#1  
Old 10-22-2015, 05:57 PM
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Positive Gun News of the Day


Negative gun news gets quite a bit of attention in media and on this board. There's a whole thread in the Pit that is over 6,200 posts and counting. This is a thread to bring up another aspect of gun ownership - positive news. I post it in this forum instead of in the Pit since it really is not any kind of statistical analysis, just mindless data points to share. Hopefully people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms.

I'll start with two items:

Brian Fletcher receives a pardon after being arrested for possessing a firearm while doing disaster relief work in NJ. An article talking about the original incident:
Quote:
A North Carolina man doing emergency, storm-related utility repairs in Mercer County last month is facing possible prison time after volunteering to a police officer in Hamilton that he had a handgun in his vehicle.
And the pardon itself.

Christie issued 2 other pardons that day as well for similar silly violations.


In other news, a would be robber was shot and killed as he attempted to rob a Waffle House:
Quote:
The Waffle House crew was busily going about its typical early-morning ritual — smothering and scrambling breakfast, clanking through the dirty dishes — when a robber jolted them out of their routine.

A customer decided he was having none of that and opened fire in the North Charleston eatery, thwarting the holdup Saturday by fatally shooting the suspect.

The young man who tried to rob the restaurant was rushed to Medical University Hospital, but he later died, police spokeswoman Angela Johnson said.

The intervening customer, who has not been identified, had a permit to carry a pistol, authorities said.
  #2  
Old 10-22-2015, 07:06 PM
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Hmm, I wonder if someone is trying to shore up his presidential run?

Did the customer have a "Bad Mother Fucker" wallet (but skipped the religious experience in the morning)?
  #3  
Old 10-22-2015, 07:29 PM
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I'm glad he got pardoned but it is weirdly ignorant to think it was OK to carry a gun across state borders without worry. The North East is "notoriously liberal" and anti-gun after all. Seems like maybe gun owners should take at least as tough a test as car drivers need to get a license and this type of stuff could be covered in it. Not exact rules for 50 states but that guns laws are at a state level and you should check before bringing loaded guns to other states.
  #4  
Old 10-22-2015, 10:20 PM
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Homeowner shoots and kills 2 possible intruders in SE Albuquerque
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A homeowner shot and killed two people Monday just before 10 p.m. near Gibson and Washington SE.

...

"I heard somebody go in the house and I thought it was the cops, but after that, I heard the three shots and I dove on the ground because I didn't know…" Duran said.
He and his wife, Geraldine, were among the first to check on their neighbor immediately after the shooting.
"We just heard the gunshots and we…got curious because we heard somebody crying. So I climbed up on the stairs to look over the fence to see who was crying, if they needed some help."
The Durans said that a woman at the house and the homeowner were both in tears.
"There was a gentleman standing at the doorway and I said, 'are you guys ok?'" Duran said. "And he said, 'I had to shoot them…I didn't want to shoot them, but they were breaking down my door…so I shot them,' and he was crying."
  #5  
Old 10-22-2015, 10:39 PM
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Two blocks from my house there is (or possibly was, it's not clear if they are going to be back in business) a small shop selling scooters (not sure what kind of scooters, it's a tiny shop that I never noticed). Last Sunday at 8:00 am four guys tried to break in and steal stuff. Unfortunately for them, the owner was there and armed. He shot and killed one of them; the others ran and escaped.

No cite because the case is still open and the police aren't saying anything. But I saw the incident tape when I drove by a little later, and the store is now boarded up. I got the details from our local Nextdoor board, and to some extent it was confirmed last night at our neighborhood police liaison meeting.

I completely sympathize with anyone who has to shoot another human being to protect his life, or his family, or even his livelihood.
  #6  
Old 10-22-2015, 10:39 PM
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...while doing disaster relief work in NJ.
That is both misleading and wrong. There was no life-threatening disaster, just storm-related outages. He wasn't a good Samaritan volunteering his own time to alleviate human suffering. He was hired to do rather routine repairs, that's all.

I don't know what New Jersey law calls for in a case like this, but on the surface, I agree that arresting and jailing him was unnecessarily harsh, and if justice were to be served, he'd get some sort of recompense for it. But there's no reason to falsely win more sympathy for him, especially when he was naive and/or stupid in not knowing the law.
  #7  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:33 AM
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That is both misleading and wrong. There was no life-threatening disaster, just storm-related outages. He wasn't a good Samaritan volunteering his own time to alleviate human suffering. He was hired to do rather routine repairs, that's all.
If I said he flew in on the back of a unicorn while spreading good will with the Care Bears, that would also be misleading and wrong. But since I didn't state that there was a life threatening disaster, or that he was volunteering, your assessment isn't on point.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:29 AM
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If I said he flew in on the back of a unicorn while spreading good will with the Care Bears, that would also be misleading and wrong. But since I didn't state that there was a life threatening disaster, or that he was volunteering, your assessment isn't on point.
Call me crazy, but "disaster relief worker" implies to me someone who works to relieve the suffering of people caused by a disaster. They often selflessly volunteer to do it because there aren't enough people with the official job description of "disaster relief worker". I suppose some could infer it to mean a selfish mercenary profiting from the misfortune of others, but to each his own subjective interpretation.

Regardless of what it means to anyone, there was no disaster; ergo, there was no disaster relief; ergo, he wasn't a disaster relief worker, so why did you refer to him as one? I assume you didn't see him as a selfish mercenary.
  #9  
Old 10-23-2015, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
Regardless of what it means to anyone, there was no disaster; ergo, there was no disaster relief; ergo, he wasn't a disaster relief worker, so why did you refer to him as one? I assume you didn't see him as a selfish mercenary.
Did you read the article?
Quote:
Fletcher is a co-owner if a company that upgrades and repairs cell towers and he is sometimes hired to do disaster relief work for AT&T through a local company in North Carolina.

The only other time he was in New Jersey was to do similar work after Superstorm Sandy in 2012, he said.

Fletcher said he is not given much time to get to a location and has to pack up and leave rapidly. In late June he received a call to go to New Jersey, following thunderstorms that caused outages.
From another article:
Quote:
When Brian Fletcher mobilized his men to head up to New Jersey, he did what any law abiding gun owner in North Carolina would do when heading into unknown territory – bring his legally obtained pistol. The mission? Disaster relief for Trenton, New Jersey. According to Fletcher, him and his entire team had less than an hour to get their equipment together and proceed north. And in almost all the states in the Southeast, he would have been perfectly fine bringing his firearm with him.
From another article:
Quote:
On the night of June 28, Brian was waiting in a parking lot with his men and trucks to await further word on the next tower. A New Jersey police officer pulled up behind his truck and inquired as to what he was doing. According to Fletcher, they discussed the disaster relief work and so forth. It was then Fletcher handed over his ID and did what any law abiding citizen of North Carolina would do (N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.12A.) – inform the officer that he had a firearm in his vehicle.
First off, I didn't refer to him as a "disaster relief worker". I said he was doing disaster relief work. Not sure why I thought he was doing disaster relief work. Oh that's right, because he was.
  #10  
Old 10-23-2015, 06:51 PM
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Did you read the article?
From another article:

From another article:

First off, I didn't refer to him as a "disaster relief worker". I said he was doing disaster relief work. Not sure why I thought he was doing disaster relief work. Oh that's right, because he was.
No matter how many people call a dog's tail a leg, it still isn't a leg. There was no disaster, period. Show us the devastation and human suffering that all the media slept through. The only reason to call him a disaster relief worker--pardon me, that he was doing disaster relief work--is to create more sympathy for him than he deserves.

Did you read the article? It says, as you yourself quoted, "he is sometimes hired to do disaster relief", not that he was in this case, because he wasn't. I guess you just forgot to highlight "sometimes". Your other two links are to the same slanted story. One site just copied the other verbatim but you quoted different parts so it looks like two separate stories. Any other cheap stunts you want to perform for us?

What I really fail to see is how a guy who gets into trouble by not bothering to learn the law is a good gun story. Even more to the point, as it's already been pointed out by a few other posters, how is killing people, for whatever reason, good?
  #11  
Old 11-10-2015, 08:30 PM
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I don't know what New Jersey law calls for in a case like this
Google is kinda your friend.

The NJ State Police regs.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:59 PM
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The other day, I shot a soft rubber ball (about the size of a billiard ball) off the top of a beer bottle, without hitting/breaking the bottle, at a range of about 60 yards with my .22 Glenfield. Took two shots at it. Nailed it the second shot. I was shooting clay targets that somebody left up on the hill from the same range, but it started getting too easy. And I never have a shortage of beer bottles.

Positive news to me, at least!
  #13  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Negative gun news gets quite a bit of attention in media and on this board. There's a whole thread in the Pit that is over 6,200 posts and counting. This is a thread to bring up another aspect of gun ownership - positive news. I post it in this forum instead of in the Pit since it really is not any kind of statistical analysis, just mindless data points to share. Hopefully people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms.

I'll start with two items:

Brian Fletcher receives a pardon after being arrested for possessing a firearm while doing disaster relief work in NJ. An article talking about the original incident:

And the pardon itself.

Christie issued 2 other pardons that day as well for similar silly violations.


In other news, a would be robber was shot and killed as he attempted to rob a Waffle House:
One slight problem with your "Good Gun News" -

The Would be robber was "armed with a pistol".
In other words - he threatened the staff with a gun, whereupon he was shot...

So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?

Quote:
According to a NCPD incident report released Monday afternoon, Davis approached the bar area and asked the price of a drink. Employees noticed he had his jacket hood up over his head with the drawstrings pulled tight around his face. They told police he went to sit in a booth and when several of the employees went to the back, he came around the counter armed with a gun and demanded money.


Seems to me rather like saying,
Well damn, he did a pretty good job or rushing me to the hospital after running me down while speeding and driving drunk in a school zone
  #14  
Old 10-23-2015, 06:30 AM
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One slight problem with your "Good Gun News" -

The Would be robber was "armed with a pistol".
In other words - he threatened the staff with a gun, whereupon he was shot...

So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?
I thought the whole point was that an armed customer that had a permit for it prevented the armed robber from harming anyone else by shooting him.
  #15  
Old 10-23-2015, 06:46 AM
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So I'd like to know - how is a 19 year old racist having access to a gun, and trying to use said gun to rob a store good news?
He won't be doing it again?
  #16  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:46 AM
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Racist?

A 19 year old can own, just can't purchase from a FFL.
  #17  
Old 10-23-2015, 01:58 AM
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Racist?

A 19 year old can own, just can't purchase from a FFL.
Yes - he tweeted a picture with a gun and something about Nigga a few days prior to the robbery attempt
  #18  
Old 10-23-2015, 06:59 PM
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Yes - he tweeted a picture with a gun and something about Nigga a few days prior to the robbery attempt
I didn't see that, but you know that he was black, right?
  #19  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:16 AM
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Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
  #20  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:25 AM
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From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's. When I saw the thread title, I was trying to think what I would consider positive gun news, and came up with target shooting and successful legal hunting of non-endangered animals.

People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy. We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead. Their families are mourning them. There's nothing positive about that.

Last edited by SpoilerVirgin; 10-23-2015 at 08:26 AM.
  #21  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:53 AM
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We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead.
Whether we have the death penalty for those crimes or not doesn't matter. People who want to be a positive influence in the world can start with an easy one: Don't commit crimes, especially violent crimes, against other people. From there, they can move on to feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and so on. See how that works?
  #22  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:22 AM
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Don't commit crimes, especially violent crimes, against other people.
Is that what you'd tell that vigilante?
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:31 AM
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Is that what you'd tell that vigilante?
A vigilante that did act by taking the law in his own hands, but also followed the law. Don’t think he broke any, did he?
  #24  
Old 10-23-2015, 12:43 PM
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Whether we have the death penalty for those crimes or not doesn't matter.
It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.

Last edited by SpoilerVirgin; 10-23-2015 at 12:44 PM.
  #25  
Old 10-25-2015, 12:33 AM
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It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.
You must be really bummed out by the tens of thousands of people who die every single year in car accidents.
  #26  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:21 AM
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It matters to my assessment of what news I consider to be positive. People being killed is not something that I consider to be positive, even if they are committing crimes. I see these situations as tragedies all the way around -- I don't celebrate the fact that that the crime ended in the death of the perpetrator.

I should add that this assessment has nothing to do with the fact that a gun is involved. I wouldn't consider it positive news if someone killed a burglar with a knife, or a knitting needle, or by pushing him down the stairs.
Think of it as a lesser of two evils situation if that helps. The alternatives are not:

A) criminal gets shot and killed, or
B) criminal gets away after causing no harm to anyone.

The alternatives are:

A) criminal gets shot and killed,
B) criminal gets away after causing no harm to anyone, or
C) criminal gets away after killing the father, raping the mother and stealing all their stuff.

And many alternatives in between

Guns are not really necessary in a perfect world. They are necessary in an imperfect one.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 11-13-2015 at 11:22 AM.
  #27  
Old 10-24-2015, 05:49 PM
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From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's.
I'd say it's positive news that neither the homeowners being intruded upon nor the employees of the restaurant were shot or killed by the bad guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler Virgin
But I strongly disagree that violent death is a deserved conclusion. This is what I meant when I said that we don't have the death penalty for burglary (here in California, the death penalty is only for murder or treason).
There is absolutely no way to know what's going to happen once someone has broken into your home or pulled a gun in a robbery. This is why shooting robbers and intruders is justified. Too many times the victims in such circumstances are murdered to eliminate witnesses, and/or to prevent the victims from calling the police in order to assure maximum time to get away. It isn't that the robbers "deserve" being killed even though they haven't killed anybody (yet), it's that by their actions they've placed innocent people in jeopardy of their lives. In other words, self-preservation (for themselves or to protect employees and patrons in the case of workplace shootings) is the reason for their being killed, not because the particular crimes they committed or are trying to commit warrant it on their own.
  #28  
Old 10-24-2015, 05:58 PM
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People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy.
Agreed it's tragic but it is certainly a better outcome than the alternative where the perpetrator is successful and/or harms innocent people. Wouldn't you agree?
  #29  
Old 10-25-2015, 10:13 PM
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Agreed it's tragic but it is certainly a better outcome than the alternative where the perpetrator is successful and/or harms innocent people. Wouldn't you agree?
Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
  #30  
Old 10-26-2015, 11:13 AM
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Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
The problem is that handing over the money to the robber in no way guarantees your safety. He may well kill you to eliminate witnesses or just out of spite.
  #31  
Old 10-26-2015, 05:29 PM
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Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?
Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
Would you shoot to kill in order to protect life from an armed robber?
  #32  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:28 AM
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Not necessarily -
A life vs losing the money in the till to a fuckwit thief?

Between the two I know which I would choose - even if it was my personal money
What if you needed that money to pay your rent on the store? or on your home?
  #33  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:11 AM
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From my perspective, the only positive news in this entire thread is Gatopescado's. When I saw the thread title, I was trying to think what I would consider positive gun news, and came up with target shooting and successful legal hunting of non-endangered animals.

People dying prematurely and violently, even if they were in the process of committing a crime, is not positive, it's a tragedy. We do not have the death penalty for burglary, and I don't even think it's appropriate for armed robbery. People who might have had a chance at being a positive influence in the world are dead. Their families are mourning them. There's nothing positive about that.
These encounters don't always end in death.

How would you feel about a rape victim shooting her assailant while being raped. Is THAT positive gun news or should we shed a tear for the rapist?

We don't kill robbers after the fact when the crime is in the past. But while the robber is threatening life and limb, his life is forfeit.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 11-13-2015 at 11:14 AM.
  #34  
Old 10-23-2015, 09:27 AM
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Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
For the most part we are "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon." But because mass murderers and common criminals are so often used as examples of why I shouldn't have a firearm, I don't see any harm in someone giving examples of why I possibly should have one.

And while specific examples elude me this AM, there have been several examples of Positive Abortion Stories given here over the years. Not in a dedicated thread, I will admit, but people giving examples of why they made that choice and the benefit they felt it brought.
  #35  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:08 AM
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Kind of offensive to list the deaths of people as "good news" even if the dead were pricks. I thought gun people were all about, "gosh, I sure hope I never have to use my weapon."

How would we feel about a Positive Abortion Stories thread.
You're welcome to start one. I don't know what you would list as a positive abortion, but I'd be interested to find out.
  #36  
Old 11-13-2015, 01:52 PM
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You're welcome to start one. I don't know what you would list as a positive abortion, but I'd be interested to find out.
You kind of sucks at grasping points, don't you?

I see no "positive abortion stories" because when someone decides to have an abortion I consider it an unfortunate but necessary occurrence. Much like what I was told gun owners feel if they have the misfortune to find themselves in a situation where they must shoot somebody. But apparently that's just one more positive thing about your favorite toys. Who knew?
  #37  
Old 11-13-2015, 02:40 PM
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It looks like Jihadi John has finally been offed.

It would be interesting to know how the anti-gun people in this thread feel about this. I'd wager most are delighted but loathe to admit it.

If on the other hand you are delighted and feel justice has been done, I'll point out this is the reason you perceive happiness on the part of some of us on the pro-gun side when the type of people who shoot young nursing mothers in the stomach or murder entire families in convenience store coolers get shot. It's not that we're blood-thirsty and eager for someone to get shot, it's that some people's crimes are so heinous that both justice and public safety demand it.

I'll admit that some defensive shootings are unfortunate, particularly those where small amounts of money are being robbed or a drug addict breaks in looking for something to pawn and is unaware someone is at home. These are kinds of crimes where the crook may or may not have murderous intent, but there's no way to know until it's too late and they're the ones who've made themselves a threat to their victims' lives.

Either way, though, the best outcome is not to deprive the innocent parties in these scenarios the ability to use firearms to defend themselves.
  #38  
Old 11-14-2015, 02:35 AM
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So a drone strike that has probably killed a terrorist is also within the remit of Positive Gun News?

Gosh.
  #39  
Old 11-16-2015, 08:24 AM
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You kind of sucks at grasping points, don't you?

I see no "positive abortion stories" because when someone decides to have an abortion I consider it an unfortunate but necessary occurrence. Much like what I was told gun owners feel if they have the misfortune to find themselves in a situation where they must shoot somebody. But apparently that's just one more positive thing about your favorite toys. Who knew?
  #40  
Old 11-16-2015, 10:33 AM
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Compelling rebuttal.
  #41  
Old 10-23-2015, 08:28 AM
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Robbery Attempt At Light Rail Station Backfires When Would-Be Victim Gets The Gun
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Denver police say James Arellano, 21, from Westminster, had a gun and smacked a victim on the head while attempting to rob a man and woman on the C line after first harassing a pair of teenagers.

Investigators say Arellano was with another young man during the robbery attempt.

“One of the victims is struck by the suspects … with the gun,” Christine Downs with Denver police said.

The victims ran from the train at the Auraria West light rail station platform. Police say Arellano fired his gun three times at close range at his victims, but missed and then the victims fought back.

While the male victim scuffled with Arellano the gun fell to the ground and the female victim shot Arellano. He suffered injuries not considered to be life-threatening.
...
Arellano faces three charges including robbery, felony menacing and possession of a weapon.
Robbery suspect shot with his own gun - that he wasn't legally able to possess.

***
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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
He won't be doing it again?
Bingo.
  #42  
Old 10-23-2015, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Robbery Attempt At Light Rail Station Backfires When Would-Be Victim Gets The Gun


Robbery suspect shot with his own gun - that he wasn't legally able to possess.
Sounds like this is a bit of Negative Gun News. Because, you know, it doesn't seem like the fact that he wasn't legally able to possess a gun was much of an impediment to his becoming a Bad Guy With A Gun.
  #43  
Old 11-11-2015, 02:44 PM
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Sounds like this is a bit of Negative Gun News. Because, you know, it doesn't seem like the fact that he wasn't legally able to possess a gun was much of an impediment to his becoming a Bad Guy With A Gun.
Exactly. And banning guns isn't going to make it any harder for him. It will just make it impossible for the rest of us.
  #44  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Sounds like this is a bit of Negative Gun News. Because, you know, it doesn't seem like the fact that he wasn't legally able to possess a gun was much of an impediment to his becoming a Bad Guy With A Gun.
Thats a bit of a silly argument isn't it?
  #45  
Old 11-11-2015, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Robbery Attempt At Light Rail Station Backfires When Would-Be Victim Gets The Gun


Robbery suspect shot with his own gun - that he wasn't legally able to possess
And your idea of a positive gun story is that a person who was able to illegally obtain a gun attempted to rob people, fired at them three times, but then had the gun taken off him by one of the victims?

You are effectively saying that really nasty events that didn't go as badly as they could have are good things.
  #46  
Old 11-11-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
And your idea of a positive gun story is that a person who was able to illegally obtain a gun attempted to rob people, fired at them three times, but then had the gun taken off him by one of the victims?

You are effectively saying that really nasty events that didn't go as badly as they could have are good things.
Of course not - the positive part is that the robbery suspect was shot with his own gun. The events leading up to that point were negative. Wouldn't you agree?

I am saying that even in the face of horrible circumstances, people can use guns in a positive way.
  #47  
Old 11-11-2015, 10:45 AM
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Of course not - the positive part is that the robbery suspect was shot with his own gun. The events leading up to that point were negative. Wouldn't you agree?

I am saying that even in the face of horrible circumstances, people can use guns in a positive way.
Apropos of this thread, I quote Francis from Stripes :

"All I know is I finally get to kill somebody."
  #48  
Old 11-11-2015, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
And your idea of a positive gun story is that a person who was able to illegally obtain a gun attempted to rob people, fired at them three times, but then had the gun taken off him by one of the victims?

You are effectively saying that really nasty events that didn't go as badly as they could have are good things.
Would you prefer they played out in the most atrocious possible way?
  #49  
Old 11-11-2015, 02:59 PM
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Would you prefer they played out in the most atrocious possible way?
Actually no. But then again I'm not the one rushing to describe events that sound pretty damned horrible to me as "positive"
  #50  
Old 11-11-2015, 03:32 PM
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Actually no. But then again I'm not the one rushing to describe events that sound pretty damned horrible to me as "positive"
Until you come up with a reliable method of identifying those who would rob, rape, and/or kill before they commit those crimes, we must take our positives where we xan find them.
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