Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-19-2018, 02:45 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 14,963
Donald Trump is a Punk

In the mid-1970s, a thitherto ignored genre of rock bands with a primitive, rowdy, rebellious bent struck a chord with their target audiences and gained worldwide exposure. By and large the musical perpetrators of “punk” rock were just youths, very few if any of whom realistically saw themselves as part of a bigger picture of musical reform/rejuvenation, who simply wanted to play the sort of music they wanted to hear flavored with their own uncensored intensity and emotion. The rise of Punk I believe had less to do with the product, which had been around in some form since at least The Kinks in 1964 or even Elvis ten years prior, than with the market. Although popular bands were putting out some magnificent work in the mid-70s, much of it lacked any real bite reflective of the harsh realities of life facing kids who just saw their older siblings drafted and killed in Vietnam (for example), or who were poised to enter the work force as toilet cleaners in a world beset by economic hardships. The music, while great, wasn’t speaking to their souls. (Not to minimize the concurrent rise of hip hop—I just think its impact, while incredibly important on modern efforts, was differently oriented.)

To appreciate punk rock sometimes requires a temporal and aesthetic adjustment. Never Mind The Bollocks is not exactly a timeless work but it has its allure, especially if the only thing being served over the radio is Captain & Tennille’s “Love Will Keep Us Together” and Wings’ “Silly Love Songs” (Billboard #1 in 1975 & 1976, respectively). At some point, the audience has had enough with the increasingly corporate and deliberately inoffensive product and staggers out into the storm in search of vitamins. The impact of punk on rock music is as undeniable as the impact of a certain family of monkeys abandoning the jungle for life on the savannah. There was much gnashing of hair and rending of teeth as it was officially born, but it was an important step in making it ok for an average kid to buck the mainstream.

So then: Donald Trump. Untalented as a diplomat, obnoxious as a human being, widely despised within his own political party, and held in even lower esteem by others. Everything he does can be seen as an attempt to deliberately deconstruct and burn off the authority of the federal government. Calculating? Probably no more so than the impact a handful of smackheads in 1975 London were calculating in reviving the rebellious spirit of rock n roll (which is to say: not).

So. What are your thoughts on #45 as the Johnny Rotten or Dee Dee Ramone of American politics?
And, assuming we can make the best of the weaknesses candidate/president Trump has shown us to be present in our current political system, what major changes do you believe to be realistic that, maybe 10 years ago, would have been preposterous? And no need to limit this to political mechanics. As this “growth opportunity” unfolds before us, it is becoming clear we all need to reevaluate our consumption of social media and even mainstream media news. How do we grow socially?
__________________
Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.
  #2  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:27 PM
gigi gigi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Flatlander in NH
Posts: 25,528
When Punk musicians have the power to make life worse for millions of people, and follow through on that power, then it's an apt comparison.
  #3  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:31 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,304
Ivanka Trump says she went through a punk phase, which I'm guessing means she dyed her hair blue for a week and a half and bought a Good Charlotte CD.
  #4  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:45 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,234
I think the OP is recycling old talking points.

Here's what I said last year about this same notion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
I think that's a really fucking stupid comparison.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-19-2018 at 04:46 PM.
  #5  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:55 PM
kunilou's Avatar
kunilou kunilou is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 24,210
Which one was the billionaire real estate mogul/attention whore - Johnny Rotten or Dee Dee Ramone?
  #6  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:57 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,304
Punk was raw and uncouth, Donald Trump is raw and uncouth, therefore Donald Trump is punk rock.

A cat has four legs, a table has four legs, therefore a cat is a table.

I forget the name for this invalid syllogism.
  #7  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:59 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 14,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
I think the OP is recycling old talking points.
Was unaware, thanks for the link. So we should look for nothing positive or insightful to come from this uncomfortable presidency. We simply will not learn and grow from it. Seems a little dark to me.
__________________
Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.
  #8  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:09 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Nekkid Pueblo
Posts: 20,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad View Post
Was unaware, thanks for the link. So we should look for nothing positive or insightful to come from this uncomfortable presidency. We simply will not learn and grow from it. Seems a little dark to me.
Hopefully, we learn not to elect a similar dipshit in the future.
  #9  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:13 PM
gigi gigi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Flatlander in NH
Posts: 25,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by cochrane View Post
Hopefully, we learn not to elect a similar dipshit in the future.
We won't have to. After he is re-elected, Trump will change the rules and make himself lifetime king. He's got "all the best people" working on how to extend his lifetime.
  #10  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:21 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad View Post
Was unaware, thanks for the link. So we should look for nothing positive or insightful to come from this uncomfortable presidency. We simply will not learn and grow from it. Seems a little dark to me.
Thanks for letting us know your conclusion; I know appreciate all the information I was able to glean from your post.
  #11  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:23 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Nekkid Pueblo
Posts: 20,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
We won't have to. After he is re-elected, Trump will change the rules and make himself lifetime king. He's got "all the best people" working on how to extend his lifetime.
I thought Obama tried to do that. It must have been that birth certificate thing.
  #12  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:27 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 14,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Thanks for letting us know your conclusion; I know appreciate all the information I was able to glean from your post.
You have been likewise insightful. Thank you for a pleasant exchange.
__________________
Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.
  #13  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:39 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,713
Many punks had an ethos: that the system needed to be torn down as a path to freedom and social justice. Like the Sex Pistols raised against the monarchy because of its oppression of the working classes, and the Clash wrote intensely political songs criticizing capitalist power.

Trump does have the “tear it down” message, but he fundamentally lacks any purpose for it except to maximize his own self-interest.

To put it another way, the fucked up terrible musician and junkie Sid Vicious had more empathy for the plight of everyday people than Donald Trump ever did. Yes, I’m saying that Sid Vicious is Mother Theresa compared to the President.

Last edited by Ravenman; 02-19-2018 at 06:39 PM.
  #14  
Old 02-19-2018, 09:56 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 15,517
OTOH if we instead go on and use the non-music definition of "punk"...

Last edited by JRDelirious; 02-19-2018 at 09:56 PM.
  #15  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:27 PM
Mr. Miskatonic's Avatar
Mr. Miskatonic Mr. Miskatonic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Under a pile of books
Posts: 6,620
Not until he dresses like Minnie Pearl.
__________________
"When you kill the Morlocks, the Eloi tend to die too"
  #16  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:49 PM
enipla enipla is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 13,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
To put it another way, the fucked up terrible musician and junkie Sid Vicious had more empathy for the plight of everyday people than Donald Trump ever did. Yes, I’m saying that Sid Vicious is Mother Theresa compared to the President.
The punk era surrounded me for a while. I was in downtown Denver in the late 70's early 80's. I was in my early 20's. I still like The Flying Lizards, though they might not quite be 'punk rock'. Had one friend that was really into the music. Oddly, he was white collar worker in law.

trump is just a simple minded bully. Take away his narcissism, racism and misogyny, and that's what you have. Punk rock is way, way to deep for trump to understand.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #17  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:08 PM
HipGnosis HipGnosis is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dairyland 'burbs
Posts: 480
I see him more as a spoiled brat than a punk.
Do you know how much money a $Million was when he got that from his dad?!?!?
  #18  
Old 02-20-2018, 07:36 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,489
Seems as fitting a place as any:

Trump's not fit to shovel shit from one place to another!
Friggin' in the rigging,
Friggin' in the rigging...
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #19  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:28 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Seems as fitting a place as any:

Trump's not fit to shovel shit from one place to another!
Friggin' in the rigging,
Friggin' in the rigging...
And security guards trailed us into the White House
So we asked for Mojo Nixon
They said “He don’t work here”
We said “If you don’t got Mojo Nixon then your Administration could use some fixin’!”
  #20  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:10 AM
John DiFool's Avatar
John DiFool John DiFool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 18,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
Punk was raw and uncouth, Donald Trump is raw and uncouth, therefore Donald Trump is punk rock.
He's a Pet Rock.
  #21  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:55 AM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 14,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
OTOH if we instead go on and use the non-music definition of "punk"...
I think you're referring to the "brat" definition, and I wholeheartedly agree. But I was suggesting exactly this with something else in mind. I was thinking of Trump more as a force of nature that creates opportunities for good things to happen, in spite of himself or his intentions. He is a Melkor, intending to sing discord into creation, but instead inadvertently inspires even greater creation from his adversaries.

Aaaand now I've got and image of Melkor wearing tattered leather and forcing a giant safety pin through his cheek.
__________________
Y'all are just too damned serious. Lighten up.
  #22  
Old 02-20-2018, 12:26 PM
enipla enipla is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 13,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rad View Post
I think you're referring to the "brat" definition, and I wholeheartedly agree. But I was suggesting exactly this with something else in mind. I was thinking of Trump more as a force of nature that creates opportunities for good things to happen, in spite of himself or his intentions. He is a Melkor, intending to sing discord into creation, but instead inadvertently inspires even greater creation from his adversaries.

Aaaand now I've got and image of Melkor wearing tattered leather and forcing a giant safety pin through his cheek.
So you think that trump being trump, is going to make good people rise up to make sure this never happens again? History doesn't support that. We continue to create megalomaniacs and assholes. Some are smarter than others. On this go round, at least we have a stupid one.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #23  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:16 PM
drad dog's Avatar
drad dog drad dog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,764
Hunter Thompson had the punk rock candidacy. The fulcrum the OP is based on is just too strained.

donald does represent incoherent, monomaniacal self interest in the form of pathological lying. That's not punk to me. People having unintended positive effects, which are seperate from their personhood, doesn't sound indentifiably punk.
  #24  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:13 PM
gigi gigi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Flatlander in NH
Posts: 25,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Seems as fitting a place as any:

Trump's not fit to shovel shit from one place to another!
As I mentioned in another thread, ... but I'd enjoy seeing him have to try.
  #25  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:13 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Many punks had an ethos: that the system needed to be torn down as a path to freedom and social justice. Like the Sex Pistols raised against the monarchy because of its oppression of the working classes, and the Clash wrote intensely political songs criticizing capitalist power.
The Sex Pistols were a marketing gimmick Malcolm Mclaren used to sell S&M themed fashion. None of them were sober long enough to form a political ethos.

The Clash were the real deal, though.
  #26  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:31 PM
Lamoral Lamoral is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
OTOH if we instead go on and use the non-music definition of "punk"...
The one that pertains to prison; that's the one I had in mind.
  #27  
Old 02-20-2018, 05:14 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 15,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post
As I mentioned in another thread, ... but I'd enjoy seeing him have to try.


Don’t you know, he’s got great shovels, the best shovels.
  #28  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:15 PM
Voyager's Avatar
Voyager Voyager is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 44,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by John DiFool View Post
He's a Pet Rock.
Please. My pet rock never lied, and it never tried to take away anyone's insurance.
It also had a longer attention span.
  #29  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:17 PM
gigi gigi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Flatlander in NH
Posts: 25,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Please. My pet rock never lied, and it never tried to take away anyone's insurance.
It also had a longer attention span.
And my pet rock is proud to be bald.

Last edited by gigi; 02-20-2018 at 06:17 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017