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  #451  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:40 AM
filmstar-en filmstar-en is offline
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Depends in whether they have a working majority. The past few governments have been characterised by slim majorities and that require alliances to pass legislation comfortably and deal with the threat of internal rebellion.

The lesson that a powerful political mandate can arise from a Referendum will not be lost on future politicians who might be tempted to use this device.

That worries me.

A law that deals with the terms on which any Referendum should be called seems wise. At the moment it is a political device at the discretion of the government and the consequence of this has led to divided country. There should at least be a requirement for super majority.

By the time Brexit is concluded a significant percentage of the voters will be push up daisies, leaving youngsters who were too young to vote at the time to pay for the mess that has been left. This hardly seems fair and it is in contrast to the terms of the Scottish Independence Referendum that allowed voting at 16. This also differed from the terms of that other Referendum we had on PR. These inconsistencies should be dealt with before another government decides to go down the Referendum path and decides that political expediency can be best served by throwing the dice of woefully uniformed public opinion.

We are in an awful mess because of this Referendum. The major political parties are both split and so is the country. It has solved nothing and heaped a whole host of troubles upon ourselves that is going to perplex the country for many years to come.

  #452  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:18 AM
Stanislaus Stanislaus is offline
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Fucking hell, though, what a total shitshow. This is shaming.

I've got to the stage where I honestly don't care about Brexit qua Brexit any more. I mean, I'd prefer to remain in the EU, sure, but I would absolutely be OK with an orderly, well-managed Brexit under pretty much any terms. What I struggle with with is the bottomless idiocy, mendacity, cowardice, indecision and general fuckwit-level incompetence being exhibited by the people who have fought to put themselves in charge of the process.

Today's latest comedy of fuckups is emblematic. We've known for weeks that May wasn't going to get this vote passed. Nevertheless she has been adamant that the vote would be held, because this deal was the best deal on offer and there was no renegotiation to be had. That's fine, if that's your strategy. But what happens? We get to the day before and while her spokesman is in front of the press telling them the vote is definitely going ahead and we won't renegotiate, she is in Cabinet informing her colleagues/rivals/blood enemies that she is about to postpone the vote so she can fly to Brussels and renegotiate.

And what is it she's renegotiating? Not much, she just wants a time limit on the backstop. The if all else fails, come what may, written in stone guarantee that there will never be a hard ROI/NI border. It's not a fucking phone warranty. If it's time-limited, it's not a backstop, it's a just a transition period. The point is not to ever transition to a hard border. There is simply no way the EU will agree to a time limit, because that would mean ROI agreeing to a time limit, and they won't.

Either May is so ill-informed she doesn't know this, or she's so desperate she's ignoring it. But it's utterly fucking shambolic. It's a national disgrace that we're in this position, it's genuinely just embarrassing. And this is just today. There is no prospect of British politics becoming any less a festival of fuckwittery next week, next month, next year. When does it end? Seriously, when will the incompetence ever end?
  #453  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:09 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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May buys herself a little time... but to any good end? At least now she can actually read the EU court's decision, I guess: https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/10/uk/br...ntl/index.html
  #454  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:26 PM
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The events of today have been very interesting. Arriving in London on the train from the terrible Continent, we are here for the week now, and one of the colleagues when we hear of the decision on delaying the vote, he joked to the British counter-party that by the time we pay for our hotel, it may be obtaining a 20% discount (relative to our euros)... the poor British, he just put his face in his hands.

Last edited by Ramira; 12-10-2018 at 12:26 PM.
  #455  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:37 PM
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May is now going back to Brussels to renegotiate the backstop. What are her chances of succeeding?

Statements today:
Donald Tusk, the president of the European council: "We will not renegotiate the deal, including the backstop."

Spokesman for Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission: "Our position remains: we will not renegotiate the deal that is on the table right now and that was endorsed by the EU council on 25 November."

Michel Barnier, EU chief negotiator: "The backstop has to remain in place as an insurance."

Guy Verhofstadt, European parliament’s Brexit coordinator: "I can’t follow anymore. After two years of negotiations, the Tory government wants to delay the vote. Just keep in mind that we will never let the Irish down."

Leo Varadkar, Irish Taoiseach: “We ended up with the backstop with this withdrawal agreement because of all the red lines the UK laid down along the way. This is a withdrawal agreement which has the support of 28 member states. It’s not possible to open up any one aspect of this without opening up all aspects of the agreement."
The only possible outcome will be more delay with no meaningful changes, and May will be in an even worse position than before. I don't know what she's thinking. How much longer can parliament put up with this?
  #456  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:42 PM
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It was obvious for a while now that May wasn't going to get the 330+ votes she needed. It almost makes you wonder if a hard exit is the best they think they can do but want to shift the blame to the process.

The delay in even getting this far made another referendum impossible, but it is hard to tell it was due to intent or incompetence. I suppose assuming incompetence is the proper thing to do.

Last edited by rat avatar; 12-10-2018 at 01:45 PM.
  #457  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:53 PM
JimNightshade JimNightshade is offline
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What a glorious, glorious mess.

Rule Britannia! Rule the waves!
  #458  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:56 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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I haven't been following Brexit all that closely, but I see it's in the news again. Anyone have a place to find a good summary of what happened and what it means?
  #459  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:59 PM
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I'm unconvinced by these warnings about betrayal if Brexit doesn't get through. There's betrayal whatever happens. Hard Brexiters will want a no deal but won't get it, soft Brexiters will want unicorns and won't get it, and Remainers will just observe that the rest of the country now feels like they've felt for the past 2.5 years.

It's gonna be controversial come what may, but we can at least avoid economic chaos by just stopping the whole thing. I'm pretty sure most of the country will breathe a huge sigh of relief, even Brexiters.


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  #460  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:04 PM
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I haven't been following Brexit all that closely, but I see it's in the news again. Anyone have a place to find a good summary of what happened and what it means?
The best overview summery explanations I have found would be these videos for someone who doesn't know the various acronyms.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSM...OR2EgJA/videos

P.S. I had a typo above, 320 votes are needed.

Last edited by rat avatar; 12-10-2018 at 02:07 PM.
  #461  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:20 PM
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Anyone have a place to find a good summary of what happened and what it means?
Tim Shipman's All Out War: The Full Story of How Brexit Sank Britain’s Political Class and Fall Out: A Year of Political Mayhem (there's a third volume to be published early next year) are the best accounts of what happened. Shipman is the political editor of the Sunday Times - a conservative paper from the Murdoch stable but not a rabidly Brexiteer one - and he has really deep access, plus he's an entertaining writer to boot.

Honestly, I feel bad recommending two actual books, but there's been a lot of stuff going on, and anything short is just going to be surface gloss.

For a more legalistic take on things, there's David Allen Green's writing in the Financial Times and at his own blog Jack of Kent.

Last edited by Baron Greenback; 12-10-2018 at 02:20 PM.
  #462  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:58 PM
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I haven't been following Brexit all that closely, but I see it's in the news again. Anyone have a place to find a good summary of what happened and what it means?
The Washington Post's explainer.
  #463  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:22 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Thanks for those that provided suggested reading / viewing material.
  #464  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:56 PM
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I guess she is going to take it to the wire with this delay. Make a big show of making plans for No Deal with lots of very alarming leaks about the consequences. Hoping that the protests against the Withdrawal Agreement start to diminish as MPs realise that her WA is the lesser of two evils.

I am sure she will repeat endlessly that (driving the economy off the edge of a cliff) is the democratic will of the people expressed by the Brexit referendum and her government intends to honour that commitment because she regards it as in the national interest of the British people. Because, as you know, the most important thing is safeguarding the borders and keeping immigrant out unless they are very highly qualified indeed.

She repeats the same kind of dogged mantra in every interview.

Yup, we democratically voted to shoot our foot off.

The UK will, however, have won the sovereign right to hobble around in circles for decades to come safe within our borders.

It will be a Pyrrhic victory if it comes to pass.

I am wondering if the public mood will turn as we peer over the brink, because there is a simple solution to this madness.
  #465  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:14 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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I had forgotten that the Brexit deadline is fast approaching. Should be an exciting few months.
  #466  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:36 PM
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It's gonna be controversial come what may,

I see what you did there ...
  #467  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:25 PM
PastTense PastTense is offline
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I had forgotten that the Brexit deadline is fast approaching. Should be an exciting few months.
Why just an few months? It could be a few years.

Right now there is no majority in Parliament for:
May's Deal
Cancelling Brexit--remain in the EU
A Norway type deal
Crashing out with no deal
New General Election
New Brexit Referendum

With Parliament basically paralyzed it could end up the default crashing out with no deal--as that is what will happen if nothing is done to avoid it.

And that could cause years of problems.

Of course May's response is to kick the can down the road--but the road will come to an end March 29.

Last edited by PastTense; 12-10-2018 at 09:27 PM.
  #468  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:00 PM
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Brilliant video!

May as Gollum by Andy Serkis (Gollum in the LOTR movies)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NpExkViy6M
  #469  
Old Yesterday, 12:09 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Why just an few months? ...
Because of this:

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... the road will come to an end March 29.
But it seems you are right that it could be kicked farther down the road or lead to all sorts of interesting developments in later years.
  #470  
Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Yes, the road ends and we drive off the edge of the cliff at the end of March. What is yet to be determined is how fast we fall and how hard we hit the bottom.
  #471  
Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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If May were to request an extension from the EU (on her way out the door of Number 10, of course), on behalf of whatever government succeeds hers to help sort the mess, wouldn't it be pretty much definitely and gratefully granted?
  #472  
Old Yesterday, 10:17 AM
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From the outside, the brain-dead obvious solution is to hold a new election. I mean, sure, heads will explode, people will throw tantrums, May will be accused of being worse than Hitler, and she may even have to resign.

But she could hold a new election, with three options, ranked-choice:
1) Cancel Brexit.
2) Brexit with the deal we have.
3) No-deal Brexit.

And if she does that, and if she weathers the storm, I think she'd come out looking way better than she could with any other approach.

Is she just afraid of being called worse than Hitler?
  #473  
Old Yesterday, 10:48 AM
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A new election, or a new referendum? A new election will solve nothing.
  #474  
Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM
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A new election, or a new referendum? A new election will solve nothing.
Yeah, sorry, I meant "referendum," but brainfarted, and saw the mistake too late to edit.

Seriously, why isn't she calling for a new referendum? How could the backlash to doing so possibly be worse than what she's gonna go through if she doesn't?
  #475  
Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
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If May were to request an extension from the EU (on her way out the door of Number 10, of course), on behalf of whatever government succeeds hers to help sort the mess, wouldn't it be pretty much definitely and gratefully granted?
Why would you think that? Article 50 is clear. And more to the point, the EU has a very strong interest in NOT facilitating an exit from the EU. They want the other 27 nations to stay. The incredible mess that is Brexit is actually quite helpful in strengthening the rest of the EU. No Brexit would be acceptable, but so would a hard Brexit. Why should the rest of the EU prolong their experience of Brexit if they don't have to? And they don't have to: their position is solid.
  #476  
Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM
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Seriously, why isn't she calling for a new referendum? How could the backlash to doing so possibly be worse than what she's gonna go through if she doesn't?
- The result of a referendum would be unpredictable, especially with 3 options.
- What those options would be and how the ranking would work, would in itself be a major and contentious debate, with no generally acceptable outcome.
- The result might be close, and any result would be highly contentious.
- There's a good chance it would solve nothing, waste a lot of time, and make the situation even worse.

It's not going to happen.
  #477  
Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM
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How would it make the situation worse?
  #478  
Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
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Why would you think that? Article 50 is clear. And more to the point, the EU has a very strong interest in NOT facilitating an exit from the EU. They want the other 27 nations to stay. The incredible mess that is Brexit is actually quite helpful in strengthening the rest of the EU. No Brexit would be acceptable, but so would a hard Brexit. Why should the rest of the EU prolong their experience of Brexit if they don't have to? And they don't have to: their position is solid.
They've already indicated that they are willing to prolong the article 50 period.

For the EU, the ideal outcome would be the UK changing its mind and returning as a full member on the same terms as before. The worst outcome would be a no-deal Brexit, because it would impact the EU as well - not as much as the UK obviously, but it would still be harmful to the EU.
  #479  
Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM
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How would it make the situation worse?
I explained in that post how it would make the situation worse. It would solve nothing and waste a lot of time. And there isn't a lot of time to waste.
  #480  
Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
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How would it make the situation worse?
Someone could say "Jehovah"?
  #481  
Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM
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I explained in that post how it would make the situation worse. It would solve nothing and waste a lot of time. And there isn't a lot of time to waste.
Not solving anything doesn't make it worse; nothing is currently solved. Wasting time only makes it worse if that time could better be spent doing something else. And I see no other thing that could be done that would plausibly make the situation better.
  #482  
Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Someone could say "Jehovah"?
Now, I have this whistle....
  #483  
Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM
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What would be the process to cancel Brexit? Can May do it unilaterally? With her Cabinet? Or would it require approval by Parliament.
  #484  
Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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What do the polls say about a repeat referendum? Is the split still about 50/50, or would Remain win this time?
  #485  
Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-leave-backers
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The research by Britain Thinks found a significant decrease in the strongest supporters of Brexit and an increase in the most pro-remain voices.
  #486  
Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
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What would be the process to cancel Brexit? Can May do it unilaterally? With her Cabinet? Or would it require approval by Parliament.
It would require approval by Parliament. If May continues wasting time ineffectually, it may come down to a choice between no-deal and no-brexit. In which case, perhaps there will be enough sanity left to choose no-brexit.
  #487  
Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
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Were May able to hone down the choices on the table to be no-deal and no-Brexit, I'd argue that she actually hasn't wasted time ineffectually.

The soft option was what poisoned the water.
  #488  
Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM
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Just do a hard Brexit. I predict that the second it's a done deal, the EU will immediately shft in tone and start working constructively on trade and immigration agreements with Britain. All the scare stories, threats, and predictions of disaster are hardball politics.

One reason why the EU might not soften on Britain after: if they think that a consequence-free Brexit will embolden other countries to leave the EU as well. But if that's the case, it just illustrates how weak and damaged the EU really is, and therefore even a fair bit of short-term pain is worth getting clear of that impending train wreck.

The EU was always a bad idea. Free trade and economic cooperation: yes. A single currency? No. Heavy regulation powers located in Brussels and unnacountable to voters in individual states? A recipe for disaster. Completely open borders between all states? Madness. The rise of a new nationalism in EU countries is a reflection of the problems inherent in trying to govern people of widely varying cultures and economies from a central government.
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Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM
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I predict that the second it's a done deal, the EU will immediately shft in tone and start working constructively on trade and immigration agreements with Britain.
That wouldn't be a shift in tone, that would be continuing what they've been doing since the withdrawal under Article 50 was submitted.

As for the rest of your post, I share some of your misgivings about the EU, but I also think this country will be far better off inside it than out, and have far more say about the direction of the union from within.
  #490  
Old Yesterday, 04:31 PM
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A consequence-free Brexit? That exists? If it does, so do unicorns.

The idea that a hard Brexit is in any way desirable is so ludicrous it doesn't deserve more than a cursory glance.
  #491  
Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
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Just do a hard Brexit. I predict that the second it's a done deal, the EU will immediately shft in tone and start working constructively on trade and immigration agreements with Britain. All the scare stories, threats, and predictions of disaster are hardball politics.
No, they're evidence-based reality. The EU doesn't want hard Brexit, but it -rightly - doesn't feel terrible inclined to indulge Britain's self-entitled special snowflakeness.

Quote:
One reason why the EU might not soften on Britain after: if they think that a consequence-free Brexit will embolden other countries to leave the EU as well. But if that's the case, it just illustrates how weak and damaged the EU really is, and therefore even a fair bit of short-term pain is worth getting clear of that impending train wreck.
A consequence-free Brexit? That exists? If it does, so do unicorns.

The idea that a hard Brexit is in any way desirable is so ludicrous it doesn't deserve more than a cursory glance.

Quote:
The EU was always a bad idea.
The EU is deeply flawed but it's one of the best ideas to come out of the Twentieth Century.

Quote:
Free trade and economic cooperation: yes. A single currency? No. Heavy regulation powers located in Brussels and unnacountable to voters in individual states? A recipe for disaster. Completely open borders between all states? Madness. The rise of a new nationalism in EU countries is a reflection of the problems inherent in trying to govern people of widely varying cultures and economies from a central government.
The fact you call it heavy regulation, unaccountable, and with uncontrolled borders indicates you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
  #492  
Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
Stanislaus Stanislaus is offline
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Just do a hard Brexit. I predict that the second it's a done deal, the EU will immediately shft in tone and start working constructively on trade and immigration agreements with Britain.
Even if this prediction comes true, hard Brexit will still be disastrous. Leaving the customs union and single market without any kind of negotiated transition period or compromises would bring up major barriers to trade instantly. The sudden imposition of customs checks, tariffs, regulatory compliance etc. etc. would be poison to businesses. The UK government is making plans to both ration medicine and airlift it in if hard Brexit comes to pass, because that's the scale of disruption to trade.

This would of course only be temporary - until such time as the new trade and immigration agreements you predict come into play. Based on past performance, that means something like the best part of a decade. It's cavalier in the extreme to call for hard Brexit in the expectation that major, comprehensive trade and immigration and customs deals will be summoned into being.

As to your other points about the madness of the EU, you will find it difficult to construct a union that has free trade and economic co-operation but doesn't have some degree of centralised regulation, or that can open borders to the provision of services but not to labour.
  #493  
Old Yesterday, 05:09 PM
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Just do a hard Brexit.
As from the rest of the comment, says the person coming to this assertion by the hard ideological political position, it is the a priori conclusion from the political ideology.

Quote:
I predict that the second it's a done deal, the EU will immediately shft in tone and start working constructively on trade and immigration agreements with Britain. All the scare stories, threats, and predictions of disaster are hardball politics.
This was the claim of the very hard core Brexiters since the day one. Except there is this detail of the supply chains of the goods in particular. And the capital flows. And that no, in fact despite the two years of these predictions, in fact there is no political magic wand except the membership that makes the goods controles get hand waived away and outside of hte world of the ideoligcal political, the real world logistics make this not

the continental EU supply chains for the industry, they will be hurt. The UK will be gutted. this is the logistics physical reality, and why my colleagues who have the focus on the investment capital are so very busy moving it to other destinations.

but maybe we are like in the years of predictions about the great success in the Iraq, it was entertaining to read in a way.

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But if that's the case, it just illustrates how weak and damaged the EU really is, and therefore even a fair bit of short-term pain is worth getting clear of that impending train wreck.
so the American civil war (yes I remember you are a canadian) was the illustration of how weak and damaged the USA was? that is a silly assertion without logic.

No confederation union body can be set in a fashion where jumping in and out and forcing the ad hoc arrangements for one member over the others can work - even the Swiss in their arrangement found this after some conflict.

If it is the sign of "weak and damaged" - it is then all things human organization.

Quote:
The EU was always a bad idea.
it was always an idea that a certain kind of hard right fringe in the anglo-saxon world has detested. And has always said is a bad idea.

and has been predicting to fail and collapse now, I think it is the 50 years. Well eventually the ever returning prediction will come true, nothing lasts forever.

Quote:
Free trade and economic cooperation: yes.
It would seem by the following comments this is merely an easy slogan without the regard to or maybe the understanding of the actual structures and the actual economic requirements of the successful large free trade areas for the optimal return.

Quote:
A single currency? No.
Are you going to go back to your 2009-2010 predications of our imminent failure and collapse? It is part of your Big Government Failing prediction cycle I believe, no?

(the Euro expansion is a problematic and a difficult subject, the ideal currency zone is not there but there are the economic exchange advantages... defending the euro conception is not something I like, but the single currency is not also some complot and not without economic value.)

Quote:
Heavy regulation powers located in Brussels and unnacountable to voters in individual states? A recipe for disaster.
It is a pity Soviet Europe run by Commissar Bruxelles, she is costantly failing.... I think there is a kind of a BD series about this. Maybe it can be made into a movie, like that strange american one I saw (until changed) on a plane about the north koreans invading the americans?

Quote:
Completely open borders between all states? Madness.
my god... the slogans crash into the free trade economics.... It is economics and Free Trade - the effeciency of the free trade area among the members states, as the very example of the United States demonstrates, is very much dependent on the adjustment mechanisms which allow the labor mobility for allowing some degree of the rebalancing in the demand and also the efficiency in the exchanges.

This is the real free market economics and Free trade policy (without the hard right fringe nationalism infecting it in strange ways to pick and choose).

A customs free goods market without the free labor exchange is almost never sustainable in an integrated fashion and has enormous efficiency losses.

Quote:
The rise of a new nationalism in EU countries is a reflection of the problems inherent in trying to govern people of widely varying cultures and economies from a central government.
this is fringe (north) American right wing ideology speaking, not informed well by an operational understanding of the EU - it is more of the nature of the people who write about no go zones in the european cities.
the standards harmonizations and the standards and rules setting for the economic and shared systems values is an efficiency gaining - the United States is here the example. Widely varying cultures - it is Europe. ...

Of course expansion, it was done too far and too fast for the East in the post-Communist enthusiasm, but the populist reactions, it is silly and simplistic attribution.

unloved Bruxelles, it is not attractive to defend the Bruxelles fonctionnaires who are very tedious and boring, but it is also a stupid thing to buy into the easy and silly stereotypes which politicians use for bouc emmissaires to distract from the fact of their own decisions in the local government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislaus View Post

As to your other points about the madness of the EU, you will find it difficult to construct a union that has free trade and economic co-operation but doesn't have some degree of centralised regulation, or that can open borders to the provision of services but not to labour.
indeed in fact it is impossible. And in fact the idea runs against the very free markets concepts supposedly he is for with Free Trade. but it is from the north american Libertarian perspective so... not really the economics as the actual trade economists will look at it

Last edited by Ramira; Yesterday at 05:11 PM.
  #494  
Old Yesterday, 05:11 PM
Stanislaus Stanislaus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Yeah, sorry, I meant "referendum," but brainfarted, and saw the mistake too late to edit.

Seriously, why isn't she calling for a new referendum? How could the backlash to doing so possibly be worse than what she's gonna go through if she doesn't?
May is still clinging to the idea that she can get a Brexit-with-deal through Parliament, if necessary by forcing it down to the wire. She postponed the vote on the deal precisely so that she could keep it in play. IF she can do this, she will have delivered Brexit (in some form) just as the referendum demanded. Perversely, this would probably be seen by the majority of people as some kind of triumph -she had a damn hard job to do, she didn't give up, and she managed to scrape over the line in the end. We can only presume that she views this outcome as worth holding out for, and better than turning to a referendum to break the deadlock in Parliament.

A referendum, in truth, isn't a great option. The practicalities of organising it are immense (look what happened when we half-arsed the last one) and we would almost certainly have to ask the EU for an extension to the March 29th deadline which would generate yet another mini-crisis for everyone to get excited about. Even then, there is no guarantee that people would return a clear answer. Some polls now suggest that Remain would win, others that May's deal would edge it. If you made it a three-way question (remain, deal, hard Brexit) it would be possible for Remain to win a plurality but for the majority to go to the combined Leave options. While that would actually make sense (the two leave options being very different) it would look awful and lead to a stab-in-the-back narrative.

But there is a personality aspect to this as well. May has, for better or worse, a very strong sense of public duty. She was a Remainer, after all, but she now sees it as her responsibility to deliver Brexit - a moral duty that she owes it to the people to fulfill. Compared to Cameron, who fucked off rather than deal with the shitheap he'd created, this is in some ways an admirable attitude. In other ways, it leads to a terrible inflexibility which, in a crisis like this, does not help.
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