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Old 02-25-2020, 06:42 PM
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Biden arrested trying see Nelson Mandela?


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...h-africa-visit

Is there any truth at all to this? Is there anything resembling any sort of truth in this? Wouldn't that have been a major international incident for South Africa to arrest a sitting United States Senator?

If this seems to be bullshit, why is Biden continuing to bullshit in this modern day when anything can be checked?
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:54 PM
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If it really happened, I can't imagine something like that not being all over the news....
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Last edited by Oakminster; 02-25-2020 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:45 PM
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Washington Post says it's "ridiculous".

Last edited by Xema; 02-25-2020 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:53 PM
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Andrew Young says it never happened, and Biden didn't mention it in the passage in his memoir about his visit to South Africa.
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:49 PM
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Biden’s clearly failing.... to keep up with the lies of his prospective Republican opponent. He needs to up his game.
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Is there any truth at all to this? Is there anything resembling any sort of truth in this? Wouldn't that have been a major international incident for South Africa to arrest a sitting United States Senator?

If this seems to be bullshit, why is Biden continuing to bullshit in this modern day when anything can be checked?
I can see that honesty and personal integrity are important issues with you. So here's what I recommend; next November you vote for the candidate who has told the fewest lies.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:56 AM
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Considering Robben Island is in Cape Town, over a thousand miles from Soweto, I doubt the police would need to do any arresting or even care. And of course it's an island, a very small one, completely isolated and secured. There was no way to get there without government consent, none at all.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:13 AM
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His surrogates are saying that he was "detained" for not going in a different line than the black caucus he was with until they found a workaround. They aren't saying how long he was detained.

If that's true, then he's stretching the definition of "arrested" by quite a bit.

I personally think this never happened and that he's lying, or that he is really so mentally gone that he's mistaking a story he heard for his own experience. Either way, I think saying this was a bad move.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:42 PM
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Careful, there, you might be seen as casting doubt on the pristine veracity of the Washington Examiner!
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:36 PM
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I personally think this never happened and that he's lying, or that he is really so mentally gone that he's mistaking a story he heard for his own experience.
He also claims 150 million Americans have been killed by gun violence since 2007. That averages over 31,000 people per day, and would be half the population. I'm wondering if it's (mild) early onset dementia.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:50 PM
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He also claims 150 million Americans have been killed by gun violence since 2007. That averages over 31,000 people per day, and would be half the population. I'm wondering if it's (mild) early onset dementia.
Eh, I think he just flubbed "millions" when he meant "thousands" while speaking. I don't think this is evidence of much of anything.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:21 PM
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His surrogates are saying that he was "detained" for not going in a different line than the black caucus he was with until they found a workaround. They aren't saying how long he was detained.

If that's true, then he's stretching the definition of "arrested" by quite a bit.

I personally think this never happened and that he's lying, or that he is really so mentally gone that he's mistaking a story he heard for his own experience. Either way, I think saying this was a bad move.
Where was this? On Robben Island? They let a whole U.S. delegation visit Mandela but the visiting room was segregated?
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:40 PM
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Where was this? On Robben Island? They let a whole U.S. delegation visit Mandela but the visiting room was segregated?
Not sure where either.
  #14  
Old 02-26-2020, 07:46 PM
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From the WaPo article:
Quote:
Young is a former Atlanta mayor who supports fellow former mayor Mike Bloomberg but considers Biden a friend. He speculated that Biden was mixing up stories about congressional delegations that would fly into Lesotho, a landlocked country surrounded by South Africa. He said he believed he traveled on at least three trips with Biden when he was a member of Congress.

Young said that on one trip, “we were not jailed, but we were retained by South Africa police,” who would not let the lawmakers get back to a military base in Lesotho so they could board their plane. A colonel finally came and sorted everything out. Young, with a laugh, recalled that then-Rep. Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.), who headed the delegation, “got pretty worked up about it.”
His elaboration of an incident like this into being arrested trying to see Mandela is pretty eye-rolly, but it's not like he made it up out of whole cloth.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:37 AM
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... Is there any truth at all to this? ...
I'm trying to keep up-to-date with modern lingo, but my dictionary shows "Truth" as an archaism. Google Books Ngram Viewer shows that, except for a brief resurgence from 1866 to 1872, the use of "truth" has been declining steadily since 1846.

Google does come up with some old usages:

Quote:
Originally Posted by St. John, the Beloved Apostle
Pilate saith unto him, "What is truth?" And when he said this, he went out again to the Jews and saith to them: "I find no cause in him."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Arthur Blair
If, for example, Eurasia or Eastasia (whichever it may be) is the enemy today, then that country must always have been the enemy. And if the facts say otherwise then the facts must be altered. Thus history is continuously rewritten. This day-to-day falsification of the past, carried out by the Ministry of Truth, is as necessary to the stability of the regime as the work of repression and espionage carried out by the Ministry of Love.
... but these still leave me confused.

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I can see that honesty and personal integrity are important issues with you. So here's what I recommend; next November you vote for the candidate who has told the fewest lies.
This wasn't addressed to me, but I'll take the pledge. Others?
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:00 AM
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I can see that honesty and personal integrity are important issues with you. So here's what I recommend; next November you vote for the candidate who has told the fewest lies.
Personally, it's less about the lie and more about the general stupidity of lying about something so easily checked.
Before I get jumped on for excusing Trump for lying or being stupid, it is entirely possible to hold both in contempt for stupidity and lying.

Also, "they do it too!"

Last edited by Kearsen1; 02-27-2020 at 09:02 AM.
  #17  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:34 AM
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Yes, they are both liars. Also, an elephant and a mouse are both mammals. Which is bigger?

(Take your time, think it over, you got this...)
  #18  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...h-africa-visit

Is there any truth at all to this? Is there anything resembling any sort of truth in this? Wouldn't that have been a major international incident for South Africa to arrest a sitting United States Senator?

If this seems to be bullshit, why is Biden continuing to bullshit in this modern day when anything can be checked?
Consider the source.
  #19  
Old 02-27-2020, 11:05 AM
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So, did the "Christian" Right buy out the Moonies, or round them up and execute them? Make a great mini-series....
  #20  
Old 02-27-2020, 12:14 PM
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So, did the "Christian" Right buy out the Moonies, or round them up and execute them? Make a great mini-series....
The Moonies own Washington Times. Although The Washington Examiner has hired some of the better Times writers, it's owned by hyper-Christian multi-billionaire Philip Anschutz:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Anschutz donated to conservative causes and groups that are openly antigay, anti-transgender, and pro-life....
Anschutz funds groups that advocate pseudoscientific concepts and viewpoints. He is a frequent donor to think tanks and corporate front groups that promote climate change denial, such as the Discovery Institute, the American Legislative Exchange Council, the Heritage Foundation, the Pacific Research Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, the Mercatus Center, America's Future Foundation, the Claremont Institute, DonorsTrust, the National Chamber Foundation and The Philanthropy Foundation.
I forget the name for the ploy ("bait and switch"?) but the idea is that with the Moonie Times acting like fringe-nuts, the Examiner can aspire to seem moderate.

A good rule of thumb, I think, is that the truthy(*) U.S. newspapers — NY Times, Washington Post, WSJ — charge to be read, while the lying newspapers are happy to spread bullshit for free. (* - I'm using "truthy" in its archaic sense of "relating to facts; characterized by accuracy.")

I'm too lazy to turn off Javascript or keep killing cookies, so I get my news from Reuters, Aljazeera, etc.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:26 PM
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I find it fascinating how Biden is always criticized for his tall tales, but when he talks about getting the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired that is taken as unquestionable gospel truth.
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:41 PM
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I find it fascinating how Biden is always criticized for his tall tales, but when he talks about getting the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired that is taken as unquestionable gospel truth.
  #23  
Old 02-27-2020, 12:52 PM
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Did he come under sniper fire while he was doing it?

Regards,
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2020, 02:09 PM
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Oooh, Dennis Miller.... look out! There's a new rising star in conservative comedy!
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Old 02-27-2020, 05:06 PM
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Don't like the Washington Examiner, fine:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_mandela.html

Here is Biden saying it. And can we please have one fucking thread without bringing Trump into it? Let's stipulate, for the purposes of this thread, that Trump is a ridiculously insane liar, okay?

Now, is there any truth at all to this Biden statement? He says he was "arrested on the streets."
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:34 PM
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Using Firefox's Ctrl-F option, I have found a total of three (3) instances of the offensive word in this thread. Here are all three, reddened by myself to stand out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
...
Before I get jumped on for excusing Trump for lying or being stupid, it is entirely possible to hold both in contempt for stupidity and lying....
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
... And can we please have one fucking thread without bringing Trump into it? Let's stipulate, for the purposes of this thread, that Trump is a ridiculously insane liar, okay?
@ UltraVires - Instead of a general injunction, perhaps your remark should have been directed at Kearsen1 specifically.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:33 PM
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Now, is there any truth at all to this Biden statement? He says he was "arrested on the streets."
What do you think?
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:53 PM
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I think this might be the proof we've all been afraid of that liberals are hypocrites.

Many dopers of the past will sleep well tonight knowing their mission is finally complete.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:59 PM
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To answer the question directly: he does it because he is someone who lies. I think he should be ashamed of telling such an obvious lie, but I know that's never stopped people like that before.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:43 PM
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Maybe he's simply a victim of the Mandela effect.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:21 PM
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I find it fascinating how Biden is always criticized for his tall tales, but when he talks about getting the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired that is taken as unquestionable gospel truth.
Him bragging about how he got the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired is on video all over the internet. How you ever tried to find it to confirm for yourself that it actually happened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:23 AM
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Him bragging about how he got the Prosecutor General of Ukraine fired is on video all over the internet. How you ever tried to find it to confirm for yourself that it actually happened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
Video of him saying he was arrested for trying to visit Mandela is also all over the Internet. So, I guess that happened too.

Right?
  #33  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:41 AM
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Biden clarified this morning on CNN, saying the black delegates were being lead through the "Black Only" doors while he was being lead taken through "White Only" doors, of the terminal. He refused to be separated by the SA authorities so he corrected his previous statement from "arrested" to "stopped"... from being permitted to go with the rest of the US representatives. They reached a compromised and went in through a restaurant service entrance.

So yeah, Biden didn't exactly cover himself in glory with the initial lie or the subsequent correction. What a dumb thing to exaggerate about. Would it not have been better to tell the story as it really happened?
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Old 02-28-2020, 03:53 PM
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I propose that the mods change the title of the thread to: Presidential candidate admits error: is this unprecedented?
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:15 PM
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I can see that honesty and personal integrity are important issues with you. So here's what I recommend; next November you vote for the candidate who has told the fewest lies.
That will almost certainly be one of the third-party candidates.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:27 PM
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Video of him saying he was arrested for trying to visit Mandela is also all over the Internet. So, I guess that happened too.

Right?
Are you saying the video is faked?
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:37 PM
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That will almost certainly be one of the third-party candidates.
Nope. You won't be able to vote at all. I am pretty sure there is no one running for any office at all who has told no lies, this year or any other year.
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:04 PM
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Maybe he's simply a victim of the Mandela effect.
Hah! Interesting coincidence.
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Old 02-29-2020, 07:17 AM
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Nope. You won't be able to vote at all. I am pretty sure there is no one running for any office at all who has told no lies, this year or any other year.
If the standard was no lies, which it wasn't, I doubt anyone of us would be able to find someone. Mother Teresa died some time ago.
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Old 02-29-2020, 07:23 AM
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Biden clarified this morning on CNN, saying the black delegates were being lead through the "Black Only" doors while he was being lead taken through "White Only" doors, of the terminal. He refused to be separated by the SA authorities so he corrected his previous statement from "arrested" to "stopped"... from being permitted to go with the rest of the US representatives. They reached a compromised and went in through a restaurant service entrance.

So yeah, Biden didn't exactly cover himself in glory with the initial lie or the subsequent correction. What a dumb thing to exaggerate about. Would it not have been better to tell the story as it really happened?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/28/polit...ntv/index.html

Wow. That's positively amazing. So I guess when I checked into a hotel last week and they told me I couldn't use the priority members check in, that I had to use a different line, the hotel placed me under arrest.

This isn't just a misstatement, it is an outright lie. Further, he earlier said he was arrested "on the streets of Soweto" not in an airport. He also said that the UN ambassador was arrested along with him.
  #41  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:24 AM
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If the standard was no lies, which it wasn't, I doubt anyone of us would be able to find someone. Mother Teresa died some time ago.
Even she was accused of some fraudulent practices, such as secretly baptizing Muslims and Hindus in her care.
  #42  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:30 AM
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/28/polit...ntv/index.html

Wow. That's positively amazing. So I guess when I checked into a hotel last week and they told me I couldn't use the priority members check in, that I had to use a different line, the hotel placed me under arrest.

This isn't just a misstatement, it is an outright lie. Further, he earlier said he was arrested "on the streets of Soweto" not in an airport. He also said that the UN ambassador was arrested along with him.
Holy shit! A politician caught in an outright lie!

Wasn't Biden also accused of plagiarism during his first run for president back in the '80s?

So, either he's lying or mis-remembers (see the reference to the Mandela effect above), but in any case, I agree he should stop telling this bullshit story, now that he knows for certain that it's false.

I'm certain you agree that politicians who repeatedly tell debunked lies should not be elected, right?
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Old 02-29-2020, 07:43 AM
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Nope. You won't be able to vote at all. I am pretty sure there is no one running for any office at all who has told no lies, this year or any other year.
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Originally Posted by RitterSport View Post
Even she was accused of some fraudulent practices, such as secretly baptizing Muslims and Hindus in her care.
"Accused." What we do know that she took the destitute and dying off the streets of Calcutta and gave them a safe, clean place to live. Food, medical attention, and love. Maybe, as accused, she placed a wet towel on a dying person's head and called it a baptism - who knows. But this wasn't self-serving, like Biden's lie, this and the other stuff was an attempt at other serving. I can't believe we're even comparing it two.
  #44  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:48 AM
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...I can't believe we're even comparing it two.
The issues with Mother Teresa definitely belong in another thread. But, you're the one who was comparing the two.
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Old 02-29-2020, 08:13 AM
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The issues with Mother Teresa definitely belong in another thread. But, you're the one who was comparing the two.
Oh bullshit. Go read the post again. I said that Mother Teresa died some time ago if you're looking for someone who didn't lie. And I actually said that in jest. Biden has a history of lying. I would never compare those two.
  #46  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:33 AM
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...And I actually said that in jest. ....
And it was hilarious! My side!
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