Straight Dope Message Board

[E-DUB]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Trump is gonna win again and it’ll be no ones fault but the oppositions.

The left needs votes from independents and fence sitters but all they do is vilify, throw shit, isolate themselves, and fall off the left side of the political map.

But they need those votes, too. Democrats need the votes of every who has ever voted Democratic and some folks who never have. Because they need not just more votes but QED:2000+2016, they need more more votes. 51

[begbert2]

Originally Posted by cmosdes

I'm not so sure he is as dissatisfied as you outlined, but if he is, sure, you are ahead of him under a different definition of winning.

Trump has made it pretty clear that he doesn't like the white house (not enough gold plating), and he most certainly doesn't like doing the job. And sure he gets to spend most of his time watching TV and golfing, but can you credibly say he wasn't doing that already? I get the distinct impression he considers the presidency a step down from where he was prior to being elected, in pretty much every material way. And that's before you get into the increased legal scrutiny that being president has gotten him.

You may think that being president is the height of success, but I think he doesn't. He claims otherwise because admitting failure or fault makes his neurotic little brain break, and he'll cling to the office to his last breath because however much of a step down it was, where he's going after will almost certainly be far worse - four walls and a cot, or six walls and a pillow. 52

[bobot]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Trump got there exactly because he understood his electorate and appealed to it in the right way through a series of calculated steps and statements. ....

That ain't how he got there. He got there by throwing random idiocy, hustler con man grand promises and racist vulgarity at the wall. Seeing what stuck, he doubled down on that. He ain't a fucking strategist, he's a salesman. 53

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by cmosdes

Huh. When was the last chimp you met that lived the lifestyle of a billionaire? One that owned multiple luxury resorts? One that was elected president?

People have never made a chimp President.

Because there's never been a chimp in Trump's position.

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Trump got there exactly because he understood his electorate and appealed to it in the right way through a series of calculated steps and statements.

No, he got to be President because the Republicans spent decades propagandizing their base into idolizing bigotry, cruelty, stupidity and arrogance; Trump just exemplifies more that more than the people they intended to take advantage of it. He doesn't make calculated statements, he emits verbal white noise his followers interpret to mean what they like.

He accidentally stepped into the hole they carved into themselves and rode the machine they made to victory. 54

[Ukulele Ike]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

....The son of a bitch is a master of misdirection and should be studied.

I agree completely, as long as we bring back anesthesia-fee vivisection. 55

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Sounds like both a convenient and inaccurate excuse to absolve Trump voters.

Absolve? The electorate has the right to vote in any way they choose, if your party lost its your own fault, not the people.

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

"The left of the political map" being defined as "anyone who does not think that dirty immigrants should be locked up in cages"

You mean illegal immigrants, and detention centers. You know, like every other country on the plant does when someone illegally crosses the border.

But again this just reflects my original point. Statements like these are so far to the left they almost fall of the map, and are very unpopular with the electorate, yet your party insists on putting them front and center, giving trump all the ammunition he needs.

Or, for every illegal immigrant that illegally crosses the border, Trump should import 3 impoverished right wing Polish/South African/Ukrainian patriots to offset the future electorate impact.

Fair is fair. 56

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

You mean illegal immigrants, and detention centers. You know, like every other country on the plant does when someone illegally crosses the border.

?Really? Every other country separates children from their parents, and then locks the kids up? I must admit, I did not know this. Astounding.

I guess Canada is so far to the left that it falls off the map.

If your idea of "far left" is "don't lock children up in cages for crossing a border" then it's hard for me to figure out the political spectrum, I guess. 57

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by cmosdes

Huh. When was the last chimp you met that lived the lifestyle of a billionaire? One that owned multiple luxury resorts? One that was elected president?

People have never made a chimp President. They never will. Your definition is absurd. You are exactly the type that I'm railing against. You are refusing to acknowledge that Trump has gotten himself into a very, very successful position. As wrong as that is, to continue to deny he made it there is dumb because it likely means he will continue to succeed due to people continue to under estimate him. You can rail all you want to say he was just plain lucky and fortunate and hope his luck runs out, but he continues to do what he wants when he wants.

Bury your head in the sand, plug your ears and say, "la la la la la" all you want. He got there. He needs to be gone and waiting for him to screw it up himself is seeming to be less and less likely.

Personally, I view this not so much as Trump's accomplishment, but as America's failure. 58

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Absolve? The electorate has the right to vote in any way they choose, if your party lost its your own fault, not the people.

Make up your mind, either votes represent the will of the people casting them or are the result of conditioned response to salesmanship.

If the electorate has the right, they should also accept the responsibility and if need be, the scorn and blame. If they don't like it, well..... tough shit, fuckfaces. 59

[Monty]

Odd thing, though, is that the "will of the people" in the 2016 election was for the other candidate, not the clown who got voted in by the EC. 60

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Monty

Odd thing, though, is that the "will of the people" in the 2016 election was for the other candidate, not the clown who got voted in by the EC.

For a forum that sells itself as “fighting ignorance” there really are some dumb motherfuckers on here.

Popular vote was nothing more than anecdotal, meaningless horseshit. It’s not even how the game is played. Invoking it is something the sour grapes crew has fixated on. 61

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Make up your mind, either votes represent the will of the people casting them or are the result of conditioned response to salesmanship.

If the electorate has the right, they should also accept the responsibility and if need be, the scorn and blame. If they don't like it, well..... tough shit, fuckfaces.

How very tolerant and democratic, Mr Democrat.

Brought to you by the same people that want to take your guns and instate red flag laws.

How is it that you clowns can’t see that you are everything you dislike in others, only worse. 62

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

?Really? Every other country separates children from their parents, and then locks the kids up? I must admit, I did not know this. Astounding.

I guess Canada is so far to the left that it falls off the map.

If your idea of "far left" is "don't lock children up in cages for crossing a border" then it's hard for me to figure out the political spectrum, I guess.

So it’s clearly a better choice to leave them with hordes of people who use them as pawns to get preferential treatment at the border they were illegally trying to cross. 63

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

So it’s clearly a better choice to leave them with hordes of people who use them as pawns to get preferential treatment at the border they were illegally trying to cross.

Well, I'm not amazed now at seeing people like you show how monstrous people like you can get. It is better to leave them with their families. Of course it is likely that here you are talking about the ones that are using kids from others to pretend that they are the real parents, but that also just shows how an ignorant you are of the numbers:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/u...factcheck.html

But characterizing the increase of this type of fraud as “staggering” is misleading. The data reflects a period of less than two years, making it difficult to draw a meaningful historical comparison. And the instances of fraud make up less than 1 percent of families apprehended at the border.

The numbers Ms. Nielsen cites are correct. Katie Waldman, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security, told The New York Times that there were 46 cases of fraudulent family claims in the 2017 fiscal year, which began in October 2016 and ended in September 2017. In just the first five months of the 2018 fiscal year, there were 191 cases — a 315 percent increase.

But those instances of family fraud are a tiny fraction of the total number of families apprehended at the southwestern border: 0.06 percent of nearly 76,000 families in the 2017 fiscal year and 0.6 percent of 31,000 families apprehended in the first five months of the 2018 fiscal year.

64

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Trump is gonna win again and it’ll be no ones fault but the oppositions.

The left needs votes from independents and fence sitters but all they do is vilify, throw shit, isolate themselves, and fall off the left side of the political map.

Anyone who believes this is already committed to voting for Trump. 65

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

How very tolerant and democratic, Mr Democrat.

Hah, please. I'm Canadian. Were I American, I expect I'd've voted for Democratic presidential nominees since 1992 (in 1988, I think I would have preferred Bush41 over Dukakis) mostly because in my lifetime, I've seen Republicans increasing abandoning the field of reason. Frankly, I'd consider it both rude and disrespectful to pretend my friend wasn't doing something stupid when he was clearly doing something very very stupid. I consider the U.S. to be a friendly nation and you will have my support on most issues, but voting for Trump.... well, I'm not going to sugarcoat the colossal stupidity of that.

Brought to you by the same people that want to take your guns and instate red flag laws.

Well, you do have a lot more guns than you actually need, but as long as you keep them on your side of the border, I figure it's your problem to deal with.

How is it that you clowns can’t see that you are everything you dislike in others, only worse.

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and I suspect you don't know what the fuck you're talking about either. 66

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

For a forum that sells itself as “fighting ignorance” there really are some dumb motherfuckers on here.

Popular vote was nothing more than anecdotal, meaningless horseshit. It’s not even how the game is played. Invoking it is something the sour grapes crew has fixated on.

Good grief, you're one mighty stupid moron! Anecdote is a story. It's a fact that the majority of voters in the 2016 presidential election voted for one particular candidate, not the candidate with the abomination on his head. It's a fact that the Electoral College selected Trump, not the person who, going by the usual meaning of "the will of the people", was selected by said will of the people. I did not say anything other than the facts of the matter. The "sour grapes" bit is something you are pretending to read into what I posted.

Stop being a liar and you won't have so many problems here. Well, you'll still be a problem, but you'll be less of one. 67

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by cmosdes

Huh. When was the last chimp you met that lived the lifestyle of a billionaire? One that owned multiple luxury resorts? One that was elected president?

Trump's been handed all the success he's had in life. He was given his money by his father and he was given the Presidency by conservative efforts to rig the election process in their favor.

I'll grant that he may continue to receive these rewards. But I won't pretend he earned them through his own efforts. 68

[Ukulele Ike]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Brought to you by the same people that want to take your guns and instate red flag laws.

You got guns?

I’m’a comin’ to GRAB ‘em!

I’m standing in the shadows just outside your back door.

If you come outside with your guns, I’m’a gonna stick a finger up each of your nostrils and YANK really hard.

When you’re bent over sobbing and bleeding, I’m gonna GRAB those guns! And then I’m gonna leave. With your wife. 69

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike

You got guns?

I’m’a comin’ to GRAB ‘em!

I’m standing in the shadows just outside your back door.

If you come outside with your guns, I’m’a gonna stick a finger up each of your nostrils and YANK really hard.

When you’re bent over sobbing and bleeding, I’m gonna GRAB those guns! And then I’m gonna leave. With your wife.

You’re not gonna do any of that, and everyone knows it. 70

[septimus]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

You’re not gonna do any of that, and everyone knows it.

Perhaps you should Google sarcasm. 71

[bobot]

Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike

You got guns?

I’m’a comin’ to GRAB ‘em!

I’m standing in the shadows just outside your back door.

If you come outside with your guns, I’m’a gonna stick a finger up each of your nostrils and YANK really hard.

When you’re bent over sobbing and bleeding, I’m gonna GRAB those guns! And then I’m gonna leave. With your wife.

Originally Posted by Annoyed

You’re not gonna do any of that, and everyone knows it.

That shit is real. I've seen him do it. The nostril thing is worse than it sounds like. 72

[cmosdes]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Trump's been handed all the success he's had in life. He was given his money by his father and he was given the Presidency by conservative efforts to rig the election process in their favor.

I'll grant that he may continue to receive these rewards. But I won't pretend he earned them through his own efforts.

I heard a podcast once that talked about the story line for successful people. In every instance it involved luck and privileged opportunity and was never solely because of the efforts and intelligence of the person.

Trump was given a HUGE head start in life and for most of his life he did what most people so fortunate would do. He lived a life of luxury, sometimes doing well, other times squandering it. But what he didn't do was end up like Jim Bakker selling wares on late night TV.

Trump did SOMETHING to get himself where he is, even it was just plain luck. I would venture to guess most would call what he has successful if it weren't for the fact it is Trump. 73

[cmosdes]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

Because there's never been a chimp in Trump's position.

So we agree. A chimp couldn't be where Trump is and never will be.

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

He accidentally stepped into the hole they carved into themselves and rode the machine they made to victory.

Trump, not the dozen other candidates in 2016, rode the machine to victory. You admit it was Trump that succeeded where others failed.

But again, you are focusing on the process by which he got there. This isn't about that. This is about the fact HE IS THERE. Trump can act with impunity. He lives a life of luxury. Whatever method got him there, he is there. And every move he makes, no matter how dumb the rest of us think it is, does not seem to be bringing him down. He has a powerful shield around him in Mitch and Barr and a weak speaker in Pelosi who doesn't have the fortitude to do anything about him.

You can keep waiting for his next action or next step to bring him down. But nothing so far has done that and it is looking less and less likely to do so. He can do what he wants. He knows it. You can't deny that, no matter how he got there. 74

[sps49sd]

The racist Nazi sympathizer Trump has finally deported the last Nazi back to Germany.

Positive Trump news? 75

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by septimus

Perhaps you should Google sarcasm.

I did.
They spelled it wrong. 76

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

So it’s clearly a better choice to leave them with hordes of people who use them as pawns to get preferential treatment at the border they were illegally trying to cross.

So.... Instead of finding which kids are "pawns" (hint - 0.06 percent of 76,000 families), and helping them, your solution is to toss ALL of the kids into cages.

Sounds like a plan that Trumpistas would love. Actually, it sounds like something a fucking sadist would love. 77

[bobot]

He said "hordes". That was supposed to scare you. You didn't sound scared. 78

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

Anyone who believes this is already committed to voting for Trump.

I’d vote for satan himself over where the current left wants to steer the nation. 79

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

So.... Instead of finding which kids are "pawns" (hint - 0.06 percent of 76,000 families), and helping them, your solution is to toss ALL of the kids into cages.

Sounds like a plan that Trumpistas would love. Actually, it sounds like something a fucking sadist would love.

Detention centers. It’s where illegal aliens go when they cross a border illegally.

Not into the population. Detention center, or back to their home country. 80

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

I’d vote for satan himself over where the current left wants to steer the nation.

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Detention centers. It’s where illegal aliens go when they cross a border illegally.

Not into the population. Detention center, or back to their home country.

You're a terrible person, but sadly not an atypical American. 81

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

I’d vote for satan himself over where the current left wants to steer the nation.

It's nice to know where your loyalties lie. 82

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

You're a terrible person, but sadly not an atypical American.

Oh, you’re just as terrible as me. Don’t fool yourself.

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

It's nice to know where your loyalties lie.

Thanks. 83

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Or, for every illegal immigrant that illegally crosses the border, Trump should import 3 impoverished right wing Polish/South African/Ukrainian patriots to offset the future electorate impact.

So you're okay with immigrants. As long as they're white.

It's rare to see a Trump supporter come right out and say it in public. 84

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Oh, you’re just as terrible as me. Don’t fool yourself.

No, we're not. I know this is a common belief among Deplorables; that we all are thinking the same thing you are but we're just too politically correct to say it out loud.

But it's not true. Some of us really think bigotry is wrong. And I'm not some hippy liberal. I'm an old white guy who worked on a farm. I was even a Republican for a long time - until people like you took over the party.

That's why you're losing. Every year there are fewer people like you around. It's not just black people and brown people and yellow people and women and gays and Muslims and Jews who are against you. It's people like me who have no problem with the idea that everyone is equal. 85

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

So you're okay with immigrants. As long as they're white.

It's rare to see a Trump supporter come right out and say it in public.

I’m ok with all immigrants, as long as they follow immigration laws.

Pick a country where the population is mostly right wing and I’ll take those any day. Regardless of skin color.

Every migrant the left gets from south of the border, we get one from anywhere else.

Seems fair to me, unless it’s about swaying the electorate in your favor. It’s not about that is it?

What I find infuriating is that for some reason the left has come completely out of the closet regarding immigrants from south of the border knowing full well they overwhelmingly vote democrat when given the chance, and merely by their proximity to the US border they should get some preferable treatment over other nations with people in poverty.

Satan > The left. 86

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Detention centers. It’s where illegal aliens go when they cross a border illegally.

Not into the population. Detention center, or back to their home country.

And separating the children from parents. Then sending the kids thousands of miles away, and "losing" the paperwork" about where they are.

You can call the cages "chain link luxury apartments" if you like. But it does not change the fact that this administration are treating human beings abysmally, and people like you like it this way. 87

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by sps49sd

The racist Nazi sympathizer Trump has finally deported the last Nazi back to Germany.

Positive Trump news?

He's just decided to favor domestic Nazis over the imported ones. 88

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

I’m ok with all immigrants, as long as they follow immigration laws.

And you want laws that prohibit any immigration. So you're saying you're okay with immigrants as long as they don't immigrate. (At least as far as immigrants from "shithole countries" are concerned.)

Let's drop the nonsense about people coming from right wing countries and left wing countries. Nobody inherits a political ideology. Do you feel children born in America while Bill Clinton or Barack Obama were President are liberals and children born while George Bush or Donald Trump were President are conservative?

What you mean is you think white people vote for Republicans and non-white people vote for Democrats.

The Democrats aren't courting non-white voters. They're getting non-white voters because people like you have turned the Republicans into the white man's party. 89

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by cmosdes

Trump did SOMETHING to get himself where he is, even it was just plain luck.

Donald Trump did about as much to get himself where he is as Queen Elizabeth did.

But he's not doing as good a job of it. 90

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

No, we're not. I know this is a common belief among Deplorables; that we all are thinking the same thing you are but we're just too politically correct to say it out loud.

But it's not true. Some of us really think bigotry is wrong. And I'm not some hippy liberal. I'm an old white guy who worked on a farm. I was even a Republican for a long time - until people like you took over the party.

That's why you're losing. Every year there are fewer people like you around. It's not just black people and brown people and yellow people and women and gays and Muslims and Jews who are against you. It's people like me who have no problem with the idea that everyone is equal.

You’ve made some serious judgment leaps about my excellent self.

I don’t care about anyone’s skin color or religion, what I care about is a fair playing field, politically, and for my rights, personally, to remain untouched.

Your side openly wants to sway the electorate in their favor by importing votes, and you know it.

That’s subversion, and pure filth from where I sit. That’s the lefts whole angle.

And yes, you’re a bigot. This is simple fact. Now, where we differ is that I don’t personally give a fuck, but to call me one is quite funny. There is nothing wrong with stopping illegal immigration, focusing on citizens over “migrants” and spending our nations treasure on our own citizens.

You are on the fringe, not me. 91

[Annoyed]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

And you want laws that prohibit any immigration. So you're saying you're okay with immigrants as long as they don't immigrate. (At least as far as immigrants from "shithole countries" are concerned.)

Let's drop the nonsense about people coming from right wing countries and left wing countries. Nobody inherits a political ideology. Do you feel children born in America while Bill Clinton or Barack Obama were President are liberals and children born while George Bush or Donald Trump were President are conservative?

What you mean is you think white people vote for Republicans and non-white people vote for Democrats.

The Democrats aren't courting non-white voters. They're getting non-white voters because people like you have turned the Republicans into the white man's party.

Ok, statistically, how do people from south of the border vote?

First year non-English speaking migrants overwhelmingly vote democrat. This is a statistical fact.

You may have good intentions (doubt it) but your politicians don’t, and they know exactly what they are doing. 92

[ThelmaLou]

Sigh. A new thread playground for trolls to frolic in and get the attention they desperately crave. 93

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Pick a country where the population is mostly right wing and I’ll take those any day. Regardless of skin color.

Every migrant the left gets from south of the border, we get one from anywhere else.

Heh. You'd have a tough time finding "right wing" immigrants from most other countries who wouldn't be way left of the Republicans on a lot of issues.

Right-wingers in Poland, for example, would be shocked at the lack of publicly funded universal health care in the US, and they have far more restrictive laws on gun ownership than we do. You import a demographically significant number of Polish immigrants for "your side" and all it'll get you is faster "socialized medicine" and stricter gun control.

The US conservative movement couldn't scrounge up a reliable voting bloc for much of their wacky ideology even among most other majority-white countries, let alone from the existing voluntary-immigrant population.

It's also worth noting that before about the 1990s, Latino immigrants from Central and South American, both documented and undocumented, were far more likely than they are now to support Republican positions and politicians. Latin American immigrants were widely considered a natural "fit" for conservative politics: overwhelmingly Christian (both Catholic and more recently large numbers of Pentecostals), hardworking and ambitious, gender-traditionalist, and so on. But racist and nativist hysteria in the Republican Party (coupled with a fair bit of residual anti-Catholic prejudice) resulted in the GOP shooting itself in the foot when it came to attracting them as voters.

The current Latino immigrant/Democrat alignment was by no means inevitable (and even now is far from universal). The Republican Party largely caused it by its own shortsighted bigotry. 94

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Oh, you’re just as terrible as me. Don’t fool yourself.

Oh, "both of us do it, too?" Fuck that, and fuck you for attempting the lamest defense in the world.


Also:

First year non-English speaking migrants overwhelmingly vote democrat. This is a statistical fact.

If they're voting, it means they're no longer migrants - it means they've become naturalized citizens. Do you object to how your fellow citizens vote? Fuck you again. 95

[bobot]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

Sigh. A new thread playground for trolls to frolic in and get the attention they desperately crave.

Hey, what would you expect from a thread called "Trump"? 96

[Try2B Comprehensive]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Ok, statistically, how do people from south of the border vote?

First year non-English speaking migrants overwhelmingly vote democrat. This is a statistical fact.

You may have good intentions (doubt it) but your politicians don’t, and they know exactly what they are doing.

If we accept this as true, the million dollar question is: what prevents the GOP from appealing to these voters and padding their own base with them? 97

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Annoyed

Brought to you by the same people that want to take your guns and instate red flag laws.

You mean like Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan? 98

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by Kimstu

Heh. You'd have a tough time finding "right wing" immigrants from most other countries who wouldn't be way left of the Republicans on a lot of issues.

Right-wingers in Poland, for example, would be shocked at the lack of publicly funded universal health care in the US, and they have far more restrictive laws on gun ownership than we do. You import a demographically significant number of Polish immigrants for "your side" and all it'll get you is faster "socialized medicine" and stricter gun control.

The US conservative movement couldn't scrounge up a reliable voting bloc for much of their wacky ideology even among most other majority-white countries, let alone from the existing voluntary-immigrant population.

It's also worth noting that before about the 1990s, Latino immigrants from Central and South American, both documented and undocumented, were far more likely than they are now to support Republican positions and politicians. Latin American immigrants were widely considered a natural "fit" for conservative politics: overwhelmingly Christian (both Catholic and more recently large numbers of Pentecostals), hardworking and ambitious, gender-traditionalist, and so on. But racist and nativist hysteria in the Republican Party (coupled with a fair bit of residual anti-Catholic prejudice) resulted in the GOP shooting itself in the foot when it came to attracting them as voters.

The current Latino immigrant/Democrat alignment was by no means inevitable (and even now is far from universal). The Republican Party largely caused it by its own shortsighted bigotry.

QFT

As a Hispanic I have to report that there was a time when I was considering to vote for McCain, but the Republican party decided to follow the "lead" of California and win for a while with a message of hate as it was in the 80s, never mind that eventually that was a big factor that turned California into one of the bluest of states.



Turns out that most Hispanics who are citizens are not amused. 99

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Well, you do have a lot more guns than you actually need...

I know I do. If anyone wants to buy one of several AR-15s, an AR-180, M1 Carbine, you know where to reach me. 100