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  #151  
Old 09-02-2018, 04:38 AM
DKW DKW is offline
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Okay...doesn't look like there will be any more big developments for a while. I don't have a huge dog in this fight, but it's a long weekend and speculation can be fun in reasonable quantities, so I'll just say my final piece and leave it at that.

All right. Terrible overreaction, and politics preventing any easy correction. What does Disney do now?

Rehire Gunn (and maybe make him do some small contrition like contributing to a cause that benefits children or whatnot)
This is the simple, commonsense solution. We're not going to allow one bad apple (Alan Horn) to spoil the bunch, pencils have erasers, you know the drill. As a practical matter, this makes the most sense for ensuring that production of GOTG3 goes smoothly, the direction remains consistent with the previous movies, and everyone is on board and motivated. Disney has more money and power than several deities, and they're more than equipped to deal with any backlash from internet slimeballs. In fact, there's no better opportunity for them to really put forward that they're the good guys and they won't let Nazis and other evil scum get the best of them.

And that last part is the hard one.

Overwhelmingly, Americans of power despise doing the right thing. They're terrified of making any positive change whatsoever. Why do you think not one message board in a hundred gives the option of blocking individual users? YouTube's has this limp-wristed option of preventing users from commenting on videos you yourself uploaded while keeping their slime 100% visible on each and every other video. Like, what the hell is that?? And even that's more than most places offer. How long did it take to get the ball rolling on not allowing gutter-crawling sleazeball perverts to harass and abuse DOZENS of women with utter impunity?

If Disney wanted to be on the side of the angels, they'd be on the side of the angels. I've seen no evidence that there's any real effort at any level of the corporation to do that.

Hire a new director and just brazen out the backlash
I actually thought this was what was going to happen. From a cynical greedbag perspective (and what other perspective is there for an entertainment giant? ), it makes the most sense. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a cornucopia right now. It's pretty much impossible to screw up. Any sequel to Guardians of the Galaxy is going to be profitable no matter what. Let the critics squawk, let Gunn's many friends protest, let the fans of GotG and the MCU fume on social media. We're Disney, beehiottchichiesses (or however you spell that )! Nothing bad happens to us! Like Kanye West, except with a lot more money!

Just one teensy little problem...who? Who is willing to be the scab who flips off a small army of Gunn's supporters and burn all kinds of bridges? Connections are EVERYTHING in Hollywood. The most likely candidate is a hardcore screw-the-world right wing Trump supporter, and believe me, right wingers know about as much about entertainment as the Taliban knows about lawn care. (Look up "Liberality". Or just take my word for it and spare yourself the migraine.)

And the big problem is that this gives Mike Cernovich a victory which is horrible for two reasons: 1. The obvious one, and 2. it makes everyone under the Disney umbrella a potential target. There's a reason you're not supposed to give in to terrorist demands, and it has nothing to do with listening to mocking clucking noises the next day.

Wait it out, then hire based on how the winds seem to be blowing
This seems to be the direction Disney is headed. Horn is immovable for whatever reason, rehiring Gunn is really, really hard for whatever reason, hiring a replacement right now is unfeasible because gee, I dunno, giving a slimeball right wing Trump supporter a win maybe isn't the smartest idea? Just cool it for now. The public has the attention span of goldfish. Eventually everyone will forget or decide it's not that big a deal, and with luck Cernovich will get his head trapped in a washing machine and drown, and they can relax decide who to hire, and get on with filming.

Unfortunately, tensions are running really high, and if you haven't noticed, there are a lot of folks who are on Gunn's side, many of them power brokers in the industry themselves. Gunn is not the kind of person you can just casually toss under the bus without blowback. Sure, the common schlubs will forget in a few weeks, but should Disney buck him and hire someone else, Gunn's friends will be very happy to remind them.

On top of that, time is money. Licenses don't come cheap, and every week, every month, every year that Disney isn't producing something is more cash out the window. Also, the last thing any shareholder wants to hear is "postponed indefinitely". This is Guardians of the Galaxy, not Howard The Duck; this is a hot property, and the shareholders expect Disney to do something with it.

Hire a no-name director, but secretly bring Gunn back in and pay him under the table
Make no mistake, Disney can be very good at hiding secrets when they want to be...remember how they prevented anyone from learning of their acquisition of Star Wars until literally the day the deal was finalized? This, though, might be just a bit too much to ask...too many moving parts, and it's become so high-profile that it's difficult to imagine keeping it completely under wraps. And the moment Cernovich finds out, there will be hell to pay. It would require a ton of courage to even consider this, and in that case it'd be simpler just to rehire Gunn.

Cancel the movie
This isn't quite the non-starter it sounds like at first blush. Remember that the cast was "killed" at the end of the second movie, and the MCU is this big, big world with all kinds of divisions and storylines and characters. It wouldn't be too hard to reference the characters and/or plot of GotG in an unrelated project; heck, it's the perfect excuse to green-light something the fans have been clamoring for. The downside...well, it's going to make a lot of people, shareholders and fans alike, angry. Really angry. Really, really, really angry. Corporations may be cold-blooded, but as a rule they're not suicidal.

Sell the movie to another studio
If all else fails, make it someone else's problem. A last result, obviously, but if waiting doesn't work and replacing is going to cause too much bad blood, this may be their best chance for cutting their losses. The obvious drawback, of course, is that once you sell something it's not yours to use anymore, and, again, this isn't Electra, this is one of the SUCCESSFUL properties.

We'll find out eventually.
  #152  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:18 AM
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That seems a reasonable assessment. What a clusterfuck, all down the the stubbornness of one old man with more power than he deserves*.

*a common problem in many other places too
  #153  
Old 09-02-2018, 06:45 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Gee, in 2005 you could have made exactly the same argument for a Prussian Blue show...
What happened to them anyway?
  #154  
Old 09-02-2018, 12:53 PM
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DKW:

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gee, I dunno, giving a slimeball right wing Trump supporter a win maybe isn't the smartest idea?
You know, it's entirely possible that the decision-makers at Disney are themselves "slimeball right wing Trump supports" and do not thing giving a fellow one a win is a bad idea. It may bother you to acknowledge it, but those guys make up 40% of America. Surely a much lower percentage in Hollywood, but I'll bet there's a big disconnect between the corporate officers and the creative class in that regard.
  #155  
Old 09-02-2018, 01:23 PM
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What happened to them anyway?
Not sure if this is a serious question or you making a point but they got older, joined a public school, saw more of the real world, realized that their parents racism was bullshit and renounced their previous white supremacist songs/concerts.
  #156  
Old 09-02-2018, 01:33 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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Marvel Studios can’t really afford to “wait it out”; to hit the 2020 release date they’ll have to start preproduction no later than early next year (was supposed to start in November). This isn’t just a problem in terms of adhering to their release schedule; with such a large cast and in-demand actors like Pratt, Bautista, and Saldana, altering the production scheule can have major impacts or make production infeasible. And if they push it out they’ll have to backfill with soemthing else that is not already in development, and while I’d love to see a ‘Sixties era “Origins of SHIELD” with Peggy Carter and a young upstart agent with the oddly appropriate name of Fury, no second-tier property is going to have the same guaranteed draw as Guardians.

As for Disney cancelling the movie or selling the property to another studio like Fox, there is just no chance of that whatsoever. It is not only an unexpected cash cow for Marvel, which developed it when nobody thought it would have any real sequel potential and cast it with a bunch of non-headliners, but it is also now tightly integrated into the MCU. Cleving it off into a separated property doesn’t make sense from a narrative perspective, but also would eliminate the crossover opportunities to build other, post-Avengers properties upon. Pratt and the other stars would likely abandon the roles, especially if this delays production, and there is no real incentive for anyone to buy an abandoned property that lacks inherent value. They might as well just try to make another Fantastic 4 movie which has about an equal chance of turning a profit.

One of two things will happen; Marvel will rehire Gunn and he’ll have to perform some public act of notional contrition for having been an insenitive jackass on a social media site years before he became famous; or they’ll use Gunn’s script and hire another director to complete the project. They may shift the post-Avengers focus somewhere else like Captain Marvel but for now Guardians is an anchor property for the MCU and its avenue into the larger universe.

Stranger
  #157  
Old 09-02-2018, 04:04 PM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
DKW:
You know, it's entirely possible that the decision-makers at Disney are themselves "slimeball right wing Trump supports" and do not thing giving a fellow one a win is a bad idea. It may bother you to acknowledge it, but those guys make up 40% of America. Surely a much lower percentage in Hollywood, but I'll bet there's a big disconnect between the corporate officers and the creative class in that regard.
I would be very, very doubtful of this. Disney is on the record as supporting many left wing causes such as same-sex marriage, gay rights and others.

In the 2016 cycle - according to OpenSecrets - they gave about $670,000 to congressional candidates and 75%+ ($490,941) went to democratic candidates. Hell, they gave more to NON-INCUMBENTS than they gave to all candidates with an R next to their name. They also gave more than $8MM in soft money contributions.

Now, as a corporation, head's up. They directly spent a bit under $4MM on lobbying in 2016. A lot of that went to bills aimed at maintaining copyright issues for the firm - no one gets Mickey, God dammit - but oddly also the Marrakesh Treaty Implementation Act and a number of sex trafficking acts.

Ah, the sex trafficking stuff contained a side track concerning the Disney, 21th Century Fox merger.

Ah, mark two. The Marrakesh thing contained language dealing with overseas copyright issues. My world is no longer spinning wildly.

In short, outside of issues about protecting the firm's ability to do business, Disney is solidly in the D category in terms of lobbying and candidate contributions.
  #158  
Old 09-03-2018, 06:41 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Not sure if this is a serious question or you making a point but they got older, joined a public school, saw more of the real world, realized that their parents racism was bullshit and renounced their previous white supremacist songs/concerts.
Dear God can one just ask a question without being jumped upon? Was curious since they have been out of the news for a long time.

Good to know they got out and learnt the error of their ways.
  #159  
Old 09-03-2018, 08:27 AM
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What happened to them anyway?
They got into the Reefer...or not.

Last edited by MrDibble; 09-03-2018 at 08:29 AM.
  #160  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:45 PM
DKW DKW is offline
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Stranger on a Train - Good analysis. In light of the deadline, that makes "wait it out" pretty much completely unfeasible, since Gunn's supporters only need to keep the pressure on for a few more months. As the clock winds down, Gunn's chances of getting rehired get better...IF the Disney brain trust realizes just what a complete clusterfrag "hiring someone else" is going to be. To recap: 1. having to find someone with no sense of ethics and willing to burn a lot of bridges 2. giving Cernovich a victory, which is going to make Disney look really bad for reasons Jonathan Chance mentioned 3. making everyone at Disney a potential target, possibly permanently 4. taking a bazooka to the morale of the actors involved 5. really getting hosed long-term in regards to finding quality directors for future projects. We've seen a lot of really stupid corporate decisions get made because an exec couldn't see the big picture...New Coke, anyone? Hopefully history doesn't repeat itself here.
  #161  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:59 PM
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Dear God can one just ask a question without being jumped upon? Was curious since they have been out of the news for a long time.
I didn't realize that answering your question was "jumping on you". I literally wasn't sure if you asked that rhetorically to make some point or were genuinely curious.

Next time I'll refrain from answering you at all
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
They got into the Reefer...or not.
I was going to mention that but apparently one of the girls started using it medically while fighting cancer so it didn't really seem like "started toking up and mellowed out about all that Nazi stuff"

Last edited by Jophiel; 09-04-2018 at 12:01 AM.
  #162  
Old 09-04-2018, 02:48 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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They got into the Reefer...or not.
Achtung! Hippie..
Man it’s getting difficult to find good Nazi rock bands these days...
  #163  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:43 PM
borschevsky borschevsky is offline
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Well now this is interesting:

James Gunn Boards ‘Suicide Squad 2’ To Write And Possibly Direct

There is a pretty wide range of outcomes for how the next few years of DC movies could go.
  #164  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:57 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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I sort of called it, although I was assuming it would be Fox that would snap him up and have him architect a Deadpool-centered/X-Men-adjacent cinematic universe, or else write and direct the first R-rated attempt at a Fantastic Four movie, which is really the only shot that franchise ever has at breaking 40% on the TomatoMeter. A Suicide Squad-type movie is obviously a great fit for Gunn's sensibility although given what an absolute hash the first film was it really carries a lot of dead weight to be shed in the sequel.

Hopefully Gunn gives his approval to whomever takes over Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3 and provides some guidance, and Marvel selects someone with the appropriately quirky approach, but I'm dubious that it will live up to the first two in terms of the visual inventiveness and snappy dialogue (a lot of which was added by Gunn during filming or ad libbed by the cast with Gunn's encouragement). Given that the Guardians were supposed to be the franchise successors to the Avengers, this also leaves some doubt about the direction that the MCU will take after Avengers 4: We Still Won't Tell You The Title Because It Just Makes You That Much More Anxious To Give Us All Your Money. But frankly, Marvel Studios has assembled a lot of talent and allowed it to develop in unique ways within an overall framework, so there are a multitude of ways they can take the MCU going forward even if none of the Guardians players decide to return beyond their current contracts. Chris Pratt and Dave Bautista were revelations, but it isn't as if Marvel is struggling to attract and develop great talent.

Stranger
  #165  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:12 PM
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There is a pretty wide range of outcomes for how the next few years of DC movies could go.
If I were DC and James Gunn expressed some interest, I would just ask him what he wants to do, and let him do it.
  #166  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:29 PM
borschevsky borschevsky is offline
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Yeah. I had no interest at all in a new Suicide Squad, but I’m interested now. The new Wonder Woman will hopefully be good, and Aquaman looks at least interesting. Of course it all might turn out terribly, but who knows.
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