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  #201  
Old 04-09-2012, 01:52 PM
notfrommensa is offline
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For the record, Tiger went 3-1-0, and nobody on either team did better. .
3 wins were against the Euro Scrimmage team.

Wins against

Poulter/Fisher (and Stricker carried the load)
Jimenez/Hanson
Molinari

Had the worst lost of the 2010 Matches when Woods/Stricker played A-Team of Donald/Westwood. Losing 7&6. on the 12th green.
  #202  
Old 04-09-2012, 04:47 PM
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3 wins were against the Euro Scrimmage team.
Geez, you'd complain if you were hung with a new rope. At the Ryder Cup, the Captains don't know what the opposing lineup is. All the players can do is beat whomever they are playing, and Tiger did it as well as anyone, and better than all but a couple or three.
  #203  
Old 04-09-2012, 05:38 PM
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You are saying that Tiger 2010 record was impressive. if you look at the W/L record and only the W/L record you would be correct. But the devil is the details.

Look at Hole 12 in this play by play in the Fisher/Poulter match:

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Originally Posted by 2010_RyderCup
Stricker is carrying US in this match, outstanding winner
the fact is, that Tiger/Stricker got the luck of the draw, drawing the Euro Weaker teams in Session 1 and 2. and then when they played the A-Team, they got waxed 7/6

And F. Molinari was ranked well into the 30's, his singles match.

Stricker carried him in the fourball (remember the chunk wedge with Cigar guy on 18)

Woods did play well in the Singles, but that is one match, against player who was like a deer in the Headlights guy. Out of his element.

the fact is that since TW became a pro, the US Ryder cup team is 1-5 with him on the team and 1-0 without him on the team. And the one win was a miracle comeback win in 1999.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 04-09-2012 at 05:38 PM.
  #204  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:24 PM
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You are saying that Tiger 2010 record was impressive. if you look at the W/L record and only the W/L record you would be correct.
Since the W/L record and only the W/L record is relevant to whether he is the reason we lost, I accept your apology.
  #205  
Old 04-09-2012, 06:52 PM
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the fact is, that Tiger/Stricker got the luck of the draw, drawing the Euro Weaker teams in Session 1 and 2. and then when they played the A-Team, they got waxed 7/6
That was Pavin's screwup. The guy did nothing right -- couldn't rent a plane that held the whole team, couldn't get rainsuits that repelled rain, picked Ricky Bieber (which probably cost us the Cup), and last but not least, put Tiger/Stricker out in foursomes instead of fourball, when he had the choice. Everybody knew that Tiger's driver was erratic, and fourball would have been a much better choice.
  #206  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:27 PM
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Since the W/L record and only the W/L record is relevant to whether he is the reason we lost, I accept your apology.
The only really relevant statistics is that in:

1997: US Lost the Ryder Cup
1999: US Won the Ryder Cup
2002: US Lost the Ryder Cup
2004: US Lost the Ryder Cup
2006: US Lost the Ryder Cup
2008: US Won the Ryder Cup (Tiger was not on the team)
2010: US Lost the Ryder Cup

it doesn't matter what the individuals do, the team Lost in 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2010 with Tiger on the team and won in 2008 w/o Tiger on the team.

It is all about the team, and Tiger partnered with the healthiest, highest ranked player available in 2010. What is best for Tiger is not necessarily best for the US team.
  #207  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:28 PM
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Everybody knew that Tiger's driver was erratic, and fourball would have been a much better choice.
Seven and Six
  #208  
Old 04-09-2012, 09:23 PM
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it doesn't matter what the individuals do, the team Lost in 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2010 with Tiger on the team and won in 2008 w/o Tiger on the team.
Seriously, now. All kidding aside. Do you really want me, and much more importantly, the other readers of this board, to judge your capacity for logical reasoning and objectivity by your assertion that Tiger's presence caused the US Ryder Cup team to lose those years, and his absence in 2008 caused the win? Or was even an important factor in either case?
  #209  
Old 06-03-2012, 04:23 PM
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Is this finally the tourney Tiger wins with a large respectable field? That chip was ridiculous.
  #210  
Old 06-03-2012, 04:45 PM
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A nice coincidence to tie Jack for tour victories at Jack's tourney.
  #211  
Old 06-03-2012, 06:21 PM
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Is this finally the tourney Tiger wins with a large respectable field? That chip was ridiculous.
Bay Hill had a large respectable field. This week's field was extremely strong, probably in the top three of the year for a regular PGA event.

And Fowler is lucky he won at Quail Hollow, or I would taunt him a second time about shooting 84 today.
  #212  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:05 PM
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Is he back to banging 4 different women per week? Maybe that's what his game needed.
  #213  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:09 PM
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Is he back to banging 4 different women per week? Maybe that's what his game needed.
I doubt it, or (ahem) I'd win the US Open.
  #214  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:15 PM
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I doubt it, or (ahem) I'd win the US Open.
::golf clap::
  #215  
Old 06-03-2012, 08:46 PM
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Meanwhile, Tiger's agent, and the one important person in his entourage who he hasn't fired post-fire hydrant, got busted Saturday for DWI outside of New York City.

Blood Alcohol Content = 0.18, and 0.08 is the legal limit. 0.18 is enough for aggravated DWI in the state of New York.

Mark Steinberg, in an email to Bloomberg, said:

Quote:
“it’s a medical issue that I was dealing with. It’s not what you think.”
I have heard of Medical Marijuana, but Medical Martinis? Its a new one on me.

Last edited by notfrommensa; 06-03-2012 at 08:47 PM.
  #216  
Old 06-03-2012, 09:04 PM
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“it’s a medical issue that I was dealing with.”
Snakebite?

Last edited by TonySinclair; 06-03-2012 at 09:05 PM.
  #217  
Old 06-03-2012, 09:11 PM
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Methanol poisoning?
  #218  
Old 06-06-2012, 07:57 PM
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Is he back to banging 4 different women per week? Maybe that's what his game needed.
Yeah-it helps to get his putter to rise.
  #219  
Old 07-01-2012, 08:24 PM
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The difference in the President's Cup was Couples selecting Tiger vs. Norman selecting Allenby. Stricker was awful in the first foresomes match - it wasn't Tigers fault they lost so badly.

He is totally back, his shots are crisp and clean, and his putting was extremely good. His length was perfect and his line was just off on some of the nastiest greens on the planet.

He'll win at least three tourneys next year, and at least one of them will be a major. Just put him back on some familiar greens.
Well, he's got the three wins, just need a major now. The Open is at Royal Lytham and St. Anne's and the PGA is at Kiawah Island. I'm not sure either course suits Tiger's game, but I don't think they are bad news for him, either. He probably won't ever use his driver in the Open, with a short course full of bunkers.
  #220  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:35 PM
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Right now, Tiger is clearly the best American golfer. His official ranking is 0.12 behind Stricker, but that is based on the last two years. A shorter window, or even a divisor based on the actual number of events played, would put him fourth in the world, after Rory, Luke, and Lee. I will happily concede that he has yet to prove that he is better than the top Euros, but even if you don't think he will do that in the next few months, as I do, it makes no sense to say he's "just another golfer," when he's probably no worse than the third best in the world, and provably no worse than fourth.
And now I think it's safe to say that Tiger is clearly the best golfer in the world. His actual world ranking is #4, but it would be #2 if not for the minimum divisor, and it would be #1 based on the last six months. Year to date, he leads in earnings, scoring average, FedEx points, and WGR points --- well ahead of #2 Rory MCilroy.
  #221  
Old 07-03-2012, 06:37 AM
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What's with the big "MC" - Massive Choker? Major Champion?

I'm not a huge golf fan (though I do enjoy watching it from time to time and support the European players and team) and I have no dog in this fight except to say that Tiger playing well is clearly good for golf, and I would be quite happy to see him reach 19 majors. However, if it came down to a playoff between him and Rory, Lee, Luke, or most other Europeans, I'd be rooting for them.
  #222  
Old 07-03-2012, 03:47 PM
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What's with the big "MC" - Massive Choker? Major Champion?
MC stands for "Missed Cut" on PGA leaderboards. During the late lamented Rory Era, Tiger missed one cut, and the peanut gallery said he was washed up, or "just another golfer." Rory just ended a streak of missing four cuts in five events.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 07-03-2012 at 03:50 PM.
  #223  
Old 07-03-2012, 06:38 PM
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MC stands for "Missed Cut" on PGA leaderboards. During the late lamented Rory Era, Tiger missed one cut, and the peanut gallery said he was washed up, or "just another golfer." Rory just ended a streak of missing four cuts in five events.
Dude someone has to break Rory and the hot tennis player up LOL. Ever since he and Woz have been kickin it.. they've both been HORRIBLE..

reminds me of that great underground classic CB4 (Chris Rock movie) When Chris Rock told his DJ Otis. ":Ever since you got some (slang of ummm cat?) your mixing has fallen the fuck off!!! "..
  #224  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:08 PM
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MC stands for "Missed Cut" on PGA leaderboards. During the late lamented Rory Era, Tiger missed one cut, and the peanut gallery said he was washed up, or "just another golfer." Rory just ended a streak of missing four cuts in five events.
Doh! Thanks. Obvious now you point it out.
  #225  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:18 PM
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Tiger poised to return to #1.
  #226  
Old 03-24-2013, 02:56 PM
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Impossible. He's all washed up, and he can't win a full field event.
  #227  
Old 03-24-2013, 03:17 PM
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He does better when he has a hot girlfriend.
  #228  
Old 03-24-2013, 03:38 PM
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He does better when he has a hot girlfriend.
That can't be it; I date supermodels, but I can't break 80.

Edit: crap, play cancelled for today, and resumes at 7AM my time tomorrow. I hate getting up that early.

Last edited by TonySinclair; 03-24-2013 at 03:40 PM.
  #229  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:25 PM
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Well, Tiger just won his third stroke play PGA event out of four tries so far this year, and he's regained the World #1 spot. He still has a lot of room for improvement, but it's pretty clear that his game is back to the point where he just needs a good putting week to win a major, and he's starting to have good putting weeks more often than not.
  #230  
Old 03-25-2013, 04:32 PM
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Well, Tiger just won his third stroke play PGA event out of four tries so far this year, and he's regained the World #1 spot. He still has a lot of room for improvement, but it's pretty clear that his game is back to the point where he just needs a good putting week to win a major, and he's starting to have good putting weeks more often than not.
And he seems to know to play it safe - he didn't go for the green on 18 -

and damn if that par put wasn't close.
  #231  
Old 03-25-2013, 05:08 PM
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And he seems to know to play it safe - he didn't go for the green on 18 -
and damn if that par put wasn't close.
Yup, it's more exciting when he has to birdie 18 to win --- which he's done a couple or three times at the API --- but it's actually more dominating to have a cushion that allows you to make a double bogey and still win. You don't get to carry the strokes forward to the next event, so you might as well use them.

But it sure would have been cool if that putt had dropped.
  #232  
Old 03-30-2013, 02:41 AM
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Generally, when an athlete has truly godlike dominance of a sport, the kind of transcendent ultra-hyper-gigastar laps the field five times over and is absolutely utterly invincible and untouchable, his career generally follows one of these paths:

* He defines the sport for an entire generation, and, except for maybe a slight decline in his later years, is never is remotely in danger of being knocked off the throne (Richard Petty, Wayne Gretzky, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Greg Louganis, Alexander Karelin, Nadia Comameci, Michael Phelps, Ryoko Tani, Chiyonofuji).
* He retires too early for some reason (Bjorn Borg, Barry Sanders).
* The game changes, he can't make the adjustment, and he falls hard (George Mikan, Bill Elliott, Jeff Gordon, Barry Bonds, Royce Gracie).
* Somewhere along the line, something awful happens...a big upset, a crippling injury, a family tragedy, what have you...and he never recovers (Mike Tyson, Monica Seles).
* His head gets in the way, whether it's lack of focus, ego problems, bad work ethic, or just an unfortunate habit of making stupid decisions, and while the final tally is really good, it could've been even better (Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Andre Agassi, Evander Holyfield, Mario Lemieux

And that's what's most infuriating about Tiger Woods...the simple fact that there's no way that someone who's had as many catastrophic career collapses as him should be this damn good right now. And of course, the inverse is equally true; someone capable of winning three in a row should have toppled Jack Nicklaus' ultimate record, like two years ago.

I mean, sheesh, how many times has this thread been bumped, five? The heck with Jason Voorhees, he's Wolverine.

Yo, ESPN: This is the angle I'm interested in.

.............

Eh...maybe he breaks the record, maybe he doesn't. Just don't drag it out, y'know?
  #233  
Old 03-30-2013, 09:18 AM
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Tiger Woods is more like Muhammad Ali or Madonna, in that they all have gone through stylistic changes, reinventing themselves multiple times.
  #234  
Old 03-31-2013, 07:19 AM
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Generally, when an athlete has truly godlike dominance of a sport, the kind of transcendent ultra-hyper-gigastar laps the field five times over and is absolutely utterly invincible and untouchable, his career generally follows one of these paths:

* He defines the sport for an entire generation, and, except for maybe a slight decline in his later years, is never is remotely in danger of being knocked off the throne (Richard Petty, Wayne Gretzky, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Greg Louganis, Alexander Karelin, Nadia Comameci, Michael Phelps, Ryoko Tani, Chiyonofuji).
* He retires too early for some reason (Bjorn Borg, Barry Sanders).
* The game changes, he can't make the adjustment, and he falls hard (George Mikan, Bill Elliott, Jeff Gordon, Barry Bonds, Royce Gracie).
* Somewhere along the line, something awful happens...a big upset, a crippling injury, a family tragedy, what have you...and he never recovers (Mike Tyson, Monica Seles).
* His head gets in the way, whether it's lack of focus, ego problems, bad work ethic, or just an unfortunate habit of making stupid decisions, and while the final tally is really good, it could've been even better (Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Andre Agassi, Evander Holyfield, Mario Lemieux
It seems to me you could make an argument for 1, 4, and 5 applying to Woods. Was that your intention, or were you making the point that he doesn't really fall into any of those categories, because he is still so good?
  #235  
Old 05-12-2013, 07:45 PM
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Well, Tiger just won his third stroke play PGA event out of four tries so far this year, and he's regained the World #1 spot. He still has a lot of room for improvement, but it's pretty clear that his game is back to the point where he just needs a good putting week to win a major, and he's starting to have good putting weeks more often than not.
And now he's won the Players, with an average putting week at best. He even put one in the drink to keep it interesting.

I don't know how many majors he'll win this year, but he's clearly back to dominating the golf world. It's now just a matter of being on his game during the week of a major.
  #236  
Old 05-12-2013, 07:51 PM
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And his opponents are clearly back to falling apart during crunch time. Sergio birdies #16, and the playoff is a crapshoot.
  #237  
Old 05-12-2013, 08:19 PM
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And his opponents are clearly back to falling apart during crunch time. Sergio birdies #16, and the playoff is a crapshoot.
??? Sergio did birdie 16.

If you meant 17, he was trying very hard to do just that, which is why he went for the sucker pin.

That's what Tiger does --- he forces the other players to take risks, because pars won't beat him. Sometimes the risks pay off; most of the time, they don't.
  #238  
Old 05-13-2013, 06:48 AM
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Yes, meant #17.

And mostly the other players fail, because they aren't all that good. And they only had that chance because Mr. Frontrunner chunked it into the water himself a few holes earlier, but nobody (once again) took advantage. I was hoping that we would have a new top gun by now, but the one guy who appeared to be on his way to becoming just that (McIlroy) has been very inconsistent (tho 2 majors and his young age still gives me hope).
  #239  
Old 05-13-2013, 08:14 AM
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Yes, Tiger is again The Man. But I agree with DiFool - it is indeed tough to be counting on the likes of Lingmerth, Maggert, Streelman, or even Sergio to press him down the stretch.

Tiger really showed his mindset when he dunked one on 14, then hit it into greenside jail on 15 - only to chip it stiff for the up and down. He seems to have his mental toughness back, which makes him close to unbeatable.

He can stick with just about anyone off the tee with a frigging 5-wood, and is hitting his irons stiffer than anyone. To wrap up the package, his putting has been solid since whichever tourney that was down in Fla. If Tiger isn't spraying it off the tee, putting himself in jail with his irons, or missing putting opportunities, he is just about impossible to beat. He can recover from any single bad shot or bad hole. When his head wasn't in it, e was string together bad holes and missed opportunities. Not happening these days

Early on I thought this was going to turn out to be Tiger v Rory. Well, I was half right!

As a confirmed Tiger disliker (and Jack fan), my only hope at this point is that he not win majors. On the other hand, I've realized the foolishness of not picking him in my regular pools. So as much as I was cheering against Tiger and for anyone who had a chance to beat him, I made money off him.
  #240  
Old 05-13-2013, 12:12 PM
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Sergio doesn't need pressure from Tiger to choke away his chances.
  #241  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:27 PM
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I assume Wood's next tourney will be The Memorial at J. Friggin' Nicklaus' course in Ohio in 2 weeks. Woods has won it.... 5 count 'em 5 times... including last year's. Then the US Open.
  #242  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:44 AM
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Early on I thought this was going to turn out to be Tiger v Rory. Well, I was half right!
Funny how so many people were saying that the other players had caught up to Tiger, and he would never dominate again. Now that he's dominating, the other players are chumps again. People would rather admit that they were wrong about everybody else than admit they were wrong about Tiger, but he really is that good.

And I wouldn't count Rory out so soon. Don't forget he was missing cuts right and left last year, but then he started playing brilliant golf, breaking Jack's scoring record in the PGA, and winning a couple of very strong FedEx playoff events. He's the real deal; he just isn't as consistent as Tiger.

Right now, I think Rory's best is still a little better than Tiger's best, but Tiger's off weeks are better than Rory's off weeks.

But that's right now. Rory is still very young, and Tiger is still improving, as shown by his ability to hit two perfect draws to close out the tournament on the 72nd hole yesterday (as Brandel Chamblee could have told you, he wasn't able to hit a draw just a few weeks ago). It will be very interesting to watch both players' progress in honing their games. If either of them are on, the rest of the field will be playing for second. If both of them are playing well the same week, then we might get some great duels.
  #243  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:28 AM
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If both of them are playing well the same week, then we might get some great duels.
I guess this is at the heart of my dislike of Tiger (in addition to my thinking him an asshole - independent of his sexual/marital activities.)

As a young golf fan in the 60s-70s, it seemed as though hardly a week would go by without the titans battling it out down the stretch. Nicklaus, Player, Watson, Trevino week in and week out, year in and year out. Someone like Green or Irwin could consistently throw up a couple of outrageous tourneys per year, and someone like Miller would have a couple of unbeatable seasons.

But when Tiger is at his best, he wins half the tourneys he enters. Yes, he is an amazing golfer. Yes, when he is on he is the most dominating athlete ever. Yes, he is NEVER out of a hole/round/tournament, no matter how much trouble he is in at some point. But IMO - and I realize I am in the vast minority on this - having one guy dominate so predictably makes for boring golf.

What other superstars have battled with Tiger? Y.E. Yang? Rocco? Sergio a couple of decades ago at Medinah? So yeah - I am perversely criticizing Tiger for being so much better than everyone else, as well as criticizing everyone else for not stepping up.

I know ratings soar when Tiger is in a tourney, and even moreso if he is in contention on Sunday. In countless ways, Tiger has been fantastic for golf. But for my viewing pleasure, I far prefer the drama of a Tigerless tourney.
  #244  
Old 05-14-2013, 09:25 AM
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Chicken and egg Tony, potato, potaato. You see Tiger win and it's because of his awesome talent. I see Tiger win, and while yes he has been great (and still can be, on occasion), I see him winning more because other people fall apart when things are close. This isn't like 2000-2001 when he is lapping the entire field twice. Heck you yourself admitted as much when you said above that people have to play their best to beat him, but in trying to do so, they fail. Funny how nerves and choking never stopped the likes of Trevino or Watson from beating Jack when things were tight, isn't it? Instead they would roll in long putts or chip in from off the green when the chips were down-when was the last time someone beat Tiger by pulling off one of those miracle shots (as in the ones which kept beating Greg Norman)? Don't you find that a bit...odd?
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
Chicken and egg Tony, potato, potaato. You see Tiger win and it's because of his awesome talent. I see Tiger win, and while yes he has been great (and still can be, on occasion), I see him winning more because other people fall apart when things are close. This isn't like 2000-2001 when he is lapping the entire field twice. Heck you yourself admitted as much when you said above that people have to play their best to beat him, but in trying to do so, they fail. Funny how nerves and choking never stopped the likes of Trevino or Watson from beating Jack when things were tight, isn't it? Instead they would roll in long putts or chip in from off the green when the chips were down-when was the last time someone beat Tiger by pulling off one of those miracle shots (as in the ones which kept beating Greg Norman)? Don't you find that a bit...odd?
No, what I find odd is the argument that Jack > Tiger because so many people beat him.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:18 AM
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No, what I find odd is the argument that Jack > Tiger because so many people beat him.
That's certainly not an argument I ever made. Nor would I ever say Jack or Tiger were greater than each other, because I don't know how that could be assessed. I sure would've liked to see them go head to head in their respective primes, tho.

Things I feel I can say with some comfort:
-Tiger has been more more dominant at various points of his career and for a longer time than Jack ever was. Whether that is due to Tiger being better than Jack, the level of competition, or a combination of the two, I don't know.
-Jack has the most majors. But in no way did he dominate golf in any way approaching Tiger's dominance.
-I liked Jack better than I like Tiger. As such, I hope Tiger does not reach/pass Jack's majors. Hell, he's going to have just about every other record by the time he finishes. But, even if he does, I'll still have liked Jack better.
-I personaly do not enjoy any sport when one party so clearly dominates. As a longtime Bulls/NBA fan, I found myself getting bored as the Bulls piled up their 5th and 6th championships. As awesome as Jordan and the team were throughout the run, I found it far more exciting as they had to claw their way past Cleveland, Boston, and Detroit...

My suspicion is that Tiger is a freak of nature; I suspect he would have dominated any era of golf (tho I suspect his dominance would have been somewhat less in several earlier eras. Mickelson is impressive, but he is no Snead, Hogan, Nelson...) Who knows - if Tiger didn't exist, perhaps we would be praising the drama of battles between the titans Mickleson, Singh, etc...

Also, could Tiger have even existed in previous eras? Were there athletes trained from the crib in earlier times? Does some portion of Tiger's success depend on modern equipment and golf course design?
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:43 AM
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Also, could Tiger have even existed in previous eras?
http://voices.yahoo.com/african-amer...-12081041.html

Last edited by TonySinclair; 05-15-2013 at 07:44 AM.
  #248  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:47 AM
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No, what I find odd is the argument that Jack > Tiger because so many people beat him.
You honestly and truly don't. get. it. I'm through wasting my time with you.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:36 AM
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You honestly and truly don't. get. it. I'm through wasting my time with you.
Promise?
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:30 AM
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Of course I'm well aware of the PGA's racist history, but that is not at all what I was talking about.

I think every major sport had some racial restrictions at some time or another. Instead, I was suggesting a potential impact of the manner in which youth are trained, and the quality and availability of equipment and facilities.
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