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  #251  
Old 07-16-2013, 09:53 PM
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Ok, I figured out staging, amazing how helpful that is.

After an evening of work I managed to send a probe on a close Munar flyby and out of the system. I figured out explosive brackets for SRBs and the like. And I completed my first stable orbit flying seat-of-the-pants and using the Tracking map. Of course, the apoapsis is out past the Mun, while the near end tops at just 70km - sliiiightly eliptical - but it seems stable so that'll work for now.

No Kerbin were harmed in the making of this picture, strictly probes for now.

Last edited by Werekoala; 07-16-2013 at 09:54 PM.
  #252  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:42 AM
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And I completed my first stable orbit flying seat-of-the-pants and using the Tracking map. Of course, the apoapsis is out past the Mun, while the near end tops at just 70km - sliiiightly eliptical - but it seems stable so that'll work for now.

No Kerbin were harmed in the making of this picture, strictly probes for now.
You're making good progress, but remember that an orbit that approaches that of a celestial body is not necessarily stable in the long run - eventually the orbits may align so that your satellite is flung by the Mun's gravity off on some unintended course.

If you want to enter a circular orbit, either perform a prograde (forwards) burn at your apoapsis or retrograde (backwards) burn at your periapsis. The first will raise your periapsis, the second will lower your apoapsis.
  #253  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:25 AM
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Yup circular orbit next. I used the last fumes from my booster on a retrograde burn to get the one I got.
  #254  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:18 PM
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I continued my space station attempts going, though more slowly. It's mostly done, it's missing one more docking arm. Getting the docking arm up there is a bitch though, because the asymmetrical bits that stick out make the fucker handle horribly under RCS.

Almost done.
  #255  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:34 AM
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Next problem (actually an ongoing one) - I seem to have trouble with my larger rockets "wobbling" between stages sometimes, usually on the taller models. Many times they may even wobble between stages on the launch pad. Using the ground clamps helps that problem, but once they launch things get way too Jello-like to control and I lose many of them.

Is this a problem of stacking stages without necking them down using the cone-shaped modules between sections, or is it something else? Do I need to change direction and start building shorter, squatter designs?
  #256  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:10 PM
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Next problem (actually an ongoing one) - I seem to have trouble with my larger rockets "wobbling" between stages sometimes, usually on the taller models. Many times they may even wobble between stages on the launch pad. Using the ground clamps helps that problem, but once they launch things get way too Jello-like to control and I lose many of them.

Is this a problem of stacking stages without necking them down using the cone-shaped modules between sections, or is it something else? Do I need to change direction and start building shorter, squatter designs?
more struts will fix this, although you should be using asparagus staging to improve efficiency and have squat-er rockets

also try having a ring of the cube trusses near the join on both sides and link them together with struts
  #257  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:43 PM
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Ahhh struts. The duct tape of space engineering.

I've found it useful to have somewhat bullet-shaped ships with stage 1 being short and narrow. Stage 2 being long, narrow and right behind stage 1. Stage 3 in multi engines layout around stage 2. Stage 4 around stage 3. My rockets thus stay together (mostly, most of the time).
  #258  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:44 PM
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Asparagus staging...?
  #259  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:19 PM
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Asparagus staging...?
Using multiple large tanks and fuel lines to improve performance. Advanced Staging is a good video to explain various ways to design your boosters.
  #260  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:04 PM
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I've been messing about in the demo - there's a bit too much slowdown for me to consider moving to the paid version, but I've still got my eyes on a Mun-shot. Right now, the best I can do is get an orbiter to LKO with half a small tank of fuel remaining. I've tried more stages, but all my rockets taller than two fuel tanks high fall to the horizontal and stop climbing before they've made it out of the atmosphere.
  #261  
Old 07-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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While I'm waiting for 0.21, I'm experimenting with jet engines. I can build an exclusively jet-powered "rocket" that reaches an altitude of 100 kilometers, but I'm trying to find the smallest, lightest way to translate that into a Kerbal-carrying stable orbit.
  #262  
Old 07-19-2013, 07:41 PM
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I've been messing about in the demo - there's a bit too much slowdown for me to consider moving to the paid version...
Just fyi, the full version performs better.
  #263  
Old 07-19-2013, 08:00 PM
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While I'm waiting for 0.21, I'm experimenting with jet engines. I can build an exclusively jet-powered "rocket" that reaches an altitude of 100 kilometers, but I'm trying to find the smallest, lightest way to translate that into a Kerbal-carrying stable orbit.
Is your trajectory the same as a typical rocket? Because that would be impressive as hell. I spent a bit of time working on jet-powered SSTOs, but they were planes and the idea was to build up orbital horizontal velocity using jet engines but needed rockets to get up to orbital height.

Last edited by Mithras; 07-19-2013 at 08:00 PM.
  #264  
Old 07-19-2013, 09:13 PM
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Is your trajectory the same as a typical rocket?
It is. And I succeeded! My latest version, using an 11 ton jet stage and a 1.7 ton rocket stage (total 13.6 tons), put a Kerbal in orbit.
  #265  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:11 AM
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In case there's anyone else like me who's been following this thread but uneasy about paying full price - there is about 5 hours left in the Steam Summer Sale's discount on this game, down to $13.79, and then it'll move to the "yesterday's deals" section at the bottom of the page for another day, IIRC. Often, popular games go back up on sale near the end of the sale period (which ends on the 22nd), so if you miss this, check the sales again later and see if it doesn't get a repeat offering.
And it's available as a Flash Sale at the same price for another nearly 4 hours as of this posting time.
  #266  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:05 AM
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This is my jet propelled "rocket". I found it works better when launched at an angle like this, as it is rather unstable if you try to turn it while the seven turbojets are running.
  #267  
Old 07-20-2013, 04:42 PM
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Scott Manley takes 0.21 out for a test flight.
  #268  
Old 07-22-2013, 02:32 PM
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Although I don't play this, I was gonna recommend Scott's videos on this thread; he would make a great Doper, too. The best thirty seconds of that video is here.

(Edit: I tried to put it at 7:20 mark of the video....somehow, it refuses to go there.)

Last edited by Yeticus Rex; 07-22-2013 at 02:35 PM.
  #269  
Old 07-22-2013, 04:48 PM
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(Edit: I tried to put it at 7:20 mark of the video....somehow, it refuses to go there.)
The random dis of Luke Skywalker was funny.
  #270  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:06 PM
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Woot! 0.21 is up, and it lets you convert your old save files! Happy day!

In the meantime, I've successfully sent several probes to both Mun and Minmus. It's really not very difficult, if you overbuild your probes for a low centre of gravity and overbuild your rocket so that you're never low on fuel. I've also sent up a couple successful spaceplanes, but my design isn't good enough to get farther than low-Kerbal orbit and back. Also, my design and skill cumulatively aren't good enough to land on the runway — I made it to the runway one time before losing control and crashing in a giant fireball, and I've landed a couple of spaceplanes on normal land. It's a good start, anyway.

Also, sending probes to other planets is so very difficult! How have you guys managed to get enough precision to make it happen?
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  #271  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:27 PM
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Maneuver nodes are your friend.

Also, do check out the tutorials from Scott Manley on You Tube.

0.21! Hooray!
  #272  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:59 PM
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I am currently stuck in the hospital. Hopefully
I will be out of here tonight and play with the new version. Or it may have to wait
  #273  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:09 PM
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So I decided to start over. I did deorbit my station first, which meant pointing the rocket part out and throttling up. Made a nice set of explosions when it came down.
  #274  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:24 PM
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Here's my first Mün landing in V. 0.21!

Cheers for Bob, Corry, and Ferbart Kerman!

Of course Bob messed up his flag, so we had to use Ferbart's. What a tool.

The new Münarscape is a bit harder to land on; there's a lot less appropriately flat terrain for safe landing. You can see my lander is actually on quite a slope. The bottoms of craters are pretty flat for the most part, but there are a lot more craters now, so the terrain is quite rugged.

Incidentally, my save upgraded completely intact, as far as I can tell.

Next up: Duna Rover!

Last edited by Knorf; 07-24-2013 at 05:25 PM. Reason: always typos
  #275  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:31 PM
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I started over too, and am attempting a "recover everything" run. I've successfully deorbited everything that might become space junk, but some of them are still going splat upon landing.

Last edited by Grumman; 07-24-2013 at 05:34 PM.
  #276  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:21 PM
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Mech Jeb does not seem to be compatible with the upgrade.
  #277  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:27 AM
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I ended up buying the full version in the Steam sale, and I'm still working towards my goal of making a Munar flyby with only demo components (except I'm using remote control units instead of the command module). Last night I built a 3 stage rocket with serial staging to establish a baseline before I tried asparagus staging - similar to my old designs, but with FLT-400 fed liquid engines in place of solid boosters. Stage one was 4 FLT-400 fed engines attached radially, stage 2 was the single FLT-400 fed core, and stage 3 was a single FLT-200 fed orbiter. To cut a long story short, I had it thrust upwards as far as I could, and it looks like I may have accidentally launched my first Eve flyby.
  #278  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:12 AM
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So I've finally gotten around to noodling around with this, or at least the demo. As of yet, all I've managed to do is turn my very shallow parabola into a very TALL parabola, which looks sort of like a highly elliptical orbit, except that the "bottom" end of it is a few thousand meters underground. While it's fun to send Kerbonauts plummeting to their doom, I'm thinking that this fun cannot justify buying the full version if that's all I'll ever achieve.

I see many glowing reviews for this... Scott... Manley?'s tutorials. Do I actually have some hope of becoming a competent spaceman if I watch them, or am I simply meant to be a lowly earthKerbalman?
  #279  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:49 AM
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Monkey,

Watching Manley will help you. You can start a game in windowed mode and follow along, stopping and fast forwarding the video and the game.

We all go through what you're going through right now. It's a game with a significant learning curve. Although, unlike a lot of other games, going through the learning curve is fun.

Part of the fun with this game is understanding the principles at play, conceiving your ship and trying it out. Then you learn from that, better understand the principles, conceive a better ship and try something out again.


If you go into it with the mindset that your first try must be successful at accomplishing something major, you will be disappointed. Enjoy your screw-ups and learn from them.
  #280  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:58 AM
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If you go into it with the mindset that your first try must be successful at accomplishing something major, you will be disappointed. Enjoy your screw-ups and learn from them.
I agree. The funnest time you will ever have failing is in this game. I am getting ready to start failing again.
  #281  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:35 AM
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Thanks, Mouse. The truth is, this thread tended to make me think that there was me, smashing rockets into the earthKerbin, and then there was Everyone Else, sending missions to everywhere, building majestic space stations, actually getting into fucking orbit, and so on. If I'm actually fairly normal, then it starts to look like a viable proposition again.
  #282  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:42 PM
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Picked the game up yesterday... So much fun! I loaded one of the pre-made rockets and took it for a test drive, and was able to reach orbit. Then I started a new save and started experimenting. My first design, the Orbiter, worked pretty well. I got the Orbiter Mk 1 into space on the first shot, the Orbiter Mk 2 halfway around the world but not into orbit, and the Orbiter Mk 3 into full-on circular orbit (though it's weird, one end is lower than the other but the whole thing is circular). My rockets are apparently much bigger than average, if the people putting out 10 ton rockets are the norm; the Mk 3 weighs 100 tons and carries a front end weighing 6 tons.

So I started trying to go for Mun. The first Mk 3 I launched went into orbit with barely any fuel left, so I built bigger and bigger rockets (the Luna Mk 7 was a real monster: 3 of the largest fuel tanks, each leading to 4 rockets; each fuel tank is attached to 4 medium fuel tanks, each with its own rocket, and 4 solid-fuel rockets. But when the Luna Mk 9 could barely make it into orbit, I realized I was doing something wrong. I loaded up the Orbiter Mk 3, changed a few features, and shot the Mk X into space. The Orbiter series, for those who are curios, is a simple design: There's a huge tank, leading to 4 rockets. Attached are 4 medium tanks, each with their own rockets. Also attached are 4 solid fuel rockets (basically, it's 1 third of the Luna Mk 9). The command console sits on a smaller fuel tank attached to a nuclear engine. All 12 bottom rockets go off at once, firing the rocket into the air. The solid fuel rockets fall off first, followed by the 4 fuel tanks and smaller rockets. This happens at around 10,000 meters, by which point the rocket is travelling at ludicrous speeds. I then start to turn, which the now slimmer rocket is able to do. I complete my gravity turn and reach an aposis of about 150,000 meters using the rest of the huge fuel tank, which I then jettison. The nuclear rocket is able to stabilize a circular orbit of between 500,000 and 600,000 meters with a tiny sliver of its fuel.

I now have an Orbiter Mk X at 600,000 meters with a nearly full fuel tank. I think I can get it to Mun and back (and back is important, since the Orbiter series is manned). My goal is to get a stable Mun orbit, leave my rocket there for a while, then bring it back; we'll see if that's possible.

Once a Mun Orbit is complete, I'll see about using the Orbiter chassis to deliver a Mun Probe. It probably can't carry a lander (or at least, not a lander capable of leaving Mun) so I need to work on that.
  #283  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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I just want to give full props to the Mech Jeb team. New compatible version is already available. Although there may be an issue with auto docking. Just need upgraded fairings and all will be good.

Last edited by Ike Witt; 07-25-2013 at 02:47 PM.
  #284  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:54 PM
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I just want to give full props to the Mech Jeb team. New compatible version is already available. Although there may be an issue with auto docking. Just need upgraded fairings and all will be good.
You got a link Ike?
  #285  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:11 PM
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So I've finally gotten around to noodling around with this, or at least the demo. As of yet, all I've managed to do is turn my very shallow parabola into a very TALL parabola, which looks sort of like a highly elliptical orbit, except that the "bottom" end of it is a few thousand meters underground. While it's fun to send Kerbonauts plummeting to their doom, I'm thinking that this fun cannot justify buying the full version if that's all I'll ever achieve.

I see many glowing reviews for this... Scott... Manley?'s tutorials. Do I actually have some hope of becoming a competent spaceman if I watch them, or am I simply meant to be a lowly earthKerbalman?
I just created a rocket for you to try in the demo: design and staging. Note that that's two separate sets of three boosters, and only one set has the engines and fins. Make sure the fuel pipes are pumping fuel towards the engines and not away.

I have confirmed that this rocket reaches orbit with plenty of fuel to spare, and doesn't require throttling or anything like that.

Flight instructions:
1. Set throttle to full, press "t" to activate the automatic steering, hit space bar to start the engines.
2. Right-click on the engineless fuel tank, and hit space bar when it's empty to jettison it.
3. Around 12,000 meters, press "t" to turn off the automatic steering, tilt right to about 70 degrees from the horizontal, and hit "t" again.
4. When the boosters are empty, hit space bar jettison those too.
5. At 40,000 meters, press "x" to turn off the engine. Press "m" to go to the map mode, click on the apoapsis and create a maneuver node.
6. Drag the prograde burn icon until you have a visible periapsis and make sure it's above 70,000 meters.
7. Switch back to staging mode. Turn off the automatic steering again and turn to about 10 degrees from the horizontal.
8. Thirty seconds before the maneuver node, go to full throttle.
9. When your main rocket runs out of fuel, hit space bar twice to jettison it and start your next engine.
10. Switch to the map mode again, and when your periapsis is above 70,000 meters, hit "x" to cut the engine.
  #286  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:35 PM
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You got a link Ike?
Here you go. You want the one that ends in -72.

It is harder to get things into orbit. My previous build isn't getting quite as much up.
  #287  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:05 PM
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Here you go. You want the one that ends in -72.

It is harder to get things into orbit. My previous build isn't getting quite as much up.
Woot! Thanks
  #288  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:35 PM
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I upgraded to version .21 or at least Steam did, I didn't have a choice.

When I started the game I tried to go into a saved game and it brought up the dialog box asking if I wanted to convert my saved games. I had it go ahead and I started a previous saved game.

At the Space Center I went to the tracking station and checked on my flights in progress. They all looked to be there, including a lander sitting on the surface of the Mun. I switched control to the lander and found that the flat surface I had landed on before is now the inner slope of a crater.

As soon as I switched the the lander, I watched it tip over and break apart, sliding down the slope. Once the lander was finished breaking up, I hit escape and tried to return to the space center. Clicking the button didn't accomplish anything. I went to map view and looked for my other active craft. Clicking on other spacecraft I couldn't even get a 'set as target' let alone a 'switch to'. I couldn't even exit the game, I had to kill the task.

Long story short, I lost everything. I can load previously built rockets but the staging info is all in one line without stage breaks, I can't select parts and it won't let me launch or even exit.

It's not that big a deal, I didn't have anything spectacular and I can rebuild everything else, probably better but it's a little annoying.

I just wanted to warn people that your saved games might not convert.
  #289  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:24 PM
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Bah! Got a perfect moon-meeting burn, was gonna fly past it... and I warped too fast. Went right by it. Dunnu if I'll be able to meet it again in time to orbit...
  #290  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:48 PM
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I did it! Orbiter Mk X is now in stable orbit around the Mun!
  #291  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:55 PM
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I've made some significant progress towards my goal of building a reusable space plane with my most recent experiment. Pictured are two vehicles:

A docking test bed which can raise the front landing gear to lower the front rover wheels onto the ground. This is how I was able to drive it off the runway without engines, and what I intend to add to my future space plane.

A cargo hauler with vertical and horizontal docking ports. The vertical mount will be used to connect to a trailer carrying the various forms of fuel a space plane might require, and the horizontal mount is at the right height to dock with a side-mounted refuelling port on a plane.

Using these advances I will be able to land a space plane, taxi it off the runway, drive the hauler over and refuel it, taxi back onto the runway and take off again.
  #292  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:05 PM
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After orbiting the Mun, Bill Kerman guided his Orbiter Mk X back home. He landed safely with almost a quarter tank left, even though I made quite a few mistakes. The Orbiter Mk X might not be obsolete just yet!
  #293  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:14 PM
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Is anyone else noticing that the air is a little thicker?
  #294  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:03 PM
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I just created a rocket for you to try in the demo: design and staging. Note that that's two separate sets of three boosters, and only one set has the engines and fins. Make sure the fuel pipes are pumping fuel towards the engines and not away.
Ok, I think you're going to need to explain a little bit more about whats going on at the bottom of the rocket here. We've got six of the smaller fuel tanks in two banks of three around a central bigger fuel tank. Three of those small tanks have engines and fins. Fuel lines connect the three engined tanks to the central tank; fuel lines also connect each non-engined tank to the engined tank. Have I got that right?

Does the central tank have an engine as well? Also, it looks like the upper tank has the small engine on it, right? Also, why did you have the guidance module connected to the capsule with an explosive decoupler?

FTR, I just tried this and what happened was that I had a very, very long burn that more or less put me into orbital altitudes itself. I then jettisoned the engineless tanks and discovered... that I had nothing to run the engines on! Oops. I jettisoned the engined tanks, and then the empty central tank with its handy engine as well, turned on the small engine, decided I wanted to land sometime instead of sending yet another Kerbal off to the far reaches of the solar system (Yes, I have managed escape velocity, heh), discovered that a) I couldn't decouple the upper stage and b) fsr, I couldn't turn the damn engine off either. Abort mission.
  #295  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:10 PM
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I've made some significant progress towards my goal of building a reusable space plane with my most recent experiment. Pictured are two vehicles:
Have you seen this? SSTO interplanetary craft.
  #296  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:14 PM
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Ok, I think you're going to need to explain a little bit more about whats going on at the bottom of the rocket here. We've got six of the smaller fuel tanks in two banks of three around a central bigger fuel tank. Three of those small tanks have engines and fins. Fuel lines connect the three engined tanks to the central tank; fuel lines also connect each non-engined tank to the engined tank. Have I got that right?
Yes, that's correct.

Quote:
Does the central tank have an engine as well? Also, it looks like the upper tank has the small engine on it, right? Also, why did you have the guidance module connected to the capsule with an explosive decoupler?
The rocket has five engines: three large engines in the boosters, one large engine in the middle and one small rocket in the top stage. The decoupler up the top is so that you can disconnect the capsule for reentry so the parachute doesn't have to carry the extra weight.

Quote:
FTR, I just tried this and what happened was that I had a very, very long burn that more or less put me into orbital altitudes itself. I then jettisoned the engineless tanks and discovered... that I had nothing to run the engines on! Oops. I jettisoned the engined tanks, and then the empty central tank with its handy engine as well...
It sounds like you put the fuel lines on the wrong way around. They have arrows pointing the direction the fuel goes.

Quote:
...turned on the small engine, decided I wanted to land sometime instead of sending yet another Kerbal off to the far reaches of the solar system (Yes, I have managed escape velocity, heh), discovered that a) I couldn't decouple the upper stage and b) fsr, I couldn't turn the damn engine off either. Abort mission.
I think you had already decoupled that stage. The engine wasn't connected to the module so that's why you couldn't turn it off, it was just pushing it along.
  #297  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:14 PM
LawMonkey is offline
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Hmm. I shall try this again tomorrow. With a printout of the instructions so that I can read 'em without having to tab back and forth.
  #298  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:49 PM
Knorf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
Have you seen this? SSTO interplanetary craft.
If anyone in this thread hasn't watched Macey Dean's "KSS Spirit of Kerbin" series, prepare to have your mind blown. I honestly had never thought of attempting anything like what Macey created! He's engineered some truly amazing ships, entirely with stock parts, and written an absorbing story.

It does drag at times, but, heck, it's YouTube so skipping forward is no big deal.
  #299  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:06 PM
PacifistPorcupine is offline
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I'm having some serious problems with symmetry. Some radial attachments simply will not line up properly, they use the wrong axis and thus are all places on one side of a fuel tank or some other weird shit.
  #300  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:37 PM
Grumman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacifistPorcupine View Post
I'm having some serious problems with symmetry. Some radial attachments simply will not line up properly, they use the wrong axis and thus are all places on one side of a fuel tank or some other weird shit.
I have the same problem sometimes. One thing that often helps is to move the base part onto the central axis of the rocket, add the radial attachment, then move it back.
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