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  #51  
Old 01-07-2016, 08:22 PM
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Haven't seen it but listened to the soundtrack and was floored. So good.
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2016, 09:35 AM
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For those who'd like a tiny Hamilton on their bookshelves: https://www.wbritain.com/product-sto...volution/17763
  #53  
Old 01-13-2016, 02:57 PM
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BTW, does anyone else want Daveed Diggs to have their babies? Because that man is my new secret boyfriend. DAAAAAAMN.
I want him and Renée Elise Goldsberry to have one and let me adopt it.
  #54  
Old 01-15-2016, 04:43 PM
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Well, I did it.

Got tickets for the show on July 7th (!!!!), flying from LA to NYC on a redeye on the 4th and flying back on the 9th. My SIL who is also a huge fan is coming with - I'm paying for her ticket to the show, she's paying for half the flight/hotel.

I promised myself when I got sick that I wouldn't spend a lot of $$ on bucket list stuff, but I think just one won't hurt...
Glad you were able to score some tickets! Miranda may be gone by then but I'm sure whoever follows him will be just as great. Or maybe he'll still be around, who knows? You'll be in a patriotic state of mind right after the 4th of July, too!
  #55  
Old 02-16-2016, 08:27 PM
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Video of the opening number as performed on the Grammys last night, the show picked up the "Best Musical Theater Album" award.
  #56  
Old 02-17-2016, 02:00 PM
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Its coming to LA in 2017.
  #57  
Old 02-17-2016, 02:05 PM
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Video of the opening number as performed on the Grammys last night, the show picked up the "Best Musical Theater Album" award.
I see I was first to respond to this thread, and in a negative way. But the other night I saw that part of the Grammys, and I must say, it was quite good. I could enjoy this show, and will try to get tickets.
  #58  
Old 03-12-2016, 12:28 PM
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Its coming to LA in 2017.
Yes. Just announced by Playhouse Square in Cleveland:

Lin-Manuel MIranda's gargantuan Broadway hit "Hamilton" launches its national tour in March 2017 at the Orpheum Theatre in San Francisco, before playing a Los Angeles engagement at the Hollywood Pantages August 11 through December 30, 2017.

No word yet on other cities.
  #59  
Old 03-14-2016, 10:54 PM
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Miranda raps for Obama outside the Oval Office: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/14/politi...yle/index.html
  #60  
Old 03-15-2016, 10:22 AM
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Miranda raps for Obama outside the Oval Office: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/14/politi...yle/index.html
That's cool. Especially if he is really making it up as he goes.
  #61  
Old 03-16-2016, 04:57 PM
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Glad you were able to score some tickets! Miranda may be gone by then but I'm sure whoever follows him will be just as great.
Miranda is a genius. That he conceived, wrote, and composed a show this good is awe-inspiring. However, as a Broadway vocalist, he's subpar.

Since the start of the Broadway run, he's only done about half the performances; an understudy fills in on a regular schedule. We saw the understudy. We were disappointed upon receiving the news, but stopped caring once the show started. After listening to the cast album (with Miranda, not the understudy (whose name I really wish I knew)), I'm glad we saw who we did.
  #62  
Old 03-17-2016, 08:40 AM
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Javier Muńoz?
  #63  
Old 03-17-2016, 09:17 AM
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When I first saw a scene from this as performed on some talk show I thought it was a joke scene put together to parody what a wasteland Broadway had become.

It took someone quite a while to convince me that this tripe was actually being performed in a real theater.

I have seen other bits and pieces of it since and have become convinced it is a joke. But the joke is on the theater going public. This just goes to show that the car crash theory of attracting an audience is now the mainstay of American entertainment.

Remember back when Jerry Springer was an outlier? When real housewives were the bedrock of America and not "Real Housewives" TM? I guess the Jersey shore always was a bit or a wasteland but at least it wasn't on television.

And now the founding fathers are reduced to a bunch of idiots jumping around the stage shouting.
  #64  
Old 03-17-2016, 09:58 AM
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Poor Pabitel.

Did you miss the recent appearance of the Hamilton cast at the White House, to perform highlights from the musical for students, the President & the First Lady? Did you heave President Obama joke that the play was the only thing he & Dick Cheney agreed upon? (Cheney saw the play some time ago.)

Have you seen or read any of the interviews with Ron Chernow, Pulitzer winning author of the biography that inspired the play. By age & background, he was not a fan of rap or hip-hop--but was converted. (Other musical styles appear in the lay--classic Broadway show-stoppers, Brit-Pop (for George III), jazzy blues & a bit of harpsichord.)

No, the Founding Fathers did not sing & dance all day. Did you object to 1776? Playbill just published a phone conversation between William Daniels (John Adams in that play & the movie) & Lin-Manuel Miranda, creator of Hamilton. (Daniels hasn't seen the play yet--it's exceedingly sold out; Miranda said he knew a guy.)

Have you actually listened to the songs? They are not stupid, even though they are mostly sung by non-whites.

Last edited by Bridget Burke; 03-17-2016 at 10:00 AM.
  #65  
Old 03-17-2016, 10:13 AM
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When I first saw a scene from this as performed on some talk show I thought it was a joke scene put together to parody what a wasteland Broadway had become.

It took someone quite a while to convince me that this tripe was actually being performed in a real theater.

I have seen other bits and pieces of it since and have become convinced it is a joke. But the joke is on the theater going public. This just goes to show that the car crash theory of attracting an audience is now the mainstay of American entertainment.

Remember back when Jerry Springer was an outlier? When real housewives were the bedrock of America and not "Real Housewives" TM? I guess the Jersey shore always was a bit or a wasteland but at least it wasn't on television.

And now the founding fathers are reduced to a bunch of idiots jumping around the stage shouting.
Can you be more specific?Is your issue the subject matter not being handled in a sufficiently serious way or do you just not like the particular music genre, or perhaps not musical theatre in general?Not saying you must defend your opininion, not am I defending the play, since I've not even seen it, but since your opinion is in the minority and it's a pretty strong one, I was just wondering.
  #66  
Old 03-17-2016, 01:10 PM
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Can you be more specific?Is your issue the subject matter not being handled in a sufficiently serious way or do you just not like the particular music genre, or perhaps not musical theatre in general?Not saying you must defend your opininion, not am I defending the play, since I've not even seen it, but since your opinion is in the minority and it's a pretty strong one, I was just wondering.
It is the ridiculous over the top nature of the production. I take one look at any of the performances available via video and all I can think is, you've got to be kidding.

I would feel the same way about a bluegrass version of Madam Butterfly or a Zydeco version of The Godfather. The gimmick is so silly and over the top that the substance is completely lost on me.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:16 PM
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I haven't seen the entire show either, just the numbers performed for video, but I always find that I can judge a work better after I have actually seen it.
  #68  
Old 03-17-2016, 01:31 PM
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It is the ridiculous over the top nature of the production. I take one look at any of the performances available via video and all I can think is, you've got to be kidding.
Okay, I hear you. Let me make a suggestion:

Instead of watching the video, go pull up an audio recording of Cabinet Battle #1, and listen to it. Read along with the lyrics on genius.com (maybe pausing every now and then to read the annotations), then come back and tell us what you think.
  #69  
Old 03-17-2016, 02:04 PM
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Okay, I hear you. Let me make a suggestion:

Instead of watching the video, go pull up an audio recording of Cabinet Battle #1, and listen to it. Read along with the lyrics on genius.com (maybe pausing every now and then to read the annotations), then come back and tell us what you think.
Tried it.

There was a horrible, random, thumping electronic drum machine in the background of the recording that made it almost impossible to understand the words and very unpleasant to listen to. When I turned it up enough so i could understand the actors my fillings were vibrating from the poorly done drum track. I did read the lyrics through though and it seemed that they could have actually acted the scene with something approaching the original language and the scene would be clearer, more relatable and most likely more powerful.

What is it about putting unnatural language in the character's mouths and adding an overpowering fake drum loop that you think improves the piece?

I'm not suggesting the libretto is bad. I am sure this is based on good history. My question is why spoil the good history by hiding it behind a silly conceit.

What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
  #70  
Old 03-17-2016, 02:09 PM
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What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
Well hell, you could say that about the tubas in Der Ring des Nibelungen.
  #71  
Old 03-17-2016, 02:26 PM
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Tried it.

There was a horrible, random, thumping electronic drum machine in the background of the recording that made it almost impossible to understand the words and very unpleasant to listen to. When I turned it up enough so i could understand the actors my fillings were vibrating from the poorly done drum track. I did read the lyrics through though and it seemed that they could have actually acted the scene with something approaching the original language and the scene would be clearer, more relatable and most likely more powerful.

What is it about putting unnatural language in the character's mouths and adding an overpowering fake drum loop that you think improves the piece?

I'm not suggesting the libretto is bad. I am sure this is based on good history. My question is why spoil the good history by hiding it behind a silly conceit.

What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
Hey, if you can't get it, you can't get it. Many people do--quite sincerely.

Lin-Manuel Miranda has said: “This is a story about America then, told by America now." I suppose so many non-white performers using some definitely non-white musical styles could make certain folks nervous. I'm from the older, paler demographic but enjoyed the music the first time I heard it. (Most of us have just heard the cast recording, especially here in flyover country.)

1776 was anachronistic, too. What did you think about that musical? (If I want The Real Thing, I'll read a book.)
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:27 PM
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Hah.....

It like when people looked at Jesus Christ Super Star 40 years ago and said "a ROCK MUSICAL about JESUS! I never!"
  #73  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:35 PM
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There was a horrible, random, thumping electronic drum machine in the background of the recording that made it almost impossible to understand the words and very unpleasant to listen to. When I turned it up enough so i could understand the actors my fillings were vibrating from the poorly done drum track.
I haven't heard the music, but this sounds like more a problem with the settings on your audio system or computer. You may have your bass cranked up to the max, without realizing it.

Or at least, I doubt that everyone else is having to turn up the volume of their music so loud that it's uncomfortable to be able to hear the performers.
  #74  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:59 PM
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When I first saw a scene from this as performed on some talk show I thought it was a joke scene put together to parody what a wasteland Broadway had become.

It took someone quite a while to convince me that this tripe was actually being performed in a real theater.

I have seen other bits and pieces of it since and have become convinced it is a joke. But the joke is on the theater going public. This just goes to show that the car crash theory of attracting an audience is now the mainstay of American entertainment.

Remember back when Jerry Springer was an outlier? When real housewives were the bedrock of America and not "Real Housewives" TM? I guess the Jersey shore always was a bit or a wasteland but at least it wasn't on television.

And now the founding fathers are reduced to a bunch of idiots jumping around the stage shouting.
I understand different strokes for different folks but your opinion boggles my mind. I literally haven't stopped listening to this soundtrack since I first heard it in January. It is amazing.

The music they chose is not random. Their point is to connect the history of rap and black culture with the history of America. That is one of the subtexts of the show. Many of the songs in Hamilton are call backs to famous hip hop music. But even putting that aside, the music is catchy as hell and the story of the birth of our nation is intriguing.

It is fair to say "This music just isn't for me". That is your opinion and your right but to call it technically sloppy and badly done is just wrong.
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Old 03-17-2016, 04:58 PM
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I would feel the same way about a bluegrass version of Madam Butterfly or a Zydeco version of The Godfather. The gimmick is so silly and over the top that the substance is completely lost on me.
I have performed in the chorus of a traditional production of Madam Butterfly, and I love and admire that work without limit, but I would stand in line for two hours in the rain to watch an intelligently, imaginatively constructed bluegrass version of it.

Genre-bending is not necessarily a "gimmick". Many people were similarly put off by the Gershwin and Heyward morphing of traditional musical theater into "folk opera" in Porgy and Bess, but that wasn't a "gimmick" either.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:50 AM
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Old 03-18-2016, 08:39 AM
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I finally got around to listening to this last weekend (I had been putting it off in hopes that I'd maybe get to see it before listening to it).

It is, indeed, a pretty great freaking musical (I know, the world has been waiting for me to weigh in on this topic ). I was in the car with someone else, and we didn't say a word for the two and a half hours it was on. Great performances, great writing (musical and lyrical) and great production.

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why spoil the good history by hiding it behind a silly conceit.

What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
I am far from an expert on Hip Hop (but am a semi-expert on Broadway), but calling this a 'silly conceit' or 'marketing ploy' shows a lack of understanding of the material.
  • The art of Lin-Manuel Miranda, the composer, has been drenched in hip hop elements his whole life. It's not a conceit, it's the palate he uses. You wouldn't accuse Billy Joel, for example, or hiding his music behind the silly conceit of rock and roll, would you?
  • Even knowing nothing about hip hop, it's obvious that Hamilton is truly authentic. It's not a gimmick conceived of by suits sitting upstairs at the Richard Rodgers theatre, but is in fact a true piece of art in the hip hop milieu.

    There is a lot of material from Broadway that is a pale imitation of some 'ethnic' musical trope, or cool hip contemporary style of which the composer has only a vague understanding, having heard an example once in an ethno-musicology class, or playing in the bodega where he occasionally buys his cigarettes. Like this show or don't like this show, but the accusation of it being a gimmick is demonstrably false; it's the real deal.


(One of my favorite lyrical motifs in the show was the counting to 9 and not 10. After I mentioned how much I loved it, my friend played me 'The 10 Crack Commandments,' which Miranda was referencing.)

Last edited by Eonwe; 03-18-2016 at 08:39 AM.
  #78  
Old 03-18-2016, 05:36 PM
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I have performed in the chorus of a traditional production of Madam Butterfly, and I love and admire that work without limit, but I would stand in line for two hours in the rain to watch an intelligently, imaginatively constructed bluegrass version of it.
You might consider looking up Jay Munly's "Petr & the Wulf" which is based on the story (but not the music) for Peter and the Wolf.
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:29 PM
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Pábitel, I'm also curious how you feel about 1776 and Jesus Christ Superstar.

For that matter, how about Rent? It's a shameless steal from La Bohčme: Mark the aspiring artistic filmaker is Marcello the struggling painter; Roger the songwriter is Rodolfo the poet; Tom Collins the philosophical anarchist is Colline the philosopher; Angel Schunard the street musician is Schaunard the musician; and shockingly, Mimi the exotic dancer suffering from AIDS is Mimi the seamstress suffering from consumption.

Was Rent a gimmick with no value?
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:07 PM
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...(One of my favorite lyrical motifs in the show was the counting to 9 and not 10. After I mentioned how much I loved it, my friend played me 'The 10 Crack Commandments,' which Miranda was referencing.)
Which I'd never heard of before, but here they are: http://genius.com/The-notorious-big-...ndments-lyrics
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:46 PM
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I have performed in the chorus of a traditional production of Madam Butterfly, and I love and admire that work without limit, but I would stand in line for two hours in the rain to watch an intelligently, imaginatively constructed bluegrass version of it.

Genre-bending is not necessarily a "gimmick". Many people were similarly put off by the Gershwin and Heyward morphing of traditional musical theater into "folk opera" in Porgy and Bess, but that wasn't a "gimmick" either.
Isn't Miss Saigon a resetting of Madame Butterfly? i.e. its already been genre bent.
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:13 PM
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Duly noted that some people dislike Hip Hop per se, and that they find it gimmicky to do theatre in the current chart-pop idiom or as a way to translate the life of some historic figure into current political issues.

The rest of us may continue to enjoy and like and find relevant or at least that it's got a good beat and is fun to listen.

And my homeboy Miranda is laughing all the way to the bank, of course.


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Isn't Miss Saigon a resetting of Madame Butterfly? i.e. its already been genre bent.
With the "gimmick" of landing a Huey inside the theatre, no less.

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  #83  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:47 PM
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Isn't Miss Saigon a resetting of Madame Butterfly? i.e. its already been genre bent.
M Butterfly definitely was.

Pábitel, are there any musicals that you like?
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:20 PM
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Isn't Miss Saigon a resetting of Madame Butterfly? i.e. its already been genre bent.
And gender bent.

Oh, wait -- that was M. Butterfly.

:rimshot:
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:26 PM
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M Butterfly definitely was.

Pábitel, are there any musicals that you like?
damnit
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:18 AM
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<degression>

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Was Rent a gimmick with no value?
Yes.

There were some wonderful things about it, to be sure. But I found it galling to sit through a remake of La Boheme in which the characters spend 2 hours singing about ignoring commercialism and being true to your art, and then Mimi comes back to life at the end.

</digression>
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Old 03-20-2016, 07:54 AM
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.

What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
Ah, SDMB critique. Sorry, this isn't necessarily just directed at you but at a lot of people who attempt to be critical on here (and indeed on the whole of the Internet) when what they are being is reactionary and dismissive.

The question you asked is the question you should be trying to answer yourself if you want to offer a valid critique of any kind. You may not like Hamilton or the music, personally I think it's great Broadway but pretty poor hip hop,thats fine. That doesn't make it bad art, it just makes it not to your taste. It isn't the same thing.

Going back to the tradition of Brecht anachronistic historical pieces have been set in order to prompt audiences to draw connections between the past events and the modern day. If you actually saw Hamilton, or even just listened to the cast recording, that is obviously what Miranda is doing here as well. You can argue that you don't like it, you can argue that he is not successful (but then you would need to bring some actual, you know, evidence to the table. Maybe actually see the show.) but you can't really argue that what he is doing isn't potentially bringing anything to the table. It's an old tradition. The better argument would be that this sort of trope is tired and easy not that it's meaningless.

And it is tired and it is a bit easy. That's why Rent is so difficult to sit through, because it was a bit lazy. Beautiful music, lazy storytelling. Hamilton isn't. He nails it. How do I know? Because I have actually experience with the whole production. You may not like it, but that's not the same as it being bad. And you really do need to make an attempt to experience a work of art as a whole before your criticism can be taken seriously.

/End lesson on critical analysis that will likely be ignored.

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  #88  
Old 03-20-2016, 08:53 AM
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Hamilton isn't. He nails it. How do I know? Because I have actually experience with the whole production.
I don't s'pose you could get a sister tickets?
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:47 AM
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What really does the anachronistic mode that this is presented in bring to the table except as a marketing ploy.
Yeah, I hate it when so-called "artists" and "playwrights" do this. Like, putting on a play of an ancient Roman myth in modern times? Hello, Shakespeare, we don't need your anachronistic gimmicks! A Midsummer Night's Dream? More like A Midsummer Night's Cash Grab, amiright?
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:49 PM
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FWIW, there are just a very very few moments in musical theatre that can get me to tear up... Or would, you know, if I weren't so tough and manly.

Eponine's "A Little Fall of Rain."

Kim's reprise asking how, in one night, did they come so far.

And Philip's telling his father he did just what he said and fired into the sky.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:10 PM
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FWIW, there are just a very very few moments in musical theatre that can get me to tear up... Or would, you know, if I weren't so tough and manly.

Eponine's "A Little Fall of Rain."

Kim's reprise asking how, in one night, did they come so far.

And Philip's telling his father he did just what he said and fired into the sky.
For me it's during Who Lives Who Dies when Eliza comes back.
"I stop wasting time on tears
I live another fifty years
It’s not enough"
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:32 PM
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I will counter with It's Quiet Uptown.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angelica Schuyler Church

There are moments that the words don't reach
There is suffering too terrible to name
You hold your child as tight as you can
And push away the unimaginable

Last edited by Maggie the Ocelot; 03-22-2016 at 02:32 PM.
  #93  
Old 03-22-2016, 02:38 PM
Maggie the Ocelot is offline
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Really, the whole second act is an emotional minefield. All the above plus the slow motion trainwreck of the Reynolds affair and its fallout ("Burn") and then "Best of Wives, Best of Women"...arrrgh!!! I AM HAVING FEELINGS! EMOTIONS! RANDOM SOBBING!!!!

Last edited by Maggie the Ocelot; 03-22-2016 at 02:39 PM.
  #94  
Old 03-22-2016, 03:52 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
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:: hands Maggie a handkerchief with the initials "AH" stitched into it ::
  #95  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:55 PM
shantih is offline
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Well, I certainly hope you all are proud of yourselves. I have a pile of work to do, including a translation project that is taking me a horrifying amount of time to complete, and what have I done in the past few days? Very little other than play that clip from the Grammys a good 10 times, plus listen to most of the cast album over YouTube, plus play every clip of Hamilton I can find, plus get deeply into the Ham4Ham clips, with special emphasis on the three King Georges lip-synching the Schuyler Sisters song while the actress who plays Angelica lip-synchs Burr's part (The Schuyler Georges).

The songs are running through my mind pretty nigh constantly. I have been known to break into spontaneous raps in my car -- people, I am a short pale middle-aged woman who has no business breaking into spontaneous raps!

I blame you. All of you. And this ache to somehow get ahold of tickets to a show that at the moment only takes place about 5,000 miles from me? Totally your fault.

I just hope you can sleep at night.
  #96  
Old 03-23-2016, 10:46 PM
zombywoof is offline
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For those who can't get enough of the show and the current presidential race check out Hamiltrump (lyrics NSFW).

Last edited by zombywoof; 03-23-2016 at 10:47 PM.
  #97  
Old 04-18-2016, 03:38 PM
JRDelirious is online now
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Hamilton - The Musical


Pulitzer Prize for Drama...

http://www.nypost.com/2016/04/18/ham...rize-for-drama

Only the 9th Musical to get it (including the likes of South Pacific and A Chorus Line).

Last edited by JRDelirious; 04-18-2016 at 03:39 PM.
  #98  
Old 04-18-2016, 05:19 PM
Bijou Drains is offline
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I don't like musicals or rap so other than those 2 things it sounds like I would like it.
  #99  
Old 04-18-2016, 06:35 PM
NAF1138 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
I don't like musicals or rap so other than those 2 things it sounds like I would like it.
Honestly the musicalness will probably give you more trouble than the hip hop. It's more hip hop inspired Broadway than it is really hip hop. It is super musically though. But really really good.
  #100  
Old 04-18-2016, 10:59 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Pulitzer Prize for Drama...

http://www.nypost.com/2016/04/18/ham...rize-for-drama

Only the 9th Musical to get it (including the likes of South Pacific and A Chorus Line).
Good on them!
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