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  #951  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptMurdock View Post
I wonder if this was a trial balloon. Now Mitch has to worry that these 30 senators might actually grow a spine, and wonder if convincing Trump to resign now might be [strikethrough]the only way he keeps his Majority Leader position[/strikethrough] in the best interests of the legacy of Donald J. Trump.

(Dammit, how do you do strikethrough on SDMB?)
Like this.

Use 'del' instead of 'strikethrough'.
  #952  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:30 PM
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Pretty sure that this is somewhere in the top 5 rules of the GOP Handbook.

And if we are fair, the Democratic handbook too. Which IMO is as it should be. Fortunately, we have better voters.
  #953  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
I wonder what the odds are of Trump jetting off to Russia, Saudi Arabia or Israel.

My money would be on Saudi Arabia. The princes there have opulent palaces with gold fixtures (and other crap in god-awful taste), so Trump would fit right in.

I'm sure a Saudi prince would love to have a US President as a pet. He could invite folks over to look at Trump in his apartment, through the one-way glass.
That's what I think, too. And he won't announce it until he is safely ensconced. He'll slink off in the dead of night like the slithering, slimy sneak he is, leaving everyone else to clean up the mess.

No way he resigns. As someone else upthread (apologies for not recalling who) pointed out, there will be pardon-proof state arrest warrants awaiting him even if Pence decides to sacrifice his entire political future (such as it is) and pardon him for the federal crimes.
  #954  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:39 PM
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I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that the NRA leadership is made up of scumbags and traitors.
The report just confirms what was pretty obvious from their political fundraising and connections to Russian individuals. The Kremlin hacked the political system financially and organically. It's important to expose groups like the NRA for the traitors they are.
  #955  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:41 PM
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I think he’d have a hard time leaving Frump Tower behind, and it is located in a blue state. Maybe he would be willing to give it up as long as he got a new place that was just as gaudy.
  #956  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
See him as a cult leader. What does a cult leader have to gain by stepping down from the cult? Shame? A loss of power? Loneliness? Much better to be martyred and keep the love of the cultists.

The cultists might eventually abandon the cult leader, but doing so has a huge cost, as long as the cult is coherent: anyone who leaves will face the fury and shunning of those who don't. Even if you want to leave, it's real hard to be the first.
Invite them all over for a party and make some drinks.
  #957  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:05 PM
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Invite them all over for a party and make some drinks.
I’ll just ask Trump who posted this thing I’m quoting, and then tell him no take backs.
  #958  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:13 PM
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How about this for an interesting scenario?

Impeachment goes to the Senate and gets 60 votes to remove. 65% of the public says Trump should resign “for the good of the country”. 53% of Republican voters say they would rather have Pence or someone else on the ballot next fall. Opinion begins to be divided on talk radio and Fox News, but Trump loyalists fiercely denounce the “Vichy Republicans” in their ranks.

What does Trump do in this scenario? What do Pence* and McConnell do?

*I also wonder what Pence’s political advisors are telling him to do right now.
  #959  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:25 PM
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How about this for an interesting scenario?

Impeachment goes to the Senate and gets 60 votes to remove. 65% of the public says Trump should resign “for the good of the country”. 53% of Republican voters say they would rather have Pence or someone else on the ballot next fall. Opinion begins to be divided on talk radio and Fox News, but Trump loyalists fiercely denounce the “Vichy Republicans” in their ranks.

What does Trump do in this scenario? What do Pence* and McConnell do?

*I also wonder what Pence’s political advisors are telling him to do right now.
60 votes = acquittal = "Total Exoneration! The Witch Hunt is Over!"

It's hard to imagine this happening. 10 GOP Senators aren't going to risk their necks unless they know there are 7 more going that way. Mitch will make sure his troops either vote party line acquittal, or he'll tell at least 17 (the ones in the safest seats) to vote to remove, depending on what his finger in the wind tells him.
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I'm not expecting any surprises.

Last edited by Akaj; 09-27-2019 at 04:26 PM.
  #960  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:34 PM
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And yes, Slacker, I calling out all of us... you included... to up our influence game! Damn right I am! Put your Senators and reps into your phones contact list, and call those motherfuckers! 1 call? In 6 days? Has nothing happened since?
It's good advice for folks to barrage their congressperson with phone calls and emails. But my congressperson is Nancy Pelosi. She doesn't need any nudging from her constituents. who am I supposed to call? Some random representative in Kansas or Virginia? Congresspeople don't give much credence to messages from people outside their district, do they?

Last edited by I Love Me, Vol. I; 09-27-2019 at 04:39 PM.
  #961  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:40 PM
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My Congressmonkey is a hardline Tea-Partier who is retiring after this term. He already has me down as a nut-ball leftist based on my previous communications with his office. I doubt he'll be much help here.
  #962  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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Naw, don't call others. But call Nancy @ times and tell her team you support the fight. It's just the polite thing to do.
  #963  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:01 PM
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?House Foreign Affairs Chairman Eliot Engel of New York, Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff of California, and Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings of Maryland wrote a letter demanding Pompeo turn over documents related to Trump's July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
“The subpoenaed documents shall be part of the impeachment inquiry and shared among the Committees," they wrote, setting a deadline of Oct. 4 for Pompeo to produce the documents. "Your failure or refusal to comply with the subpoena shall constitute evidence of obstruction of the House’s impeachment inquiry."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...andal-n1059791
  #964  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:02 PM
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Software won't allow edit.
The ? at the beginning should be a "
  #965  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:09 PM
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1. Under no circumstances will Trump resign
2. Unless there is an absolutely unequivocal smoking gun (and I never cease to be amazed at what the Republicans are willing to consider equivocal) the Republicans will absolutely not defect because Trump's base won't defect.
  #966  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:10 PM
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No way he resigns. As someone else upthread (apologies for not recalling who) pointed out, there will be pardon-proof state arrest warrants awaiting him even if Pence decides to sacrifice his entire political future (such as it is) and pardon him for the federal crimes.
I agree there's no way he resigns, and for those same reasons, it's very dangerous for him to even hold the 2020 elections. I also don't see him running away either.

What keeps me up at night is... and I've said it elsewhere... whatever Trump's other shortcomings, the man is a wizard at corrupting people (and/or identifying corrupt allies). When I look at how McConnell, Barr, Graham have all fallen in line to lick his boots, when I look at the conservative-packed SCOTUS, if I am Trump then I am thinking there must be a way to mobilize his toadies to delay, disrupt, or invalidate the 2020 election.

More than half my predictions fall flat, but here's another one - should Trump lose, we'll be litigating the outcome of the 2020 election well into the spring of 2021. I hope I'm wrong (on the shorter side, not the longer).
  #967  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:21 PM
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Now Trump is meeting with the NRA to try to deal with his legal problems over impeachment. I wonder how that will work out for him.
  #968  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:27 PM
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For a so-called rich dude, he sure begs for financial help a lot.
  #969  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:29 PM
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Now Trump is meeting with the NRA to try to deal with his legal problems over impeachment. I wonder how that will work out for him.
Oh. Well, the NRA is definitely flush with cash and not embroiled in chaotic mismanagement scandals, so this is indeed a very canny move.
  #970  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:42 PM
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... in return for the support, Mr. LaPierre asked that the White House “stop the games” over gun control legislation ..
.

NRA ain't afraid of no Quid Pro Fucking Quo.
  #971  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:14 PM
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OMFG

  #972  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:25 PM
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Oh, by the way… did y'all see this yet?

For Ukraine help, Giuliani turned to unlikely Florida fixers
Quote:
When President Donald Trump wanted Ukrainian authorities to investigate his Democratic rival Joe Biden, Rudy Giuliani turned to a pair of Soviet-born business partners from Florida who made more than a half-million dollars in political donations to Republicans while facing lawsuits from disgruntled investors over unpaid debts.

Documents show Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman used wire transfers from a company they controlled to make a $325,000 donation to a Trump-allied political action committee in 2018. That was on top of $100,000 in earlier donations to Trump and GOP candidates that helped the relatively unknown entrepreneurs quickly gain access to the highest levels of the Republican Party — including face-to-face meetings with the president at the White House and Mar-a-Lago.
The article details the donations and when they were made. It then details some of the meetings they had with Giuliani, Don Jr. and then-Prosecutor General Yuri Lutsenko.

And then it mentions this:
Quote:
Campaign finance watchdogs first raised concerns about the source of the $325,000 donation to America First Action, a political action committee supporting Trump’s re-election, shortly after it was first disclosed last year.

The May 2018, donation, among the largest the committee received that quarter, was reported to have been made by Global Energy Producers LCC. Other campaign finance disclosures list Parnas as the CEO of the company and Fruman as president.

But there is little public evidence that Global Energy Producers was ever a thriving enterprise that could generate the income to account for its outsized political giving. The company has no listed office address or phone number, no announced deals or contracts, and a bare bones one-page website that features only a countdown clock that long ago ticked down to zeros.

Details of the source of the funds only emerged earlier this year as part of a long-running, unrelated lawsuit involving the estate of a Navy veteran from New York who accused Parnas of defrauding him out of nearly half a million dollars in loans and investments in a Hollywood movie project that turned out to be a mirage.
Then there is more about the lawsuit.

Sure sounds like Trump took laundered Russian money. And then sought help from those same people. Just like he's doing with the NRA right now, too. I mean, we all know the NRA is laundering Russian money, right? That hasn't escaped anyone's notice, has it?
  #973  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
I wonder what the odds are of Trump jetting off to Russia, Saudi Arabia or Israel.
Yeah, no ... Israel has an independent judiciary and an extradition agreement with the United States. Even if Netanyahu is still in power when Trump arrives, there is nothing he can do to keep him here.
  #974  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:43 PM
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Congressman Mark Amodei (R - NV) is the first Republican to support impeachment inquiry.

Note: Amodei won his seat in 2018 by 16.4 points (58.2% to 41.8%).
  #975  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:48 PM
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To avoid confusion...

Justin Amash (I - MI) already supported the impeachment inquiry. He was a Republican a couple months ago but left the party in July 2019.
  #976  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:49 PM
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Looks like Giuliani is prepared to refuse to testify:

Quote:
"I consider them a joke. A sad joke. They have no legitimacy. I would think of challenging their subpoena on the grounds that they're not a legitimate committee," Giuliani said.
Question; Can Giuliani reasonably claim that he is acting as Trump's personal lawyer when he does work that has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump business?

Prediction: Giuliani will go to jail. Whether or not Trump throws him under the bus - he's going to spend some quality prison time in the not too distant future.
  #977  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:52 PM
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Congresspeople don't give much credence to messages from people outside their district, do they?
I don't think they do. I don't know what happens with phone calls, but for online messages, they ask for your address/zip code, presumably to determine if you're in their district.
  #978  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:54 PM
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Congressman Mark Amodei (R - NV) is the first Republican to support impeachment inquiry.

Note: Amodei won his seat in 2018 by 16.4 points (58.2% to 41.8%).
That's absolutely enormous news, IMO. Just amazing that this happened so fast. Will he be the first of many? Stay tuned!
  #979  
Old 09-27-2019, 06:58 PM
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That's absolutely enormous news, IMO. Just amazing that this happened so fast. Will he be the first of many? Stay tuned!
Keep in mind that he supports letting the impeachment process play out. He has not said that would vote to impeach.

Reporter: Can you envision a scenario where you would support impeachment?
Amodei: Well if there were facts that support it, of course I would.
  #980  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:00 PM
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Hey gang! Long time no see. The last few days have driven back to the forum to lurk and learn.

I was hoping someone could help outline some details of how impeachment works for a dumb-dumb like me.

For example:

-Is the official impeachment underway? Or does the "impeachment inquiry" eventually result in a floor vote for ACTUAL impeachment?

-Are subpoenas under an impeachment inquiry more enforceable than all the gobs of subpoenas the GOP have laughed at and ignored so far?

I saw that Dems in charge are "considering" enacting a "long-dormant rule allowing them to jail or fine people who disobey subpoenas." Is the ability to jail uncooperative witnesses NOT inherent? I thought at some point the Sergeant at Arms would bring out that Mace of Liberty and start smacking heads at some point. When's that going to happen?

-What is to stop anyone (such as Pompeo) to simply not comply? What recourse is there?

-What happens if this is a belly-flop? Will Dems have hamstrung or invalidated any future investigations if this all turns out to be not entirely impeachable?

-Will they have the ability to subpoena the classified servers?

-Can Trump and Co just consider everything the Dems ask for as "privileged" or "classified?"

I see they are already playing the "it was on the classified server because we classified it." What's to stop them from classifying everything and shield it from investigation? (I keep hearing Trump has ultimate say-so over what's classified or not after he unilaterally "declassified" his satellite twit-pic).

I'm sorry to be so ignorant but I was very young when Clinton was impeached, so I am not familiar with the ins and outs of all this. I'm particularly confused because of the discrepancies between Reps yelling "if you want to impeach, put it to a floor vote" vs an impeachment inquiry vs an "official" impeachment inquiry.

Thanks all. Good to be back.
  #981  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:01 PM
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And now for a brief jocularity break. I haven't stopped laughing for five minutes: Slide-Whistleblower Complaint Reveals Trump's Pants Around Ankles.
  #982  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:01 PM
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Keep in mind that he supports letting the impeachment process play out. He has not said that would vote to impeach.

Reporter: Can you envision a scenario where you would support impeachment?
Amodei: Well if there were facts that support it, of course I would.
Just taking it seriously is huge. If just a third or so of Republicans in Congress take this seriously, Trump is totally screwed.
  #983  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:07 PM
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That's absolutely enormous news, IMO. Just amazing that this happened so fast. Will he be the first of many? Stay tuned!
He is a congressman, not a senator, if we can get some gOP senators- that would be absolutely enormous news.
  #984  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:09 PM
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He is a congressman, not a senator, if we can get some gOP senators- that would be absolutely enormous news.
Still big, IMO. The first sign that some Republicans might actually feel a twinge of duty calling. Or possibly, which would be an even more positive sign politically speaking, a feeling that Trump is politically doomed and they better get out in front on the right side.
  #985  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:32 PM
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The NYT is reporting that Trump met with Wayne LaPierre today. Subject: financial assistance from the NRA for the upcoming impeachment defense.

Also, State Department Special Envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, has resigned. He is called out in the whistleblowers complaint - and was subpoenaed today.
  #986  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:36 PM
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. . . Or possibly, which would be an even more positive sign politically speaking, a feeling that Trump is politically doomed and they better get out in front on the right side.
I think you are being awfully optimistic.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:47 PM
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-Is the official impeachment underway? Or does the "impeachment inquiry" eventually result in a floor vote for ACTUAL impeachment?
Asking if impeachment is underway is kind of like asking if a criminal indictment is underway. Impeachment and indictments are the end result of a particular process. The House is holding hearings and gathering facts, and at some point it seems likely that articles of impeachment will be drafted. These are the specific “charges” of wrongdoing against the President. Then the House votes on them - if they pass by a majority vote, then the matter goes onto the Senate for a trial.

Quote:
-Are subpoenas under an impeachment inquiry more enforceable than all the gobs of subpoenas the GOP have laughed at and ignored so far?

I saw that Dems in charge are "considering" enacting a "long-dormant rule allowing them to jail or fine people who disobey subpoenas." Is the ability to jail uncooperative witnesses NOT inherent? I thought at some point the Sergeant at Arms would bring out that Mace of Liberty and start smacking heads at some point. When's that going to happen?

-What is to stop anyone (such as Pompeo) to simply not comply? What recourse is there?
In US v Nixon, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that a President can not hide behind executive privilege when it comes to criminal matters. So it seems likely that if the House demands information that seems relevant to their inquiry, the courts will back them up.

But also remember that this is a political process, not a legal one. If subpoenas are conspicuously ignored, members of the House or Senate are free to conclude that they will vote for impeachment and removal on the basis of the coverup, rather than voting against on the basis of not having the right amount of evidence.

Quote:
-What happens if this is a belly-flop? Will Dems have hamstrung or invalidated any future investigations if this all turns out to be not entirely impeachable?
Pelosi resisted moving to impeachment on the Russia related stuff because of these concerns. But nobody can tell the future.

Quote:
-Will they have the ability to subpoena the classified servers?
We’ll see, but my gut feeling is that if they craft a precise subpoena (like, “we want the transcripts of all the phone calls” rather than “give us everything on the servers!”) I think the subpoena would be pretty powerful. But even then, it probably goes to the courts.

Quote:
-Can Trump and Co just consider everything the Dems ask for as "privileged" or "classified?"
See above on US v Nixon and this being a political process.

Quote:
I see they are already playing the "it was on the classified server because we classified it." What's to stop them from classifying everything and shield it from investigation?
The executive order under which information is classified specifically prohibits classification of matters to cover up crimes or embarrassing information. Now, courts typically give the President a lot of leeway on national security matters, but I have a hard time seeing that courts would have a definition of “national security” that is explicitly contradicted by executive order.
  #988  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:59 PM
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Giuliani cancels paid appearance next week at Kremlin-backed conference (from WAPO so may be paywalled)

A few excerpts show the depth and stupidity of the Don & Rudy show:
Quote:
Giuliani, who confirmed to The Washington Post on Friday morning that he would attend the event, reversed himself that evening after The Post reported on his participation in the meeting, which Russian President Vladimir Putin and other top Russian officials are expected to attend
Quote:
According to an agenda for the event posted online, Giuliani was set to participate in a panel led by Sergey Glazyev, a longtime Putin adviser who has been under U.S. sanctions since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine five years ago.

Giuliani said Friday evening that he was no longer planning to attend the meeting. “I didn’t know Putin was going,” he said in a brief interview, adding in a text: “Discretion is the better part of valor.”

Giuliani’s decision to take part in the conference astounded national security experts. His appearance would have come days after the release of a whistleblower complaint accusing Trump and Giuliani of pressuring Ukrainian officials for damaging information about Democrats.
Emphasis added for naked lying.

I fear that evidence of so much criminality is emerging so quickly that people will soon lose track of the depth and enormity of it all. Frankly, I am thinking of his base.
  #989  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:03 PM
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I think you are being awfully optimistic.
I have no expectations, only hopes. Things will probably go shitty. But I'm hopeful they'll go right.
  #990  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:14 PM
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Trump's State Department envoy to the Ukraine and named in the whistleblower report, Volker, resigns.

Sorry, was already posted above...

But, on edit, I'll add that apparently Trump's calls to Putin and Prince Mohammed have been similarly squirreled away for some unknown reason that I can't fathom.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 09-27-2019 at 08:18 PM.
  #991  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:43 PM
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I have no expectations, only hopes. Things will probably go shitty. But I'm hopeful they'll go right.
Yeah, maybe. And there may be some hope on the horizon . . .

. . . I just read an interesting article making a good case that FOX may soon change its tune and dump Trump. That would go a LONG way to softening Senate (and House) Republicans' stance against impeachment or at least lessening their support of Trump.

Paul Ryan (who despises Trump now) has been recently appointed to the FOX board and Murdoch's son is now at the helm. Presumably, as the article points out, he's aware that the median age of FOX viewers is 65 and so, as a business, FOX better find a way to remain viable and enduring.
  #992  
Old 09-27-2019, 08:50 PM
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Paul Ryan (who despises Trump now) has been recently appointed to the FOX board and Murdoch's son is now at the helm.
Ryan has always hated Trump. He just had to work with him to advance his immediate political agenda. Now that he is no longer an active player, Ryan is free to let his hatred out.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:56 PM
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Trump's State Department envoy to the Ukraine and named in the whistleblower report, Volker, resigns.

Sorry, was already posted above...

But, on edit, I'll add that apparently Trump's calls to Putin and Prince Mohammed have been similarly squirreled away for some unknown reason that I can't fathom.
And apparently among those remarks were Trump informing the Russians that their election interference was just fine.

This is according to 3-4 former officials. The damn is breaking because people see this ship is sinking and they want to pretend that they were on the right side of it.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 09-27-2019 at 08:59 PM.
  #994  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:00 PM
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The sniping between Fox News personalities has already begun. This is quite bad for the Trump loyalists, because their whole position is deeply undercut when even the Fox News viewership does not get a consistent pro-Trump message: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/b...core-ios-share
  #995  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
The damn is breaking because people see this ship is sinking and they want to pretend that they were on the right side of it.
https://youtu.be/t9OVqdz5mVg?t=206
  #996  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:06 PM
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Giuliani in prison is not going to go well.

All the people he put in jail are so old now that they won’t be able to manage erections. And the sight of his flabby bare ass is not gonna be a big turn-on.
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  #997  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Oh, my gawd. There's just no bottom, is there?

Trump: "Please, please give me money to defend against my attackers!!"

LaPierre: "We might be able to work something out. We need a favor, though..."
  #998  
Old 09-27-2019, 09:07 PM
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I was thinking Aldo Raine style carving "MAGA" on their foreheads.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:14 PM
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Maybe more like Charles Manson.

He was a cult leader, too.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
Giuliani in prison is not going to go well.

All the people he put in jail are so old now that they won’t be able to manage erections. And the sight of his flabby bare ass is not gonna be a big turn-on.
Prison rape being called off due to the limitations of aging isn't as hilarious as you think. Next time, just make that your personal masturbation fantasy rather than share it with us?
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