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  #51  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:42 PM
aldiboronti is offline
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Originally Posted by naita View Post
By the excellent metric of the google search the proper standard still reigns. "$10" gave me 480 million results, "10$" just 16 million.
I tried it with sign (10 is the standard in the UK). Oddly though Google gave me exactly the same figure for before and after even when I enclosed both in inverted commas. Something wrong there but my google-fu is not powerful enough to know what.
  #52  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
I tried it with sign (10 is the standard in the UK). Oddly though Google gave me exactly the same figure for before and after even when I enclosed both in inverted commas. Something wrong there but my google-fu is not powerful enough to know what.
Ooh, that's bizarre. I get the same result, 10 and 10 gives the same results as for just 10. And even weirder that same doesn't apply to ₤. This is an anti Brit conspiracy! Wait, let me check the euro symbol!

Yup, the Euro sign works perfectly. This is obviously anti-brit bias!
  #53  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:06 PM
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Look like currency searches are treated differently by google from other "punctuation", this includes ₱ that I just tested, but somehow the only halfway works that way.
  #54  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
As long as we're at it I don't care for 10+ to mean "over 10" as in "10+ years of experience" on a resume.
See, I just read that as "ten plus" and not "over ten." Perhaps it's because of this notation that it sounds perfectly colloquial to me, but it's not a usage that jars. I've certainly heard phrases like "ten plus years of experience" in spoken usage and not batted an eye. If you want to be more traditional, just think of the "+" as "and over" so "10+" is "10 and over."
  #55  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by naita View Post
Look like currency searches are treated differently by google from other "punctuation", this includes ₱ that I just tested, but somehow the only halfway works that way.
Yes, Google algorithms do not do true "exact match" searches. Back in ye olden days of altavista, I do remember if you placed anything between quotes/inverted commas, it would force a true exact string search (or at least that is my memory.) Google may or may not have worked this way once upon a time, but I cannot personally remember when it was that literal. It usually works with letters and spaces, I believe, but once you get beyond that, I'm not sure how the algorithm works. For example, I just searched "1.2,3". Note the decimal point and then the comma. Searched in quotes, Google just returns all the "1.2.3" results and does not differentiate between that and "1.2,3". (I'm straying from US style to put periods inside quotes for obvious reasons there.)
  #56  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:36 PM
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They use dollars in France?

No, but they do in Quebec and tags always say things like 2,99$ (note the comma instead of the period). Anything else is probably illegal signage. You get used to it.

In Switzerland, they say 2Fr99 I think and in France they use euros.
  #57  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
They use dollars in France?

No, but they do in Quebec and tags always say things like 2,99$ (note the comma instead of the period). Anything else is probably illegal signage. You get used to it.

In Switzerland, they say 2Fr99 I think and in France they use euros.
  #58  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
In Switzerland, they say 2Fr99 I think
Are you sure? I want to say Fr. 2,99
  #59  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Yes, Google algorithms do not do true "exact match" searches. Back in ye olden days of altavista, I do remember if you placed anything between quotes/inverted commas, it would force a true exact string search (or at least that is my memory.) Google may or may not have worked this way once upon a time, but I cannot personally remember when it was that literal. It usually works with letters and spaces, I believe, but once you get beyond that, I'm not sure how the algorithm works. For example, I just searched "1.2,3". Note the decimal point and then the comma. Searched in quotes, Google just returns all the "1.2.3" results and does not differentiate between that and "1.2,3". (I'm straying from US style to put periods inside quotes for obvious reasons there.)
The strange thing though is that apparently the dollar sign and several other currency signs are specially programmed in so that "$10" and "10$" give exact matches. But that doesn't apply for .
  #60  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Yes, Google algorithms do not do true "exact match" searches. Back in ye olden days of altavista, I do remember if you placed anything between quotes/inverted commas, it would force a true exact string search (or at least that is my memory.) Google may or may not have worked this way once upon a time, but I cannot personally remember when it was that literal. It usually works with letters and spaces, I believe, but once you get beyond that, I'm not sure how the algorithm works. For example, I just searched "1.2,3". Note the decimal point and then the comma. Searched in quotes, Google just returns all the "1.2.3" results and does not differentiate between that and "1.2,3". (I'm straying from US style to put periods inside quotes for obvious reasons there.)
Go AltaVista! Go Digital Equipment Vax!

With its Booleans, and Netscape's, and probably Google's back then in "pre-sophisticated" days, I seem to remember _any_ character (uniquely non present in the string) could be used as a delimiter.

Even today, Google's processing you lament here should not be held against it. Google supplies a logical AND anytime it recognizes an ASCII space. But not an OR.

Not sure if the other delimiters around (most commonly in my experience the vertical bar | ) are recognized. Never saw a comma in anything but...well, English.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 05-15-2019 at 06:43 PM.
  #61  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Almost all countries:




Even Canada

Some to France, but not much
But apparently NZ gave the US aid in 2016!
  #62  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:00 PM
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Rather, the Euro symbol comes after the number in most non-English styles.
I've noticed a lot of Dutch price tags written as 3.25 (not the amount, just used for eaxmple).
  #63  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:15 PM
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They use dollars in France?

That's how it's done in Quebec. I believe they use commas where we would use decimals. So I guess you would write 1 000 000,00 $ instead of $1,000,000.00 for one million dollars.
  #64  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:27 PM
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I've noticed a lot of Dutch price tags written as 3.25 (not the amount, just used for eaxmple).
Dutch is one of the exceptions. Of the EU countries, I think Ireland and the Netherlands are the only countries that put the sign before the number, and that reflects their historical usage of currency markers in their languages. I can't find anything definitive, though. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't know if the Euro symbol comes after the number in most non-English styles. I was being Eurocentric and only thinking of European languages, and for that I apologize and feel like an idiot. It is the case that it comes after the number in most non-English European styles. I don't know what the convention is in other languages, though.
  #65  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:29 AM
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I've just checked the MediaMarkt website, which is a large, German appliance and electronics retail outlet with branches throughout most of western Europe. Of course, it has sites tailored for each specific country, and it’s interesting to note that overall, they don’t use the € symbol prominently, but when they do use it, its position varies according to each country.

Something else I caught: some countries have the x.99 price ending that we’re so familiar with in the USA, and some of the countries use whole values of euro. And on top of that – I’m not sure if this is simply style, or common practice – the .00 portion is represented with a bar. Of course there’s also the different placement of the decimal character, as well as choice of decimal character.

The most impressive to me is how MediaMarkt accommodates all of these different styles for different markets. It’s kind of making me think that Canadians are a bunch of whiners.

Last edited by Balthisar; 05-16-2019 at 07:29 AM.
  #66  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:29 AM
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.... And on top of that – I’m not sure if this is simply style, or common practice – [some countries use] the .00 portion is represented with a bar. Of course there’s also the different placement of the decimal character, as well as choice of decimal character...
This point, of a symbol that to my American eyes is really out there, made me think of something not touched on (I believe) in this thread about style and evidence of marketing accommodations to it:

There are occasions such as US contracts or government, in print, where that symbol, I would surmise, would actually be illegal.

Even for personal financial contracts. Case: just wrote a check--something in these days I do relatively rarely--for a round number, and I paused before I wrote in the spelled-out line [never understood that was necessary, BTW] the "' and '00/100' ' part.

Not only do I wonder if using the bar in the numeral portion is kosher--although I suspect it is--but here, the transcription line which uses a transcription and an actual change in numeral use--would allow that.

I'm not losing sleep over the issue, but the transcription of 0 cents, which is the way I was solemnly taught, always annoyed me.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 05-16-2019 at 09:31 AM.
  #67  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
...

.. the transcription line ... uses a transcription and an actual change in numeral use ...
ETA: this usage is one more for the examples catalogue in this thread.

Plus I now note the error of mine above in standard English where numbers below 10 should be spelled out.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 05-16-2019 at 09:39 AM.
  #68  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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Plus I now note the error of mine above in standard English where numbers below 10 should be spelled out.
I tend to do this, too, but that's more the result of style guides, rather than any "standard" English, isn't it?
  #69  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:03 PM
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I tend to do this, too, but that's more the result of style guides, rather than any "standard" English, isn't it?
Yeah, it's just a matter of style. Almost all style guides, though, recommend writing out the numbers 1 through 10. But if you have multiple numbers in the same sentence, you generally just use the numerals if one is above 10 (or 100 or whatever your style guide recommends).

So 1 through 1024, not one through 1024.

And, of course, for idioms and named numbers, you write them out. One in a million. A thousand dollars.

There are other rules for addresses and phone numbers and such (generally, don't spell out the numbers).

Last edited by GreysonCarlisle; 05-16-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #70  
Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM
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Just adding my own .02 cents $.02.
ITYM $0.02 cents
  #71  
Old Yesterday, 10:21 AM
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So ten francs is 10f, oui? How about Euros?
And is it "ten Euros" or "ten Euro"? I see both, haven't gotten any sense of which is mo' betta correcterish.
  #72  
Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM
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I believe we write $10 because if you don't want the person to whom you just handed a check to alter it, you can write $10.00 and it's not easy to "edit" the amount. In contrast, 10.00$ can easily be changed to 910.00$

In an era where important sums of money changed hands based on what was written on pieces of paper, this was an important bit of security against fraud.

In contrast, no one has ever exchanged really significant sums of money that were denominated in cents, so the more linguistically natural placement of the cents sign, after the number, won out.
  #73  
Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
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Even for personal financial contracts. Case: just wrote a check--something in these days I do relatively rarely--for a round number, and I paused before I wrote in the spelled-out line [never understood that was necessary, BTW] the "' and '00/100' ' part.
It removes ambiguity if you have sloppy handwriting. As someone that's taken thousands of checks over the years, I can tell you that there have been plenty of times where I've had to refer to the written part to figure out what the number part said.

Also, and probably the bigger reason, if you just write the number, it's really easy to change it. It would be trivial to take a check for $500.00 and change it to $1500.00. But turning 'five hundred' into 'fifteen hundred' or 'one thousand five hundred' is going to much more difficult, and obvious.
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