative to online poker.

I got out a year or so after enough politicians were bought to declare online poker illegal in the US, because the state I lived in at the time didn't have any casinos and the online scene dried up quite a bit without the US market feeding it. Even if I'd lived in Nevada, I hear in-person play also tightened up and got a lot more cut-throat, so I've no doubt SenorBeef is a better player than me if he was able to survive another decade in that milieu.
Old 05-07-2019, 08:34 PM
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Fair Rarity is offline
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Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
Consider looking into They allow you to take on odd jobs and set your own rates and hours. You'd be able to use your own car for jobs that require it. Some people move furniture or assemble Ikea furniture. If you have any real skills, like plumbing or carpentry, you can command higher rates. You probably won't make anywhere near $35/hour after Task Rabbit takes their cut and you account for down time but it might get you started on working in the gig economy. I haven't used Task Rabbit myself but my friends who have been customers like the service. You can supplement Task Rabbit earnings with posts on Craigslist offering to do odd jobs.
Anyone have personal experience with Task Rabbit? I was looking into it today and I had questions. I don't want to be a driver (hate driving) exclusively, but I don't mind doing errand type things at my own pace. So I know in theory there are errand type tasks available, but I didn't know if they were a once in a blue moon thing or something you can make a couple hundred or so a week doing. To sign up as a person to do the tasks, you have to pay them $20, presumably for a background check. And you have to go to an in-person orientation. I don't want to go through all that and log in my first day and find it's all just "Come unclog my toilet" stuff. It's totally worth the $20 if I MADE $20 easily in a couple hours, but if it's too skilled for someone like me, it's not.
Old 05-13-2019, 04:23 PM
jsc1953 is online now
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Location: Bay Area, California
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Its a polite way of saying that due to lack of job stability and increased income inequality people are forced to perform a wide range of odd jobs where they have no benefits, no job security and a higher tax rate.
I recently attended a talk given by Anand Giridharadas and Robert Reich on economic inequality. Anand G (Indo-American) said: in India, labor is so cheap that everyone with a good income has servants - cooks, housekeepers, drivers.

The "gig economy" is the Indification of America. We're heading towards 2 classes: Uber drivers, and the people who can afford to take Uber.
Old 05-13-2019, 04:35 PM
jasg is offline
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
True. For example, the singer in "King of the Road" gets two hours of pushing brooms. Perfect example. Though in the US not something people competed for, unlike freelancing.
The theme song to the new gig economy?

Serfin' USA
Old 05-13-2019, 07:01 PM
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Voyager is offline
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
The theme song to the new gig economy?

Serfin' USA
I just saw a reference to a play about sticking it to the man called "Serfs Up."
Old 05-13-2019, 09:00 PM
actualliberalnotoneofthose is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,293
When my business went south and I was looking for a job, I signed up for everything (Uber, Ubereats, Lyft, TaskRabbit, Instacart, Shipt, DoorDash,etc) but I ended up getting hired for a low wage hourly labor job and devoted my time (and overtime) to that instead.

I joined many many Facebook pages and groups and follow Youtube channels of people who do this fulltime and the best examples that I find don't even make more than most entry level jobs that hire anyone. I get that some people desire "freedom" (though being a gig worker is technically an independent contractor thing, there is very little real "own your own business" type freedom IMHO) to an extreme, but it's not really worth it to me if you are making minimum wage or less. In many cases the driving ones pay less. For example, in one of the groups last week a guy was bragging how he ran DoorDash for 106 hours and made $800. I average about $1000 working in a warehouse if I work 5 days a week. There are other people who make $250-300 a day running every app imaginable at one time and working all day long. Many of these people have their gig careers end when they can't afford a basic car repair or some other minor inconvenience that does not happen when you have adequate earnings. Some of the top people I follow might profit $10/hr at the high end and have to deal with endless headaches from customers and 3rd party apps and customer service calls over order mistakes, restaurants that refuse to serve them, and so on.
Old 05-14-2019, 09:02 AM
msmith537 is offline
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,385
[QUOTE=jsc1953;21640456]I recently attended a talk given by Anand Giridharadas and Robert Reich on economic inequality. Anand G (Indo-American) said: in India, labor is so cheap that everyone with a good income has servants - cooks, housekeepers, drivers.

Originally Posted by jsc1953 View Post
The "gig economy" is the Indification of America. We're heading towards 2 classes: Uber drivers, and the people who can afford to take Uber.
That statement doesn't make sense. Pretty much anyone can afford to take an Uber. You might as well say "there are two classes of people - McDonalds workers and people who can afford to eat at McDonalds.

I have no idea how much Uber drivers make. But if they are paid so low, why are there so many of them or why don't they find other service jobs in restaurants or bars or wherever that don't require you to maintain an automobile?

Originally Posted by Textual Innuendo
I know, I know - you lose the "be your own boss" thing. But only for a while, after you have a few years experience under your belt it's pretty easy to go freelance and do contract gigs wherever you can. And that's a "gig economy" that actually isn't screwing you, because you should be easily clearing six figures as a gig coder. Something to mull over.
Project Management lends itself to "gig" jobs as well. And it pays well. Anywhere from $40 to $100 an hour or more, depending on various factors like industry, location and experience.

Personally, I hate the whole "gig economy" mindset. Not every job lends itself to being an interchangeable cog in the corporate machinery and not everyone wants to or is cut out to constantly "hustle" looking for new gigs. That's why you have a "company" in the first place. You have sales and marketing people who go out and look for work. You have technical people who are familiar with the products and can build or fix them as needed. Project and engagement managers who have built relationships, know how everything works and have executed similar projects on behalf of your company before.

I don't know how many times I've seen companies do these large, complex engagements with a hodge podge of consultants and contractors from all sorts of firms and it turns into a giant clusterfuck.
Old 05-14-2019, 09:52 AM
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JohnT is online now
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It also doesn't make sense in that in order to do Uber and Lyft, you have to have a relatively recent automobile, a smart phone, and a data plan. The true poor of the poor are not driving Ubers.

Doing Doordash, Uber, etc... it's supposed to be a gig, a part-time thing. It's not designed for people to try to make a living off it, it's designed to provide supplemental income, and even then there are right ways and wrong ways to do it. I do it "right" (at least for me) - I do everything under my company, I am fairly aggressive on my tax deductions (because I pay for an accountant), I only work when it's busy (pretty much nights and weekends - day driving sucks $-wise), I am heavily insured (see above re: deductions), I am able to write-off much of my car R&M expenses (see above re: deductions), I figured out how to average 20%+ of my income in tips, etc. All in all I earn $25/hour with a tax basis of around $3/hour. (That tip thing was huge - a few weekends ago, I made $700, $286 of it was tips.)

But most do it wrong - I'm probably 1 of a hundred drivers (at best) who even bothered to do all of the above, and even in the actual function of the job I can tell that there are drivers who don't really get it: they sit for an hour at the airport, they work events, they think rush hour is a fantastic time to pick up people, they do crap like buy candy bars and drinks for their passengers ( )... and the way they interact with the passengers, no wonder there are a lot of complaints.

So... while I have empathy, the fact remains that many of the people doing these gig jobs are just fucking doing it wrong. It's supposed to provide supplemental income, not be the way you make your living, and there are ways to take advantage of the tax laws so that this supplemental income is largely tax-free.

Last edited by JohnT; 05-14-2019 at 09:54 AM.
Old 05-14-2019, 10:10 PM
Rushgeekgirl is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Memphis
Posts: 6,057
I know this much. Amazon Mturk has gone way downhill in the past year. My income has been cut in half.


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