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Old 05-05-2020, 08:31 PM
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Ham-a-lama-ding-dong attempts to make more bank from the rubes...


Jumpin' Jebus onna cracker...

Take it away, Hemet:

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...ark-encounter/

Why not set up a Silver Solution and MMS kiosks too? Or offer Samaritans Purse 'insurance'? Oh, riiiight, those assholes would be stealing from poor ol' Kenmeister to line their pockets
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:34 PM
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Fools and their money etc etc.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:38 PM
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I'd rather stick an ice pick in my eye.
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:51 PM
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I’d rather stick an ice pick in Ken Ham’s eye.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:55 AM
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It's a fantasy park. Disney for fundies.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:59 AM
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I'm not a fan of threads where I have to click a link to find out what the thread is about.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:22 PM
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So these lifetime pass, is if for the life time of the purchaser or the lifetime of the park?

I suspect that in most cases the latter is likely to be much shorter than the former, probably measured in months. Although, under the assumption that those who believe that god will save them are unlikely to follow social distancing guidelines, the former could be pretty short as well.

This is clearly a sign of desperation on the part of those owning the museum. Forgoing future profits in favor of a quick infux of cash that they hope will be enough to keep the lights on and an animatronic Jesus horses moving to put off inevitable as long as possible.
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Old 05-06-2020, 05:29 PM
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So these lifetime pass, is if for the life time of the purchaser or the lifetime of the park?
Maybe they should sell an afterlife-time pass.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:26 PM
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So these lifetime pass, is if for the life time of the purchaser or the lifetime of the park?

I suspect that in most cases the latter is likely to be much shorter than the former, probably measured in months. Although, under the assumption that those who believe that god will save them are unlikely to follow social distancing guidelines, the former could be pretty short as well.

This is clearly a sign of desperation on the part of those owning the museum. Forgoing future profits in favor of a quick infux of cash that they hope will be enough to keep the lights on and an animatronic Jesus horses moving to put off inevitable as long as possible.
I'm a Christian non-Young Earther, and I'm personally surprised that place hasn't already gone keel-up. PBS recently showed a doco about how the nearby town thought it would create revenue for businesses like motels, diners, ice cream parlors, etc. and that hasn't happened either. Even the gas stations haven't seen an uptick in business! I don't even think local churches have received requests for groups to stay there cheap (we used to do this when I was in the Girl Scouts, at churches or even the great room at a local Y).

$300 for a lifetime pass? That I could understand, but $3,000? They must be needing a cash infusion, and think this is the way to do it. That said, that's about how much you'd have to PAY ME to go there.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 05-06-2020 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:30 PM
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I'm not a fan of threads where I have to click a link to find out what the thread is about.
Between the word "Ham" in the title, and "ark encounter" at the end of the link, I had a pretty good idea what it was about.
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Old 05-06-2020, 06:44 PM
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Rats! The Ark has been on my road trip bucket list since it opened. The way things are going, it'll close down before I get a chance to visit. I did get within 60 miles on my last trip but had to pass it up because of horrible weather...kind of ironic, I suppose.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:28 PM
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Sorry, I don’t get the outrage. I mean, I would only visit if I could point and laugh, and would certainly not pay for even that. But they are making a very clear offer: $3k for lifetime visits, however short that lifetime is. It is a defined benefit, even though to me the value of this would be 2-5 orders of magnitude less.
Contrast this with many other types of woo being sold. From essential oils to crystals. In those cases, the actual item (oil, shiny rock) is exchanged, but something else is sold: all kind of unproven benefits.

The first is just capitalism. You can choose to buy it, or not buy it, but what you’re buying is clear. If you want to take your quiver full on the exact same outing 10 times in a row, have at it.
The second is shysterism, and way more deserving of scorn.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:06 PM
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Sorry, I donít get the outrage. I mean, I would only visit if I could point and laugh, and would certainly not pay for even that.
They kick out people who do that.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:55 PM
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If you're dumb enough to pay that kind of money for something like that, hey, that's your stupid problem.

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They kick out people who do that.
Seriously? Do they at least give them their money back?
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:05 PM
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If you're dumb enough to pay that kind of money for something like that, hey, that's your stupid problem.



Seriously? Do they at least give them their money back?
Why would they give back their only true God?
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
So these lifetime pass, is if for the life time of the purchaser or the lifetime of the park?

I suspect that in most cases the latter is likely to be much shorter than the former, probably measured in months. Although, under the assumption that those who believe that god will save them are unlikely to follow social distancing guidelines, the former could be pretty short as well.

This is clearly a sign of desperation on the part of those owning the museum. Forgoing future profits in favor of a quick infux of cash that they hope will be enough to keep the lights on and an animatronic Jesus horses moving to put off inevitable as long as possible.
The Creation Museum opened in 2007. It seems to have seen some severe dips in paid attendance in some years, but it's been in operation for 13 years now, and overall seems to have been operating without major financial difficulties, prior to the current COVID crisis. Of course, the current crisis is unprecedented, and it's certainly possible the Creation Museum won't survive it, but honestly I would be surprised if it went belly up in the next few months.

The Ark Encounter is a different story. It never lived up to the hype, and it has been clearly struggling financially since it opened. The COVID crisis could well be the final nail in its coffin. Unless an angel investor swoops in (pun intended) - which is certainly possible - its lifetime might well be measured in months.

Yes, clearly both are desperate. What tourist destination or mass entertainment venue isn't desperate right now? Still, they don't really seem to be passing up much if any future profit. As the linked blog points out, a family of four would have to attend 18 times to make a lifetime pass worthwhile. And while Ken Ham had big plans to make the Ark Encounter a massive edutainment complex, in their present form neither the Ark Encounter nor the Creation Museum has much value as a repeat destination. Certainly nothing to plan an annual vacation around as many families do with Disney World or Land, for example.

But I'm with Isosleepy here. There doesn't seem to be any deception involved here. A very clear offer with very clear terms is being made. If you don't want to spend $3000 for a lifetime pass to the Creation Museum, I certainly don't blame you - I don't either. But I also wouldn't spend $3000 for season tickets for a sports team, and I don't recall anyone Pitting a sports franchise for fleecing "rubes" for charging them far more than that for a mere single season pass.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:16 PM
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That's because going to a sporting event is something a reasonably rational person would do, getting a different experience each time But this is the Ark Encounter. Getting a ticket that would cost more than going there 18 times makes no sense even if you were scientifically illiterate enough to buy that crap.

The subject matter, well, matters.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:03 AM
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That's because going to a sporting event is something a reasonably rational person would do, getting a different experience each time But this is the Ark Encounter. Getting a ticket that would cost more than going there 18 times makes no sense even if you were scientifically illiterate enough to buy that crap.

The subject matter, well, matters.
That was part of the point I was making in my reply to Buck Godot. They claimed that the Ark Encounter was forgoing future profits in return for a quick influx of cash. I agree that repeat visits aren't going to be an attractive option even for most people that enjoy the venue, so this offer probably doesn't exchange future profits for a quick influx of cash. I think your argument is really with Buck Godot, not me.

As to whether it's worth $3000...well, again, it's not worth it to me. But that doesn't mean it's not worth it to someone. I picked the season ticket example as literally the first thing that came to my mind. My point was, there are a lot of experiences that people pay far more than $3000 to have, which I wouldn't even if I had the money. Heck, a lot of people pay tens of thousands of dollars for experiences that you'd have to pay me to even consider participating in. That doesn't make them irrational or rubes. It just makes them people with different tastes and interests.

I can think of any number of "rational" reasons why this offer might be attractive to someone. Maybe they're looking forward to taking different groups of friends and family on different trips to share the experience with them, maybe even different future generations of their family. Maybe they support the mission of the Ark Encounter, and they want to support it so it's there for others and for future generations, and maybe they just like the idea that it's going to be there if they want to return at some point. Maybe they just value the bragging rights and virtue signalling from being a "lifetime member". Certainly, there are a lot of people who have donated a lot more money to museums, operas, and other cultural institutions for less tangible benefit, without being Pitted as "rubes".

And maybe, for some people, going to the Ark Encounter is such a genuinely moving experience that they want to experience it over and over and over again. By all indications, attendance has been disappointing, but it's still had tens of thousands of visitors. If even 100 of them would want to visit year after year, the offer could raise significant funds that could help tide the Ark over (pun intended) during the current crisis, while providing good value to the lifetime pass holder.

Ultimately, of course, this offer may simply not result in much of any revenue. In fact, I expect that it won't. But I don't understand what makes it Pit-worthy.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:57 AM
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Rats! The Ark has been on my road trip bucket list since it opened. The way things are going, it'll close down before I get a chance to visit. I did get within 60 miles on my last trip but had to pass it up because of horrible weather...kind of ironic, I suppose.
Wouldn't that have been the best place to be during horrible weather?
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:16 AM
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a ticket that would cost more than 18 times makes no sense even if you were scientifically illiterate.
Actuaĺly, it does make sense---for the museum owners who need the cash.
They know their customers:
People who are scientifically illiterate , and therefor mathematically illiterate, too.

So both sides end up happy, right?

Last edited by chappachula; 05-08-2020 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:41 AM
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Wouldn't that have been the best place to be during horrible weather?
Heh. Well, being inside the Ark, yeah...but getting to it was another issue entirely. The area forecast was for heavy thunderstorms with potentially damaging hail, so I went in the opposite direction!

Last edited by blondebear; 05-08-2020 at 11:42 AM.
  #22  
Old 05-08-2020, 12:16 PM
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That's because going to a sporting event is something a reasonably rational person would do, getting a different experience each time But this is the Ark Encounter. Getting a ticket that would cost more than going there 18 times makes no sense even if you were scientifically illiterate enough to buy that crap.

The subject matter, well, matters.
De gustibus non disputandem.

Some people like museums and don't like sports. I'm not interested in the Creation Museum, but if I were choosing between going to 18 sporting events and 18 trips to the same museum I liked, I'd probably choose the museum.

Also, don't discount the value to people of just supporting causes they like. If Biblical literalism is a core belief and you think the museum is a good way to spread the word, buying a $3000 pass to the museum is probably more of a charitable donation to a cause you support than an up-front purchase of future tickets.

I have season tickets to musical theater shows. We have seats in the front row of the hoi polloi section. The people who sit 5 feet closer than we do pay like 5x as much for their tickets. They're not doing it because sitting 5 feet closer is worth that much more. They're doing it because they want to support the institution of musical theater.

We have an annual pass to the zoo. There are annual passes that cost 100 times as much as the one we have. The people who buy those are doing so because they want to support the zoo, not because whatever perks they get above the normal annual pass are worth $15,000 a year.
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Old 05-08-2020, 01:13 PM
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Wouldn't that have been the best place to be during horrible weather?
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Heh. Well, being inside the Ark, {...}
Well, if your desire was to be in a boat shaped, non-floating, building then Ham's '''Ark''' fits the bill . . . not drowning in a flood on the other hand...

CMC fnord!
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Old 05-09-2020, 12:38 AM
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I thought this was a Becky thread.
  #25  
Old 05-10-2020, 01:21 AM
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I'm living in an Ark.
Animals and grand-wreks come 2◊2 around these here parts.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2020, 04:03 PM
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But I'm with Isosleepy here. There doesn't seem to be any deception involved here. A very clear offer with very clear terms is being made. If you don't want to spend $3000 for a lifetime pass to the Creation Museum, I certainly don't blame you - I don't either. But I also wouldn't spend $3000 for season tickets for a sports team, and I don't recall anyone Pitting a sports franchise for fleecing "rubes" for charging them far more than that for a mere single season pass.
I feel there may be a little deception here in the implied promise that the park will remain open long enough for a lifetime pass to have value. Ham has stated the park has been in financial trouble since before the current medical crisis. I think it's likely that some of the people who buy these lifetime passes won't even be able to use them the twenty times it would take for them to break even.
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