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  #201  
Old 07-04-2013, 03:00 AM
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Operation "Screw Gravity" is a success!

Space Station Goliath is now orbiting 120,000 kilometres above Kerbin. The game chugged a bit during launch, but it's going fine now that I've gotten rid of all the booster jets and booster rockets.
  #202  
Old 07-04-2013, 12:07 PM
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Nice!
  #203  
Old 07-04-2013, 05:15 PM
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I managed to put all my space station parts together, but there's some glitch with the cupola which is preventing the last piece from properly docking and all becoming one ship. Fuck.

Crapstation 1.
  #204  
Old 07-04-2013, 06:38 PM
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How are you doing the docking? I still haven't figured that out. I think I have finally designed a decent heavy lift vehicle but putting the thing together is another matter.
  #205  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:45 PM
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From the wealth of experience I've gained from doing all of 3 dockings...
First I remapped the docking controls. They have translation and rotation both mapped to the left hand and you switch with the spacebar, I moved the translations to the right hand. Also make sure you have RCS and ASAS.
To get an encounter just get the orbits close, then match the inclinations, then match one of the apsises and put the other one just inside or outside depending if you have to catch up of fall back. Eventually you'll be within a km. Make sure your navball is displaying Target and then try to line up your prograde to the target prograde. Switch your camera to chase, and just take it slow. Line up both both ships and slowly bring one in.

ETA: Oh and your docking ports must be the same size. I learned that the hard way. And final contact should be at like 0.1 meters per second, barely moving.

Last edited by PacifistPorcupine; 07-04-2013 at 08:46 PM.
  #206  
Old 07-05-2013, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
How are you doing the docking? I still haven't figured that out. I think I have finally designed a decent heavy lift vehicle but putting the thing together is another matter.
1. Get the two ships into circular orbits, one higher than the other, and select the other ship as your target.
2. At your ascending or descending node, create a maneuver node. Add thrust north or south until the orbits are at the same angle.
3. Perform the maneuver, and cancel the node. Your ships will now be in parallel orbits.

4. Create a new maneuver node. Add thrust east or west until the new, elliptical orbit will graze the orbit of the other ship. Then drag the node itself east or west along your orbit, until the two intercept markers for the two ships are aligned at the point where the orbits meet.
5. Perform the maneuver, and cancel the node. Your ships will now be at the same place, but not at the same velocity.

6. Create a new maneuver node where the orbits meet. Add thrust east or west until your new orbit is matched to the other ship's orbit. You may need to add some thrust towards or away from the planet if the orbits aren't perfectly circular.
7. Perform the maneuver, and cancel the node. Your ships will now be at the same place at approximately the same velocity.

8. Go to the staging view and select the docking port you want to dock at as your target, if you're close enough. If not, you'll have to do this later.

9. Your navball should now be showing your speed and position relative to your target. Find the retrograde velocity vector and use it to finish cancelling your speed relative to your target.

10. Aim your ship at the target and slowly fly towards it. You can turn the RCS on and use the "H" and "N" keys to increase and decrease your speed.

11. While RCS is active, use the "I", "J", "K" and "L" keys to align your position vector and your velocity vector.

12. Turn RCS off to turn the ship, and turn it on to change the ship's direction. Repeat this process until you're facing the same direction as the docking port and moving towards the docking port.

13. When you get close to the docking port, your ship will snap to it. Once your ship is wobbling back and forth over it, you just have to wait.
  #207  
Old 07-05-2013, 04:49 AM
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For your first docking, try something small. It's much easier than docking two large things together.

Also when you dock, making sure your RCS thrusters are balanced around the center of gravity of your craft will make life a lot simpler. If it's not, you'll tend to get rotation any time you reorient yourself.

Finally, and as PacifistPorcupine mentioned, I highly recommend using the chase camera whenever you're lining up your final approach. It makes adjusting your position much, much more intuitive.
  #208  
Old 07-05-2013, 09:06 PM
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So just how stupid am I? Turns out the answer is "very." I put one of the docking ports on the central hub inside out. Have to start from scratch.
  #209  
Old 07-05-2013, 10:28 PM
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It's the Kerbal way!
  #210  
Old 07-05-2013, 11:01 PM
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I'm taking the opportunity to redesign my station, to make it better. Scratch that, to make it bigger.
  #211  
Old 07-05-2013, 11:06 PM
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I'm taking the opportunity to redesign my station, to make it better. Scratch that, to make it bigger.
I'm confused.

How is bigger not better?

  #212  
Old 07-06-2013, 08:52 AM
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I've just made my second docking with Goliath One. The first was merely a proof of concept, but this time I was delivering three additional crew and sixteen tons of rocket fuel.
  #213  
Old 07-06-2013, 11:48 AM
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I am wondering, because it will be a while before I can build a space station, can you attach solar panels to a landing strut? It would be cool if you can get a solar array to deploy once attached to a space station.
  #214  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:01 PM
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I am wondering, because it will be a while before I can build a space station, can you attach solar panels to a landing strut? It would be cool if you can get a solar array to deploy once attached to a space station.
Solar panels work like the ladders do: there's a single cheap, immobile version, and the rest can be deployed from a little box. Trying to launch with the solar panels deployed is a good way to get them ripped off your ship.
  #215  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:34 PM
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As Grumman says, nearly all solar panels are deployable. Either manually by right clicking on it or by binding it to a key in the VAB. See those two little tabs at the top when building the ship? One of them is titled "Parts" and the other something else. That something else tab allows you to hotkey items. You can make all the panels open at the same time if you want or just part of them. You can create whatever combination of actions which will be triggered by the press of one key.
  #216  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:02 PM
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So I managed to put up my new core and a power segment. I'll probably add another power segment, then some fuel storage and a docking bay.

Launching the core.
Current state,
  #217  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:13 AM
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Here's my dedicated tanker. It weighs a total of 136 tons including payload and can deliver 28 tons to orbit.

The jet boosters lift the rocket to approximately 13,000 metres, before being shut off and jettisoned.
The liquid rocket boosters and Mainsail then kick in, and jettison each booster in turn using asparagus staging. This is sufficient to reach orbit.
Once a stable orbit has been established, all remaining fuel is pumped into the top section and the ship separates. The atomic engines and RCS thrusters are used for all orbital maneuvering.

Last edited by Grumman; 07-07-2013 at 04:16 AM.
  #218  
Old 07-08-2013, 10:56 PM
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This thread totally convinced me to buy the game. It's kind of addictive, but I did cheat to get to orbit (i.e. I watched one of the linked tutorials to learn how the flight controls work.) And it did work! No picture at the moment, but I have a couple live satellites in circular orbits, one with enough fuel to think about going to Mun. Exciting stuff!
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  #219  
Old 07-09-2013, 01:48 AM
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This thread totally convinced me to buy the game. It's kind of addictive, but I did cheat to get to orbit (i.e. I watched one of the linked tutorials to learn how the flight controls work.) And it did work! No picture at the moment, but I have a couple live satellites in circular orbits, one with enough fuel to think about going to Mun. Exciting stuff!
That's a good start. At the moment I'm working on a composite spacecraft that will eventually fly to another planet. Hopefully 12,800 litres of rocket fuel and twelve atomic engines will be enough to get there and back.
  #220  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:07 AM
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I have just launched my first section of a space station. It will also serve for a docking test bed since I still haven't been able to do it as of yet.
  #221  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:23 AM
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A word of warning: it's been stated by the lead developer that saved games from the current version will be incompatible with the new one (which will come out any day now).

I started a new save last week where I'm doing things more like a space program. In the past I tended to do large launches with a single goal in mind. Maybe it'd be two launches if I wanted to land somewhere distant but needed some extra fuel for a return trip. In this save, I'm restricting every launch to be small and capable only of going to low orbit.

So I've built a basic station with a couple fuel modules, a crew module, and a small ship. I've launched another fuel module and had the ship drag that out to the Mun to start a station there. The plan is to build stations like that around many of the planets/moons and use them as staging areas for the construction of colonies on the bodies they orbit and whatnot.

But being pretty early in the process and with that update coming, I'm going to stop now so that starting over won't be too painful.
  #222  
Old 07-09-2013, 06:48 PM
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Oh well, I'm still in the "learn to do shit" phase. If I have to start my space station over it's no great loss. And landing on the moons, too. If I had a mega base out in one of the planets I'd be a bit peeved.
  #223  
Old 07-09-2013, 09:27 PM
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I got a little fed up and started cheating. Mechjeb 2 will dock things so I started messing with it. It is still pretty hard to do it and I am not sure how to change crew on the space station.
  #224  
Old 07-10-2013, 09:40 AM
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Is it your use of MechJeb that you consider cheating?

I've landed on the Mun twice but it was mostly MechJeb and I've landed on Minmus once not using MechJeb at all, just maneuver nodes and seat of the pants flying. I was actually pretty proud of that.

Since then I've tried two manual landings on the Mun. I've come close both times but I've always had just too much lateral velocity and my ship tips over in slow motion. What makes it especially hard is that I've never been able to get quick save to work. I've verified my key bindings but hitting F5 or F9 doesn't do anything. So every time I crash my ship, I have to start back on the launch pad.

I've boosted space station cores into orbit and only then found out that putting Kerbals in a habitat(?) module doesn't allow them to control the craft. I had designed it to leave the space station core with a couple of Kerbals in orbit and then one Kerbal could return to Kerbin in the very top stage.

I've put modified cores in orbit with a remote control module but I haven't worked up the courage to try docking yet. Does anyone know if the remote control modules work without a communications antenna?

All in all I'm having a blast with this game.

I keep reading that the next release is coming out soon. Anyone know what's being changed in this release? I've hit the KSP web page but I've just seen developers comments on what they're doing this week.
  #225  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:11 AM
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I've put modified cores in orbit with a remote control module but I haven't worked up the courage to try docking yet. Does anyone know if the remote control modules work without a communications antenna?
They do. At the moment the antennas are just there to look pretty.
  #226  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:15 AM
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You have to hold F9 for a couple seconds to quick load. That's my only guess for why it wouldn't be working for you.

In the first update that had the Mun, there was no saving (or maneuver nodes). So like you're experiencing, crashing on landing meant starting again at the launchpad. When they introduced quick save and quick load I wasn't sure how I felt about it because I liked that all crashes were final. And not using the quick save wasn't an option. If it's in the game, I'll use it (Which is why I won't ever install Mechjeb. I don't think I'd have the discipline to have it at my disposal and not use it for everything). But having saving restricted to just a single quick save (unless you copy your persistence file) seems like it relieves a bit of the frustration without entirely taking away the sense of risk.

The only largish things I remember being included in the update are crew management (maybe transferring Kerbals between docked craft without EVA?), ASAS that doesn't constantly over correct, and a new look to the Mun. I'm suspicious that the Spaceport/installing mods will be integrated directly into the game in this update but that's a total guess and probably not happening yet.
  #227  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:22 AM
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You can't save while thrusting. Try not making any changes to your speed and orientation while pressing F5 and making sure you're not accelerating time either.
  #228  
Old 07-10-2013, 01:07 PM
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...I've landed on Minmus once not using MechJeb at all, just maneuver nodes and seat of the pants flying. I was actually pretty proud of that.
Seat of the pants flying: it's the Kerbal way.

(I still have yet to use MechJeb myself. It's just my mouse, my keyboard, and the NavBall. And a few *cough* horrifying disasters. But also success! Wheee!)

Last edited by Knorf; 07-10-2013 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Close parenth
  #229  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:54 PM
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Is it your use of MechJeb that you consider cheating?

I've landed on the Mun twice but it was mostly MechJeb and I've landed on Minmus once not using MechJeb at all, just maneuver nodes and seat of the pants flying. I was actually pretty proud of that.
Yeah, I think that MechJeb is a cheat. And until I used it for docking I hadn't used it to do anything that I haven't done myself and after watching one of the dockings I don't know if I have the patience for it. MechJeb 2.0 is entirely different than 1.9.
  #230  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:02 PM
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The 0.21 update is in its final stage. For the 0.20 update, it took five days from this point to go public.
  #231  
Old 07-10-2013, 04:43 PM
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The 0.21 update is in its final stage. For the 0.20 update, it took five days from this point to go public.
Any idea what is being added?
  #232  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:22 PM
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Any idea what is being added?
Patch notes.
  #233  
Old 07-10-2013, 10:30 PM
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Thanks MichaelEmouse, I got quick save to work. I'm pretty sure trying to save while under thrust was my problem.

I finally made a manual landing on the Mun. It only took me four tries with quick save. In just about every failed landing the capsule survived, and every time it came to rest with the crew hatched blocked. Admittedly, I put ladder rungs below the crew hatch which may have kept the capsule from rolling. Anyone else notice this?

Is there some ground radar that I'm missing? Unless I'm landing in the ocean on Kerbin, I have no idea how high I am above the surface. The altimeter shows MSL but when I'm landing I want to know AGL.

With Grumman's answer I believe that I have a viable candidate for docking in orbit but my day off is almost over, I think I'll refrain from sacrificing any more Kerbals or destroying more equipment... at least for tonight.

MSL = Mean Sea Level
AGL = Above Ground level
  #234  
Old 07-10-2013, 11:06 PM
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Is there some ground radar that I'm missing? Unless I'm landing in the ocean on Kerbin, I have no idea how high I am above the surface. The altimeter shows MSL but when I'm landing I want to know AGL.

The in-pod view of at least one of the command pods gives you AGL. Also, Mech Jeb 2.0 does, I'm not sure about the previous Mech Jeb. The AGL altitude is one of the main reasons to use Mech Jeb.

Also, you can rely on the shadow though that's a lot more chancy.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 07-10-2013 at 11:09 PM.
  #235  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:20 PM
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I can't be the only one who wants to get a big ass laser and carve a giant '15' into the side of Duna, can I?
  #236  
Old 07-12-2013, 05:34 AM
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I played this game back when it was free, and while I could see the promise of it, everything was just too difficult for me - without any kind of assistance, it was too hard to get in a stable orbit.

Nevertheless, I put in many, many hours. When I got a little money, I though I'd jump right back in, and I'm glad to see that so much has gone into it.

I've already managed to get a few satellites in circular (+- 5km) orbit, and I've got a simple yet charming 3-stage rocket that's capable of hitting the Mun - though I haven't done that yet. Space stations and stuff, though, that's quite intimidating.

I want to start by mirroring the progression of the real-life space program, which means something like this:

- Orbital satellite - done.
- Man in orbit - done.
- Lunar orbiter - in progress.
- Probes/orbiters to Minmus, other planets
- Controlled lunar landing w/ probe (Surveyor, Luna 14)
- Piloted travel to and from the moon
- Assemble a space station

From there, I suppose that my ultimate goal is to start sending things to other planets and then bringing them back again, and ultimately to set up permanent orbital space stations around every planet. And develop some space-planes.

I'm still trying for a visceral appreciation of how transfer orbits work, and how to set up an orbit. I've done it reliably enough, but there's always something improvised about it; I never have it down to formula.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:21 AM
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And, kapow, I'm orbiting Mun. Another triumph for my space program!
  #238  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:33 AM
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I'm still trying for a visceral appreciation of how transfer orbits work, and how to set up an orbit. I've done it reliably enough, but there's always something improvised about it; I never have it down to formula.
An orbit is a combination of three variables: a place, a time and a velocity. Your basic transfer orbit works by using two burns: one to put you on a ballistic flight to the right place at the right time; and one once you get there to give you the right velocity.

Try getting into a circular, equatorial orbit and creating a maneuver node. Drag the simulated burns in different directions and see how the resultant ballistic path changes.

Burning east or west raises or lowers the height on the opposite side of your orbit.
Burning north or south (perpendicular to your current velocity) changes the inclination of your orbit.
Burning up raises the orbit ahead of you and lowers it behind you, while burning down does the opposite.
  #239  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:20 AM
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An orbit is a combination of three variables: a place, a time and a velocity. Your basic transfer orbit works by using two burns: one to put you on a ballistic flight to the right place at the right time; and one once you get there to give you the right velocity.

Try getting into a circular, equatorial orbit and creating a maneuver node. Drag the simulated burns in different directions and see how the resultant ballistic path changes.

Burning east or west raises or lowers the height on the opposite side of your orbit.
Burning north or south (perpendicular to your current velocity) changes the inclination of your orbit.
Burning up raises the orbit ahead of you and lowers it behind you, while burning down does the opposite.
Let's say I want to end up in a circular orbit of 120,000 km. What's the best way to do that from the ground? At what point do I stop going up and start going east, or start just coasting up to my apoapsis?
  #240  
Old 07-12-2013, 09:11 PM
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Let's say I want to end up in a circular orbit of 120,000 km. What's the best way to do that from the ground? At what point do I stop going up and start going east, or start just coasting up to my apoapsis?
I'm certainly no expert but I'll venture an answer. I'm assuming you want to get into a circular orbit of 120,000 m or 120 km, not 120,000 km.

The simplest most straightforward way to get into orbit is launch your rocket and start your gravity turn (going to the 45 deg point of the 90 deg line on your navball) at 10,000 m. Once you get to 45/90 keep it there. Switch to Map view and track your apoapsis. When it gets to 120,000 m, kill your engines. While you're coasting up, set a maneuver node at Ap. For the node, increase your prograde burn until you see your projected obrbit circularize. Get to the maneuver node and perform your burn. You should now be in a relatively circular orbit.

That's the basic formula, of course, the devil is in the details.

While a 45/90 deg gravity turn at 10 km is simple and straightforward, it's not optimal. From comments I've read I've been trying to flatten out (more towards the horizon line on your navball) while I'm still burning and approaching my desired Ap. If you want to get a better idea of the optimal path you would have to ask someone else.

To get the best results, you want to turn following the 90 deg line (or 270 if you really want to know) on your navball. If I have a rocket with only a little rotation, I may be able to point it in the right direction but unless the 90 line is pointing directly right/east, it's a little harder to get into orbit and I'll be off the plane of the eliptic. I always want my rockets to rotate as little as possible during launch to orbit.

It took me a while to learn that not only can you adjust your directional burns on the node, you can also drag it back and forth along your current path to see how it changes your projected path. I try to set the node at Ap and then take the projected burn time and cut it in half. That's about how long before I reach the node that I start my burn. Of course you have to make sure that you've got your navball centered on the blue target.

Sorry for the long answer but that's been my experience. From what I've read in this thread there are a lot better pilots then me out there.
  #241  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:48 AM
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In case there's anyone else like me who's been following this thread but uneasy about paying full price - there is about 5 hours left in the Steam Summer Sale's discount on this game, down to $13.79, and then it'll move to the "yesterday's deals" section at the bottom of the page for another day, IIRC. Often, popular games go back up on sale near the end of the sale period (which ends on the 22nd), so if you miss this, check the sales again later and see if it doesn't get a repeat offering.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 07-15-2013 at 06:49 AM.
  #242  
Old 07-15-2013, 12:08 PM
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This game is more than worth it at that price. Since it isn't finished yet, you will keep getting new stuff for free. And I say new stuff because what you get to start with will keep you plenty busy until the campaign is rolled out.

Last edited by Ike Witt; 07-15-2013 at 12:08 PM.
  #243  
Old 07-15-2013, 01:01 PM
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I paid full price for the game about two months ago and have zero regrets.
  #244  
Old 07-15-2013, 01:16 PM
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Duck Dodgers in the 24½th Century!


Has a reference to "Kerbal miles." (At around 2'30.)

I didn't remember that!
  #245  
Old 07-15-2013, 10:18 PM
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Not available due to copyright claim.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:44 AM
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Not available due to copyright claim.
Ah, bummer. Not surprising, though.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:04 AM
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Damn you, Steam sale!!!

Stayed up way to late last night trying to figure things out - I admit, I watched a quick "how to build a basic rocket" tutorial because I was tired of killing my astronauts, and after three successful manned "up and down" launches I decided to experiment. I had a few questions however -

What component do you use to connect fuel tanks to each other either side-by-side or radially?

If you put a tank on top of another, do they feed into the engines automatically or is there a component you need between the tanks to get them to be linked? Same question for a side-by-side or radial connection.

The control ring for unmanned launches (sorry, don't remember all the "official" names) - do you need one between each stage or just one at the top?

Action key groupings on the side of the screen; I finally figured out how to change their activation order so I don't fire my probe off the top of the rocket while it's on the pad, however after hitting the space bar to get the initial launch, I can't seem to get the rest to work at all and have to right-click the component I want to activate manually. Is the number of each grouping supposed to correspond to a hot-key and if so how do I get that to work? This is my biggest current gripe.

One observation - do not try to launch a rocket with 6 SRBs around the main stange with 6 more SRBs attached to third stage unless you want to wipe out your complex (it didnt really of course, but the explosion was quite nice).

Still haven't tried and actual orbit yet, my current best is 800+/-km up and down with a probe. Feels good.

Last edited by Werekoala; 07-16-2013 at 09:06 AM.
  #248  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:45 AM
eltro102 is offline
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I found a very cool tool for ksp: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/...-Sequencing%21

it allows you to find low dV ways to get to other planets by computing flybys, just like a real space program
be warned though, space is hard so computing flybys can take more than a minute (or 5)

Last edited by eltro102; 07-16-2013 at 10:46 AM.
  #249  
Old 07-16-2013, 01:03 PM
Grumman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werekoala View Post
What component do you use to connect fuel tanks to each other either side-by-side or radially?
Radial decouplers under the Structure tab are the most obvious method.

Quote:
If you put a tank on top of another, do they feed into the engines automatically or is there a component you need between the tanks to get them to be linked? Same question for a side-by-side or radial connection.
Tanks feed into each other automatically, except when separated by decouplers. I'm fairly certain all other components allow automatic cross-feed.

Quote:
The control ring for unmanned launches (sorry, don't remember all the "official" names) - do you need one between each stage or just one at the top?
You need to have one connected to any spaceship you want to control. If you don't care what happens to the lower stages once you separate them from your ship, they don't need their own computer.

Quote:
Action key groupings on the side of the screen; I finally figured out how to change their activation order so I don't fire my probe off the top of the rocket while it's on the pad, however after hitting the space bar to get the initial launch, I can't seem to get the rest to work at all and have to right-click the component I want to activate manually. Is the number of each grouping supposed to correspond to a hot-key and if so how do I get that to work? This is my biggest current gripe.
You keep hitting the space bar. Each press activates the next stage.
  #250  
Old 07-16-2013, 01:17 PM
eltro102 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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check if your mouse is the staging icon area bit during flight, this disables staging (and turns the little light near the bottom purple)
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