Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:18 PM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572

Okay, You Can't Stop Your Kid from Crying, But...


Okay, parents of small children in public places, listen up. I'm willing to cut you some slack regarding your precious offspring having a good loud crying spell in a restaurant or theater or whatever. Little kids will cry, that's what they do. Of course, if you were really considerate, you'd take them out of earshot when that happens, so others wouldn't be disturbed while your baby hollars....but no. No, I realize that's a bit too much to ask in these more tolerant times.

No, you can't help it when your child shrieks in protest at something. But for the love of God, you CAN help it when your child shrieks in JOY at something!

Case in point: Today was extra crappy for me, so I thought I'd go to an ice cream parlor. It's an upscale Ghirardelli's on Michigan Avenue. I thought I'd have a hot fudge sundae, read, and relax.

Unfortunately, at the table behind me, there was a little girl, maybe three or four, who was giving Ghirardelli a really good Yelp review.

By which I mean she Yelped over and over, "YUMMY!!
DADDY THIS IS YUMMY!! DADDY? DADDY!!! THIS IS REALLY REEAALLY GOOOD!!!! YUMMY!!! DADDY THIS IS YUMMMMEEEE!!!"

Daddy was sitting next to her, ignoring her, and talking with the other two women at the table. The women did at least try to engage the little girl. Once in a while they would say to her, "You like that, huh?"

To which the little girl would say as if they were hearing-impaired, and also outside in the street and down the block, "IT'S YUMMMEEE! IT'S SOOO GOOOD!!!!!!! DADDY???? DADDY!!!!! YUMMEEEE!!!"

And Daddy replied evenly, "That's nice honey, I'm glad you like it. But let's talk quietly about it. Just like I'm talking now. You hear me talking now just like this?
Let's talk like this, okay?"

Ah, ha-ha, no, of course he didn't say that. He didn't say anything. And in a few years, the little darling will be saying to the therapist, "DADDY NEVER TALKED TO MEEEEE!!!!!"


I've noticed this happening a lot. Kids screaming, and the parents do nothing. Even when it's happy screaming, it's still inappropriate in certain public places like restaurants. And happy screaming is easily stopped as opposed to a tantrum.

And now, my crappy day is crappier.

Maybe I should've started screaming.
  #2  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:34 PM
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 31,439
I wonder whether it would be more acceptable for ultra-decibel level kiddie shrieking to occur at Dairy Queen as opposed to an Upscale ice cream joint.

Anyway, there is nothing to be done. Parents like these are accustomed to having their eardrums blasted by such kids, and nothing must be allowed to interrupt their own conversation (or more typically, yammering or otherwise fussing with their cellphones).

Console yourself that at least you don't have to go home with that kid.
  #3  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:35 PM
snfaulkner's Avatar
snfaulkner is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: 123 Fake Street
Posts: 7,461
Okay, You Can't Stop Your Kid from Crying, But...you CAN stop them from escaping the cellar.
__________________
It may be because I'm a drooling simpleton with the attention span of a demented gnat, but would you mind explaining everything in words of one syllable. 140 chars max.
  #4  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:44 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 15,166
God I hate to hear that screaming, crying, shrieking in public.
The lil'wrekker was a talker, a loud talker. It took me many lessons to teach her the inside voice/ whisper thing. But, when she was a baby I never took her anywhere at or about naptime, feeding time or when she was cranky from teething or something. It wasn't hard to do. Simplest thing ever.
Around these parts if you hear a kid screaming or crying in a store the next thing you hear is a parent screaming back at them. Or spanking them. I've seen it many times. I find it disturbing. I absolutely would not say anything to the parent. That would be foolish, indeed. These moms are crazy.
  #5  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:20 PM
Saintly Loser is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
Case in point: Today was extra crappy for me, so I thought I'd go to an ice cream parlor. It's an upscale Ghirardelli's on Michigan Avenue. I thought I'd have a hot fudge sundae, read, and relax.
If you can't stand the sound of little kids making joyful noise, maybe an ice cream parlor wasn't the place to go, especially if you were having an extra crappy day.

Just a thought.
  #6  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:23 PM
UDS is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
. . . . . . And Daddy replied evenly, "That's nice honey, I'm glad you like it. But let's talk quietly about it. Just like I'm talking now. You hear me talking now just like this? Let's talk like this, okay?"

Ah, ha-ha, no, of course he didn't say that. He didn't say anything.
Standard advice. If you want to discourage attention-seeking behaviour, ignore it. Responding to it reinforces it. Intermittently responding to it reinforces it more strongly.

You can't reason a toddler into silence or quietness. Toddler don't respond to reason.

Adults should, though. So here's some reasoning; you want to avoid the company of toddlers, maybe stay away from icecream parlours?
  #7  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:28 PM
nightshadea is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: a condo in hell 10th lvl
Posts: 5,162
yeah if there were other people there you'd of heard "awww how cute " and people trying to engage with the little girl ....

I've never gotten the whole " im negatively emotional today/week month year etc" so the public needs to stay outta my way while I'm in the outside world ... school of thought

Last edited by nightshadea; 05-15-2019 at 08:32 PM.
  #8  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:32 PM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,124
You can take your kid outside of the ice-cream parlor if your kid is crying. I had babies in Manhattan. We took them out to eat several times a week, because "out to eat" is often cheaper than "cook for yourself" in Manhattan, and God knows, there were lots of choices.

My kids rarely cried at restaurants. But when they did, one of us would pace the sidewalk with them until they quieted down.

Joyful noises are a little different. I kinda think joyful noises in an ice-cream parlor are okay. Also a pizza joint. Not a fancier restaurant. What bothers me about your story is that the dad completely ignored the child.

A librarian taught me a secret when I volunteered in a library. If you talk to someone really quietly, they usually reply to you quietly. That's what the dad should have done. When the girl said, "YUMMY", he should have given her his full attention, smiled at her, and said, "Yes, this ice-cream really is yummy. That's why I brought you here." If she continued screaming, he might have continued with "I'm really glad you like it sweetie, but let's try to be a little quieter for all these other people. What do you especially like about this ice cream?"

Last edited by puzzlegal; 05-15-2019 at 08:33 PM.
  #9  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:54 PM
black rabbit is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Dungaree High
Posts: 3,762
They have special places for adults who want to escape the sounds of children loudly expressing feelings of joy and sadness, but unfortunately they usually don't serve ice cream. They're called "bars."
  #10  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:58 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 15,166
Teach your children an inside voice as early as you can. If you don't a teacher or an aide will. Probably after calling you to come in for endless conferences and many notes home. Along with walking in line most kids learn it before kindergarten is over. And, keep your hands to yourself.
  #11  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:34 PM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,636
I think it's kind of awesome to watch a child enjoy an ice cream so much that they loudly proclaim how much they like it. It's pretty cool, I think.
  #12  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:24 PM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 41,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Teach your children an inside voice as early as you can.
Yeah, that doesn't work. When kids are upset, they scream. I've heard innumerable parents try that "Use your inside voice" crap with a screaming child; usually, the kid just screams more loudly. Using logic with a 3-5 year old is pointless. They're pretty much incapable of logical thinking at that age. By the time they're six or so, they've pretty much outgrown the screaming unless they've been over-indulged all along the way. Socialization at school usually fixes most of that.
  #13  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:40 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 15,166
It's a process. Kids make noise. I grew up in a large family. To find a quiet spot was impossible. But we never went crazy out with Daddy on us like a tight pair of jeans. He simply didn't allow it. But he was Marine D.I., so there's that.
  #14  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:53 AM
TruCelt's Avatar
TruCelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 11,154
Happy noises never bother me. I used to live next to a playground, and my roommates hated the screaming and laughter, but I loved it. What drives me crazy is people who are ignoring babies in obvious distress. I just want to smack them around and then cuddle those poor, miserable kids. Celtling only cried like that in public once, and then she was an infant. She didn't cry a lot in general, because I took care of her needs, and hugged her when she needed it.

It's just not that hard.
  #15  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:13 AM
Hilarity N. Suze is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 7,863
I would think this would be a lot better in an ice-cream parlor than in a theater. Theater, take the kid out so the rest of the audience can hear what's going on. Ice cream parlor, this IS what's going on.

My office used to be across the street from a school. Grade-school kids scream when they're out on the playground, a lot. Fortunately there was a window between me and the noise, but I didn't mind hearing it because they were having fun. I can't think of any way that could have made my day worse.
  #16  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:16 AM
pool is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Inside
Posts: 4,347
I'd rather listen to a thousand children shriek than to hear anyone refer to an animal as their furbaby or their children.
__________________
"You can do anything you set your mind to...But money helps"
  #17  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:16 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 15,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
Happy noises never bother me. I used to live next to a playground, and my roommates hated the screaming and laughter, but I loved it. What drives me crazy is people who are ignoring babies in obvious distress. I just want to smack them around and then cuddle those poor, miserable kids. Celtling only cried like that in public once, and then she was an infant. She didn't cry a lot in general, because I took care of her needs, and hugged her when she needed it.

It's just not that hard.
I agree with you. Meeting babies needs is simple.
  #18  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:53 AM
DorkVader's Avatar
DorkVader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: boise idaho
Posts: 2,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
snip
Maybe I should've started screaming.
It seems to me, you did, in your own unique adult fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
snip
Using logic with a 3-5 year old is pointless. They're pretty much incapable of logical thinking at that age.
snip
You Sir, are incorrect and your hypothesis is flawed.

Toddlers are quite capable of logic, I've used it raising 4 boys with more refinement and better result with each successive child. Dorkling rarely requires punishment or discipline because I used logic with him starting at age 2. The failure is with the adults.
Here is an article that supports my assertion.

I apologize for the naked link, it appears that between the boards, my phone and my browser, they've decided I'm no longer to be allowed to post links tagged onto individual words in the text.

https://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=...3Fuuid%3D55928
__________________
L. Californicus Deserticola Sithae

Last edited by DorkVader; 05-16-2019 at 02:56 AM.
  #19  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:20 AM
Leaffan's Avatar
Leaffan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,275
For fucks sake OP.

I'm guessing you aren't, and never will be, a parent. You annoy me much more than innocent kids do. Get a grip on reality.
  #20  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:41 AM
Spoons is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 16,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by black rabbit View Post
They have special places for adults who want to escape the sounds of children loudly expressing feelings of joy and sadness, but unfortunately they usually don't serve ice cream. They're called "bars."
I have to agree with this. My local sports bar, where I spend far too much time, doesn't admit minors. But you don't have to drink alcohol, and it has ice cream on the dessert menu. I don't expect to encounter kids there.

But at a family restaurant or ice cream parlor, I do. So, when in such a place, I just deal. That doesn't mean that behavior as described in the OP is appropriate--it's just that it should not be unexpected.
  #21  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:42 AM
Nava is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 41,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkVader View Post
You Sir, are incorrect and your hypothesis is flawed.

Toddlers are quite capable of logic, I've used it raising 4 boys with more refinement and better result with each successive child. Dorkling rarely requires punishment or discipline because I used logic with him starting at age 2. The failure is with the adults.
Here is an article that supports my assertion.
One of the biggest sources of irritation for little kids is precisely the lack of logic of the world in general and the rest of humanity in particular. Polysemies, synonyms, irregular verbs; "everybody" (parents, teachers, media) says that "trees lose their leaves in the fall" but it's spring and a tree just dropped a leaf on your head ; and of course that favorite, people who have one set of rules for themselves and one for everybody else (having different rules for different-sized people is generally considered ok or at least ok-ish, because the child can see that there is a correlation between size and physical ability). Learning the world would be so much easier if it was organized properly, damnit!
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.

Last edited by Nava; 05-16-2019 at 03:44 AM.
  #22  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:32 AM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan View Post
For fucks sake OP.

I'm guessing you aren't, and never will be, a parent. You annoy me much more than innocent kids do. Get a grip on reality.
You're right. I'm not and never will be a parent. This situation is why.

I can't understand why you think I'm the annoying one. I didn't snarl at the kid or her family, or reach over and smack them, or glare at them, or anything. I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?

I would hope if I had a kid, I would talk calmly to her or him, and try to set an example of proper behavior, and do other than just not respond.
  #23  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:45 AM
Leaffan's Avatar
Leaffan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 24,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
You're right. I'm not and never will be a parent. This situation is why.

I can't understand why you think I'm the annoying one. I didn't snarl at the kid or her family, or reach over and smack them, or glare at them, or anything. I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?

I would hope if I had a kid, I would talk calmly to her or him, and try to set an example of proper behavior, and do other than just not respond.
I'm sorry, and I no doubt sounded crass, but kids are kids. Sometimes they are wonderful and enlightening, and sometimes they're horrible. But they're kids.

Yesterday I was in a bar/restaurant and there was a cute little girl, maybe 18 months or two years old at a table behind me. She was loud and adorable. When they left the little girl kept saying "bu byeeee." It melted my heart.

YMMV
  #24  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:39 AM
SciFiSam is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beffnal Green innit
Posts: 8,272
It's an ice-cream parlour. A little kid was pleased with her ice-cream.

When my daughter was 2 I took her to a movie on a weekday afternoon. She was the only kid there for some reason, but it was near the end of the showing and we had an entire row to ourselves. She loved the movie, and cheered every time her favourite character came on screen but was otherwise fairly quiet. She stood up and walked up and down our empty aisle. We got lots of shushes and angry looks from the few adult patrons.

The movie was Toy Story 2.

There are some places where little kids are allowed to act like little kids. If you go to one, you shouldn't be surprised to see little kids acting like little kids.
  #25  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:46 AM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 19,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
You're right. I'm not and never will be a parent. This situation is why.
Yeah, sometimes the little jerks are happy about ice cream and respond like an excited kid in an ice cream shop. Can you imagine?
  #26  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:54 AM
kayaker's Avatar
kayaker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 31,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by black rabbit View Post
They have special places for adults who want to escape the sounds of children loudly expressing feelings of joy and sadness, but unfortunately they usually don't serve ice cream. They're called "bars."
Good bars have ice cream, how else could they serve a Guinness float?

ETA: if you've never had one, I urge you to enjoy a scoop of French vanilla in a glass of Guinness.

Last edited by kayaker; 05-16-2019 at 06:55 AM.
  #27  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:03 AM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572
I don't like going to bars by myself. And loud happy drinkers are not more pleasant company than loud happy kids.
  #28  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:07 AM
you with the face is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 12,155
I can see why the sound would bother people like the OP, but I also understand why the father didn’t silence the child.

It is immensely satisfying to see (and hear) your kid experiencing joy over simple things. If you’ve spent all day policing their behavior and forcing them to do things against their will, you’re going to take every opportunity to let them have feral, happy moments in low risk settings. As a parent, it gives you a break, and it gives the kid a little freedom.

For all we know, that ice cream she was squawking over was a reward for sitting still and using her inside voice all day.
  #29  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:47 AM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
I can see why the sound would bother people like the OP, but I also understand why the father didnít silence the child.

.
I didn't expect the father to "silence" the child, just perhaps quiet her down. Or at least acknowledge her delight, which might've gotten her to stop screaming for Daddy, which is what she probably really wanted.
  #30  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:05 AM
TokyoBayer's Avatar
TokyoBayer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
I just want to smack them around and then cuddle those poor, miserable kids. Celtling only cried like that in public once, and then she was an infant. She didn't cry a lot in general, because I took care of her needs, and hugged her when she needed it.

It's just not that hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkVader View Post
Toddlers are quite capable of logic, I've used it raising 4 boys with more refinement and better result with each successive child. Dorkling rarely requires punishment or discipline because I used logic with him starting at age 2. The failure is with the adults.
Some kids are better than others. Itís not so obvious with small samples such as one to four kids, but in the kindergarten classes I teach, out of 25 children, there will be kids which donít respond. Itís quite a bit more complicated than simply saying because you happened to have children that worked well with your system, then it would work for all children.

In one of my classes, there is a difficult boy. He is maturing, fortunately, but started off pretty rambunctious. It turns out that heís the son of the 15-year veteran teacher. Sheís a damn good teacher, but just had a wild child.

There are many cases where there is bad parenting, but come on, not a high percentage of babies will rarely cry if they their needs were just met. Thatís absurd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
You're right. I'm not and never will be a parent. This situation is why.

I can't understand why you think I'm the annoying one. I didn't snarl at the kid or her family, or reach over and smack them, or glare at them, or anything. I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?

I would hope if I had a kid, I would talk calmly to her or him, and try to set an example of proper behavior, and do other than just not respond.
Iím both a parent and a teacher and actually Iím sympathetic to what you went through.

For out kids, we never let them just cry or shriek in restaurants. For crying, take them outside. For playing, if it got loud enough to disturb others, then it was the same. There were many times were I quickly ate so that I could get them outside and my wife could enjoy her dinner.


She had a friend who wouldnít discipline her kids, and would let the run around yelling and such. We only went out with her once, and then I told my wife never again.

I also really donít understand why the father was ignoring the kids. For fuckís sake, interact with the kid for a bit. Take along a book, or whatever. Kids that are old enough to understand inside voices, and if you are one of the parents unfortunate enough to have children with no self-control, then it takes a lot more work, but thatís part of the job.
  #31  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:25 AM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 15,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
I can't understand why you think I'm the annoying one. I didn't snarl at the kid or her family, or reach over and smack them, or glare at them, or anything. I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?
This is exactly what it's like to be on the brink of a bipolar depressive rage episode. Empathy, which ought to have allowed you to take up at least some of the tot's joy, sours instead into a flavor narcissism that makes it reasonable to assume the rest of the world owes you a wide and reverent berth, even when you go out in public. Nothing is good, and every stimulus seems engineered to work your last nerve. I say "brink" because man, BPD is just one step away from that wicked mindset, and it is a long and intense drop. Not diagnosing Too Many Cats, just judging and rambling: that's pretty messed up to hate on a happy kid.

And we don't know what was going on in Daddy's world. Seems like the kid wasn't afraid of him or nervous around him, so he's probably established himself as a source of happiness to the kid. That he was perhaps not so in this moment can be explained by a million adulting challenges.
  #32  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:45 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
Happy noises never bother me. I used to live next to a playground, and my roommates hated the screaming and laughter, but I loved it. What drives me crazy is people who are ignoring babies in obvious distress. I just want to smack them around and then cuddle those poor, miserable kids. Celtling only cried like that in public once, and then she was an infant. She didn't cry a lot in general, because I took care of her needs, and hugged her when she needed it.

It's just not that hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
I agree with you. Meeting babies needs is simple.
Naw. It can be that hard. I don't recall my son crying except when he had a reason to, but my daughter had colic, and cried all the time. In retrospect, it's possible she had stomach aches due to severe lactose intolerance, but it's also possible she was just a crier. Anyway, we would hold her, walk around with her, offer her food, check her diaper, bounce her, try to soothe her.... nothing worked, she just kept screaming. Not all the time, but pretty often.

She was our first.

I have a friend who's second was a crier. He said when he had the first child, he felt smug. "Parenting is easy. If you meet their needs, they are happy." Then he had the second one and realized that didn't always work.

The only cure for an unhappy screaming child in a restaurant is to take the kid outside and walk up and down the sidewalk until they quiet down enough that you can finish your food. (Or until the spouse finishes his food, and can take over hold the kid while you finish.)

I do think that children can be trained to use their "inside voices" when they are happy.

Still the only thing that would have bothered me in the OP's story is the father ignoring his child. And frankly, it sounds to me like she was being loud in an attempt to get his attention. One thing all children crave is their parent's attention, and while parents need some downtime, too, I bet he could have met her need in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
...
I also really donít understand why the father was ignoring the kids. For fuckís sake, interact with the kid for a bit. Take along a book, or whatever. Kids that are old enough to understand inside voices, and if you are one of the parents unfortunate enough to have children with no self-control, then it takes a lot more work, but thatís part of the job.
Yup.
  #33  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:48 AM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 19,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
And we don't know what was going on in Daddy's world. Seems like the kid wasn't afraid of him or nervous around him, so he's probably established himself as a source of happiness to the kid. That he was perhaps not so in this moment can be explained by a million adulting challenges.
Most likely, the father's threshold for what's considered unacceptable levels of joyful noise is a fair bit higher than Too Many Cats'. I'm willing to bet that the father isn't some ignoring negligent monster, having just bought an ice cream sundae for his kid and her approaching him in glee about it. Not the sort of thing you can really debate though when all we have is the situation through the lens of the OP.
  #34  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:57 AM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
This is exactly what it's like to be on the brink of a bipolar depressive rage episode. Empathy, which ought to have allowed you to take up at least some of the tot's joy, sours instead into a flavor narcissism that makes it reasonable to assume the rest of the world owes you a wide and reverent berth, even when you go out in public. Nothing is good, and every stimulus seems engineered to work your last nerve. I say "brink" because man, BPD is just one step away from that wicked mindset, and it is a long and intense drop. Not diagnosing Too Many Cats, just judging and rambling: that's pretty messed up to hate on a happy kid.
Great. Now I'm not just annoying, I'm a raging bipolar ticking timebomb. Bravo Straight Dope Message Board. I will contact the authorities immediately so that they can stop me before I start the killing spree. Sound advice.

Last edited by Two Many Cats; 05-16-2019 at 08:58 AM.
  #35  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:01 AM
Annie-Xmas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 53,400
I'm a store cashier. If a child gets too loud at the register, I just say "Please use your indoor voice in the store." It usually works. If they are screaming and dancing in joy, I say "You do that Happy Dance" and start dancing with them. They usually stop screaming in absolute surprise.

Once a woman had three daughters at the register. The youngest (around eight) was screaming and acting like a brat. The older two will standing by the register, being nice and silent. I rang up the purchases, did the transaction. and said "Thank you. And thank you to these two ladies for acting so nice." The brat's jaw dropped and the mother, bless her soul, said "See, I told you people notice how you act in public." I said "Yes, and those two young ladies are behaving prop-er-ly." The y broke into huge smiles.

The brat calmed down, helped me put the bags into the shopping cart, and said "Thank you" in a nice, quiet respectful voice. I said "Thank you for behaving right."

I think that youngest child learned something that day.
  #36  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:10 AM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 15,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
Great. Now I'm not just annoying, I'm a raging bipolar ticking timebomb. Bravo Straight Dope Message Board. I will contact the authorities immediately so that they can stop me before I start the killing spree. Sound advice.
Silly. The authorities won't do anything about it. We live in a free society that is happy to let people destroy themselves and their human connections with untreated mental illness. And seriously, the remark was more an observation of something I've known and could admittedly be completely not your sitch. But if it sounds right, there's help.
  #37  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:11 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,124
Annie, I hope you have kids -- you sound like you'd be great at it!
  #38  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:17 AM
Nava is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 41,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
Naw. It can be that hard. I don't recall my son crying except when he had a reason to, but my daughter had colic, and cried all the time. In retrospect, it's possible she had stomach aches due to severe lactose intolerance, but it's also possible she was just a crier. Anyway, we would hold her, walk around with her, offer her food, check her diaper, bounce her, try to soothe her.... nothing worked, she just kept screaming. Not all the time, but pretty often.
"Colic" doesn't mean "baby screams frequently because". It means "baby screams frequently because of a (usually medical) problem that isn't being solved"; she was crying because she had needs that weren't met. What's different is which needs each baby has and how easy it is to meet them. It's like looking for gifts, or like the weight loss equation: we all know "calories in, calories out", but mixing that with your own activity levels, allergies, anxiety, stress, food availability or food preferences ranges from "very easy" to "a total bitch".
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.

Last edited by Nava; 05-16-2019 at 09:20 AM.
  #39  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:19 AM
Annie-Xmas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 53,400
Actually, I don't have children. But I worked in day care and learned a lot about making them behave right. And while they might argue with their parents, how can they argue with a person in a position of authority at the store?

In another register incident, a boy wanted a toy and his parents said "NO." He said "Well, I sitting on the floor until you buy it." He then sat.

I rang up the purchases, gave the father back his credit card, acted like I was seeing the sitting boy for the first time and said "We don't allow sitting on the floor here. You have to stand up." Boy stands up, his mother grabs his arm and marches him out of the store (while biting her lip to keep from laughing) and the father mouths "Thank you" to me.
  #40  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:31 AM
Dung Beetle's Avatar
Dung Beetle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,331
Two Many Cats, I'm a parent and I sympathize. My kids are grown now, but I've always had a low tolerance level for noise. As you said in the OP, the Dad could have handled it way better.
  #41  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:53 AM
Tapiotar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
You're right. I'm not and never will be a parent. This situation is why.

I can't understand why you think I'm the annoying one. I didn't snarl at the kid or her family, or reach over and smack them, or glare at them, or anything. I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?

I would hope if I had a kid, I would talk calmly to her or him, and try to set an example of proper behavior, and do other than just not respond.
I get it, Two Many Cats. I have never been around small children much, and am hypersensitive to sudden, loud, high-pitched sounds. Joyful sounds can be just as jarring to the nervous system as unhappy ones, especially if you've had a bad day.

But I also understand that kids need times and places to be kids, and in urban areas, they are hard to come by. Out in the country, when I was growing up, we could run around and make noise outdoors, and be kids, so it was easier to be quiet indoors. Also, our parents never took us out to restaurants while we were infants or toddlers, probably not before we were 8 years or older, and could behave in public. Even the local ice cream parlor...that was a special treat place, and we were required to behave well inside. As opposed to a drive-up ice cream stand, where you didn't have to behave.

Nowadays, in urban areas, kids have to grow up in public and express themselves in public. Ice cream joints and Chuck E. Cheese and children's movies and children's museums and playgrounds are those places where kids can run around and shriek and be kids. I stay away from those places.. Given your name, I assume you are fond of cats. Think of yourself as being like a cat, whose finely-tuned senses make it difficult to be around unpredictable sources of loud noise. Like a cat, choose your locations carefully, and have an escape route planned, and another source of comfort in mind when your first choice is neutralized.

Like others, it seems to me the child wanted attention from her father, and he was not willing to give it. It happens.
  #42  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:09 AM
slalexan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 345
Not to pile on, but I am particularly sympathetic to the dad in situation.

My daughter is 5 years old and wonderful in every way, but she's also needy. She has a speech delay and that has, unfortunately, trained her that, if we don't respond the first time, saying the same thing again and louder will often do the trick. She also doesn't have the best gauge of what is an appropriate volume level because of her sensory issues. This works in our favor most of the time because she is usually whispering but she'll swing the other way too.

I can imagine the day for the dad went something like this. He started his day at 6 am, when his daughter woke up. Children don't always sleep in on weekends. They had breakfast and his child talked non-stop, even while eating. She told him everything that was happening, how much she enjoyed breakfast, her hopes and dreams, what her imaginary friend was doing, etc. while he listened and engaged intently. They ran their errands and she behaved nicely (while still talking) so Dad decided she deserved some ice cream. Also, at this point, Dad is really craving some conversation that is not about what his daughter's imaginary friend was doing. So he let her have her ice cream while he got some of the human interaction he needed.

Should he have handled it better? Maybe. But guess what, ain't none of us perfect and we are all just trying our best.

Regardless, I'm sorry you had a bad time. I'm not sure what would have made it better for you. It is the unfortunate side effect of going out in public where there are other people.
  #43  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:34 AM
Royal Nonesutch is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 324
I have long opined that the ChicagoLand metro area was sorely in need of a tasteful, upscale "adults-only" topless ice-cream parlour.
  #44  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:53 AM
Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Nonesutch View Post
I have long opined that the ChicagoLand metro area was sorely in need of a tasteful, upscale "adults-only" topless ice-cream parlour.
Topless? But it's the toppings that make the ice cream good!

What?
  #45  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:14 AM
TruCelt's Avatar
TruCelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 11,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
I didn't expect the father to "silence" the child, just perhaps quiet her down. Or at least acknowledge her delight, which might've gotten her to stop screaming for Daddy, which is what she probably really wanted.
I agree with you there. I would have been seething - at the Dad for ignoring his child that way.
  #46  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:18 AM
WOOKINPANUB's Avatar
WOOKINPANUB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: St Petersburg, Floriduhhh
Posts: 6,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly Loser View Post
If you can't stand the sound of little kids making joyful noise, maybe an ice cream parlor wasn't the place to go, especially if you were having an extra crappy day.

Just a thought.
I completely get that there are places where kids are welcome / expected to be loud but I'm not sure why an ice cream parlor is one of them (especially an upscale one). Why, because kids like ice cream so the shop automatically becomes their domain?
  #47  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:33 AM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 41,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkVader View Post
It seems to me, you did, in your own unique adult fashion.



You Sir, are incorrect and your hypothesis is flawed.

Toddlers are quite capable of logic, I've used it raising 4 boys with more refinement and better result with each successive child. Dorkling rarely requires punishment or discipline because I used logic with him starting at age 2. The failure is with the adults.
Here is an article that supports my assertion.

I apologize for the naked link, it appears that between the boards, my phone and my browser, they've decided I'm no longer to be allowed to post links tagged onto individual words in the text.

https://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?cid=...3Fuuid%3D55928
What that article points out is that young children (babies, even) can use rudimentary process of elimination. It's not a totally new discovery, as Piaget was aware that babies and infants could differentiate between themselves and other babies, but it's a far cry from full-on logical analysis. To imply that your own children could somehow demonstrate abstract thinking at age two borders on ridiculous (no offense intended). I would suspect that you've experienced a degree of confirmation bias in dealing with your own children.
  #48  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:43 PM
Hopeful Crow is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: City of Destiny
Posts: 861
I can understand Two Many Cats' frustration. There's a certain pitch that some young children reach that stabs at my poor eardrums. Sometimes it actually makes me flinch.

I always hope the parents don't notice and think I'm judging them because I really try not to, especially when the kid is happy. And when the kid isn't happy, I think about how the parents probably don't need the extra stress of knowing the child is bothering other people.

What helps me a lot is remembering, "This too shall pass." In a few minutes or half hour the family and I will have parted ways and that will be that.

It's the same thing I think when I'm in bed and a car pulls up to the convenience store next door with their super loud muffler. ground thumper, house-shaking vibrating thingy or good old-fashioned music that can be heard for blocks around. Thankfully, they don't seem to find the parking lot conducive to hanging around for long so they're on their way in five or, at most, ten minutes.

Like I said, this too shall pass.
__________________
Cigarettes are like squirrels. They're perfectly harmless until you put one in your mouth and light it on fire.
  #49  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:12 PM
nearwildheaven is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
"Colic" doesn't mean "baby screams frequently because". It means "baby screams frequently because of a (usually medical) problem that isn't being solved"; she was crying because she had needs that weren't met. What's different is which needs each baby has and how easy it is to meet them. It's like looking for gifts, or like the weight loss equation: we all know "calories in, calories out", but mixing that with your own activity levels, allergies, anxiety, stress, food availability or food preferences ranges from "very easy" to "a total bitch".
I used to work with a man whose first child had something that went way beyond colic; his longest crying session lasted - this is not a typo - FORTY HOURS. One and a half days, plus 4 hours, with no letup. My co-worker said his mother said he and his brother were the same way, and his grandparents said that his father, who died before my co-worker had his kids, was the same way.

It turned out the baby had very severe reflux, as his father, grandfather, and uncle probably also did, and medication relieved it to some degree. It also solved the projectile vomiting that he experienced with every feeding.

And it must not have been THAT bad, because they later had 3 more kids, all of them planned.

I found out about all this when he was looking at the ER roster, and there was a newborn whose visit reason was "Won't stop crying." He pshawed this, and explained why. I replied that maybe whatever that baby was doing was NOT normal for it, and that's why the parent(s) brought it in.

I, too don't mind children periodically shrieking with pleasure, and the situation between the little girl and her father was nobody else's business. It sounded like he had some kind of meeting that needed to be done in a public place, and he didn't have anyone else to watch the child. Whenever I see really truly horribly behaved kids, which is not often, the parents are almost always acting worse than the kids.
  #50  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:21 PM
DorkVader's Avatar
DorkVader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: boise idaho
Posts: 2,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
What that article points out is that young children (babies, even) can use rudimentary process of elimination. It's not a totally new discovery, as Piaget was aware that babies and infants could differentiate between themselves and other babies, but it's a far cry from full-on logical analysis. To imply that your own children could somehow demonstrate abstract thinking at age two borders on ridiculous (no offense intended). I would suspect that you've experienced a degree of confirmation bias in dealing with your own children.
I didn't say anstract thinking, nor did I try or intend to try to imply abstract thinking by toddlers. Thats the failure of adults I referenced. We, as adults, are so accustomed to having to think and act in complex ways that we often "stumble" when confronted by the simpler, less developed logic of children.

Also, perhaps something was lost in translation from thought to electron to pixel, a widely commented limitation of the medium of communication, but there was meant to be a bit of "this is ridiculous" humor in my post. As I said, the medium jas some failings, I may have been to subtle with it.
__________________
L. Californicus Deserticola Sithae
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017