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  #101  
Old 01-29-2018, 01:55 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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I am turning 50 in March. In Spain, while she wasn't officially considered the husband's "property" in the way a cow or a house would be (she couldn't be bought and sold), the turning point that made the country realize that la maté porque era mía (I killed 'cos she was mine) was not acceptable was the murder of Ana Orantes in December of 1997.

That's 20 years ago.
I was making the tacit assumption that watchwolf spoke of the U.S. Otherwise, there are places in the world where even today a man beating a wife to death may go unprosecuted. But if he were referring to other countries then his being old enough to remember would be meaningless.
  #102  
Old 01-29-2018, 02:49 PM
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Someone didn't read the thread and my opening post throughly.
I just read it again three times. I'm not sure what you mean.

I was responding specifically to this: "Now i don't deny that there are truly patriarchal societies out there. But even so, most are barely strong these days."
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  #103  
Old 01-29-2018, 03:15 PM
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Someone didn't read the thread and my opening post throughly.
We can read your posts. We can't read your mind.
  #104  
Old 01-29-2018, 03:46 PM
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No, you are not. I'm 67 and this wasn't true at any time in my life and wouldn't have been true in my parent's lifetime.
I'm 51.

In my lifetime

Until 1969, she had to prove fault if she wanted a divorce (difficult to do if she didn't have any money to hire someone to prove fault).
Until 1973 there were states that required me to have my husband's permission before I took a job.
Until 1974 a married woman was not entitled to credit in her own name.
Until 1981, my husband could take out a second mortgage on our house without informing me.
Until 1993, there were states where there was no law criminalizing marital rape.

Now, beating your wife was made illegal in all states by the late 1920s. But honestly was not really enforced terribly well until well into the 1980s (and arguably still isn't).

So "property" might be a strong work, but with very little economic agency, no access to credit or a job, and no way to get a divorce unless I could prove adultery, having to put out - willingly or not - at my husband's demand, and domestic violence laws that were not well enforced - in parts of the country you might as well have been "property" during my lifetime.
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Last edited by Dangerosa; 01-29-2018 at 03:47 PM.
  #105  
Old 01-29-2018, 05:35 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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I'm 51.

In my lifetime

Until 1969, she had to prove fault if she wanted a divorce (difficult to do if she didn't have any money to hire someone to prove fault).
Until 1973 there were states that required me to have my husband's permission before I took a job.
Until 1974 a married woman was not entitled to credit in her own name.
Until 1981, my husband could take out a second mortgage on our house without informing me.
Until 1993, there were states where there was no law criminalizing marital rape.

Now, beating your wife was made illegal in all states by the late 1920s. But honestly was not really enforced terribly well until well into the 1980s (and arguably still isn't).

So "property" might be a strong work, but with very little economic agency, no access to credit or a job, and no way to get a divorce unless I could prove adultery, having to put out - willingly or not - at my husband's demand, and domestic violence laws that were not well enforced - in parts of the country you might as well have been "property" during my lifetime.
This is true, and absolutely irrelevant to my comment. I quoted one line:
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49
Even I'm old enough to remember when a man's wife was considered his personal property ... and if he wanted to beat her to death then that was his own affair ... and none of ours ...
Not a single thing you wrote has anything to do with beating a wife to death with no consequences. So I assume you have to agree with me that watchwolf's comment is simply not true when applied to the U.S. in our lifetimes. Yes or no?
  #106  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:18 AM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
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I'm surprised that nobody (unless I missed it) mentioned that women have earned more bachelor degrees in the USA (and in the UK, as well as several other countries) for at least the past ten years. In fact, there's an article in the NYT today discussing this and the fact that there are more women in the entering class at Oxford this year than there are men.

This doesn't resolve issues with hiring or pay for women, but it's certainly one area in which males are no longer "dominant." Advanced degrees are a different story.

If you choose your criteria carefully, you can certainly make an argument for exactly the opposite of your statement/question.
It's funny you mention this, I'm mid-50's and work for specialty chemical company. In the last four years, we've hired three new chemists, entry level-type, two right out of school and one with 1 year experience...all are women...and it's not like we set out to be enlightened or trying to empower women in the sciences, no, we interviewed probably 10 - 12 people per position, and the overwhelming majority (like 80%) of the applicants were female...we just picked the best and ones we felt would fit in well...they've been great...it's just different from my experience in coming from what was a male-dominated field (certainly in our little corner of the chemical universe)...and even funnier or more striking is the fact we deal with female engineers/chemists in our customer base more and more...

It's just an limited observation based on my experience...maybe it's a regional thing as to where we are located, and certainly just a micro-observation given the overall scope of the scientific and industrial community, but we've found the degreed millennial women we've hired and work with as customers are more focused, more mature, certainly more detail-oriented and better team players than most of the guys we've encountered...

And all three are in relationships with guys with little or no college experience...not judging, I don't care, they are all good guys, it's just very different from where I came from just 30 some years ago...
  #107  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:36 AM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
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Not in the US. However in Louisiana in 1978, my new wife - who was making far more money than me - could not get a check cashing card at the grocery because the Head and Master Law said that I owned all the property in the family, and she had no say in its disposition.
It got repealed, but not without complaints by some legislators who said that got married under that law and they damn well expected things to stay that way.
I thought you were kidding when you posted that...yikes, a quick Google search and you were NOT...I was about to graduate HS when LA was the last state to overturn those laws and I was not aware they existed in my lifetime until now...
  #108  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
I was making the tacit assumption that watchwolf spoke of the U.S. Otherwise, there are places in the world where even today a man beating a wife to death may go unprosecuted. But if he were referring to other countries then his being old enough to remember would be meaningless.
Ok, so "the world" equals "the US" excluding several areas such as those parts where Tokyo Bayer grew up. Really?


betterlife (mind if I call you betterlife?), back in 2001 I answered an ad for two "lab technicians, fourth shift; trade school or higher required". They had been expected guys with trade school training; they got 14 women with bachelor's or higher in STEM fields. I've been working in consulting since 2004 and those of my clients which have relatively high amounts of female workers are simply those which do not discriminate. If some companies in the field classify any "Mary" in the round fileholder and you don't, you end up getting a lot of good candidates called Mary.
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Last edited by Nava; 01-30-2018 at 02:41 AM.
  #109  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:00 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Ok, so "the world" equals "the US" excluding several areas such as those parts where Tokyo Bayer grew up. Really?
A search finds no other mention of Tokyo Bayer in this thread. What are you referring to?
  #110  
Old 02-01-2018, 11:06 PM
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A correction to my above post about The Lord of the Rings squeaking past the Bechdel Test: One of the requirements is that both women who talk with each other have to be named. Neither of the women Ioreth spoke with is named. So ::descending slide whistle glissando:: LotR actually just fails the Bechdel. Came so close, too.
  #111  
Old 02-02-2018, 01:22 AM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Beyonce is also one of the most powerful celebrities of all time, y'all sure still as male-dominated as they come?
  #112  
Old 02-02-2018, 01:29 AM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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I don't think right away that male dominance is an oxymoron, because men like to assert themeselves.


But on the other hand is also a hyperbole the way is used. The most patriarchal of times were like I pointed the Roman Empire or during Industrial Revolution[technically So to speak]

Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures and health options. Because women's health is seen as a universally promoted thing, but on the other hand men's health is still viewed helpless.
  #113  
Old 02-02-2018, 01:50 AM
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I don't think right away that male dominance is an oxymoron, because men like to assert themeselves.


But on the other hand is also a hyperbole the way is used. The most patriarchal of times were like I pointed the Roman Empire or during Industrial Revolution[technically So to speak]

Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures and health options. Because women's health is seen as a universally promoted thing, but on the other hand men's health is still viewed helpless.
Anecdote alert!

Many men are stubborn and refuse to go to get "check ups" so maybe its becoming casually accepted as "helpless"

I know many men like this, including myself. Instead of dealing with going to a doctor once, I gave myself some slapdash stitches with some ice cubes and a needle and thread (for clothes), not the best idea, actually one of the worst i've ever pursued but it worked and the scar is small. The point is, some of us will do anything to not be in a hospital. It has to be an immediate issue, like when a guy I know drove himself to the hospital while having a minor heart attack. Women on the other hand, as I've noticed, will be on time, every time and go to every single doctors appointment, without fail and don't take excessive risk for the most part.

Women's health may be promoted more because of this. Like marketing.

Last edited by anomalous1; 02-02-2018 at 01:51 AM. Reason: comma and such
  #114  
Old 02-02-2018, 02:49 AM
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{...} Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures {...}
I know, right, I keep asking my doctor for a PAP smear and an IUD and he won't give me either . . . just because I have a penis!!!

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  #115  
Old 02-02-2018, 03:09 AM
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I know, right, I keep asking my doctor for a PAP smear and an IUD and he won't give me either . . . just because I have a penis!!!

CMC fnord!
You don't think men are discriminated in healthcare though?
  #116  
Old 02-02-2018, 03:11 AM
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You don't think men are discriminated in healthcare though?
I don't know, you seem to think you do . . . make your case!

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  #117  
Old 02-02-2018, 03:38 AM
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You don't think men are discriminated in healthcare though?
I've read that drug testing used to favor men, and perhaps still does. Pharmaceutical companies would recruit men for their drug trials because have just one gender meant one less variable in their test group that they'd have to account for, and it was assumed that a drug that worked for men would work for women, too. It's only recently that that assumption has been questioned and found not to be as reliable as they'd hoped.

On the other hand, women live longer than men, so you could argue that they're getting better outcomes from the health-care system.

I think you can come up with anecdotes on both sides of the question (whatever the question happens to be) and no one is in a position to really weigh them all objectively.
  #118  
Old 02-02-2018, 07:47 AM
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Beyonce is also one of the most powerful celebrities of all time, y'all sure still as male-dominated as they come?
I don't have a dog in the fight, but I don't know that that's the best argument. 16th century England was certainly male dominated, but the most important person in it was Queen Elizabeth.
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  #119  
Old 02-02-2018, 12:26 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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I don't have a dog in the fight, but I don't know that that's the best argument. 16th century England was certainly male dominated, but the most important person in it was Queen Elizabeth.
I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol.
  #120  
Old 02-02-2018, 12:53 PM
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I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol.
What was the ratio back then, and why the "lol"?
  #121  
Old 02-02-2018, 12:54 PM
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I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol.
What does this mean?

On the subject of who holds the power in the music industry...
In an analysis of the top 600 songs from 2012 to 2017 — defined by Billboard’s year-end Hot 100 chart for each of those six years — the study found that of 1,239 performing artists, 22.4 percent of them were women.

The numbers are much lower among people behind the scenes. Of the 2,767 songwriters credited on those songs, 12.3 percent were women. Female producers — the people most responsible for the sound of pop music — are even rarer, at just 2 percent in a subset of 300 songs across this same period, the study found.

...

At the Grammy Awards, for example, the success of stars like Beyoncé, Taylor Swift and Adele may grab headlines. But a vast majority of awards go to men.

Of the 899 individuals who have been nominated for the last six Grammy ceremonies, 90.7 percent were men and 9.3 percent were women.
  #122  
Old 02-02-2018, 05:02 PM
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I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol.
I don't know what the gender ratio was in 16th century England. Traditionally, scholars have believed that in 17th century England, there were more women than men, which I think gets blamed on the Civil War, but no idea what it was in the 16th century. Why does matter? Please develop your argument.
  #123  
Old 02-02-2018, 05:58 PM
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It might only look like its male dominated but behind the scenes, women are good at getting their way.

Look at the Old West. Yes we talk about how this and that sheriff cleaned up a town but in reality, it was the women. Yes the women. Who chased out the bars and brothels and brought in schools, churches, libraries, clean streets, and social institutions like fine arts and book clubs. It was the women.
  #124  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:44 PM
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Exactly! Women in reality were never the helpless little taken advantage of wallflowers some would have us believe. And they weren't all the book and flower club type either. Many men see the underlying truth of a woman's strength in a joke I was sent the other day:

Quote:
The C I A had an opening for an assassin. After all the background checks, interviews and testing were done, there were three finalists: two men and a woman.

For the final test, the C I A agents took one of the men to a large metal door and handed him a gun.

"We must know that you will follow your instructions no matter what the circumstances. Inside the room you will find your wife sitting in a chair. Kill her."

The man said, "You can't be serious. I could never shoot my wife.

The agent said, "Then you are not the right man for this job. Take your wife and go home.

The second man was given the same instructions. He took the gun and went into the room. All was quiet for about five minutes. The man came out with tears in his eyes, "I tried, but I can't kill my wife.

The agent said, "You don't have what it takes, so take your wife and go home.

Finally, it was the woman's turn. She was given the same instructions to kill her husband. She took the gun and went into the room. Shots were heard one after another. They heard screaming, crashing, and banging on the walls. After a few minutes, all was quiet.

The door opened slowly and there stood the woman, wiping sweat from her brow.

"The gun was loaded with blanks," she said.

"I had to kill him with the chair.

Last edited by Starving Artist; 02-02-2018 at 06:45 PM.
  #125  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:46 PM
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Exactly! Women in reality were never the helpless little taken advantage of wallflowers some would have us believe. And they weren't all the book and flower club type either. Many men see the underlying truth of a woman's strength in a joke I was sent the other day:
And thus that women are so often discriminated against in our society (even if things are better than they were 50 or 100 years ago) is a great miscarriage of justice. Right?
  #126  
Old 02-02-2018, 10:17 PM
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Anecdote alert!

Many men are stubborn and refuse to go to get "check ups" so maybe its becoming casually accepted as "helpless"

I know many men like this, including myself. Instead of dealing with going to a doctor once, I gave myself some slapdash stitches with some ice cubes and a needle and thread (for clothes), not the best idea, actually one of the worst i've ever pursued but it worked and the scar is small. The point is, some of us will do anything to not be in a hospital. It has to be an immediate issue, like when a guy I know drove himself to the hospital while having a minor heart attack. Women on the other hand, as I've noticed, will be on time, every time and go to every single doctors appointment, without fail and don't take excessive risk for the most part.

Women's health may be promoted more because of this. Like marketing.
It is not Anecdote, the problem is that the term used to describe it is dismissed as political despite the realities.

If you mention that this is a side effect of "toxic masculinity" and as a great example where the "patriarchy" hurts men, you will be dismissed as as "hating men" or being "ashamed of you who you are" because well....the patriarchy.

Rhetoric is powerful, and the same tools and norms that keep us men in line are directly attributable to this behavior.

One of the proximate causes of this behavior is the social cost of being viewed as weak or expressing needs and concerns for men.

It drives up stress levels, results in preventable conditions from being diagnosed and treated and results in an economy where medical providers and suppliers target women which ends up being a more profitable direction.

‘Deaths of despair’ surging is another example of this, white men do not learn the coping mechanisms that others do, and we never will until we can realize that it is the system that is being challenged and not our artificially fragile egos that this same system that produced.

While I hate the term, being 'woke' as an adult white male has very real social costs right now, and unless you are lucky there is no mechanism in place to demonstrate the truth which is that 'the emperor has no clothes'

To be clear this is a crappy thing all around, and I am not discounting the far more difficult challenges for female and non-white men experience. But without social support or societal models to index is is still hard.

We were all sold a bill of goods, and the only difference is the degree and/or type of pain.
  #127  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:14 AM
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Exactly! Women in reality were never the helpless little taken advantage of wallflowers some would have us believe. And they weren't all the book and flower club type either. Many men see the underlying truth of a woman's strength in a joke I was sent the other day:

A misogynist joke is your cite? This in the face of domestic violence and rape statistics. To say nothing of societies that treat women as second class citizens. You can't be fucking serious.
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  #128  
Old 02-03-2018, 11:50 AM
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It is not Anecdote, the problem is that the term used to describe it is dismissed as political despite the realities.

If you mention that this is a side effect of "toxic masculinity" and as a great example where the "patriarchy" hurts men, you will be dismissed as as "hating men" or being "ashamed of you who you are" because well....the patriarchy.

Rhetoric is powerful, and the same tools and norms that keep us men in line are directly attributable to this behavior.

One of the proximate causes of this behavior is the social cost of being viewed as weak or expressing needs and concerns for men.

It drives up stress levels, results in preventable conditions from being diagnosed and treated and results in an economy where medical providers and suppliers target women which ends up being a more profitable direction.

‘Deaths of despair’ surging is another example of this, white men do not learn the coping mechanisms that others do, and we never will until we can realize that it is the system that is being challenged and not our artificially fragile egos that this same system that produced.

While I hate the term, being 'woke' as an adult white male has very real social costs right now, and unless you are lucky there is no mechanism in place to demonstrate the truth which is that 'the emperor has no clothes'

To be clear this is a crappy thing all around, and I am not discounting the far more difficult challenges for female and non-white men experience. But without social support or societal models to index is is still hard.

We were all sold a bill of goods, and the only difference is the degree and/or type of pain.
As soon you said "white male" instead of men in general I almost wanted to stop your reading your post.


And I like how you mentioned "adult" in there, what are we gonna have ageism soon in our thread?
  #129  
Old 02-03-2018, 11:57 AM
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I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol.
Care to elaborate on this statement, and why you find it funny?
  #130  
Old 02-03-2018, 12:10 PM
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As soon you said "white male" instead of men in general I almost wanted to stop your reading your post.
Why on earth would you have that reaction? Both race and gender are entirely relevant to rat avatar's post. What makes you think they are not?
  #131  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:04 PM
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Exactly! Women in reality were never the helpless little taken advantage of wallflowers some would have us believe. And they weren't all the book and flower club type either. Many men see the underlying truth of a woman's strength in a joke I was sent the other day:
One of my favorite women of history was Laura Ingalls Wilder and while everyone knows her from her "Little House" books, they dont know her work behind the scenes to improve the lives of women and her community in general.

For example, she lead the push for good public bathrooms when at the time people were supposed to run out back behind a tree or outhouses were disgusting. She also started community book clubs for women and public libraries.
  #132  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:05 PM
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And thus that women are so often discriminated against in our society (even if things are better than they were 50 or 100 years ago) is a great miscarriage of justice. Right?
Even IF things are better??? Hell yes they are better.
  #133  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:08 PM
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Even IF things are better??? Hell yes they are better.
Yes -- so you agree with me that the fact that women are so often discriminated against in our society (even though there has been progress) remains a great miscarriage of justice. Right?
  #134  
Old 02-03-2018, 06:35 PM
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One of my favorite women of history was Laura Ingalls Wilder and while everyone knows her from her "Little House" books, they dont know her work behind the scenes to improve the lives of women and her community in general.

For example, she lead the push for good public bathrooms when at the time people were supposed to run out back behind a tree or outhouses were disgusting. She also started community book clubs for women and public libraries.
What on earth is your point? Is this kind of like "Oprah is a billionaire, so Black people don't experience discrimination?" or "Will and Grace was a hit, so there's no longer any homophobia?"

"This one woman did awesome things, so clearly men don't dominate society?"

If that's your intent, that's just...astoundingly poor logic.
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Last edited by andros; 02-03-2018 at 06:37 PM.
  #135  
Old 02-04-2018, 01:12 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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What on earth is your point? Is this kind of like "Oprah is a billionaire, so Black people don't experience discrimination?" or "Will and Grace was a hit, so there's no longer any homophobia?"

"This one woman did awesome things, so clearly men don't dominate society?"

If that's your intent, that's just...astoundingly poor logic.
.
Women still outlive men too[but not by much anymore]
  #136  
Old 02-04-2018, 01:13 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Why on earth would you have that reaction? Both race and gender are entirely relevant to rat avatar's post. What makes you think they are not?
Because the topic is more about men in general whether or not we dominate the world


Different regions are dominated by different races.
  #137  
Old 02-04-2018, 02:52 PM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is offline
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And thus that women are so often discriminated against in our society...
Is there any country anywhere in the world where men aren't dominate in day-to-day life (as opposed to political leader or such)? Or in history, for that matter? It's good now that women have better career options and rights and to try to equal things out, but I get annoyed by statements like "In this country...[discrimination complaint]". Male dominance has been the case all throughout history and everywhere and is attributable to the fact that due to their greater physical prowess men have always been the ones to go out and hunt, built things and fight in wars, all of which in modern times morphed into supporting the family while women took care of things at home. So again let's knock off blaming U.S. society for all the ills attributed to inequity between the sexes, because it's always been the case everywhere in the world.
  #138  
Old 02-04-2018, 03:34 PM
Chessic Sense Chessic Sense is offline
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and their presence might tone down the boys assholeishness)
What's that supposed to mean? Boys are assholes that need to be corrected by girls? Boys in general don't need to be toned down. If anything, they need to be revved up.

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
If it were a woman-dominated world, men would have to wear high heels and women would be expected to wear flats.

I rest my case.
If it were a male-dominated world, women would have to wear high heels. They don't. They wear flats pretty much all the time. I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by DrFidelius View Post
Domination is not a zero sum game. No one is claiming that women have no power or influence, just that men historically and currently have more power and influence.
I'm a man. I have no power or influence over anyone except my children. I've never been President, not even once for a little bit. Are you factoring me into the average?

Quote:
Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
How many great Hollywood movies have only one woman in them ... Casablanca, The Quiet Man, etc etc etc ...
Well, of course. You need to have enemies you can shoot, beat, kill, and abuse. Guess which gender's suitable for such a role?

Only 11 woman served in the US Senate during this country's first 200 years ... that's half the number currently sitting ... and 22 out of 100 is still a national disgrace IMEIO ...

There's places in this world right now where women are never treated as adults ... Until very recently, women couldn't vote, couldn't drive and couldn't be seen outside their homes without being accompanied by their husband/father/brother ... or the police will cut their heads off right there in the street ...[/quote]

And yet, currently there are about 150 million women who are not senators. There are also about 150 million men who aren't senators. Sounds like a tie to me.

Quote:
There's a billion Roman Catholics in the world who honestly believe women are completely unqualified to be priests ...
They also believe men are completely unqualified to be nuns.


In other words, it's really easy to find men in positions of power, influence and wealth if you don't look in the shelters, gutters, and prisons. So stop cherry picking.
  #139  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:06 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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What's that supposed to mean? Boys are assholes that need to be corrected by girls? Boys in general don't need to be toned down. If anything, they need to be revved up.



If it were a male-dominated world, women would have to wear high heels. They don't. They wear flats pretty much all the time. I rest my case.



I'm a man. I have no power or influence over anyone except my children. I've never been President, not even once for a little bit. Are you factoring me into the average?



Well, of course. You need to have enemies you can shoot, beat, kill, and abuse. Guess which gender's suitable for such a role?

Only 11 woman served in the US Senate during this country's first 200 years ... that's half the number currently sitting ... and 22 out of 100 is still a national disgrace IMEIO ...

There's places in this world right now where women are never treated as adults ... Until very recently, women couldn't vote, couldn't drive and couldn't be seen outside their homes without being accompanied by their husband/father/brother ... or the police will cut their heads off right there in the street ...
And yet, currently there are about 150 million women who are not senators. There are also about 150 million men who aren't senators. Sounds like a tie to me.



They also believe men are completely unqualified to be nuns.


In other words, it's really easy to find men in positions of power, influence and wealth if you don't look in the shelters, gutters, and prisons. So stop cherry picking.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget nursery and teaching are still highly dominated by women
  #140  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:11 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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....


Post glitched

Last edited by Luciano700; 02-04-2018 at 05:12 PM.
  #141  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:13 PM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Is there any country anywhere in the world where men aren't dominate in day-to-day life (as opposed to political leader or such)? Or in history, for that matter? It's good now that women have better career options and rights and to try to equal things out, but I get annoyed by statements like "In this country...[discrimination complaint]". Male dominance has been the case all throughout history and everywhere and is attributable to the fact that due to their greater physical prowess men have always been the ones to go out and hunt, built things and fight in wars, all of which in modern times morphed into supporting the family while women took care of things at home. So again let's knock off blaming U.S. society for all the ills attributed to inequity between the sexes, because it's always been the case everywhere in the world.
I stand with you against anyone blaming US society for all the ills attributed to inequity between the sexes. You slay those men of straw, and I'll be right beside you!

And hopefully you'll also stand beside me in fighting the various forms of discrimination against women that still remain.
  #142  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:21 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I stand with you against anyone blaming US society for all the ills attributed to inequity between the sexes. You slay those men of straw, and I'll be right beside you!

And hopefully you'll also stand beside me in fighting the various forms of discrimination against women that still remain.
What about all the abuse shelter centers?
What about the life expectancies[Black, Native American and Native Hawaiian men particularly]?
What about selective services?
What about the lack of gendered-marketing?
What about the double standards surrounding dating?
What about parenting or reproductive rights?
What about the man still paying for dinner?
  #143  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:22 PM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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What about all the abuse shelter centers?
What about the life expectancies[Black, Native American and Native Hawaiian men particularly]?
What about selective services?
What about the lack of gendered-marketing?
What about the double standards surrounding dating?
What about parenting or reproductive rights?
What about the man still paying for dinner?
Huh? If you want me to answer a question, please ask something specific. "What about..." doesn't actually tell me what information you're trying to acquire.

I'll try to guess for the second (I can't even guess what you're asking about for the rest) -- it is wrong that only men have to register for selective services, and this should be changed.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 02-04-2018 at 05:25 PM.
  #144  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:23 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
wut
Female priviledges
  #145  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:28 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Huh? If you want me to answer a question, please ask something specific. "What about..." doesn't actually tell me what information you're trying to acquire.

I'll try to guess for the second (I can't even guess what you're asking about for the rest) -- it is wrong that only men have to register for selective services, and this should be changed.

Listed and questioning female privileges.
  #146  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:30 PM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Listed and questioning female privileges.
I still don't understand what you're asking. Can you put it in a complete sentence, with details and context and all that good stuff?
  #147  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:38 PM
Luciano700 Luciano700 is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Huh? If you want me to answer a question, please ask something specific. "What about..." doesn't actually tell me what information you're trying to acquire.

I'll try to guess for the second (I can't even guess what you're asking about for the rest) -- it is wrong that only men have to register for selective services, and this should be changed.
Is 2018 and men still barely get access to abuse centers

Male life expectancies are still very steady, and especially for men of color

Why aren't women in selective services?

A great example of a double standard would be not dating a guy because he's bald, yet a woman being rejected for being morbidly obese sparks outrage

Men have and will, at times, face discrimination in courts when they assert their rights to pursue joint or sole physical custody. The judges and friend of the court workers that perpetuate the discrimination often don't realize that they are discriminating. That is because many people are very susceptible to unconscious/ implicit bias

The gender marketing one is just something I care about only myself I guess

The last one should be obvious

Last edited by Luciano700; 02-04-2018 at 05:39 PM.
  #148  
Old 02-04-2018, 05:43 PM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Originally Posted by Luciano700 View Post
Is 2018 and men still barely get access to abuse centers

Male life expectancies are still very steady, and especially for men of color

Why aren't women in selective services?

A great example of a double standard would be not dating a guy because he's bald, yet a woman being rejected for being morbidly obese sparks outrage

Men have and will, at times, face discrimination in courts when they assert their rights to pursue joint or sole physical custody. The judges and friend of the court workers that perpetuate the discrimination often don't realize that they are discriminating. That is because many people are very susceptible to unconscious/ implicit bias

The gender marketing one is just something I care about only myself I guess

The last one should be obvious
Do you know why male life expectancies are lower? I don't. Maybe discrimination is involved, or maybe it's just biology. If discrimination is involved, then that is bad and should end.

I think the selective services thing is bad and should change. That is disparate treatment based on gender, and that's bad.

I don't know what you're talking about with regards to dating. Who is outraged? Who is being treated unfairly?

For family courts, maybe discrimination is occurring sometimes. I don't know. If so, this is bad and should be stopped.
  #149  
Old 02-04-2018, 07:49 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is offline
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I still don't understand what you're asking. Can you put it in a complete sentence, with details and context and all that good stuff?
What about the growing gap in higher education; would you support measures to pressure women's colleges to admit men, or for school teachers to put more effort into teaching methods tailored to boys' learning styles?


(Not to single you out, andy. As I've said, I find the overall situation to be extremely complicated; I just think a proper debate should take lots of different factors into account.)
  #150  
Old 02-04-2018, 07:55 PM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
What about the growing gap in higher education; would you support measures to pressure women's colleges to admit men, or for school teachers to put more effort into teaching methods tailored to boys' learning styles?


(Not to single you out, andy. As I've said, I find the overall situation to be extremely complicated; I just think a proper debate should take lots of different factors into account.)
I don't know the details of this, but I'm at least open to considering the idea.
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