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  #351  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:15 PM
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"Five days? But I'm angry NOW!" -Homer Simpson
"I'd shoot you if I had my gun."

"Yeah, well, you don't."
  #352  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:08 AM
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As I mentioned earlier, you seem to think that posting these links serves some sort of purpose other than flagging your inability to understand the point of this thread. A less clueless person, assuming they weren't actively trolling, would go start a different thread about successful constructive instances of gun usage rather than shitting up this one, because that would actively contribute to the quality of the board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McxB75FOFOw
  #353  
Old 02-10-2013, 03:48 PM
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Here's the weekly update to GunFail on DailyKos (GunFail IV). 60 new incidents this week.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...81/-GunFAIL-IV
  #354  
Old 02-10-2013, 03:54 PM
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In the "But I Thought It Was Unloaded" Department, we have Red Sox pitching prospect, er, perhaps former prospect, Bryce Brentz.
  #355  
Old 02-10-2013, 06:21 PM
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I have to be more careful.
  #356  
Old 02-10-2013, 06:47 PM
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Ah, you are trolling. I shall leave you to it.
  #357  
Old 02-10-2013, 06:52 PM
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Here's the weekly update to GunFail on DailyKos (GunFail IV). 60 new incidents this week.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...81/-GunFAIL-IV
What amazes me is how many people carry their (semi-)automatic pistols cocked and with one in the chamber, as if an emergency will not give them time to rack the slide. In an unscientific survey of people who would be considered "responsible" gun owners the number is nearly all of them.
  #358  
Old 02-10-2013, 06:58 PM
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What amazes me is how many people carry their (semi-)automatic pistols cocked and with one in the chamber, as if an emergency will not give them time to rack the slide. In an unscientific survey of people who would be considered "responsible" gun owners the number is nearly all of them.
Couldn't open that link for work, but there is a certain argument for that... with 300-400 million guns out there, if even 10% of the owners were irresponsible gun owners, we would have MILLIONS of people firing their weapons by accident, and you'd think that'd make some news.
  #359  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:11 PM
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What amazes me is how many people carry their (semi-)automatic pistols cocked and with one in the chamber, as if an emergency will not give them time to rack the slide. In an unscientific survey of people who would be considered "responsible" gun owners the number is nearly all of them.
Are you suggesting it's irresponsible to carry exactly like the police do?
  #360  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:12 PM
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Here's the weekly update to GunFail on DailyKos (GunFail IV). 60 new incidents this week.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...81/-GunFAIL-IV
How many of those accidents are with "assault weapons" that the President intends to ban?
  #361  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:26 PM
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How many of those accidents are with "assault weapons" that the President intends to ban?
Which weapons would those be, exactly?
  #362  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:29 PM
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What amazes me is how many people carry their (semi-)automatic pistols cocked and with one in the chamber, as if an emergency will not give them time to rack the slide.
Probably because there's a very good chance that an emergency won't allow enough time to rack the slide. Which is why pretty much everyone (including the police) who carries a semiautomatic pistol carries it with a round in the chamber and cocked (often with the safety on, if the gun has a frame-mounted safety, which not all pistols do). If the safety's on, it can be flicked off by the person's thumb as he/she draws the weapon from the holster, so it doesn't cause any delay in firing.

How does carrying a pistol in that fashion differ in any way from carrying a revolver? Due to their design, revolvers always "have one in the chamber," and they don't have safeties, either.

Last edited by artemis; 02-10-2013 at 08:30 PM.
  #363  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:46 PM
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Which weapons would those be, exactly?
These ones:

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...2-ac8ca4359119
  #364  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:02 PM
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Huh. That site says "Feinstein" at the top. Where's the "Obama" list?
  #365  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:34 PM
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Huh. That site says "Feinstein" at the top. Where's the "Obama" list?
Are you just playing dumb?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/comme...4#.URhYllqLynY
  #366  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:36 PM
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Probably because there's a very good chance that an emergency won't allow enough time to rack the slide. Which is why pretty much everyone (including the police) who carries a semiautomatic pistol carries it with a round in the chamber and cocked...
First, and it's such a stupidly OBVIOUS answer that I don't know why I have to say it, a cop is in the business of, and trained for, looking for and dealing with trouble A non-cop is neither and is extremely unlikely to encounter such an incident accidentally. Anyway, a good shooter takes a moment to assess the situation before blasting away at anything that moves, time that can also be used to rack the slide and assume a position that allows him proper control of his weapon before aiming and firing. Life, even for a cop, is not a quick draw competition.
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How does carrying a pistol in that fashion differ in any way from carrying a revolver? Due to their design, revolvers always "have one in the chamber," and they don't have safeties, either.
The old way was to leave the chamber under the hammer empty. With modern, double-action revolvers they say it's not needed, so I suppose you should leave the next cylinder empty, slowing you down when Frank Miller is at the other end of the street at High Noon. Revolvers are cool, but not toys. My own father was one of those idiots who put a hole in the wall because he didn't check if his Police Special was really not loaded before he started to clean it. It's stupid simple to check, but complacency and decades of experience can get you to drop your guard.
  #367  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:40 PM
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Feinstein's reintroduced that bill every year since the last ban expired. Obama may be trying to throw some weight behind it, but it's tainted goods; that dog won't hunt. He's going to have to come up with a separate list of his own, based off of the research done under the "23 things he'd like to get done" that he announced a few weeks ago. I thought he had done that, and released his own list, so I was wondering how it was going to differ from Feinstein's.
  #368  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:42 PM
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Are you suggesting it's irresponsible to carry exactly like the police do?
Duh. Read that list of stupid accidental woundings and killings in just the past couple weeks. You'll find a number of cops.

ETA: And this is my last reply to you. I don't want this thread to turn into another Kable Show.

Last edited by dropzone; 02-10-2013 at 09:44 PM.
  #369  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:45 PM
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Duh. Read that list of stupid accidental woundings and killings in just the past couple weeks. You'll find a number of cops.
I don't doubt that. Most guns are designed to be carried with chambers loaded. They are safe that way if you follow your basic gun safety rules.
  #370  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:47 PM
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ETA: And this is my last reply to you. I don't want this thread to turn into another Kable Show.
If I didn't understand firearms very well, I wouldn't want to respond to me either.
  #371  
Old 02-10-2013, 10:23 PM
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If I didn't understand firearms very well, I wouldn't want to respond to me either.
It is your dazzling expertise that makes it difficult to engage with you. In your mind anyway.

In reality, it's that the entirety of your argument is "cuz Hitler" and here's three videos of women with pistols. You're simply simple, and tiresome, and have nothing remotely intelligent or interesting to add to everyone else's discussion.

But keep telling yourself about the expertise bit. You're the one who has to live with you.
  #372  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:36 PM
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In reality, it's that the entirety of your argument is "cuz Hitler" and here's three videos of women with pistols. You're simply simple, and tiresome, and have nothing remotely intelligent or interesting to add to everyone else's discussion.
Only 3? You don't count very well, do you? You were saying something about being simple? Anyway here's another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2C...wgZ6g&index=39
  #373  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:49 PM
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What amazes me is how many people carry their (semi-)automatic pistols cocked and with one in the chamber, as if an emergency will not give them time to rack the slide. In an unscientific survey of people who would be considered "responsible" gun owners the number is nearly all of them.
Um, yeah, nothing at all surprising about this. It's how most semiauto pistols are designed to be carried. Hundreds of thousands of police and non-police civilians carry in this way every day without incident -- and if you think your average beat cop is safer with a gun than your average CCWer, you've never been to the range on police training day. I have, and it can be scary. In any case, if a person is so stupid that they'll draw a gun, disengage the safety, and pull the trigger when they don't mean to, then they're too stupid to be carrying a gun at all, and with or without a round in the chamber, they're a walking time bomb.
  #374  
Old 02-11-2013, 02:14 AM
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Well, we know you aren't playing dumb. BTW, that's an article from February 2009 you linked to.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-11-2013 at 02:15 AM.
  #375  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:37 AM
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Well, we know you aren't playing dumb. BTW, that's an article from February 2009 you linked to.
Not that it matters but here is a newer one for you...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politi...uns/index.html

and...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=-ExC7fE1LaY
  #376  
Old 02-11-2013, 12:57 PM
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I voted for Obama twice and I think Obama is stupid on guns. I don't think he's trying to follow in the footsteps of Mao or Pol Pot but I do think he is being stupid on guns.

I'm not a single issue voter but his position on assault weapons is pushing me further away from him.
  #377  
Old 02-11-2013, 01:12 PM
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First, and it's such a stupidly OBVIOUS answer that I don't know why I have to say it, a cop is in the business of, and trained for, looking for and dealing with trouble A non-cop is neither and is extremely unlikely to encounter such an incident accidentally.
And yet it happens. anyone who's carrying (cop or civilian) is by definitely preparing for a more-or-less unlikely situation.

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Anyway, a good shooter takes a moment to assess the situation before blasting away at anything that moves, time that can also be used to rack the slide and assume a position that allows him proper control of his weapon before aiming and firing.
And if your would-be shooter has time to do all that, he almost certainly has time to move away from the situation, negating the need to fire at all. True self-defense with a handgun usually IS a quick-draw situation, as the most such shootings occur at a range of seven feet or less.
  #378  
Old 02-11-2013, 07:36 PM
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Anyway, a good shooter takes a moment to assess the situation before blasting away at anything that moves, time that can also be used to rack the slide and assume a position that allows him proper control of his weapon before aiming and firing. Life, even for a cop, is not a quick draw competition.
Does it look like this store clerk had time to A) take a moment to assess the situation, B) rack the slide and C) assume a position?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOmt...t=HL1360628122

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The old way was to leave the chamber under the hammer empty.
That's because if you dropped an older gun on the hammer it might go off. Most modern day guns have firing pin blocks, or other means to prevent such. It had nothing to do with disabling the first shot, rather it disabled only the last shot in a revolver.

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With modern, double-action revolvers they say it's not needed, so I suppose you should leave the next cylinder empty, slowing you down when Frank Miller is at the other end of the street at High Noon.
Suppose? Have you read this in some book of gun safety, a handgun manual, or are you just making this up as you go along.

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My own father was one of those idiots who put a hole in the wall because he didn't check if his Police Special was really not loaded before he started to clean it. It's stupid simple to check, but complacency and decades of experience can get you to drop your guard.
I hope your father at least had his gun pointed in a safe direction when it went off. There is some redundancy in the safety rules so if you break one, it's generally not life threatening, break 2 or more and things can go bad real fast, but as they say, complacency kills.
  #379  
Old 02-11-2013, 08:33 PM
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I'm pretty complacent and I've never killed anybody.

Complacency doesn't kill people, people kill people.

Maybe I should lock my complacency up in a complacency safe. Wouldn't want my kids finding it by accident.
  #380  
Old 02-11-2013, 11:48 PM
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And yet it happens. anyone who's carrying (cop or civilian) is by definitely preparing for a more-or-less unlikely situation.
And my point is that the more-or-less unlikely situation is FAR less likely for a civilian than for a cop, so vanishingly small for most individuals as to make carrying a handgun no more than an added weight so you burn more calories.
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True self-defense with a handgun usually IS a quick-draw situation
My firearm safety teacher would barf at thinking like that, but you don't need any classes, I guess, because you are Quick Draw McGraw, or his aft end. Cops don't do quick draws, or they shouldn't. They assess the situation first. Even for the gunfighters of the Old West aiming was a more effective survival strategy than drawing quickly. It needn't take long because you should already be aware of your surroundings. Which, as you suggested, often means you are NOT IN the situation. How the fuck do you think those of us who do not carry manage to live long lives? Two things: Violent things are unlikely to happen to most people and those of us who are unable to avoid bad neighborhoods and such go through them with our eyes wide open to potential danger so we can go the other way.

As for carrying a gun cocked and loaded, read Hentor's link and count how many of those accidents could have been avoided if those guns did not have one in the chamber.
  #381  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:20 AM
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And my point is that the more-or-less unlikely situation is FAR less likely for a civilian than for a cop, so vanishingly small for most individuals as to make carrying a handgun no more than an added weight so you burn more calories. My firearm safety teacher would barf at thinking like that...
Which firearm safety class teaches you to keep your carry gun chamber empty? Which one taught you to keep the second cylinder of your revolver empty?

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Cops don't do quick draws, or they shouldn't.
Which is it?

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As for carrying a gun cocked and loaded, read Hentor's link and count how many of those accidents could have been avoided if those guns did not have one in the chamber.
It would have been great if they just followed basic firearm safety rules like treating every firearm as if it were loaded, never pointing the muzzle at anything they weren't willing to destroy, keeping their finger off the trigger until they were ready to shoot, being sure of their target and beyond, etc. I hope your firearm safety teacher taught you that.
  #382  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:26 AM
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As for carrying a gun cocked and loaded, read Hentor's link and count how many of those accidents could have been avoided if those guns did not have one in the chamber.
This is faulty reasoning. People conscious and thoughtful enough to make the decision (and perform the attendant diligence) to keep a round out of the chamber at all times are not the people who point guns at themselves and pull the trigger, during cleaning or maintenance or at any other time. Contrariwise, for a person who is capable of knowing and controlling the state of their firearm, condition one is not dangerous.

Your concern seems to address the intersection of the set of people so dumb they'll point a loaded gun at themselves or another person and pull the trigger (and remember, a gun is always loaded; that's rule #1) and the set of people who can be trusted to maintain a firearm in a safe condition -- in other words, the empty set.
  #383  
Old 02-12-2013, 06:17 AM
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Your concern seems to address the intersection of the set of people so dumb they'll point a loaded gun at themselves or another person and pull the trigger (and remember, a gun is always loaded; that's rule #1) and the set of people who can be trusted to maintain a firearm in a safe condition -- in other words, the empty set.
No, the set of people who can be trusted with a firearm is every US citizen (with limited exception).

That overlaps significantly with the subset of people who will do really stupid stuff.
  #384  
Old 02-12-2013, 06:21 AM
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I voted for Obama twice and I think Obama is stupid on guns. I don't think he's trying to follow in the footsteps of Mao or Pol Pot but I do think he is being stupid on guns.

I'm not a single issue voter but his position on assault weapons is pushing me further away from him.
I must be the exact opposite of you.

I'm Australian, and I utterly despised John Howard when he was our Prime Minister. Absolutely loathed him.

The only time I ever had any respect for that asshole was when his government banned semi-automatic weapons after the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre, in which 35 people were killed and 23 injured by an insane prick using an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

We haven't had a mass shooting in Australia since, unless you include the La Trobe University handgun shooting.

Howard even had the balls to stand up in front of a crowd of angry Queensland gun-owners wearing a bullet proof vest and tell them that if they wanted to go hunting then they could bloody well do it with weapons that aren't as lethal to humans.

There comes a time when people with a particular hobby need to accept that their hobby does more harm than good.
  #385  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:13 AM
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We haven't had a mass shooting in Australia since, unless you include the La Trobe University handgun shooting.
"Subsequently, a study by McPhedran and Baker compared the incidence of mass shootings in Australian and New Zealand. Data were standardised to a rate per 100,000 people, to control for differences in population size between the countries and mass shootings before and after 1996/1997 were compared between countries. That study found that in the period 1980–1996, both countries experienced mass shootings. The rate did not differ significantly between countries. However since 1996/1997, neither country has experienced a mass shooting event despite the continued availability of semi-automatic longarms in New Zealand. The authors conclude that “the hypothesis that Australia’s prohibition of certain types of firearms explains the absence of mass shootings in that country since 1996 does not appear to be supported… if civilian access to certain types of firearms explained the occurrence of mass shootings in Australia (and conversely, if prohibiting such firearms explains the absence of mass shootings), then New Zealand (a country that still allows the ownership of such firearms) would have continued to experience mass shooting events.”[41]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...ralia#Research
  #386  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:44 AM
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Molesworth, is this true?

"Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women."

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
  #387  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:51 AM
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My firearm safety teacher would barf at thinking like that
Not if he's heard of the Tueller Drill.

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but you don't need any classes, I guess, because you are Quick Draw McGraw, or his aft end. Cops don't do quick draws, or they shouldn't.
I've clearly taken more classes in armed self-defense than you have. My draw speed's about average, around 1.5 seconds. And cops damned well DO occasionally do quick draws; they have to, if they're unexpectedly attacked.

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Two things: Violent things are unlikely to happen to most people and those of us who are unable to avoid bad neighborhoods and such go through them with our eyes wide open to potential danger so we can go the other way.
I agree situational awareness (and it's close cousin, actually listening to your gut) is the single most important self-defense strategy. But it's not foolproof, and of course there can be times when you are unable to retreat even if you want to.

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As for carrying a gun cocked and loaded, read Hentor's link and count how many of those accidents could have been avoided if those guns did not have one in the chamber.
There's no point in carrying a weapon that's not in firing condition. You might as well carry a paperweight.

Last edited by artemis; 02-12-2013 at 08:53 AM.
  #388  
Old 02-12-2013, 04:12 PM
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There's no point in carrying a weapon that's not in firing condition. You might as well carry a paperweight.
My edc (glock) doesn't have a round chambered. I think the chances of an accidental discharge are almost zero but they do occur and they occur most frequently when there is a round in the chamber. It takes half a second to cock my glock and I think the tradeoff is worth it.

I used to carry a revolver and I carried it with a full cylinder ,so I don't have a philosophical problem with carrying cocked and locked but I think its a tradeoff.

Its so fast and easy to cock my glock that I just leave it unchambered. I may regret it one day but in the meantime I am a lot more comfortable carrying my glock unchambered and in the end the best edc is the one you actually carry every day.

The stupidest thing I ever saw was a guy at a defensinve shooting class where one guy carried a cocked and locked single action in an ankle holster as his edc. The time you save by carrying cocked and locked is eclipsed by the extra time it takes to get your gun out of an ankle holster. How much time does it take to pull the hammer anyways?
  #389  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:23 PM
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Which firearm safety class teaches you to keep your carry gun chamber empty? Which one taught you to keep the second cylinder of your revolver empty?
None. I came up with that as I tried to imagine a way to carry or store a loaded double-action revolver safely, since I don't trust any lockout of anything, including firing pins, completely. I concluded there wasn't one, at least if there is any chance a child or an idiot can gain access to it. Kids will find a way and being an idiot is not a bar to gun ownership or possession.
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It would have been great if they just followed basic firearm safety rules like treating every firearm as if it were loaded, never pointing the muzzle at anything they weren't willing to destroy, keeping their finger off the trigger until they were ready to shoot, being sure of their target and beyond, etc. I hope your firearm safety teacher taught you that.
Sure did, but if the people in that list had any training at all they didn't take it to heart.
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This is faulty reasoning. People conscious and thoughtful enough to make the decision (and perform the attendant diligence) to keep a round out of the chamber at all times are not the people who point guns at themselves and pull the trigger, during cleaning or maintenance or at any other time.
We agree that police officers are highly trained and should be among the people who will practice firearm safety the most diligently. Now count the cops in Hentor's link. These are a couple of my favorites:
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14. HATFIELD TOWNSHIP, PA, 2/05/13: An Upper Gwynedd police sergeant shot himself in the foot using the Hatfield Township Police Department range on County Line Road Tuesday. Hatfield police said that about 10:44 a.m. Tuesday Sgt. Stephen Gillen, a 23-year veteran of the Upper Gwynedd department was undergoing an annual firearms training exercise when his gun fired as he pulled it from its holster. The bullet struck Gillen in the left foot, police said. At the time, Gillen was with two certified police firearms range instructors.

15. CHILHOWIE, VA, 2/05/13: Saltville Police Officer Brian Morris, 25, was injured Tuesday morning when he fell at home while carrying his department handgun and accidentally shot himself in the arm. The accident happened just after Officer Morris got home from his shift, around 5:45 a.m., said Saltville Police Chief Rob Hall. “He was moving from one place to another in his home. He stumbled and fell,” said Hall. “He was carrying his weapon at the time.” “Officer Morris is a military veteran. He served in Iraq,” said Hall. “He was involved in explosive situations, you could say, and in the privacy of his own home he injured himself with his own weapon. It just points out that things can happen anywhere at anytime to anybody. When it comes to firearms, you can take nothing for granted.”
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:14 PM
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We agree that police officers are highly trained and should be among the people who will practice firearm safety the most diligently.
Based on my experience, I am not sure that I would agree. But that's neither here nor there. The first anecdote should read "he pulled the trigger," not "his gun fired." Considering he was at the range and doing a training exercise, he was probably doing draw-and-fire drills -- in other words, exactly a "quick-draw" scenario. This kind of drill is inherently dangerous because of the emphasis on getting the gun on target and pulling the trigger as soon as possible. Would the incident have been prevented by an empty chamber? Yes -- but that would defeat the entire purpose of the drill.

The circumstances of the second incident are puzzling, but gross negligence is probably implicated. Why would Officer Morris be carrying a gun through his home, in his hand, safety off, with his finger on the trigger, unless he were responding to a home intruder?
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:32 PM
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My edc (glock) doesn't have a round chambered. I think the chances of an accidental discharge are almost zero but they do occur and they occur most frequently when there is a round in the chamber. It takes half a second to cock my glock and I think the tradeoff is worth it.

I used to carry a revolver and I carried it with a full cylinder ,so I don't have a philosophical problem with carrying cocked and locked but I think its a tradeoff.

Its so fast and easy to cock my glock that I just leave it unchambered. I may regret it one day but in the meantime I am a lot more comfortable carrying my glock unchambered and in the end the best edc is the one you actually carry every
Glocks make me nervous for just that reason. I prefer a pistol with a frame safety, which can be carried "cocked and locked" with minimal chances of a slip up happening. I figure if I incorporate flipping the safety off as part of the act of drawing the firearm, it will be a set habit and in an emergency I won't be at risk of forgetting to flip the safety off.

The Tueller drill, in conjunction with the knowledge that the average self-defense shooting happens at a distance of seven feet or less, is very sobering. Most people have no idea just how fast you have to be in a true self-defense situation. Fortunately, the odds favor us never needing to find out how quickly we can deploy our weapons for real!
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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Considering he was at the range and doing a training exercise, he was probably doing draw-and-fire drills -- in other words, exactly a "quick-draw" scenario. This kind of drill is inherently dangerous because of the emphasis on getting the gun on target and pulling the trigger as soon as possible.
It's so dangerous that I actually bought a matched set of pistols and fitted one of them with a barrel blocker specifically so I cold practice rapid draw-and-fire drills (and dry-firing) with no risk. Hearing a premature "click" is much preferable to hearing a premature "BANG!"

But during my CCW range test, I had to do it for real. If a person can't safely do it for real, that person isn't ready to be carrying. Which is why regular practice (mostly with a dummy gun, but occasionally for real) is so important!
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:30 PM
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Based on my experience, I am not sure that I would agree.
Well, yeah. I could never understand why someone who has an opportunity for unlimited range time and ammo paid for by the city wouldn't take advantage of it, but I can't understand how Russell Brand grew tired of sleeping with Katy Perry, either.

Because I'm one of those people who should stay away from all firearms (Say thank you, Kable. ) I get my fix with BB guns. I might like one that fits my hand as well as my Marksman 1010, but as I've had 50 years to get used to it....
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:50 PM
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I get my fix with BB guns. I might like one that fits my hand as well as my Marksman 1010, but as I've had 50 years to get used to it....
I wanted to shoot darts from those when I was a kid, but I never got any.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:12 PM
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The darts were hard to find, expensive when you found them, and the fletching got nasty after a single use. They're fun guns, though, and all you need is a cereal box filled with bunched-up newspapers for a target and backstop.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:11 AM
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Glocks make me nervous for just that reason. I prefer a pistol with a frame safety, which can be carried "cocked and locked" with minimal chances of a slip up happening. I figure if I incorporate flipping the safety off as part of the act of drawing the firearm, it will be a set habit and in an emergency I won't be at risk of forgetting to flip the safety off.

The Tueller drill, in conjunction with the knowledge that the average self-defense shooting happens at a distance of seven feet or less, is very sobering. Most people have no idea just how fast you have to be in a true self-defense situation. Fortunately, the odds favor us never needing to find out how quickly we can deploy our weapons for real!
You can build a thumb safety into a glock. I've seen them built into the slide. My most important safety is between my ears. I'm mostly concerned about accidental discharge, I remember when I bought my first Serpa holster and my finger ended up in the trigger guard on the draw, shit can happen and racking the slide is not likely to happen accidentally.

If the reaction time necessary for defense situations is really that tight then a lot of CCW are wasting their time and effort. I doubt most CCWs could get their gun reliably and safely into firing position in under 2 seconds, I don't think I could and I go to the range at least a couple of times a month (twice a week if I have the time).
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:11 AM
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This has become stupid trivial gun news of the day.

It is funny to think about people spending time practicing their quick draw with their "edc."

As Stuart Hamm said, "If you're scared, stay home."
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:29 AM
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None. I came up with that as I tried to imagine a way to carry or store a loaded double-action revolver safely, since I don't trust any lockout of anything, including firing pins, completely.
What makes a DA revolver considered relatively safe, even though it is without an external safety is a relatively long and heavy trigger. With the firing pin blocks it's not going off if you drop it. The stock Glock trigger is also long and heavy, though not quite as much of either as a DA revolver. What makes any gun safe, regardless of the trigger is not to cover yourself with with the muzzle (EVER) and keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot (ALWAYS). Not sure what you are getting at here, unless you think revolvers should be outlawed, most gun grabbers don't like to admit that.

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I concluded there wasn't one, at least if there is any chance a child or an idiot can gain access to it. Kids will find a way and being an idiot is not a bar to gun ownership or possession.Sure did, but if the people in that list had any training at all they didn't take it to heart. We agree that police officers are highly trained and should be among the people who will practice firearm safety the most diligently.
No gun is idiot proof, children can be trained to practice gun safety, and if you're guns are kept in a safe, kid's are not going to get access. I don't agree that the average police officers is highly trained. I shoot with a lot of cops, some are highly skilled but the average are not. FWIW the only self inflicted wound I have witnessed was by a cop. He holstered his weapon with his finger still in the trigger guard, breaking 2 safety rules.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:43 AM
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I'm mostly concerned about accidental discharge, I remember when I bought my first Serpa holster and my finger ended up in the trigger guard on the draw, shit can happen and racking the slide is not likely to happen accidentally.
If you use a Serpa holster, then I would recommend keeping your chamber empty. Your experience is not that uncommon. See point 1:

http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/LinkCl...I%3D&tabid=679

The safety of said holster is something shooters debate back and forth but I think having your trigger finger press a button in close to the same position as where it would pull the trigger does seem to promote putting your finger on the trigger early and unsafely as you draw your gun out of the holster, exactly as you experienced. Maybe try a Safariland holster.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:45 AM
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It is funny to think about people spending time practicing their quick draw with their "edc."

As Stuart Hamm said, "If you're scared, stay home."
Not sure what makes you think any of us is scared, rather prepared. As for me, when I had to use my firearm to defend my life, I was in my home.
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