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  #201  
Old 02-27-2019, 01:17 PM
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Ho. Ly. CRAP.

I delved about as deep as I could. And....

SPOILER:
When last we left our hero, I had just returned from my latest discovery -- a massive underwater cavern containing a coral-tree holding three enormous leviathan eggs -- and managed to get enough resources together in my Lost River base to build the depth module for my PRAWN suit and upgrade my Cyclops depth module, so that both could reach 1300 meters. On my last trip, I had swam down to see an enormous volcanic cavern deep below the tree, and knew I wanted to return there. But not until I was ready. Well, now I was.

I took the Cyclops and parked it at the last edge of the Lost River, just above a cliff overlooking the lava tubes. Then I set off in my Cyclops. The first three trips led me to various dead ends, after which I'd return to the Cyclops, recharge, and prepare to delve again. The fourth trip was different. I found a very long tunnel that led down, to another massive cavern -- this one TRULY gigantic. I flew through the cavern in my PRAWN suit and landed on the far side, at the edge of a massive crater. I was as deep as the prawn suit could go -- delving deeper would mean swimming.

I got out and swam. In the side of the crater, I found a tunnel. Following the tunnel led me to a third massive cavern, this one filled with lava. And... GIANT MONSTERS!

Sadly it looks like I was supposed to find a blue tablet somewhere on the way -- maybe in the big chamber just above. I'll let you guys know if I find anything.

PS: I went back to my PRAWN suit and found ANOTHER massive monster in the second cavern. They can leave the lava cave?! Can they swim up to where I parked my Cyclops?!
  #202  
Old 02-27-2019, 02:34 PM
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PS: I went back to my PRAWN suit and found ANOTHER massive monster in the second cavern. They can leave the lava cave?! Can they swim up to where I parked my Cyclops?![/spoiler]
You're at a point where I found a spoiler to be very helpful, but it is a spoiler. I'll try to make it vague.
SPOILER:
In the massive lava cavern where you find the first giant firebreathing monster, there's a huge mountain in the middle. You'll want to explore that mountain really carefully. First time I went down, I zipped past it because the monster was freaking me out--but you can't do that.

As for the monsters, they're territorial and won't follow you out of their territory.
  #203  
Old 02-27-2019, 03:30 PM
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You're at a point where I found a spoiler to be very helpful, but it is a spoiler. I'll try to make it vague.
SPOILER:
In the massive lava cavern where you find the first giant firebreathing monster, there's a huge mountain in the middle. You'll want to explore that mountain really carefully. First time I went down, I zipped past it because the monster was freaking me out--but you can't do that.

As for the monsters, they're territorial and won't follow you out of their territory.
Endgame spoilers below!
SPOILER:
Ok, that makes perfect sense! I too went past the big cavern in a hurry and got into the big pit, but not because I saw the monster -- although I could hear it, I never actually saw it on the way in. So I actually assumed there was just one Sea Dragon, and that he left the lava lake before I did (I waited until the coast was clear before swimming back to my PRAWN and never saw him during the crossing).

I got to play for about 45 minutes on my lunch break, which was enough time to take my PRAWN and eventually find that massive structure. It was so big that on my first pass I actually went between the big mountain and the side wall, thinking that the mountain WAS the second wall, and so never exploring it. As soon as I got close to it, though, I got a PDA message letting me know that this was the source of the energy readings, so I knew I was going the tight way.

I eventually found the alien base inside, but had no tablets; swam all the way back to my Cyclops in one go, just barely making it with my seaglide; made the necessary tablets, swam back, got my blue tablet and other goodies, and swam down to the Lava lake alien base.

I had to get back to work before really exploring this place, but DANG! It's HUGE! I'm gonna need to do a more thorough exploration, including getting some extra tablets. I think I'll fully explore as much as I can, figure out what kind of tablets I need, and come back -- so far, I need one more blue tablet.

I was very happy to learn that there's more bases to explore before I'm quite finished. I'll also note that while I've been trying my best to avoid spoilers, I did hear that there's something called a "sea treader" somewhere on the seafloor above the cave levels, and there are a few places I've never fully explored - the area below the floating islands, the giant blue floating ball area, the blood vine area that's NOT in a trench, a big cave that split off from the main Lost River path and had some big coral trees and a ghost leviathan, and anywhere infested by reapers - the very rough ground by the ship that had like 3 of them, the area behind the Aurora's engines, and the hilly sandy zone near the deep sea trench I entered the Lost River through. So regardless of how close I am to the storyline being over, I think I have plenty left to do.

I should really build that spaceship, too. I looted the Aurora pretty early and never ended up even starting my spaceship...
  #204  
Old 03-03-2019, 12:49 AM
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Well, I beat the game. My thoughts, below. Lots of spoilers -- so if you're still playing through this, my message to you is, enjoy! Take your time! And don't spoil anything for yourself! This is one of the best games I've ever played.

SPOILER:
Subnautica was one of the most fun games I've played. The only game that felt this polished and put together for me was The Witcher 3 (which I got halfway through and am excited to return to soon!). A truly immersive experience.

At the same time, I do think it ended at just the right time. A combination of a few factors has made it so that Subnautica was becoming less enjoyable for me, so that the last couple of play sessions, I launched the game because I wanted to finish, not because I wanted to get lost in its world.

Partially, it was the loss of fear. Early on, I was always low on oxygen, always discovering new and terrifying beasts. I was slow and cumbersome in the water. And while I was capable of escaping almost any threat, I didn't know it yet. So I was always on edge, and just when I got comfortable with a new area, I had to move on ever deeper in my quest for resources. But now, I had 225 seconds of air, I took reduced damage from enemies, and could travel anywhere in vehicles, or with a super-fin boosted seaglide. In the early game, going to a new zone was an expedition. I'd take my seaglide, my batteries, and some food and water, and travel as far as I could before having to go home. Lategame, the Cyclops let you carry your base with you. Setting up the Cyclops was a major achievement and a proud moment, but after that, the game felt almost over.

Partially, it was the lack of progression. There are no more new blueprints to discover once you leave the surface biomes, although alien rooms are still driving you on. But that's it -- no cool new things you get to build for the first time. Maybe you can build an upgrade you've known about for ages but didn't have the materials for, but nothing truly new.

And partially it was what I was discovering. Lost River is really cool, but almost all of the other deep sea biomes are so dark that -- once you get over the initial wow factor of seeing them for the first time -- there's not much more to discover. Near the surface, I was wow'd when I first saw, say, the kelp forest or the red sea grass area, but then again and again by different locations within the kelp forest or sea grass area. But the bulb zone, the blood kelp, the floating islands, the lava caves, the deep reef... I was amazed when I first saw them, but despite running back and forth through these zones foraging for resources, I never really explored them, because the view distance is unnecessarily short - even with your lights on, when you're in a cave the light seems to fade very quickly, almost like a filter (a darkness filter, similar to the green filter in the kelp zone).

(Partially, I think that's my fault -- I delved deeper by going into the blood kelp trench. I think the other blood kelp zone is much cooler, and has much more light, so you can actually explore it. But I only found out about that zone near the end of my run.)

Now, that's all fine -- I had some amazing and unique experiences in these dark zones -- but they're just less fun to explore much, past initially arriving there.

I'll definitely come back to this game again, and I think what I might do is download a mod that adds more upgrades to the seamoth, and then play a run where I never build a cyclops or a prawn suit, I only build one base in the shallows, and I spend all game having to return from expeditions. Building bases every new place I went was the smart decision, but it made the world seem too small.

I know this review sounded negative. That's not at all how I feel about the game. It had some of the most wonderful discover moments I've ever experienced in a game. But when it ended, I was ready for the end.
  #205  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:39 AM
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Well, I beat the game. My thoughts, below. Lots of spoilers -- so if you're still playing through this, my message to you is, enjoy! Take your time! And don't spoil anything for yourself! This is one of the best games I've ever played.
SPOILER:
Yes, but did you have a whole school of cuddlefish playing in your garden when you finished?
  #206  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:43 PM
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Hah....I'm a genius. I only now realized that it's possible to swap air tanks underwater.

This whole time I was wondering why the hell you'd need to keep making air tanks.

On a lighter note, I now have a Cyclops, Prawn, and launch platform. Don't spoil it, but the idea of just building a zoomie and launching for freedom seems too good to be true.

I have yet to go below about 300m.
  #207  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:05 PM
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Hah....I'm a genius. I only now realized that it's possible to swap air tanks underwater.
FWIW, while you can do that, I didn't think it was necessary, or worth carrying the extra tank around.
Quote:
I have yet to go below about 300m.
Dude, you have a Cyclops! Live on the edge!
  #208  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babale View Post
Lost River is really cool, but almost all of the other deep sea biomes are so dark
[...]
I never really explored them, because the view distance is unnecessarily short - even with your lights on, when you're in a cave the light seems to fade very quickly, almost like a filter (a darkness filter, similar to the green filter in the kelp zone).
Upthread I wondered if it was a bug, and now I think it is.
Because in the cyclops, exploring many of the deep biomes, you have the choice between a black screen where you can't see anything and, if you flick the lights on, a gray screen where you can't see anything.
Since my previous post, I installed a mod that allowed me to upgrade the seamoth to reach lower depths, and in the seamoth my viewing distance was much improved.

Regardless, I still would consider the last part of the game somewhat weak compared to the earlier exploration: the active and inactive lava zones are just a Mordor "boss level" with discovery gone in favor of just avoiding danger.
And I had to look in a guide to find the blue tablet (I had explored the place with the blue tablet, but just not noticed it. If you ever do this in Subnautica you can be stuck for a long time).
  #209  
Old 03-04-2019, 01:07 AM
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Upthread I wondered if it was a bug, and now I think it is.
Because in the cyclops, exploring many of the deep biomes, you have the choice between a black screen where you can't see anything and, if you flick the lights on, a gray screen where you can't see anything.
Wait--people pilot the Cyclops while trying to look out the front window? I always used the cameras, and only switched out of them to check the sonar and run defenses. You get much better visibility from the cameras, and you can see exactly where every part of the sub is.
Quote:
...the active and inactive lava zones are just a Mordor "boss level" with discovery gone in favor of just avoiding danger.
That's one way to look at it. Another way is: "I'm gonna find the danger and scan it! And then I'm gonna ride it! Woohoo!"

More to the point: Yes, the last couple of zones are pretty sparse. It kind of makes sense, both because not much could live there, and because they're supposed to be quite focused on the big maguffin. I would have liked to see a few more extremophile lifeforms, like tentacular tubeworms sifting out sulfur compounds or something.
  #210  
Old 03-04-2019, 03:48 AM
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Wait--people pilot the Cyclops while trying to look out the front window? I always used the cameras, and only switched out of them to check the sonar and run defenses. You get much better visibility from the cameras, and you can see exactly where every part of the sub is.
Well...yeah. I used the cameras from time to time but assumed the primary view screen should be the front window.
For a minute there I thought perhaps I was being dumb trying to drive round looking out the main window, but then I figured if the front window was designed to be difficult to see out of and you were supposed to use cameras, then I would have to hand it to the designers for some pretty impressive misdirection.
  #211  
Old 03-04-2019, 05:48 AM
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Well...yeah. I used the cameras from time to time but assumed the primary view screen should be the front window.
For a minute there I thought perhaps I was being dumb trying to drive round looking out the main window, but then I figured if the front window was designed to be difficult to see out of and you were supposed to use cameras, then I would have to hand it to the designers for some pretty impressive misdirection.
I don't know if it was actually design intent to make it hard to see out the front, but in practice, the cameras just make it so much easier to navigate, especially in tight areas. You can flick between the tail, the keel, and the sail with the mousewheel to see all around very easily. I mainly used the keel-cam for general navigation, but I flicked to the others to make sure I had clearance to go under things or rotate past obstacles.

Plus, IIRC, the in-game documentation does say that the Cyclops is designed to be run by a crew of 3. If you had 3, one could be on the cams, one at the helm, and one tending the rest of the sub and putting out fires. Since you don't have that luxury, you have to pick which gives you the most valuable view at any given time--cams, with their improved visibility, or front view plus sonar and controls. The tradeoff could have been intended to reflect the idea that the Cyclops is not a solo craft.
  #212  
Old 03-04-2019, 07:02 AM
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Yeah, but looking out the window really makes it feel like you're driving a big vehicle. Immersion comes first!
  #213  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:35 AM
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Subnautica: Clumsy Ocean Bus
  #214  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:43 AM
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FWIW, while you can do that, I didn't think it was necessary, or worth carrying the extra tank around.

Dude, you have a Cyclops! Live on the edge!
I'll probably take along a regular tank for a bit....I almost drowned (like 2-3 seconds to spare) last night because I got sucked in swimming around.

Yep, my plan for my next session is to outfit Cyclops with resources and make it a mobile base to truck Prawn around and search places like Grand Reef where I have seen some interesting things.
  #215  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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I'll probably take along a regular tank for a bit....I almost drowned (like 2-3 seconds to spare) last night because I got sucked in swimming around.

Yep, my plan for my next session is to outfit Cyclops with resources and make it a mobile base to truck Prawn around and search places like Grand Reef where I have seen some interesting things.
Carrying an extra tank around slows down your swimming speed, so you actually wind up not exploring as much as if you didn't have it. And it obviously takes up valuable inventory space. Better to train yourself not to get down to the last second before returning to your vehicle or the surface. Though maybe as a scuba diver who once nearly hit an OOA situation I'm less willing to push my air to the edge.
  #216  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:57 AM
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Carrying an extra tank around slows down your swimming speed, so you actually wind up not exploring as much as if you didn't have it. And it obviously takes up valuable inventory space. Better to train yourself not to get down to the last second before returning to your vehicle or the surface. Though maybe as a scuba diver who once nearly hit an OOA situation I'm less willing to push my air to the edge.
Scary.

Good point. I was pretty tired last night so I may not have been paying as much attention as I usually would. And I was pissed that I let myself run out of titanium at my base, so I was kind of flailing around looking for some instead of just getting in Seamoth and going where I know there is some.

Actually what pissed me off was that I kept accidentally fabricating things with unintentional clicks, and THAT used up titanium.

Oh, and fuck Warpers. Just fuck those guys.
  #217  
Old 03-04-2019, 01:01 PM
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Post game spoiler:

SPOILER:
I guess warpers are supposed to be passive if you aren't infected. Does that mean once I am cured they'll ignore me?

I'm planning on coming back to this game, that's for sure, although maybe what I will do is stay in my Post game save. Could be fun to build a sprawling base, with habitats at each gateway entrance, effectively incorporating the alien facility into my base. Anyone know if I can drop some multipurpose rooms in the above water parts of the final alien base? What about inside the aquarium?

Last edited by Babale; 03-04-2019 at 01:02 PM.
  #218  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:15 PM
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Scary.

Good point. I was pretty tired last night so I may not have been paying as much attention as I usually would. And I was pissed that I let myself run out of titanium at my base, so I was kind of flailing around looking for some instead of just getting in Seamoth and going where I know there is some.

Actually what pissed me off was that I kept accidentally fabricating things with unintentional clicks, and THAT used up titanium.

Oh, and fuck Warpers. Just fuck those guys.
Warpers are the worst.

I'm a savescummy bastard, and last night I did the closest you can do in Subnautica, I quitscummed, exiting the game two seconds before I drowned. I'd spent the last 90 seconds trying to find my way out of the
SPOILER:
Jelly shroom caverns or whatever they're called
with no luck.

I am definitely enjoying the replay of the game. Just got my Cyclops again!
  #219  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:36 PM
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Post game spoiler:

SPOILER:
I guess warpers are supposed to be passive if you aren't infected. Does that mean once I am cured they'll ignore me?

I'm planning on coming back to this game, that's for sure, although maybe what I will do is stay in my Post game save. Could be fun to build a sprawling base, with habitats at each gateway entrance, effectively incorporating the alien facility into my base. Anyone know if I can drop some multipurpose rooms in the above water parts of the final alien base? What about inside the aquarium?
An answer and a maybe/sorta:
SPOILER:
Yes, the warpers will be passive toward you once you're cured. They'll still attack any infected native life they see, though, so they may occasionally warp in hostile life forms that could attack you. It would be a rare occurrence, though.

The restrictions on building are a bit obscure, but the alien base geometry doesn't seem to count as "ground" for building purposes. If there's ground geometry right under the floor, it might let you place something, or it might not. If you can build a corridor into the base from outside, you should be able to attach rooms to it. I think you can probably build inside the last containment unit...but it seems a bit morbid, if not downright depressing.


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Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
Oh, and fuck Warpers. Just fuck those guys.
I think it's more that they're intimidating than that they're really dangerous. They don't deal all that much damage, but they yank you out of your comfort zone.

Last edited by Balance; 03-04-2019 at 02:37 PM.
  #220  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:42 PM
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SPOILER:
that's true, it would be a bit morbid, but a base in the main room with smaller bases containing vehicles outside each gateway would be so cool!
  #221  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:21 PM
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I love blasting warpers with a repulsor though. “No, F you Mr. Warper!”
  #222  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:49 PM
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I love blasting warpers with a repulsor though. No, F you Mr. Warper!
Warper Wrangling is not as much fun as Reaper Rodeo.
  #223  
Old 03-09-2019, 03:57 PM
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[Deep breaths...deep breaths...you'll be fine, man...you've done this before...just don't think about...anything. Deep breaths...]

Okay, I got roped into blowing thirty bucks on this on the recommendation of a Doper who said that Creative mode allows you to build anything you want right out of the bat and it's impossible to die (which is true, much like it's true that as long as you never, ever leave Peaceful in Minecraft you won't get killed constantly two seconds after sunset). So I explored for a bit in Creative, which was how I was able to discover that:

- There's zero indication anywhere of where you should be going. (That big burning ship? Oh yeah, I tried that. I bumped my nose a lot. Sure, there's a way to find the entrance somewhere. There a way everything somewhere in this damn game.)
- There's zero indication anywhere of what kind of tasks you're supposed to be accomplishing here.
- There's zero indication of where to find supplies.
- There's zero indication anywhere of how to accomplish these tasks.
- Literally the entire world is covered in a substance that will quite literally kill you in a matter of seconds the moment you leave the safe cocoon of Creative (Casual? I'm sorry, it's a been a while and the Wiki is just a tad unwieldy.), and of course is completely undrinkable (mainly because it's contaminated, as it turns out, but I'll get to that in a bit).
- To kill an animal requires awkwardly swinging a little bitty chunk of metal, in an environment which said animal is fast and agile in and an air-breathing warm-blooded mammal most definitely is not, which, incidentally, is the only weapon you get in the entire game. (And we criticized Rush 'n Attack?)
- Method for dealing with large predator: Either run like hell (because it's completely immune to all damage) or use some wimpy pathetic nonlethal piece of junk straight from a fourth rate 80's arcade or NES game, and pray that it actually works.

"What, you just want everything SPOONFED to you, is that it?" Yeah, that'd be nice, at least in the early going. That's why mobile games have tutorials, doncha know (and in many cases the tutorial was as far as I got). Heck, even Minecraft is full of tips, as is Divinity. How helpful these tips are is debatable, but at least they're trying. I mean, if I'm just going to get thrown into this supremely hostile, incredibly lethal, uncharted world, I think a basic gameplan isn't too much to ask.

Oh, and now I'm hearing that when I get deep, I have jumpscares to look forward to! Lovely!

Huh...this is one of those things which pretty much nobody is willing to admit not liking (except, y'know, me), which is tough enough when I'm trying to get the concept of "I'm having trouble with this and I need help!" across, and the worst part is that I don't even understand why it's getting a free pass on so many things that I consider absolute non-starters. I mean, I get the whole South Park punching down, don't give a crap about anything, cheap to produce and what does Comedy Central have that's any better dealy, but what is the appeal about being completely lost and getting killed every ten seconds unless you take the exact correct actions which are not indicated at all in-game?

Anyway...I bought this online so I can give it another go if I ever feel like it, but I need some help on some really basic stuff. I'll skip the stuff on hunting and water collection since I'm never going to go above level-immediately-above-Creative anyway.

First off, what is the bare minimum to rocket the hell off of the planet on Creative? I've accepted the fact that this is the type of game that's going to make me jump through a hundred hoops, but at least I'd like to know where the hoops are. As I understand it, the main objective is to cure the infection that's tainted all the water on the planet, which necessitates going to a certain location. It's the same location any time, it's not random or anything, right? And the ship somehow has the first clue? And something in it will tell me where to go? Or something it points to? Or something? Seriously, this story sounds like it has the potential to become fairly intriguing, I just want to experience it!

Once I've gotten that out of the way and moved up to LIAC, what kind of stuff am I going to need to not die constantly? I'm hoping that there's some dependable long-term air supply, but given how many of you are talking about running out of air and the incredible nerve-wracking tension of being somewhere deep and running out of air, running out of air, hurry, hurry, you're going to die! (ah, a lovely complement to going deep and nearly getting a heart attack every two minutes! ), I have my doubts. I also heard some stuff about "dodging leviathans", but I haven't heard any actual techniques, and again, you are the mouse, they are the cat-shaped nuclear quicksilver thunderbolt of mass destruction. Are you supposed to read their movements? Run and hide in one of your structures? Just wing it? I mean, I've run like hell from numerous confrontations in Assassin's Creed, so I'm not too proud for that, but only if there isn't a better option.

Where do I find resources? What kind of resources will I need? What kind of tools will I need? Is there ever any danger of running out?

Will there be horrible deadly enemies jumping in out of nowhere in the depths, and if so, how do I deal with them?

Will there be critical resource shortages, and if so, how do I deal with this?

Is there a good chance that the invincible indestructible monstrous terrifying apocalyptic mass destruction machines will either steal, destroy, or cause serious damage to something critically important and/our expensive to produce, and if so, how do I deal with that (or better yet, prevent it)?

I've played this, and I can see the potential for, if not a great game, than at least a fairly interesting experience, but I really, really, SUPER DUPER HONEST TO YUKARI need to walk before I can run. Thank you.

Oh, and if you're just going to say that I'm a pathetic useless noob and I whine too much and I suck...I already know that.
  #224  
Old 03-09-2019, 04:04 PM
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I hate to tell you this, but when you start a game in creative, it tells you, "Oxygen, food, pressure, story, and death disabled." (emphasis added) I've not played much in creative, but my kids have, and AFAICT you're not going to get all the cool things you get in survival, like radio messages and location coordinates. Creative is just a chance to noodle around and build things.

I strongly recommend restarting the game in survival mode, and taking it slow. In survival mode, for the first few hours of play you get plenty of little quests, mostly consisting of visiting new locations, where you can read new blogs.

You don't need to kill fish in order to catch them. Just click on them. Peepers are advanced prey; stick to the hoverfish and the little gas-bag-like fish to begin with.

Build a knife as soon as you can.

Don't worry about the ship until you're feeling pretty spiff.
  #225  
Old 03-09-2019, 04:10 PM
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You could also start in freedom mode, but honestly I think the need for food is pretty fun. Something about being at very low food and then cooking a couple of fish is so satisfying.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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I hate to tell you this, but when you start a game in creative, it tells you, "Oxygen, food, pressure, story, and death disabled." (emphasis added) I've not played much in creative, but my kids have, and AFAICT you're not going to get all the cool things you get in survival, like radio messages and location coordinates. Creative is just a chance to noodle around and build things.

I strongly recommend restarting the game in survival mode, and taking it slow. In survival mode, for the first few hours of play you get plenty of little quests, mostly consisting of visiting new locations, where you can read new blogs.

You don't need to kill fish in order to catch them. Just click on them. Peepers are advanced prey; stick to the hoverfish and the little gas-bag-like fish to begin with.

Build a knife as soon as you can.

Don't worry about the ship until you're feeling pretty spiff.
In DKWs defense, it was suggested that playing the game in creative mode just lowers the difficulty. I dont blame him for being confused and frustrated.
  #227  
Old 03-09-2019, 06:12 PM
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In DKWs defense, it was suggested that playing the game in creative mode just lowers the difficulty. I dont blame him for being confused and frustrated.
Yeah, I'm not in any way saying he's a dummy or anything. Just that the thing that's frustrating him is fixable, but not in the save file he's currently playing.
  #228  
Old 03-09-2019, 10:03 PM
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Where do I find resources? What kind of resources will I need? What kind of tools will I need? Is there ever any danger of running out?

Will there be horrible deadly enemies jumping in out of nowhere in the depths, and if so, how do I deal with them?

Will there be critical resource shortages, and if so, how do I deal with this?

Is there a good chance that the invincible indestructible monstrous terrifying apocalyptic mass destruction machines will either steal, destroy, or cause serious damage to something critically important and/our expensive to produce, and if so, how do I deal with that (or better yet, prevent it)?
Others have already addressed Creative mode as the reason you're not getting story prompts and advice; it's mostly for building crazy bases. To address some of your other questions:

Resources are scattered all over the place, starting with basic ones near the lifepod, with more exotic ones appearing in other locations. The cycle basically works like this: explore->find some resources->use resources to make gear to explore farther/deeper->find new resources and blueprints->use new resources to make fancier gear. The story will, at times, prompt you to make certain things or look for certain things in order to advance, and these prompts will push you to explore various areas. This continues until you can go anywhere you want in the game. (In style, if that's what floats your boat--my Cyclops is quite fancy.)

The resources you need most are pretty common (you'll use titanium and quartz in bulk, and they're pretty much everywhere). It's possible to pick an area clean, but there's a lot of areas to scrounge in, and disassembling base components gives you all the resources back, so you'd have to go really nuts with building in survival mode to run out of anything.

One of the most crucial tools is the scanner. It's easy to make, you start with the blueprint, and you can use it to get what amounts to a wikipedia entry on damn near anything on the planet. Scan anything the pops up a scan icon when you point the scanner at it, and read the results. If the thing you scan is at all useful, the page that you get will tell you what it's good for; it'll tell you that you can get copper and titanium from this kind of rock, silver and gold from that type, and so on. Scanning bits and pieces of machinery gets you blueprints.

Horrible deadly enemies do not jump out at you from nowhere. There are deadly creatures, but it's not like in Minecraft, where the sun goes down and suddenly a dozen zombies pop up and start running toward you. The dangerous creatures in Subnautica are not evil monsters out to get you personally; they're just predators in their natural environment, doing what predators do. You'll usually see and hear them before you get close enough that they'll come after you; they'll try to eat you if you get close, but they're mostly not very persistent about chasing you. You can watch them from a distance, see how they act, and usually just avoid getting in their way. (Or you can be a lunatic like me and ride them around.) If you get careless--and you eventually will--some of the smaller predators might get close enough to bite you, which is startling, but doesn't do a lot of damage. This is not a game about killing dangerous things; it does not encourage you to do so, nor does it reward you if you manage it--the predators aren't even edible. Your best options are to avoid them, and to chase the little ones off with a knife, if necessary--most of them will sensibly try to swim away from you if you hurt them.

Most people end up losing a Seamoth (the little minisub) to something at some point, but they're not all that expensive to make. I never lost one, though. If you keep it at full repair, it can survive the first hit from most things, and it's fast enough to scoot away from them. If you study the predators and learn where they go and how close you can get before they become aggressive, you can almost always just go around them. You can also make upgrades for it that will make it tougher and even give it a shock-field to chase things off.

The Cyclops is moderately expensive to make, but it's also quite tough, and it can be upgraded with a very powerful shield (among other things). I've taken it right into the territories of the most dangerous critters in the game, and never felt the ship was really in trouble. Bases, of course, can be as expensive as you want to make them...so just don't build expensive bases in predator territory.

On the whole, survival mode in Subnautica is less dangerous than in Minecraft. The biggest threat is just forgetting about air or pushing the limits of its capacity. You'll expand that capacity early on, but it will always remain sharply limited; the O2 meter applies constant tension while you're exploring, but you can take a break from it just by ducking back into your little minisub or suit--those never run out of air as long as they have power.

Oh, and you do get other weapons later, but they're all nonlethal...unless you get creative.
  #229  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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One of the most crucial tools is the scanner. It's easy to make, you start with the blueprint, and you can use it to get what amounts to a wikipedia entry on damn near anything on the planet. Scan anything the pops up a scan icon when you point the scanner at it, and read the results. If the thing you scan is at all useful, the page that you get will tell you what it's good for; it'll tell you that you can get copper and titanium from this kind of rock, silver and gold from that type, and so on. Scanning bits and pieces of machinery gets you blueprints.

Horrible deadly enemies do not jump out at you from nowhere. There are deadly creatures, but it's not like in Minecraft, where the sun goes down and suddenly a dozen zombies pop up and start running toward you. The dangerous creatures in Subnautica are not evil monsters out to get you personally; they're just predators in their natural environment, doing what predators do. You'll usually see and hear them before you get close enough that they'll come after you; they'll try to eat you if you get close, but they're mostly not very persistent about chasing you. You can watch them from a distance, see how they act, and usually just avoid getting in their way. (Or you can be a lunatic like me and ride them around.) If you get careless--and you eventually will--some of the smaller predators might get close enough to bite you, which is startling, but doesn't do a lot of damage. This is not a game about killing dangerous things; it does not encourage you to do so, nor does it reward you if you manage it--the predators aren't even edible. Your best options are to avoid them, and to chase the little ones off with a knife, if necessary--most of them will sensibly try to swim away from you if you hurt them.
Or you can be like me and take the crazy tack of scanning all the predators, especially the leviathans. (The plankton eating leviathans don't count, they're little more than moving rocks. With some sweet heavy elements to mine. Except, there's inevitably tiger plants. Stupid tiger plants. They're more annoying than any predator, IMO.)

Anyway, the only way to scan predators is from the business end. It's interesting staring down a leviathan's maw so that you scan the thing.

But I've never died from a leviathan. I have died from a tiger plant. As others have said, most predators don't want to eat you. You don't taste good. But they are very territorial. Especially the stalkers, who like metal, which is why they aggressively attack your ships sometimes. But generally, you'll be able to get a stalkers tooth out of it when they do.

Also, don't swim with the predators prey.

A really good general guide is here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/763...ica/faqs/76398
  #230  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:33 AM
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Ha! I needed stalker teeth... I had been just lucking out on one here and there. So I decided to go look purposely. Filled up my inventory with teeth in about 20 minutes. Still haven't used them all.
  #231  
Old 03-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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Or you can be like me and take the crazy tack of scanning all the predators, especially the leviathans.
Oh, I scanned everything, useful or not, dangerous or not.
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Especially the stalkers, who like metal, which is why they aggressively attack your ships sometimes. But generally, you'll be able to get a stalkers tooth out of it when they do.
I found a nice spot not too far from my base, built a couple of stand-alone foundations, and piled scrap on them. Then I hatched a pair of stalkers and turned them loose at the scrap piles. When I needed teeth, I'd just go by, feed them some fish, and collect the teeth they'd dropped while playing with the scrap. (This is not a remotely efficient way to get the teeth, BTW, I just thought it was fun.)
  #232  
Old 03-10-2019, 04:41 PM
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I found a nice spot not too far from my base, built a couple of stand-alone foundations, and piled scrap on them. Then I hatched a pair of stalkers and turned them loose at the scrap piles. When I needed teeth, I'd just go by, feed them some fish, and collect the teeth they'd dropped while playing with the scrap. (This is not a remotely efficient way to get the teeth, BTW, I just thought it was fun.)
For future reference, any fish you hatch and release should be non-hostile.

Interesting idea, however. I generally just go for the scanner route when there's something I need. That and the chip are fantastic.
  #233  
Old 03-10-2019, 05:31 PM
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For future reference, any fish you hatch and release should be non-hostile.

Interesting idea, however. I generally just go for the scanner route when there's something I need. That and the chip are fantastic.
Yeah, I got to a point where I needed a bunch of enameled glass and had no teeth to use. I went to my scanner room (which Id built but never really used) and searched for teeth. It showed me where I could get more than 20 just laying around bunched up together. It was much more than I needed but now I have a stockpile.
  #234  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:16 PM
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For future reference, any fish you hatch and release should be non-hostile.

Interesting idea, however. I generally just go for the scanner route when there's something I need. That and the chip are fantastic.
Well, yes, they're non-hostile, but it seemed polite to bring them a treat when I went to visit. Like I said, I did it that way because I was having fun with it. (I didn't really use scanner rooms at that point, because they were substantially less than fantastic for quite a while. They work much better now.)

Random Below Zero notes: Sea trucks are a lot of work to make. Bladderfish are extinct, but creepvine seed clusters are full of water. That deep, empty place under the Twisty Bridges with the scary sounds is no longer empty...but is still scary-sounding.
  #235  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:35 AM
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Balance - It's strange how the simple act of making progress in this game is one of those things that nobody seems interested in talking about. (Much like the new-and-catastrophically-unimproved combat in Assassin's Creed, which I haven't found any kind of in-depth analysis about...all I remember is "the shield that poisons on a successful block" and something about a guard break...but that's another thread.) Hey, thanks a ton. Finally, something to go on.

Sooooo, Creative doesn't have any actual gameplay, it's just to let your imagination run free. Huh. That's a bit of a bummer. See, the reason I got this in the first place was that after the many, many headaches I've gotten with various PS4 games (long, painful thread here), I welcomed a game where it was literally impossible to die at all. The problem is, if there's no purpose, no structure, well, what's the point? I want to accomplish something in my games, go from nothing to something, turn effort into reward. To give an example, building Rome up from a broken-down shantytown into a wealthy, beautiful metropolis in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood was one of my most satisfying video game experiences ever. If all I wanted was to not get driven bonkers by a game, I could've just not bought the game in the first place, which would've freed up time and energy for other things and saved me thirty clams. And unfortunately, I'm not a super-creative type willing to spend hours or days perfecting a masterpiece (the main reason Minecraft found the trash roughly twenty seconds after the Witch showed up, may she burn in Hell). I mean, if you're a maestro, great (no, really, that's great! ); I continue to be awestruck by Minecraft sculptures, machines, and other assorted wonders, but it's not the sort of thing I have the creative spark for.

So it's...whazzit called, "Freedom"?...or bust. Okay, I get the gist of the basic gameplay. One more question: How much oxygen deprivation is there? Let's get one thing clear: I don't handle stress well. At all. I had to give up the higher difficulties on Wolfenstein 3D precisely because that enemy popping out of nowhere and erasing fifteen minutes of work in one second just got too much to take (and this was a time where I was all but living video games). I have blood pressure issues. I don't want "You're running out of air! You're running out of air! Hurry! Hurrrrryyyyyy!" to become a regular occurrence. My other big fear is that it's going to be the stratospheric difficulty spike that takes me out of the game for good. I mean, the whole thing sounds like a colossally ham-handed bait and switch to begin with..."Here's this handy device which allows you to remain underwater indefinitely! Oops, we made this area where you can't use it, and it just so happens to have stuff you'll need later! Too bad, sucks to be you!"...but if the end result is an item I can't get, a task I can't complete, that is an absolute dealbreaker. I don't care if the roadblock happens 10%, 40%, or 99.9% of the way in; dead is dead.

Some video links would be nice!
  #236  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:52 AM
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So it's...whazzit called, "Freedom"?...or bust. Okay, I get the gist of the basic gameplay. One more question: How much oxygen deprivation is there? Let's get one thing clear: I don't handle stress well.
Oxygen is always a thing, but it is never a major thing. It's a little fast-cycle engagement device. You have to pay attention to it, but there's not going to be any point in the game where you have to run your O2 down to the wire in order to progress. The most you can extend the meter is to just under 4 minutes of air, and you'll also need to craft a rebreather, so that your oxygen doesn't run out faster at deeper depths. The good news is that you will be making small vehicles that can go pretty much everywhere that have unlimited air. There are a few small caves that may be too tight for the Seamoth to fit through, but they're not all that extensive; you can park the Seamoth at the entrance, go in and poke around for a couple of minutes, and come right back out to top off on air. For that matter, I took my Cyclops, a relatively huge submarine that hauls the smaller vehicles and can operate as a self-sufficient base right to the very end-game area. I basically parked my mobile base at the curb in front of Finale Station.

Once you upgrade your gear, the game will remind you when you're down to 30 seconds of air; if that stresses you out or annoys you, just go back to top off a little earlier.

There is no giant difficulty spike. There are no tricks. The game never really becomes difficult. It's a game about exploring, avoiding conflict, and engineering a solution. Steady, methodical, and careful will take you all the way through. (Yes, some of us are swapping stories about crazy things we do in the game...but those are self-imposed challenges. You will never have to ride a reaper, knife a warper to death, or scan a leviathan to progress.)

This may not be constructive, but here's a playlist from Markiplier, who is actually phobic about the ocean and deep water, playing the entire game, from beta through full release: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...X7egr8X5qZhVqK
(Spoiler: He gets scared a lot.)

For contrast, here is jacksepticeye's crazed, loud, enthusiastic, and very Irish playlist of the full release: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Kf9FSHy0_h8F4K

Since these are both full playthroughs, they will obviously be full of spoilers for the game, but if you want see someone else get scared by the predators first, so you know what to expect...both those guys are really bad at being careful.
  #237  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:52 AM
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Let's get one thing clear: I don't handle stress well.
This game's not for you.
  #238  
Old 03-11-2019, 07:33 AM
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This game's not for you.
I realize this may be harsh. However, I don't think the game has a mode that matches what you seem to want--that is, a mode where death is impossible and where there's no stress, but where there's a story to complete.

Even in freedom mode, the oxygen meter is going to be there--and the (well-earned) jump-scares are gonna be around. I'm at a place in the game where I'm seeking a chasm that's south-southeast of my last landmark, and I spent about 15 minutes last night dodging terrible predators while looking for that stupid chasm, to no avail.

It's not an especially difficult game, but you can't play it in a stress-free fashion and still get the story.

Balance gives amazing advice, if you're willing to put up with some stress. But if you're really opposed to stress, I recommend Stardew Valley.
  #239  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:49 AM
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A game with no stress? That sounds kinds boring, doesn't it?

You could play Survival mode, but turn on godmode in the console. Infinite food, health, and Oxygen. But I'm not sure what you'll get out of the game, at that point. A big part of this game is, you're told "there's something cool 1 km west of this location you've found, 900 meters down" - only you can't go down 900 meters and survive yet, so you have a goal -- go and build a sub and better air tanks and a depth module to reach 900 meters.

With no oxygen meter, you could just lazily swim over and down with no issue. At that point, why even bother? Just launch the game, use the console to spawn the rocket, and finish the game.
  #240  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:55 AM
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Well, I for one hate 'timers' in games too. Basically anything that involves 'omg you have to sleep/eat/drink/breathe in this amount of time or you die'. So you can do what I did regarding oxygen and it makes the game MUCH more enjoyable. I may get some flack for admitting that but you know what? I was able to still really enjoy the game. It was still challenging and the story was engaging and I have no regrets!
  #241  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:43 AM
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Well, I for one hate 'timers' in games too. Basically anything that involves 'omg you have to sleep/eat/drink/breathe in this amount of time or you die'. So you can do what I did regarding oxygen and it makes the game MUCH more enjoyable. I may get some flack for admitting that but you know what? I was able to still really enjoy the game. It was still challenging and the story was engaging and I have no regrets!
Whatever works, I don't judge. I'm still not sure this would work for DKW, though, because the game definitely has stress in it from monsters and from the difficulty of finding certain items/locations. Maybe also use the "invincibility" cheat and also use a Wiki to find locations?

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 03-11-2019 at 10:44 AM.
  #242  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:59 PM
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But if you're really opposed to stress, I recommend Stardew Valley.
Stardew stressed me out more than Subnautica ever did. Time management is my kryptonite.
  #243  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:23 PM
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I'm down with the oxygen limitations, after all it is a game played in the water. But if I went back to do it all again, I'd probably skip using food and water.

It's not that I've ever come close to dying of dehydration or hunger...well, there was ONE time when I got distracted and all of a sudden I'M STARVING! Fortunately I was close to my secondary base. Swim swim swim! Get in! Go to the cabinet where the food and water are stored! AAAGGGH, YOU TOOK THE CURED FISH TO YOUR OTHER BASE OR LEFT IT IN THE CYCLOPS WHICH IS SOMEWHERE OR SOMETHING AHHHH!! That resulted in a frantic dive swinging my knife at anything that moved. I didn't die, but that was a little stressful.

The reason I would skip the food and water, though, is mostly BECAUSE it's never been something that kills me. All it is is a time suck. I'm set right now, I have gardens, water filtration, and a shit-ton of salt and coral. I will never be hungry or thirsty again, but God, thinking about all the time I have in this game and how much of it was taken up by finding things to eat or drink....just to satisfy a game mechanic.
  #244  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:47 PM
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But how quickly would the game be over if not only did you not have to worry about that, you also didn't have to sink time and prep into making feeding yourself a nonissue?
  #245  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:13 PM
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But how quickly would the game be over if not only did you not have to worry about that, you also didn't have to sink time and prep into making feeding yourself a nonissue?
I dunno, I got hours out of my game. At least 10-20 if not more. You still gotta find where things are, collect and build the necessary items, progress the story, etc. But you can do it at your own pace without constantly worrying about timers. Honestly, I blame the original Sonic games for my intense aversion to anything 'timer' related. Fucking underwater zones.
  #246  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:43 PM
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It's not that I've ever come close to dying of dehydration or hunger...well, there was ONE time when I got distracted and all of a sudden I'M STARVING! Fortunately I was close to my secondary base. Swim swim swim! Get in! Go to the cabinet where the food and water are stored! AAAGGGH, YOU TOOK THE CURED FISH TO YOUR OTHER BASE OR LEFT IT IN THE CYCLOPS WHICH IS SOMEWHERE OR SOMETHING AHHHH!! That resulted in a frantic dive swinging my knife at anything that moved. I didn't die, but that was a little stressful.
This was the reason for my ironclad emergency supply policy. I kept rations and medkits everywhere. Each vehicle and my own inventory had a certain amount of space reserved for this purpose, and the emergency supplies were never, ever used in a non-emergency scenario. Since I only encountered such emergencies once or twice, those inventory slots were arguably wasted--but I never had a moment of panic like you described.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want to play without those game elements; everyone likes and dislikes different aspects of games. I like planning "expeditions" in survival games--weighing what I will need, what I can expect to find along the way, and what I want to bring back. Whether that means planning for food and water in Subnautica or packing doors and torches in Minecraft, it's part of the fun for me. If that doesn't appeal to you, and you just want to enjoy the story and environment in Subnautica, there's nothing wrong with using the console to turn off the "survival" stuff.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:20 AM
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I dunno, I got hours out of my game. At least 10-20 if not more. You still gotta find where things are, collect and build the necessary items, progress the story, etc. But you can do it at your own pace without constantly worrying about timers. Honestly, I blame the original Sonic games for my intense aversion to anything 'timer' related. Fucking underwater zones.
There ya go. I took about 50 hours to get through the game, and by the end I was rushing -- if I kept doing what I had been doing and building additional bases down in the caves, I would have easily been playing for 70 or 80 hours.
  #248  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:30 AM
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Balance - Ugh. I really incredibly super-duper loathe this type of YouTube personality. I am absolutely going to have to play both series on mute (and yes, I realize that I'm probably going to miss some important audio cues), and there's a fairly good chance... around 99.9996%, conservative estimate... that their faces are quickly going to become completely intolerable and I'll have to scroll them off the screen as well. All in all, I definitely do not have high expectations for these videos. Still, it's not like I have anything better, so what the heck, this weekend I'll squeeze in what I can between Forza videos. (Seriously, cannot recommend Super GT enough; he is a maestro!)

Thanks a lot. You have a good heart and sound sincere in trying to sell this. Could've used players like you when I was first getting into Beatmania IIDX.

AngelSoft- Cheat codes?? They're still a thing? I honestly thought that the push toward more hardcore, more merciless, more brutal (and even more so now that mobile devices have swallowed so much of the non-hardcore and brutal market) would've been the death knell for these. We're now on the second console generation with no Codebreaker or anything like it. Hot damn. This...well, it's definitely worth checking out. Can't thank you enough!

Left Hand of Dorkness - Okay, here's how it works. I can handle a challenging stumbling block provided that it's neither too frequent nor too challenging. I can handle a task that looks impossible at first glance if there's a specific method for besting it that requires careful observation and/or thinking it through. I can handle a task that start out really hard but eases up if I fail too many times, fine. I can handle a task that's punishing but can be bested with persistence. And I can handle a super-difficult mission if it's completely optional and not part of the main game. If I had to pick one game which encapsulated all these, it'd be Assassin's Creed 4. Anything harder than that, I start objecting.

That said, what's wrong with wanting something stress- and death-free? I thought the PS4 was heading in that direction with games like Brothers and Everyone's Gone to the Rapture (Yahtzee was absolutely apoplectic about these, BTW, so they had to be a thing, right?)

No offense taken. I already deleted it once, so I'm perfectly willing to accept the fact that this isn't for me at all. I definitely hope not, though.

Babale - Listen, buddy, you're talking to the guy who played all the way through Ducklife 4 at least three times, spent hours playing with that fidget spinner app, and legit honest-to-god counts Final Fight 2, The Tick, and freaking WWF Super Wrestlemania among his favorite SNES games. Suffice to say that boredom is not an issue for me.
  #249  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:53 AM
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Man, we sure do all experience things differently. I only remember two stressful moments in my first Subnautica playthrough - exploring around the aft end of the Aurora and meeting a Reaper for the first time, and my initial foray into the lava zone trying to score enough kyanite to build the final depth upgrades while worrying about running out of power to lava leeches and worrying about exceeding my depth limit (didn't realize I actually couldn't do that where I was) with Sea Dragon fireballs and lava lizards constantly going off. Everyone talks about jump scares and Subnautica being a horror game in disguise and I just have no clue what they're talking about. Hardcore mode is a little annoying, because it's easy to get turned around in some wrecks and run out of air, but the normal difficulty seems ludicrously easy to me (mad fun, though).

But then I guess I'm the guy who's playing The Long Dark on Interloper at the moment because my custom difficulty setup that was supposed to be between Stalker and Interloper had gotten boring 200 days in.
  #250  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:34 AM
Balance is online now
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 8,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKW View Post
Balance - Ugh. I really incredibly super-duper loathe this type of YouTube personality.
I suggested those two because one was literally dealing with a phobia related to the game--and hence, showing as much stress as anyone playing it is ever likely to--and the other is one of the game's biggest boosters. It's as broad a contrast as I could find among YouTubers with completed game playlists. Most videos tend to be either hyped-up clips about how scary predators are or "This Old Aquatic Base" episodes about people's creative-mode builds. There aren't many videos showing safe, methodical ways of exploring the deeps or running a checklist before an expedition, because those would be boring content. There are some "first day survival guides" (which you're better off getting in text) and some "top 10 tips" (which trigger my "Top N Anything" clickbait allergy), if you want to look for them.

However, here's one about avoiding a reaper in a Seamoth with no voice or facecam (just subtitles and kind of annoying music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF-MpWBffeY
I pulled it up with a quick search on {subnautica avoid reaper}.

Quote:
I can handle a task that start out really hard but eases up if I fail too many times, fine.
So...I shouldn't suggest Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy as a followup?

Last edited by Balance; 03-15-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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