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  #101  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:49 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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I think, maybe, it's just a lot easier to write this sort of stuff than to write shows with actually-surprising character interactions and plot developments. (Keeping it limited to network and basic cable, I'm thinking here of shows like Better Call Saul, The Americans, Justified, and Fargo.)
My first reaction is that the cable shows you cite only put out a dozen or so episodes per season, while network shows churn out twice that.

But googling didn't reveal a definitive episode count, and IMDb only lists 13, with the 13th airing Christmas Eve. Is that the season 1 finale, do we think, or just the mid-season finale? If the former, then yeah, no excuses.
  #102  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:09 PM
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My first reaction is that the cable shows you cite only put out a dozen or so episodes per season, while network shows churn out twice that.

But googling didn't reveal a definitive episode count, and IMDb only lists 13, with the 13th airing Christmas Eve. Is that the season 1 finale, do we think, or just the mid-season finale? If the former, then yeah, no excuses.
You're right about comparisons between the old network '23 episodes per season' and the newer '10 to 13 per season' shows being quite unfair. But as you suggest, this show appears to be following the '10-13' model.

I'm not sure any dramas are made at that old 'over 20 per year' rate anymore, come to think of it.

ETA--oops, shows like NCIS ARE made at the 22-or-so per-season rate.

It's almost as if 'shows never up for Emmy consideration' are 22-per-year, and 'shows that might win Emmy Awards' are 10 to 13.

Last edited by Sherrerd; 10-16-2018 at 09:12 PM.
  #103  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:30 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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It's almost as if 'shows never up for Emmy consideration' are 22-per-year, and 'shows that might win Emmy Awards' are 10 to 13.
The former is more easily referred to as "procedurals," which comprise the vast majority of network dramas.

One current non-procedural I could think of was This Is Us, but that appears to be an in-betweener with 18-episode seasons.
  #104  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:33 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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ETA--oops, shows like NCIS ARE made at the 22-or-so per-season rate.

It's almost as if 'shows never up for Emmy consideration' are 22-per-year, and 'shows that might win Emmy Awards' are 10 to 13.
NCIS doesnt care about Emmys, I am sure, since they are one of the highest in the Nielsen ratings year after year, bringing in boatloads of money.
  #105  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:25 PM
Rushgeekgirl Rushgeekgirl is offline
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It's cheezy but it's holding my interest. The whole goofy gray woman thing though... it was silly. And the detective woman? Terrible acting. I'm not picking on her appearance, she just makes these weird faces that take me out of scenes she's in. Like she's jutting out her chin and trying too hard to look like a tough cop. The wife of her brother annoys me too. She tries to make her eyes too damn big. Overacting, I guess that's what it was. Everyone on the show over-acts.
  #106  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:49 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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It's cheezy but it's holding my interest. The whole goofy gray woman thing though... it was silly. And the detective woman? Terrible acting. I'm not picking on her appearance, she just makes these weird faces that take me out of scenes she's in. Like she's jutting out her chin and trying too hard to look like a tough cop. The wife of her brother annoys me too. She tries to make her eyes too damn big. Overacting, I guess that's what it was. Everyone on the show over-acts.
Yeah, and no one knows how to lie. She shoudl have said, about the raid "I just had a hunch, and my last two hunches paid off, so...". But she already knows the "callings" arent exact. So "save him" could have been anyone. So, assuming it was the ATF guy was just stupid.
  #107  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:51 PM
Andy L Andy L is online now
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She tries to make her eyes too damn big.
The eyes were freaking me out a bit.

The angel reminded me of a cross between the Weeping Angels and the giftshop toys that gave advice in the late, lamented "Wonderfalls."
  #108  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:02 AM
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Anyone else think of the Weeping Angels from the Whoverse after last night's episode?

Yes. And I don't even watch Dr. Who.

I want to like this show. I really do. But I'm not buying it. I'll give it a few more episodes before I pack it in. I like Charming and his wife, but the rest of them need to step it up.
  #109  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:24 AM
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While I thought the stowaway twist was interesting, I think he would have been spotted (or worse) when he tried to run away when the plane landed. Also, I suspect that Leo is still alive. On TV, if you don't see the body, and sometimes even if you do...


At the end, when Michaela said, "What do you want?" to the angel, I said, "No, tell it to be more specific!"

And the Fed can just show pictures of the 828's to the nurse. There's going to be trouble.

Speaking of trouble, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet (and I bet it will happen soon) that there's going to be a big confrontation (more than Cal and that woman) between an 828 and one or more of them.
  #110  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:33 AM
Dendarii Dame Dendarii Dame is online now
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(Missed the edit window) Kind of awkward to be the insurance company exec having to write those letters, although with that much money involved, I can understand why.

Legal question: What if the insurance company paid off to a family member/spouse/partner/whatever who is now deceased. Would the now returned passenger be obliged to pay off the debt?

And wouldn't it be interesting if the 828's who returned to the plane were all insured by the same company?

Last edited by Dendarii Dame; 10-17-2018 at 09:33 AM.
  #111  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:41 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Isn't there a good faith issue with the life insurance? I mean, Ben WAS declared dead. He didn't fake his death, the plane disappeared for five years and everyone was presumed dead. I don't think there was any fraud on anyone's part. Does she still have to give back the money?

I thought she used the money to start her business, but it sounds like she let things slide while grieving and grabbed the life insurance payout as a lifeline to get caught up. Then, when she starting getting things back together, tapped into the house to start the catering business.

Last edited by ivylass; 10-17-2018 at 10:41 AM.
  #112  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:57 AM
Andy L Andy L is online now
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Isn't there a good faith issue with the life insurance? I mean, Ben WAS declared dead. He didn't fake his death, the plane disappeared for five years and everyone was presumed dead. I don't think there was any fraud on anyone's part. Does she still have to give back the money?
A smart insurance company would reason that way, and advertise the fact that they were dealing compassionately with those affected by this bizarre situation. ("Jane Doe just had her husband return mysteriously after 5 years. The last thing she needs is a bil from an insurance company. 'County Homestead' understands that; 'County Homestead' cares").
  #113  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:34 PM
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A smart insurance company would reason that way, and advertise the fact that they were dealing compassionately with those affected by this bizarre situation. ("Jane Doe just had her husband return mysteriously after 5 years. The last thing she needs is a bil from an insurance company. 'County Homestead' understands that; 'County Homestead' cares").
"We know a thing or two....."
  #114  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:52 PM
Andy L Andy L is online now
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"We know a thing or two....."
Because we've seen a few... people mysteriously disappear and reappear.
  #115  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:10 PM
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Wasn't there supposed to be a bombshell on this week's episode? What was it? I didn't see anything that I would call a bombshell.
  #116  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:24 PM
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You're right about comparisons between the old network '23 episodes per season' and the newer '10 to 13 per season' shows being quite unfair. But as you suggest, this show appears to be following the '10-13' model.
The old network rate was more like 26-34 episodes per season for an hour long drama and 39 (!) for half hour shows.
  #117  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:30 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Wasn't there supposed to be a bombshell on this week's episode? What was it? I didn't see anything that I would call a bombshell.
That a stowaway was on the plane is bombshell enough for me.

Yeah, things are getting weirder all the time, but maybe that's the whole idea.
  #118  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:31 PM
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Isn't there a good faith issue with the life insurance? I mean, Ben WAS declared dead. He didn't fake his death, the plane disappeared for five years and everyone was presumed dead. I don't think there was any fraud on anyone's part. Does she still have to give back the money?
I am not sure, I dont really think so. But there's nothing to stop the Insurance company from sending out letters ASKING for the money.
  #119  
Old 10-17-2018, 04:01 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Isn't there a good faith issue with the life insurance?
It's hard to apply real life logic to stories of the supernatural. It's unfortunate that the writers forced the issue by making it a plot point, and I hope they stop doing that.

I put the 828 life insurance payouts in exactly the same category as the question of what dental plan Santa's elves get at the north pole. The more the show examines that kind of thing the less interested I will be in watching.
  #120  
Old 10-17-2018, 06:33 PM
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The old network rate was more like 26-34 episodes per season for an hour long drama and 39 (!) for half hour shows.
Yeah, they really did grind them out in the old days. And as Ellis Dee pointed out, the dramas that still do 20 or more shows per season are (mostly) procedurals. Stand-alone episodic writing requires less planning and care than does a season-long narrative; with no 'story arc' to worry about, the producers can buy scripts from a large number of writers. (And as DrDeth pointed out, those shows can be wildly profitable for the networks.)

But we've come to expect high-quality writing and acting in our story-arc dramas. Will we get that from Manifest? Jury's still out, it seems.

Last edited by Sherrerd; 10-17-2018 at 06:34 PM.
  #121  
Old 10-23-2018, 11:10 PM
Andy L Andy L is online now
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This week's episode did some reasonably good work with the Olive and Danny story.

A grown man should be able to catch up with a 9-year old boy once they're out of the crowd, and it distracted me that Cal was able to stay so far ahead of his Dad (I have experience with that kind of situation) especially since Cal didn't seem to be running all out anyway (and how fast can a kid who has cancer and is getting treatment run, anyway).
  #122  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:54 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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Cal seemed completely healthy in this episode.
He seems to be at the center of this mystery. Does he know more than he's saying?

It's confusing that the preview shows him sick in the next episode. I hope they don't constantly use Cal to advance the story.

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-25-2018 at 06:57 PM.
  #123  
Old 10-26-2018, 02:03 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Did anyone else have flashbacks when Ben was chasing Cal around the subway?

WAAAAAAAAALLLT!!!!!
  #124  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:19 PM
WildBlueYonder WildBlueYonder is offline
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All I know is when I start really liking it, it will be canceled

I dont watch too many hour long shows, investing that much time each week and then it gets canceled, waste of time.

I stick to Sitcoms. Only wasting 30 minutes
  #125  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:33 PM
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Interesting episode. Cal lives or dies depending on the fate of a passenger in a medical experiment.

It seems a bit early to introduce such a powerful organization. Even Vance is in the dark. How can some former passengers take on a organization that the NSA doesn't know about?

I'm not sure where this is going or how these regular people can fight this group. I hope they keep it a little bit believable.

Last edited by aceplace57; 11-05-2018 at 11:35 PM.
  #126  
Old 11-06-2018, 12:41 AM
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What bugs me is the passengers have to avoid the NSA and this new group.

That seems like impossible odds to overcome.
  #127  
Old 11-06-2018, 11:17 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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The TV writing cracks me up sometimes.

The security guy confronts them: "This is a restricted area. Didn't you see the sign?" So now mentally rewind to the beginning of that scene:

[Not Shown] They drive past a "Restricted Area." sign.
[They pull up to a large building with a security checkpoint booth.]
"We've been at this for hours. How much longer are we going to do this?"

Gee, I dunno how much longer we're going to be at this. But we did just drive past a "Restricted Area" sign, and now we're at a farmhouse that inexplicably has a security booth and a boom gate. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say "not hours."
  #128  
Old 11-06-2018, 03:46 PM
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For most of the episode, I thought it was silly and that I probably wouldn't watch it any more, until the very end. At that point, I thought, "THIS could be a very interesting twist."

See ya next week.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 11-06-2018 at 03:46 PM.
  #129  
Old 11-06-2018, 05:38 PM
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My first reaction is that the cable shows you cite only put out a dozen or so episodes per season, while network shows churn out twice that.

But googling didn't reveal a definitive episode count, and IMDb only lists 13, with the 13th airing Christmas Eve. Is that the season 1 finale, do we think, or just the mid-season finale? If the former, then yeah, no excuses.
Typically network shows in their first season in the Fall will order something like 13 episodes, as an initial investment, and then if the ratings are good, they will order the final "back nine" or so to fill out the season. If not, a mid season replacement will take it's place. In very rare cases, if it was on the bubble but had loud fans, it may get some sort of wrap up. Which, I'm surprised isn't a standard deal, as I would think whatever it cost to make an extra episode or special to create closure would be more than made up by being able to sell a DVD set or stream which doesn't end abruptly.

Last edited by jackdavinci; 11-06-2018 at 05:38 PM.
  #130  
Old 11-07-2018, 03:52 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Typically network shows in their first season in the Fall will order something like 13 episodes, as an initial investment, and then if the ratings are good, they will order the final "back nine" or so to fill out the season. If not, a mid season replacement will take it's place. In very rare cases, if it was on the bubble but had loud fans, it may get some sort of wrap up. Which, I'm surprised isn't a standard deal, as I would think whatever it cost to make an extra episode or special to create closure would be more than made up by being able to sell a DVD set or stream which doesn't end abruptly.
Your reply reminds me that I read the network ordered 3 more episodes of Manifest for this season (which would be 16 total) and now looking on IMDb I see it lists 18 episodes.

No longer is it a 13-episode first season ending right before New Year's, but now will stretch well into 2019. This also means that they didn't have a coherent 13-episode story to tell for this first season; it's more of the same typical network show stuff where they continually throw stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

Reading that they ordered 3 more episodes and then seeing now on IMDb that they actually ordered 5 more episodes to get to 18 total has soured me on the show a bit. I feel like we'll already be into later-season Lost territory by February. "Okay guys, we need ideas for these episodes. I hear Matthew Fox has tattoos..."
  #131  
Old 11-07-2018, 06:11 AM
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I hope the ratings don't drop after The Voice ends in a few but weeks. That's an important lead in.
  #132  
Old 11-07-2018, 09:04 AM
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Wife: You came back from the dead on a magic time-traveling airplane. I'll believe anything you say.

Husband explains what's going on.

Wife: I don't believe you.


But what really bothers me about this show is that the magic airplane in question is a Boeing 737-200. That is a seriously old model; it was rolled out in 1967 and the last one delivered in 1988. As of July 2018 only 58 of this model were still in service; five years ago there weren't that many more.
  #133  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:16 AM
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Wife: You came back from the dead on a magic time-traveling airplane. I'll believe anything you say.

Husband explains what's going on.

Wife: I don't believe you.
Yes, that was annoying! That whole trope annoys me: Person A begs Person B to tell them what's going on, assuring Person B that they will believe them no matter how crazy they think they sound, and when Person B finally comes clean Person A is like "you're mad!" Every. Time.

Some of the acting started bugging me for the first time this episode: the folks playing Grace, Michaela, and Jared. Maybe it was just the writing. Or maybe the premise is starting to bug me a little.
  #134  
Old 11-07-2018, 12:48 PM
Dendarii Dame Dendarii Dame is online now
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But what really bothers me about this show is that the magic airplane in question is a Boeing 737-200. That is a seriously old model; it was rolled out in 1967 and the last one delivered in 1988. As of July 2018 only 58 of this model were still in service; five years ago there weren't that many more.
Then maybe the writers could do something smart like have a character wonder out loud if that could have been a factor.
  #135  
Old 11-07-2018, 12:58 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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But what really bothers me about this show is that the magic airplane in question is a Boeing 737-200. That is a seriously old model; it was rolled out in 1967 and the last one delivered in 1988. As of July 2018 only 58 of this model were still in service; five years ago there weren't that many more.
Could that have been a budget thing? There were a lot of shots of the plane on the tarmac. Maybe they pulled one out of an airplane junkyard or something?
  #136  
Old 11-07-2018, 02:44 PM
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Yes, that was annoying! That whole trope annoys me: Person A begs Person B to tell them what's going on, assuring Person B that they will believe them no matter how crazy they think they sound, and when Person B finally comes clean Person A is like "you're mad!" Every. Time.

Some of the acting started bugging me for the first time this episode: the folks playing Grace, Michaela, and Jared. Maybe it was just the writing. Or maybe the premise is starting to bug me a little.
Yeah, that was stupid.

Yeah the interplay between Grace & Ben, and Michaela & Jared is starting to get stupid.
  #137  
Old 11-07-2018, 07:12 PM
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Yes, that was annoying! That whole trope annoys me: Person A begs Person B to tell them what's going on, assuring Person B that they will believe them no matter how crazy they think they sound, and when Person B finally comes clean Person A is like "you're mad!" Every. Time.
...
AKA "fake conflict": the bane of dramatic writing.

I missed the last episode and am considering just looking for a site with a synopsis. I'm still interested in how the story will be resolved (IF it will be resolved) but am less patient with the so-so acting and lackluster writing.


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Could that have been a budget thing? There were a lot of shots of the plane on the tarmac. Maybe they pulled one out of an airplane junkyard or something?
I'd guess that's exactly it--the production is using an old plane because it was cheaper to rent (or buy).
  #138  
Old 11-07-2018, 09:47 PM
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I was under the impression that all shots of the plane were CGI; they certainly were when it was in the air. I didn't look too closely when the plane was on the ground, it bothered me so much. I was only reminded in the latest episode because they showed the model number on a news segment in the background. At least they got that part right.
  #139  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:23 AM
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I was pretty hyped up for this series after seeing previews all summer. In the beginning, I was all in, as of this week I decided I'm out. It's one of the shows that I DVR and when I saw it on my list of recordings last night, I felt like it was becoming homework for me. Like, "I HAVE to watch Manifest now". Not excited or interested anymore.
  #140  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:11 AM
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Yes, that was annoying! That whole trope annoys me: Person A begs Person B to tell them what's going on, assuring Person B that they will believe them no matter how crazy they think they sound, and when Person B finally comes clean Person A is like "you're mad!" Every. Time.
Especially given the circumstances of the show.

Wife: What you are saying is madness and is impossible.
Husband: Did you miss the part where I was gone for 5 1/2 years and haven't aged a day?
  #141  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:12 AM
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I totally agree that was stupid and poorly handled, but that type of thing can be good if done well.

My favorite bit of the first Independence Day was when the pilots are being recruited to fight aliens they can see in giant ships in the sky, and then Randy Quaid's character starts talking about being abducted and they all start rolling their eyes.
  #142  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:46 PM
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I really enjoyed this weeks episode. Glad to see Vance is shifting to the other side. The previews for next week look very interesting.

I am puzzled by the mind link lady. It's not clear yet if she's being duped or is a part of the experiments.

The show is getting a lot of attention. Ratings seem good. Hopefully it'll get a season 2.

Last edited by aceplace57; 11-12-2018 at 11:49 PM.
  #143  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:57 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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I just want to know where they went for 5 1/2 years, and why. Yeah, I know they're getting to that, but still........folds arms and taps foot......
  #144  
Old 11-13-2018, 12:21 AM
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This reviewer has a good guess. It's as good an explanation I've seen. It's towards the bottom of the article.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...amp/ncna935481

It'll take awhile to find out what happened on the plane. They want this show to go a few seasons.

Last edited by aceplace57; 11-13-2018 at 12:24 AM.
  #145  
Old 11-13-2018, 12:47 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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I also suspect that the apolitical nature of the show is because it was proposed many years ago, and rejected over and over again until NBC finally picked it up.
  #146  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:23 AM
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I'm about ready to bail on the show. Basically, I wanted an SFy show, so all the other 'features' that article talked about -- the cop show and doctor show and conspiracy show and family trauma show -- are things to suffer through while muttering 'get on with it.'
  #147  
Old 11-13-2018, 04:11 PM
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I'm about ready to bail on the show. Basically, I wanted an SFy show, so all the other 'features' that article talked about -- the cop show and doctor show and conspiracy show and family trauma show -- are things to suffer through while muttering 'get on with it.'
Yep. Especially the family drama show.
  #148  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:27 AM
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Monday night, they aired the last episode until January 7th, and it left multiple cliffhangers and plot twists. Among other things,
SPOILER:
Vance is dead.


Next year, maybe we'll find out more.
  #149  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:41 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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Oh man. Just when I started liking the character he gets killed off.


Last edited by aceplace57; 11-29-2018 at 12:42 AM.
  #150  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:43 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Oh man. Just when I started liking the character he gets killed off.

I'm sure that will be addressed big-time in future episodes.
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