View Poll Results: What word is being said?
Laurel 123 50.41%
Yanny 109 44.67%
Yes, the film Big DID have a different ending 12 4.92%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:37 AM
MarvinKitFox MarvinKitFox is offline
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This is "Laurel".
.
Just like that dress was Black and Blue.
.
YES, some sensor-impaired humans may perceive it as something different, but like the dress color, there is an objective truth.
The dress WAS black and Blue.
This sound IS "Laurel"
  #152  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I hear nothing but "Laurel" there. I can't even get my ears to hear "Yanny."
Same here. How does anyone hear a "n" sound in that???

ETA: Had not heard about this until this morning, and was listening to NPR as I was driving around. So, if it makes a difference, I heard it on my car sound system. But absolutely nothing that sounded anything even close to "Yanni".

Last edited by John Mace; 05-20-2018 at 12:01 PM.
  #153  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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One other thing. The NPR host was interviewing the guy whose voice it was, and he said in no uncertain terms that he was saying "Laurel". So how is it that we who hear "Laurel" are the ones not hearing it right?
  #154  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:22 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Same here. How does anyone hear a "n" sound in that??
I guess it's in the high frequencies. Like I said later in the thread, I managed to get it to sound like "Yanny" to me and it was really uncanny (and rhymed with it.) Truly bizarre stuff, because when I heard it as "yanny" it sounded, clear as day, like "yanny" rhymes with "fanny." And it made no sense to me how or why I heard "Laurel" before, but I haven't been able to reproduce the effect since that one time I was walking outside listening to my iPhone. I can't "will" myself to hear "yanny" like others here can. It was just that one time where I heard "yanny" and I really thought the sound sample were swapped or something for a moment, but they weren't.
  #155  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:28 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Originally Posted by MarvinKitFox View Post
The dress WAS black and Blue.
Ah, but the actual colors you see on the screen were objectively blue-ish white and a mustard/gold color, not black. The dress itself may have been black and blue, but those were not the actual colors in the picture, so it's difficult to say who is "right." I could make a sheet of white paper look blue in a photo quite easily, and if I ask "what color is the paper?" I would say both answers are correct. When the exposure and color balance are off, it's difficult to ascertain the original colors.
  #156  
Old 05-20-2018, 01:37 PM
not what you'd expect not what you'd expect is offline
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Well, I listened to it from the link above and clearly heard Yanni. Today I was listening to the radio in my car and NPR did a story about this. It was very distinctly Laurel.
  #157  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
The only way I could hear "laurel" was through the NY Times interactive tool.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...el-debate.html
If I put it in neutral, I hear "Laurel", clear as day. If I slide it all the way to the "Yanni" end, I hear what sounds like "Gary" being spoken by someone with an Israeli accent.
  #158  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:33 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I guess it's in the high frequencies. Like I said later in the thread, I managed to get it to sound like "Yanny" to me and it was really uncanny (and rhymed with it.) Truly bizarre stuff, because when I heard it as "yanny" it sounded, clear as day, like "yanny" rhymes with "fanny." And it made no sense to me how or why I heard "Laurel" before, but I haven't been able to reproduce the effect since that one time I was walking outside listening to my iPhone. I can't "will" myself to hear "yanny" like others here can. It was just that one time where I heard "yanny" and I really thought the sound sample were swapped or something for a moment, but they weren't.
After listening to it a bunch, I can switch back and forth at will.

I liken it to being able to pick a voice out of a crowd. If you are trying to hear your friend at a crowded restaurant, you can filter out the noise and hear just his voice, even if the amount of noise is greater than the voice. There's a bunch of noise in there, and there is just a bit of signal.

Most of the time, I hear "Laurel" spoken by a male voice, the rest is noise that is filtered out by my brain. But, if before listening, I picture someone younger, and maybe even sneering a bit to get the nasal overtones, I hear "Yanny", and the parts that are not Yanny get filtered out as noise.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 05-20-2018 at 02:34 PM.
  #159  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:11 AM
MarvinKitFox MarvinKitFox is offline
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Note the origin of this soundclip:
"One detail may frustrate some and vindicate others: The original clip came from the vocabulary.com page for “laurel,” the word for a wreath worn on the head, “usually a symbol of victory.”"

IT

IS

LAUREL

!!

(Which , when played using horridly malfunctioning sound filters / ears / minds / sound equipment, can be distorted to sound like ghjinnaaai ((which some silly people then translate as Yanni)))

Last edited by MarvinKitFox; 05-21-2018 at 04:13 AM.
  #160  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:48 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Well that's us told.

In an odd live version of this, I did a concert last week with a baritone soloist I hadn't worked with before, and in rehearsals several of us noticed that his voice had some very odd overtones that, even across the room, made it sound like there was a second, higher voice singing different vowel sounds simultaneously, much in the way that a low "Laurel" produces a high "Yanni". At first I thought he was just making something in the room resonate but it happened again in a different venue. Oddly (and perhaps fortunately) it didn't happen in the actual performance that I was able to hear. Mind you, it'll be on the radio this week so I'll have a listen and let you know.

When asked (diplomatically) about his singing style he mentioned letting the sound "resonate in the mask" (that is, the bones of the sinus areas above and below the eyes), which is in itself common practice, but I've never heard this effect achieved before and it wasn't clear whether the singer was aware that he was doing it. And I wasn't going to tell him...
  #161  
Old 05-21-2018, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Ah, but the actual colors you see on the screen were objectively blue-ish white and a mustard/gold color, not black. The dress itself may have been black and blue, but those were not the actual colors in the picture, so it's difficult to say who is "right." I could make a sheet of white paper look blue in a photo quite easily, and if I ask "what color is the paper?" I would say both answers are correct. When the exposure and color balance are off, it's difficult to ascertain the original colors.
There are objective realities in these sorts of things, at least two of them: what the actual object that is being represented is; and the physical characteristics of its (be it a picture or a sound clip) representation. What we are hearing/looking at is not the object but its representation. "This is not a pipe."

We can measure the wavelengths of the stripes in the picture of the dress and the sound spectra of the word clip, but the subjective experience, the experienced reality by the viewer/listener, happens internally as the result of processing and classification in a top-down/bottom-up dance. These are unintentional ambiguous figure-ground illusions in which some only see one as figure, some only the other, and some can flip.

The question is what level this occurs at. How much is who has lost some high pitched hearing, how much is how trained one is at filtering out noise from signal, how much is top-down mechanisms and from what level. Do musicians hear this clip differently than those with little musical training for example? Do people raised in say Japan, or some other very different language cultures, hear this on average differently?
  #162  
Old 05-21-2018, 11:59 AM
Irishman Irishman is offline
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I hear Laurel on the original, and all three files on the SPIN column - even the one they say is Yanny.

On the NYTimes page, the slider works for me, but it goes rather far to the right before it changes.

As it approaches the right, I first start to hear "Gary" before it settles to "Yammy". I don't hear an n, I distinctly hear m's.

Sliding back the other direction, it will stay "Yammy" closer to the middle than when I start in the middle, showing how the brain filters based on expectations.

Yes, the original voice said Laurel, and the sound file is intended to say Laurel and laurel is a word. That doesn't change what some people hear, which is the result of the brain processing files that have been distorted through some string of electronic audio devices and ears.
  #163  
Old 05-22-2018, 12:24 PM
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Clear "yammy" (not yanny) for me, I have no idea how anyone gets Laurel out of it. I have to move to the third notch from the left on the NYT page to hear Laurel. Between the 3rd and 4th notch it's sort of a hybrid yammy/Laurel.
  #164  
Old 05-22-2018, 12:30 PM
Ucha_G Ucha_G is offline
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It's a scientific thing but I most deff. hear Yanny. I think it has something to do with the pitch and speed of the voice. My friend was telling me that he heard a male voice saying laurel and I literally, over the phone, heard what he described. Except on my phone, I heard a female voice saying "Yanny".
  #165  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:05 PM
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Wow, so I just came in from outside, all hot and sweaty. Now when I go to the NYT page I clearly hear Laurel. I think they're messing with us.
  #166  
Old 05-22-2018, 05:36 PM
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Has anyone tried to see what Siri or Alexia or similar think is being said? Or something like Dragon Dictate?
  #167  
Old 05-22-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Has anyone tried to see what Siri or Alexia or similar think is being said? Or something like Dragon Dictate?
I'm sorry. Siri is not currently available. Please try again later.
  #168  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:36 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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"Jerry"

Then again I do suffer from some frequency loss AND English is not my mother tongue so its sounds are "learned" patterns to me.
  #169  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:46 PM
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The quality in the New York Times clip is so bad that I only hear laurel because that's what I heard before. On neutral, it should sound like the original, but it doesn't. It's very distorted and choppy sounding. I'm not sure I hear Laurel because that's what it sounds like, or because that's what I expect. I definitely do not hear the "y" I would hear when starting the audio on the real thing.

That said, I was able to use it to hear Yanny. I had to slide it nearly all the way to the right, where the Yanny becomes the same pitch as Laurel was. But that sounds like Ya__y. maybe Yally. As I slide it back to the left, I can get it to sound more like Yanny if I keep listening for it.

But, the thing is, the "voice" starts to sound like a chipmunk, and not like a real person. And when I get within one and a half stops of neutral, I hear Laurel in a normal (but bassy) speaking pitch range, and then that removes my ability to hear Yanny anymore.

After that, the changeover point moves to two spots from the end, which is where I clicked to mark it, since I can't hear it the way I originally did anymore. Still, the Yanny sounds like a slightly chipmunk real voice. While, even all the way to the left, Laurel still sounds mostly like a real person, with the real normal harmonics--or, at least, as close as they can with it being so choppy.

I do not get why the audio quality is so bad.

Last edited by BigT; 05-24-2018 at 06:48 PM.
  #170  
Old 05-24-2018, 07:04 PM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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Laurel is a word. Yanny is not. Laurel is said in a human voice. Yanny isn't even a voice, it's just a sound. It's Laurel every time.
  #171  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:01 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
In an odd live version of this, I did a concert last week with a baritone soloist I hadn't worked with before, and in rehearsals several of us noticed that his voice had some very odd overtones that, even across the room, made it sound like there was a second, higher voice singing different vowel sounds simultaneously, much in the way that a low "Laurel" produces a high "Yanni". At first I thought he was just making something in the room resonate but it happened again in a different venue. Oddly (and perhaps fortunately) it didn't happen in the actual performance that I was able to hear. Mind you, it'll be on the radio this week so I'll have a listen and let you know.
FWIW I listened and while the effect was more muted in concert it did crop up - most notably, when he sang a long "oo" vowel ("Jesu!") you could clearly hear in the upper overtones an "ee" vowel. There's probably a scientific explanation for this but I can't be bothered to look it up.

Last edited by Gyrate; 05-25-2018 at 04:02 AM.
  #172  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Laurel is a word. Yanny is not.

Sense when?
  #173  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Laurel is a word. Yanny is not. Laurel is said in a human voice. Yanny isn't even a voice, it's just a sound. It's Laurel every time.
This comes across as some kind of indignant logical response, when this is all about differences in auditory processing. People are hearing what they hear.
  #174  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:38 AM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post
Laurel is a word. Yanny is not. Laurel is said in a human voice. Yanny isn't even a voice, it's just a sound. It's Laurel every time.
Trust me, when the "yanny" stuff clicks in, it sounds exactly like "yanny" to me. It's a weird effect, and I've only got it to work on me once (well, one specific period of time, but over about a dozen samples), but it's really uncanny. It sounds like a voice saying "yanny." It doesn't sound like "just a sound." It literally sounds like a voice saying "yanny."

Last edited by pulykamell; 05-25-2018 at 09:39 AM.
  #175  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:27 AM
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WOOKINPANUB WOOKINPANUB is offline
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Originally Posted by Maserschmidt View Post
This comes across as some kind of indignant logical response, when this is all about differences in auditory processing. People are hearing what they hear.
One of the guys in my office - a real know it all type- heard "laurel". As the rest of us were talking and having fun with it, all he wanted to do was "explain" it to us (you know, by reading out loud the same articles we had all seen). When the origins of it were revealed and the fact that the word being said is laurel, he almost broke his own arm patting himself on the back. I could not make him understand the spirit of the issue. He just lives to be "right".
  #176  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:50 AM
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It's like an "optical" illusion with your ears. It's like an auditory version of an image where your brain can switch between seeing two different things, like this one of a old/young woman.

I hear Laurel. I have to move the slider to the rightmost segment before I hear Yanny. But once I hear Yanny, I have to move the slider left 2-3 segments before I year Laurel again. But then to get back to Yanny, I have to slide it all the way to the right to year Yanny again. So it seems like once my brain has decided on the sound, I need to modify the sound a lot to get it to hear the other.
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