#1301  
Old 05-01-2018, 08:13 AM
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In other news, Man shoots, kills carjacker at Texas Fried Chicken:
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The attempted carjacking victim has been identified as Leon Anthony Ducally. He told deputies Goodman tried to carjack and assault him as he was trying to enter the Texas Fried Chicken at the intersection.

Goodman continued to assault Ducally, so he shot his accused attacker, deputies said.

Ducally has a valid concealed carry permit
DGU with one death. Guy can't even get some fried chicken in the middle of the night.
  #1302  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:45 AM
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Another shooting death to celebrate!
  #1303  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:46 AM
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Yay!
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:01 AM
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All you have to do is declare somebody to be a Bad Guy, and then killing him is not only justified and necessary but actually Positive Gun News.

That's how it works, right?
  #1305  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:35 AM
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All you have to do is declare somebody to be a Bad Guy, and then killing him is not only justified and necessary but actually Positive Gun News.

That's how it works, right?
The guy had his car jacked and was being beaten. Are you suggesting he should have taken further beating instead of defending himself?
  #1306  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:37 AM
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I know you guys think you have a couple of "gotchas", but you don't. When the secret service secures an area, they take control and watch everything that is going on. They also have their own weapons and are ready to use them. Same with courthouses, where armed security is present.
Apparently, armed security being present is not enough to comfort everyone.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...uncil-meetings
  #1307  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:45 AM
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Apparently, armed security being present is not enough to comfort everyone.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...uncil-meetings
You don't recall that "armed security" decided to stay outside during the Parkland school shooting while innocent kids in a "gun free zone" were slaughtered?
  #1308  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:49 AM
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The guy had his car jacked and was being beaten. Are you suggesting he should have taken further beating instead of defending himself?
My objection is to a person rationalizing, even praising, the killing of another human being by declaring him to be a Bad Guy. One man in that incident committed assault and theft, but the other committed homicide. Tell us who is the Bad Guy and why.

Better yet, tell us how to define Positive vs. Negative Gun News in an objective, non-post-facto way.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:54 PM
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You don't recall that "armed security" decided to stay outside during the Parkland school shooting while innocent kids in a "gun free zone" were slaughtered?
You were the one that bought up courthouses.

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Same with courthouses, where armed security is present.
And in any case, at the meetings, there is at least one armed officer, usually more, standing there. They don't need to enter, you don't need to worry about them staying outside. They are standing right there.

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My objection is to a person rationalizing, even praising, the killing of another human being by declaring him to be a Bad Guy. One man in that incident committed assault and theft, but the other committed homicide. Tell us who is the Bad Guy and why.

Better yet, tell us how to define Positive vs. Negative Gun News in an objective, non-post-facto way.
It's easy, the guy who is left standing gets to tell his side of the story. The dead guy doesn't. So, obviously, the guy left standing was the good guy.

We also don't know that this wasn't some guy that approached the car, asking for change, and got shot for scaring the driver. We only have the driver's story, as he remembers and tells it.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:58 PM
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I brought up courthouses because at least they make an effort to have some amount of armed security. Unlike most schools.

But even if a courthouse or school has some security, that doesn't necessarily mean it is enough or effective everywhere in the building on the property.
  #1311  
Old 05-01-2018, 05:23 PM
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Everyone continuing this hijack go back and see previous mod instructions. I don’t have the time now but I’ll later go back and see if any warnings are needed for not following moderator instructions.
  #1312  
Old 05-02-2018, 10:52 AM
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In other news, Women armed with gun, camera confront would-be burglar at residence
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According to the report, the female homeowner saw that a window was broken when she arrived at her home in the 3400 block of SE 115th Street in Belleview. She called her sister, who arrived with a firearm for protection, the report states.
The women then ordered Stone to come out of the house and took photos of him, the report says. Stone told the women that he had chased someone into the house who had stolen his dirt bike, then grabbed his bookbag and ran into a nearby woods.
DGU with no injuries. Given the changing and implausible stories offered by the perpetrator, I'm going to hazard a guess that alcohol or other controlled substances were involved.
  #1313  
Old 05-02-2018, 11:02 AM
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Serious question, how is this defensive gun use?
  #1314  
Old 05-02-2018, 11:05 AM
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Serious question, how is this defensive gun use?
Conjecture, of course, but the intruder might not have been so cooperative in following orders to come out of the house, nor running away, if the women didn't have a gun.
  #1315  
Old 05-02-2018, 11:42 AM
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When was the 911 call placed?
  #1316  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:28 PM
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Conjecture, of course, but the intruder might not have been so cooperative in following orders to come out of the house, nor running away, if the women didn't have a gun.
Sure, but ordering someone to do something at gun point seems more like Offensive Gun Use.
  #1317  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:39 PM
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Sure, but ordering someone to do something at gun point seems more like Offensive Gun Use.
Perhaps from the standpoint of someone who broke a window and went into someone else's house. Is that the side you want to be on?

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ElvisL1ves When was the 911 call placed?
Well, they did at some point, because the Sheriff's department found him. I don't know anything about where this happened, but there are LOTS of places in the US where it will take a long time for police to respond to a call.
  #1318  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:44 PM
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Perhaps from the standpoint of someone who broke a window and went into someone else's house. Is that the side you want to be on?
Not really. But the woman wasn't in the house to defend herself against the intruder. She didn't need defending against anything, since she wasn't even home when the guy broke in.
  #1319  
Old 05-02-2018, 12:45 PM
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The Villages is a sprawling high-income retirement community, much of which bans residents under 55, but all of which has a strongly conservative atmosphere. Any delay in getting to the scene would be caused by the cops having to maneuver around all the golf carts driven by hard-of-hearing residents. But it does look like this woman called her sister to come with her gun before she called the sheriff to come with his, doesn't it?
  #1320  
Old 05-07-2018, 08:41 PM
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70-Year-Old Woman Shoots Burglar During Home Invasion

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Around 4:30 a.m. she heard someone, who turned out to be a 43-year-old man, breaking in her back window.

“Next thing I know I could tell he was inside my house and he was running up the steps,” says Maxine Thompson.

...

She’s got bullet holes and blood in her home –but her attacker made out worse.
When seconds count, police are minutes away.
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  #1321  
Old 05-12-2018, 05:19 AM
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Oklahoma governor vetoes gun carry bill in defeat for NRA
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Oklahoma's Republican Gov. Mary Fallin vetoed a bill late Friday that would have authorized adults to carry firearms without a permit or training, dealing a rare defeat to the National Rifle Association in a conservative state.

The veto comes after opposition from the business community and law enforcement authorities, including top officials with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation who have said it could erode public safety.
  #1322  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:50 AM
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Gunman killed by armed bystander after injuring 2 in Oklahoma City restaurant shooting

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A bystander shot and killed an armed man who walked into an Oklahoma City restaurant and began shooting Thursday evening, according to police.

The incident happened at Louie’s Grill & Bar, located along the shore of Lake Hefner, police said.

Two people were shot and one was injured while running from the scene, according to KFOR. The two who suffered gunshot wounds have been taken to the hospital with “serious injuries” but are expected to survive, police said.

When the suspect walked outside, “a bystander with a pistol” confronted him and fatally shot him, police tweeted.
  #1323  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:54 AM
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Louie’s Grill & Bar??

WTF? It's supposed to be Bar & Grill. Everyone knows that.
  #1324  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:38 PM
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Louie’s Grill & Bar??

WTF? It's supposed to be Bar & Grill. Everyone knows that.
Oklahoma, they talk funny next door.
  #1325  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:42 PM
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Oklahoma, they talk funny next door.
"bar & grill" 49 million hits on Google.
"grill & bar" 12 million hits on Google.

I thought it would be waaay more of a difference.
  #1326  
Old 05-25-2018, 12:53 PM
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Gunman killed by armed bystander after injuring 2 in Oklahoma City restaurant shooting
Quote:

When the suspect walked outside, “a bystander with a pistol” confronted him and fatally shot him, police tweeted.
So it was not a DGU because the shooter was already done and leaving the scene, AFAWCT.
  #1327  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:02 PM
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So it was not a DGU because the shooter was already done and leaving the scene, AFAWCT.
You're certain that his mayhem was finished? And you're certain he didn't make a threatening move toward anyone as he left the restaurant?
  #1328  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:24 PM
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You're certain that his mayhem was finished? And you're certain he didn't make a threatening move toward anyone as he left the restaurant?
No, I am not certain about anything. Details are absent and there will probably be little else written about this story. But it is not obvious that this should be called a DGU by default (“the bystander confronted the gunman”, not the opposite), or that it even qualifies as “Positive Gun News”, since the gunman was killed, making police investigation somewhat more difficult.
  #1329  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:26 PM
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The bad guy was firing at people as they ran away?
  #1330  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:51 PM
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You're certain that his mayhem was finished? And you're certain he didn't make a threatening move toward anyone as he left the restaurant?
If he made a threatening move towards anyone as he left the restaurant, it still wouldn't be a DGU, as he was not stopped until after he had left the restaurant. If he had made a threat to someone, then he would have simply carried it out, as he did the other people that he shot.
  #1331  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:08 PM
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The father of one of the people shot seems to think this qualifies as positive.
  #1332  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:21 PM
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Walk a mile in the shoes and all that.
A bad guy down is a good thing no matter how you put letters on the event.
  #1333  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:53 PM
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How do we know the guy who shot two guys at the bar wasn't a good guy with a gun using his gun defensively against two bad guys, and then when he left the bar he was shot and killed by a bad guy with a gun?

There does seem to be a rush to anoint the survivors as the good guys. Dead men tell no tales.
  #1334  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:58 PM
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No, as long as we call the dead one “the bad guy”, we can dust of our hands and call it a day. Why make things complicated?
  #1335  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:28 PM
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How do we know the guy who shot two guys at the bar wasn't a good guy with a gun using his gun defensively against two bad guys, and then when he left the bar he was shot and killed by a bad guy with a gun?

There does seem to be a rush to anoint the survivors as the good guys. Dead men tell no tales.
I wondered about that. The bad guy reportedly shot at people running away. I think the police will figure that out. They don't like citizens carrying guns around and shooting people.
  #1336  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:26 PM
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No, I am not certain about anything. Details are absent and there will probably be little else written about this story. But it is not obvious that this should be called a DGU by default (“the bystander confronted the gunman”, not the opposite), or that it even qualifies as “Positive Gun News”, since the gunman was killed, making police investigation somewhat more difficult.
Quote:
Not one, but two men ran to their respective cars to grab their guns when a shooter opened fire at an Oklahoma City restaurant Thursday.

Police Capt. Bo Matthews said today that both of those men shot suspect Alexander C. Tilghman on Thursday. Tilghman died as a result of those gunshots.

...

Immediately after the shooting, Matthews told the media that a single civilian shot the suspect, but upon further investigation, it was determined that two men both shot the suspect. The two men who shot Tilghman "were not carrying their firearms on them, they [their firearms] were in their vehicles," Matthews said today.

When asked what he would call Nazario and Whittle, Matthew described them as "two people that stopped a very tragic situation from going any further."

During the news conference today, Matthews wouldn't directly call them "heroes" but said that it was "a great terminology" for the media to use.

"You can say they're heroes, which is a very good thing to say," Matthews said.
Sounds like the two bystanders did a bang up job.
  #1337  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:38 PM
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I have a fear of someone who doesn't know what they are doing shooting bystanders in that kind of situation.
  #1338  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:43 PM
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I have a fear of someone who doesn't know what they are doing shooting bystanders in that kind of situation.
ISTR an incident where a hero wrestled a gun away from a bad guy just as the police were arriving and got shot for his efforts because the police saw that he was the guy with the gun.
  #1339  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:55 PM
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ISTR an incident where a hero wrestled a gun away from a bad guy just as the police were arriving and got shot for his efforts because the police saw that he was the guy with the gun.
I read of a Black guy who took a rifle away from a guy during a robbery, and he threw it over the counter. He was a prime candidate to be shot by the police.
  #1340  
Old 05-26-2018, 03:20 PM
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For those too busy to click links, the shooter injured two teenage girls and an adult. It was apparently random and the attacker was definitely mentally ill. The armed citizens who shot him had an easy job identifying him as he was carrying the weapon openly and had on eye and ear protection commonly used at gun ranges. Both of them went to vehicles to retrieve their firearms and went to confront the shooter. Reportedly, they first tried to convince him to drop his weapon before shooting him.
  #1341  
Old 05-26-2018, 07:07 PM
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I'm glad that the Good Guys didn't shoot each other. They knew what they were doing.
  #1342  
Old 05-26-2018, 07:28 PM
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For those too busy to click links, the shooter injured two teenage girls and an adult. It was apparently random and the attacker was definitely mentally ill.
For those of you not interested in actually reading links,

Quote:
Matthews said the police "have no records of anybody making any other reports" on Tilghman in their system, though he did have a record of a 2003 arrest for domestic assault and battery from when he was 13 years old.

Matthews said that police have not found any record of Tilghman having mental health issues, though said that if someone is to commit "an act like this, you'd have to assume that he probably had a little bit of mental illness."
“Definitely mentally ill” does not quite sound accurate.
  #1343  
Old 05-27-2018, 10:54 AM
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For those of you not interested in actually reading links,



“Definitely mentally ill” does not quite sound accurate.
Then please refer to:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ons/645249002/

https://newsok.com/article/5596021/p...ended-shooting

The previous quote was much earlier in the investigation.

Last edited by Anglachel; 05-27-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  #1344  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:02 PM
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This situation was a bit unusual. It occurred moments after the shooter had left the scene. He was still armed and wearing hearing/eye protection.

Imho it's reasonable to assume this shooter would have harmed other people.

I'm thankful there were armed citizens that stopped him.

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-27-2018 at 12:04 PM.
  #1345  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:08 PM
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So you are saying that shooting a crazy person who had a gun is a good thing because, well, there is just not much we can do about keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people?
  #1346  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:43 PM
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So you are saying that shooting a crazy person who had a gun is a good thing because, well, there is just not much we can do about keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people?
Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don't see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.
  #1347  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:00 PM
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Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don't see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.
Tranquilizer darts, tasers, or other forms of non-lethal (or less lethal anyway) weapons deployed by drones may not be terrible.

Though, had the people simply tackled him, rather than retreating to their cars to get their guns first, he would have had less time to pose a danger to others, and he would more likely to be alive today to answer for what he did.
  #1348  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:22 PM
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Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don't see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.
You see “shooting a crazy person who had a gun” as a net positive, because you are looking at the phrase as a whole. And I do not disagree that stopping him was a good thing. But I see the second half of the phrase, “a crazy person who had a gun” and want to know how that happened and what we can do to make it happen less.

Last edited by eschereal; 05-27-2018 at 01:22 PM.
  #1349  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:32 PM
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Though, had the people simply tackled him, rather than retreating to their cars to get their guns first, he would have had less time to pose a danger to others, and he would more likely to be alive today to answer for what he did.
That's the Black guy I mentioned who threw the weapon behind a counter.
I takes a braver guy than I to tackle a guy who is shooting people.
  #1350  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:38 PM
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That's the Black guy I mentioned who threw the weapon behind a counter.
I takes a braver guy than I to tackle a guy who is shooting people.
It's not the weapon in your hand, but the bravery in your heart that truly saves the day.
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