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Old 01-23-2018, 10:50 AM
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Can someone break down this whole Nunes Memo thing?

Because all I'm hearing is the noise. Can someone lay out the basics of this for me?

So, Nunes has a memo. (Um, I've got a whole stack of memos on my desk.)

Start from the who what when where, please?

The noise is all about "IT'S EXPLOSIVE! IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE!"

Then there is the noise about "RELEASE THE MEMO!" But no, they are not going to release it, they're only going to tell you that "IT'S EXPLOSIVE!" rinse and repeat. BUT MAYBE THEY ARE GOING TO RELEASE IT! But maybe not!

As I said, all I'm hearing is the noise.

Thanks.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:23 AM
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The story, in brief, is that Nunes and a bunch of Rpublicans on the House Intelligence Committee had a secret working group (which they didn't invite Democrats to) to investigate whether the FBI tried to interfere in the 2016 election to get Hillary elected. The working group then wrote a memo that Nunes is saying is proof that the FBI and the Obama Justice Department did bad things for Hillary, but he won't release the memo or give it to the Justice Department because the FBI and Justice Department is full of Deep State people who hate Trump and will try to bury it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:31 AM
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The story, in brief, is that Nunes and a bunch of Rpublicans on the House Intelligence Committee had a secret working group (which they didn't invite Democrats to) to investigate whether the FBI tried to interfere in the 2016 election to get Hillary elected. The working group then wrote a memo that Nunes is saying is proof that the FBI and the Obama Justice Department did bad things for Hillary, but he won't release the memo or give it to the Justice Department because the FBI and Justice Department is full of Deep State people who hate Trump and will try to bury it.
And there's a lot of noise around the "Release the Memo" hashtag because it's being pushed to the top of the Twitter Charts by Russian bots.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:36 AM
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So Nunes et. al. wrote a memo, and then said "I have a memo!" So, why wouldn't he just present the memo to the world? What's the reasoning behind "I have a memo, but I'm not gonna show it to you"?
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:37 AM
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"I have here in my hand a list of 205óa list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department." - Joseph McCarthy
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:41 AM
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We already know Clinton's lawyers paid for the Russian intel dossier. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your POV, money usually leaves a fairly distinct trail.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:47 AM
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We already know Clinton's lawyers paid for the Russian intel dossier. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your POV, money usually leaves a fairly distinct trail.
And how is this pertinent?
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:52 AM
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And how is this pertinent?
Distraction!
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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And how is this pertinent?
I thought we were trying to untangle some massive web of political, criminal deception?
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:16 PM
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I thought we were trying to untangle some massive web of political, criminal deception?
No-The topic is the Nunes memo.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:20 PM
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So Nunes et. al. wrote a memo, and then said "I have a memo!" So, why wouldn't he just present the memo to the world? What's the reasoning behind "I have a memo, but I'm not gonna show it to you"?
Supposedly, it contains a bunch of classified information in it.

(It is also, apparently, only four pages long and is almost certainly a worse version on the same subject that Inspector General Michael Horowitz has been investigating since January of last year. To the extent that there's value in that investigation, it's better to wait for the real version.)

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-23-2018 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:30 PM
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No-The topic is the Nunes memo.
And you believe this is not related?
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:38 PM
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Buttery mails.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:44 PM
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And you believe this is not related?
It's irrelevant. Sessions had to recuse himself from the Russia investigation because he was part of the Trump campaign. Devin Nunes should also be conflicted out of taking part of any investiation regarding Russia, as he was on the executive committee for the Trump transition team.

What we see is that Jeff Sessions is upholding higher ethical standards than Nunes and the entire Republican House Leadership, which is a shocking thing of anyone stopped to think about it for a second.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:45 PM
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https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...gift-for-Trump

Daily Kos has a fairly concise breakdown of the basics. Liberal cooties abound, of course, but you already know that. One angle I hadn't seen before or thought of is how this plays into Il Douche's hopes to remove the top FBI and replace with more reasonable and compliant.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:01 PM
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The fact that they've refused to show this memo to the FBI, but Alex Jones now says he has a copy tells you all that you need to know.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:14 PM
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If the FBI was trying to get Hillary elected why did they do such a craptastically terrible job at it? Comey announcing in late October that Hillary was being investigated again was part of some master plan to get her elected? The whole theory makes no sense except to divert attention away from the Trump campaign shenanigans and to delegitimize the FBI.

Also the Russian dossier was originally paid for by Republicans, before the Dems coughed up for it, so it's doubly irrelevant.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...gift-for-Trump

Daily Kos has a fairly concise breakdown of the basics. Liberal cooties abound, of course, but you already know that. One angle I hadn't seen before or thought of is how this plays into Il Douche's hopes to remove the top FBI and replace with more reasonable and compliant.
Thank you, that helps lay out some of the moving parts. And it does also illuminate where BeenJammin's comments are coming from.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:31 PM
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And it does also illuminate where BeenJammin's comments are coming from.
I'm guessing a proxy server somewhere in metropolitan Minsk.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:51 PM
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I'm guessing a proxy server somewhere in metropolitan Minsk.
Knock it off. Accusations of trolling are not permitted in this forum and this is riding the line.

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Old 01-23-2018, 01:54 PM
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"I have here in my hand a list of 205óa list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department." - Joseph McCarthy
"There are exactly 57 card-carrying members of the Communist Party in the Department of Defense at this time!" - Senator John Yerkes Iselin
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:01 PM
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It's also generally believed that the memo alleges politicization of FISA, but of course Nunes announced the memo just days after voting to renew FISA without any significant oversight changes. That seems like decent evidence that he doesn't give the evidence in it much credence either.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:01 PM
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What's the reasoning behind "I have a memo, but I'm not gonna show it to you"?
The same reason you don't show the monster in a horror film. What people imagine is always scarier than the real thing.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:55 PM
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I think is is to be released once it has been transcribed from the original crayon.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:54 PM
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It takes time to get the classified redactions approved. References to the source material (which is really what this is all about) are probably extremely sensitive.

...and/or the downgrade to whatever level they decide to "release" it at, depending on exactly who the recipients are.

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Old 01-23-2018, 05:54 PM
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In order to discredit the FBI and Robert Mueller, Nunes and some republicans wrote a memo saying that the FBI is corrupt and Obama spied.

The GOP controls congress. They can release their memo that they wrote anytime they want. They also refuse to share the memo with the justice department, since it isn't a valid investigation. It is a talking point designed to make the public not trust law enforcement.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:03 PM
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I think elucidator said it best:

"The FBI is in cahoots with a plot to bring down a right-wing authoritarian administration.

You can take me now, Lord. Seen it all."
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:06 PM
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It is a talking point designed to make the public not trust law enforcement.
That's a rather odd hypothesis, considering Trump ran as the "law-and-order" candidate, now with all the immigration enforcement and illicit drug crackdowns.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:08 PM
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The FBI is in cahoots with a plot to bring down a right-wing authoritarian administration.
Fixed it for ya:

The FBI is in cahoots with a plot to prevent a right-wing authoritarian administration.[
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:10 PM
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They should just have it turn up on a DNC email server and be done with it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:11 PM
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That's a rather odd hypothesis, considering Trump ran as the "law-and-order" candidate, now with all the immigration enforcement and illicit drug crackdowns.
When the right talks about 'law and order' it is a dog whistle for letting the police corral and brutalize scary non-whites. It has nothing to do with actual law and order (Trump is possibly the most criminal president we've ever had).
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:54 PM
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That's a rather odd hypothesis, considering Trump ran as the "law-and-order" candidate, now with all the immigration enforcement and illicit drug crackdowns.
Of course Trump supports police when they go after brown and black people. He just doesnít like them when they go after white collar criminals (emphasis on the ďwhiteĒ).
  #33  
Old 01-23-2018, 07:44 PM
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It's also generally believed that the memo alleges politicization of FISA, but of course Nunes announced the memo just days after voting to renew FISA without any significant oversight changes. That seems like decent evidence that he doesn't give the evidence in it much credence either.
I don’t think Nunes had seen the memo when the FISA vote happened. Here’s what I posted in another thread on the subject

.....My theory is completely different. I think Trump went ballistic when the House Intelligence Committee summoned Hope Hicks for an interview. I think this action crossed a Trumpian “red line”. And I think Trump set his sights on his toady Nunes.

Nunes, desperately trying to appease Trump, agreed to all his demands. The interview with Hicks was postponed. But I think the White House also gave him this memo and demanded that he put his name on it
Kind of a replay of what happened last year. But these people don’t learn. This is Stupid Watergate.

And I think once it’s released, it will become blindingly obvious who wrote the memo. My guess is Steven Miller. And my guess is he didn’t make any attempt to alter his style and that he used the same phrases and rhetoric that were found in the other memos and speeches he’s written.

And the press will realize this and it will be a scandal for about 2 days until someone does something even dumber. Because this is Stupid Watergate......

And I just want to add, these unmasking scandals are stupid. Because unmasking happens all the time, it’s pretty routine and it happens at a much lower level than Obama or even Susan Rice. Do you think if an American was caught on tape making unscrupulous deals with a foreign national that the agents would let that slide? Of course, they’re going to find out who it is. It’s SOP.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-23-2018 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:09 PM
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Fixed it for ya:

The FBI is in cahoots with a plot to prevent a right-wing authoritarian administration.[
That train left the station a year ago.
  #35  
Old 01-23-2018, 08:17 PM
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I donít think Nunes had seen the memo when the FISA vote happened. Hereís what I posted in another thread on the subject

.....My theory is completely different. I think Trump went ballistic when the House Intelligence Committee summoned Hope Hicks for an interview. I think this action crossed a Trumpian ďred lineĒ. And I think Trump set his sights on his toady Nunes.

Nunes, desperately trying to appease Trump, agreed to all his demands. The interview with Hicks was postponed. But I think the White House also gave him this memo and demanded that he put his name on it
Kind of a replay of what happened last year. But these people donít learn. This is Stupid Watergate.

And I think once itís released, it will become blindingly obvious who wrote the memo. My guess is Steven Miller. And my guess is he didnít make any attempt to alter his style and that he used the same phrases and rhetoric that were found in the other memos and speeches heís written.

And the press will realize this and it will be a scandal for about 2 days until someone does something even dumber. Because this is Stupid Watergate......

And I just want to add, these unmasking scandals are stupid. Because unmasking happens all the time, itís pretty routine and it happens at a much lower level than Obama or even Susan Rice. Do you think if an American was caught on tape making unscrupulous deals with a foreign national that the agents would let that slide? Of course, theyíre going to find out who it is. Itís SOP.
It is possible, though I just read one report saying that Nunes' staff prepared it. And, more importantly, so long as Nunes says that he wrote it, the fact that he voted for 702 is a pretty useful metric to hold against the believability of the memo.
  #36  
Old 01-23-2018, 08:32 PM
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We already know Clinton's lawyers paid for the Russian intel dossier. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your POV, money usually leaves a fairly distinct trail.
Am I missing something here or is paying for oppo research illegal and I don't know it? Seems to me that if you're paying for something that you'd want it to be true. I mean, anybody can just make shit up, am I right?
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:43 PM
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Am I missing something here or is paying for oppo research illegal and I don't know it?
I think the White House theory is that Hillary got information from someone who got it from someone that ultimately got it from some Russians so thatís THREE times as much collusion as getting info directly from the Russians would be. But the last one isnít collusion at all. Just talking .Maybe about adoptions. or something.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-23-2018 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:46 PM
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Am I missing something here or is paying for oppo research illegal and I don't know it? Seems to me that if you're paying for something that you'd want it to be true. I mean, anybody can just make shit up, am I right?
There is nothing wrong with contracting and paying for opposition research. It's commonly done.

What is illegal is when you use the fruits of your opposition research that flow from illegal sources and/or solicit illegal acts to further your own objectives.

There's a massive difference between discovering illegal activity as a result of your oppo research, which you then refer to the FBI for appropriate action, v. accepting information that is offered from a foreign source with the exclamation, "I love it!" and then using this illegally-obtained information to subvert an election in your favor.

And you've squarely put your thumb on the Steele dossier dealio. The issue isn't what the dossier alleges. The issue is how much of it is true. As it turns out based on independent investigation of the FBI, looks like a lot of it is true.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:54 AM
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So Nunes et. al. wrote a memo, and then said "I have a memo!" So, why wouldn't he just present the memo to the world? What's the reasoning behind "I have a memo, but I'm not gonna show it to you"?
"I know something you don't know...."

Just like kids on a kindergarten playground.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:27 AM
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That's a rather odd hypothesis, considering Trump ran as the "law-and-order" candidate, now with all the immigration enforcement and illicit drug crackdowns.
He also ran as a guy that was going to have Mexico fund a giant wall. He's sometimes hard to trust.
As far as the memo goes, I don't care what a bunch of Republicans determined by themselves in an "investigation".

Last edited by bobot; 01-24-2018 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:44 AM
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The story, in brief, is that Nunes and a bunch of Rpublicans on the House Intelligence Committee had a secret working group (which they didn't invite Democrats to) to investigate whether the FBI tried to interfere in the 2016 election to get Hillary elected.
So let me get this straight: prominent Republicans claim that the FBI is biased based on a text referring in jest to a secret exclusive committee, and so prominent Republicans investigate it with an actual secret exclusive committee?
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:17 AM
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The story, in brief, is that Nunes and a bunch of Rpublicans on the House Intelligence Committee had a secret working group (which they didn't invite Democrats to) to investigate whether the FBI tried to interfere in the 2016 election to get Hillary elected. The working group then wrote a memo that Nunes is saying is proof that the FBI and the Obama Justice Department did bad things for Hillary, but he won't release the memo or give it to the Justice Department because the FBI and Justice Department is full of Deep State people who hate Trump and will try to bury it.
I don't think this is accurate.

Nunes wants to release the memo but the DOJ is opposed to releasing it because it contains classified info. It's thought that Trump will possibly overrule those DOJ people.

And Nunes didn't give it to the FBI and DOJ upfront because it didn't contain anything they didn't already know. (My impression is that the main source for all the info is not any independent detective work by Nunes, but rather things that they were told by the leaders of these various agencies when testifying before his committee. But even if that's not correct, it's being claimed at any rate that the bulk of this was things which were discussed with these leaders at those hearings.) The memo is alleged to be "explosive" from the perspective of the general public, but not to the leaders of these agencies.
  #43  
Old 01-26-2018, 11:24 AM
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I don't think this is accurate.

Nunes wants to release the memo but the DOJ is opposed to releasing it because it contains classified info. It's thought that Trump will possibly overrule those DOJ people.

And Nunes didn't give it to the FBI and DOJ upfront because it didn't contain anything they didn't already know. (My impression is that the main source for all the info is not any independent detective work by Nunes, but rather things that they were told by the leaders of these various agencies when testifying before his committee. But even if that's not correct, it's being claimed at any rate that the bulk of this was things which were discussed with these leaders at those hearings.) The memo is alleged to be "explosive" from the perspective of the general public, but not to the leaders of these agencies.
And where did this version come from?
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:27 AM
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Sarah Sanders.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:35 AM
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And where did this version come from?
It's what I've read in MSM sources. But in looking around a bit, I can't find it. So retract that until I have time to look further or until more info gets published.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:36 AM
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And Nunes didn't give it to the FBI and DOJ upfront because it didn't contain anything they didn't already know.
And why did he refuse to show it to Richard Burr?
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:47 AM
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BTW, FWIW, my guess - based on comments from the various players who have seen the memo - is that there will be some disquieting things revealed in the memo (which may require some footwork by opponents) but nothing game changing.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:51 AM
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BTW, FWIW, my guess - based on comments from the various players who have seen the memo - is that there will be some disquieting things revealed in the memo (which may require some footwork by opponents) but nothing game changing.
The people that have seen the memo tend to be the type of people that would sow discord to further a cause. Not really a reliable source of information.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:56 AM
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That would include the entire House of Representatives, apparently.

Perhaps so, but within the House there are more partisan people and more sober and thoughtful ones.
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:01 PM
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BTW, FWIW, my guess - based on comments from the various players who have seen the memo - is that there will be some disquieting things revealed in the memo (which may require some footwork by opponents) but nothing game changing.
Why did Paul Ryan allow himself to be a signatory to the DoJ letter asking for the memo to be shown to the DoJ and FBI before even considering release?

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-26-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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