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  #151  
Old 10-20-2016, 06:50 PM
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A $60 pre-order gets you all het up but this doesn't? The mind boggles.
Unless you want another warning, drop this. For one, you were told to drop it in the original thread, but for two, this doesn't even have any bearing on THIS thread. Don't bring up other topics/posts in threads not about them, please.

If you are really still upset over it, make a Pit thread.

SenorBeef, please don't get yourself into trouble by replying. Make a Pit thread, one of you, if you want to start quibbling with each other.

Last edited by Idle Thoughts; 10-20-2016 at 06:50 PM.
  #152  
Old 10-20-2016, 08:12 PM
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I'm not being hostile. Thought that was allowed.
  #153  
Old 10-20-2016, 08:21 PM
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I think it's an emotional investment the investors have-they have literally spent too much time and too much money to admit that they blew it and, like a gambler that has blown the paycheck and should have left the casino many hours ago, they feel the only way they can retain their honor is to double-down on the bet and pray it pays off.
Fun game: the dollar auction. If you don't want to read it, the way it works is you auction off $1.00 to the highest bidder, which can be a bid as little as a penny. The only catch is, if your bid is second highest, you still have to pay. That is, if the winning bid is $0.25, and you bid $0.24, the winning bidder pays a quarter and gets the dollar, and you pay $0.24 and get nothing.

I've done it with students (with points they'd earned in another game, instead of with real money). The article's description of the shift in mood is exactly what happens.

Wonder if that's what's going on here?
  #154  
Old 10-20-2016, 09:35 PM
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I'm not being hostile. Thought that was allowed.
Bringing up bickering from another, outside thread (especially one you were warned over) in a different thread usually isn't allowed, no.

Please make a thread in ATMB if you have any further questions or want to contest the note or ask about it further.
  #155  
Old 10-21-2016, 12:08 PM
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$750 for a ship is pretty silly. But as a backer who has pledged over $200 over time I can share a bit of my personal experience.

It started innocent enough. When the game was first announced I was pretty excited, and backed the game with a starter package. Over time my excitement has waxed and waned, but from time to time there would seem to be some decent progress and Iíd end up trading up. Their store system makes it very easy to exchange you package for something else through store credit. So after a while I find myself having spent more than I had planned, because each step seemed incremental.

Would I do it all over again? No, probably not. Seeing the release date slip and the feature bloat, it isnít really what I was expecting. But I donít really regret spending it. The developers have been pretty open about everything, and while there has been a lot of hype, they havenít shown anything thatís misleading. Pretty much everything theyíve shown in demonstrations previously has been released to the public in the alpha test. Iím still hopeful that the final product will be good, even if it ends up being many years later than originally promised.

The development process of this game has been pretty interesting to see. The amount of behind the scenes content being released is huge. I think it is pretty unique in game development, in that itís almost like a reality show. They in fact produced an actual reality show, as a contest to design a ship that will appear in the final game (the team I was rooting for lost). I think itís been both a boon and a handicap to the developers. While theyíve attracted a lot of die-hard fans, theyíve also gotten a lot of criticism. It made the hype train worse and probably added to the partisanship of the fans and critics. Yes, a lot of fans will bash any hints of criticism, probably at least in part because theyíre way too invested in this game, but I think the opposite is also true, that some critics are overly critical because of the backlash against the hype.

Anyways, for myself, Iíve settled into a Ďwait and seeí attitude. The latest tech demos shown are genuinely impressive, and while I have always been annoyed by the overly priced ships, itís true that nobody actually needs to buy them. The basic package is I believe $45 which will let you try the alpha client, and there are occasional promotions where anyone can try it without pledging.

In the end I think there is a difference between pre-ordering a game and pledging to support the development of a game. Whether or not it is actually good for gamers, I donít know. But I have gotten some enjoyment out of seeing the process of the crowdfunding and development, and thereís always the chance that the game will turn out to be good. And if not, well thatíll be entertaining in a whole different way.
  #156  
Old 10-21-2016, 03:09 PM
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I only have the basic package of this, I think anyway, I need to check. But I certainly haven't spent multiple hundreds on it. OTOH, I ended up spending over $800 on Shroud of the Avatar. Knight Marshal I think. I could have easily spent more with more time. Thank ghu there wasn't more time.
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  #157  
Old 10-21-2016, 04:18 PM
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Fall 2016 Free Fly is now active.

This means that you can get in game yourselves, without paying anything, and have a look around at what they've got available at the moment.

Click here to get started.
  #158  
Old 10-21-2016, 04:31 PM
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Fall 2016 Free Fly is now active.

This means that you can get in game yourselves, without paying anything, and have a look around at what they've got available at the moment.

Click here to get started.
What are the current hardware and software requirements for running this game?
  #159  
Old 10-21-2016, 04:50 PM
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There's a list here

My CPU doesn't quite meet the Recommended specs, and it's a bit slow and jittery in places. From the sound of it, though, it's a bit slow and jittery in places for everyone. It is alpha, after all.
  #160  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:44 PM
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Out of curiosity, I did some research into the full history of Star Citizen.

The game is doomed. I guess "Vaporware" is the wrong term, because "vaporware" doesn't really fit the business moderl Star Citizen is being built under. "Ponzi scheme" is also not exactly right, because I think Chris Roberts really is trying to produce a game. But it's become a fundraising effort, not a game design.

This is going to end very, very badly.
  #161  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:10 PM
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It's been just over five years since the first public reveal and, compared to the stated goals, there's still virtually nothing for the public to actually take home to play. Seems the notion that this game has a strong possibility of not meeting its such lofty expectations, if even ever released in any meaningful way, is quite troubling for some people.
  #162  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:23 PM
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Latest fact-check update. Read it and weep.
  #163  
Old 10-31-2016, 01:37 PM
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Out of curiosity, I did some research into the full history of Star Citizen.

The game is doomed. I guess "Vaporware" is the wrong term, because "vaporware" doesn't really fit the business moderl Star Citizen is being built under. "Ponzi scheme" is also not exactly right, because I think Chris Roberts really is trying to produce a game. But it's become a fundraising effort, not a game design.

This is going to end very, very badly.

This is sort of like posting "I did some research on the Hillary campaign guys. I'm not going to get into any details, but she's going to lose big. The whole thing is a sham"

If you're going to post that, you might as well share your reasoning.

I don't know why anyone keeps up with the day to day development of any game, anyway. It just makes people miserable. They get so invested in it and then impatient and any delay or flaw or change in planned feature upsets them.

That said: ambitious game development takes time. CoD and Assassin's Creed crank out similar games every two years - that's two years for a basic iteration of the same formula for the same engine. (They release every year, because they're alternating two development studios).

Something like GTA 5, which is more ambitious than those games, but not nearly as ambitious as Star Citizen, took 5 years. It's just that they normally don't announce the game until 6 months to a year before it's ready for release, so you aren't sitting there for 5 years impatiently growing angry that this game you've hyped yourself up for isn't being delivered. So when you're used to games being released 6-12 months after they're announced, this seems like it's taking way abnormally long and there must be something horrible wrong.

Star Citizen is basically the most ambitious game of all time, by a large margin - way bigger than something like GTA 5 which took 5 years. From what I've heard, while they did start working on the project 5 years ago, they didn't know the scope of the money they'd raise for the first year or year and a half, and they basically scrapped what they'd done at that point to re-scope the game to be bigger. So full time development of what the game is now has only been going on for about 3 years.

It's also unsurprising that there's not a lot out there that's playable by players. That doesn't mean it's nowhere near completion. Some games, basically early access type games, are designed to have a playable version of it available through all stages of development where they iteratively add to a basically complete gameplay loop. Others aren't - having a user-playable version throughout development isn't important and they create all the different components independently in a way that only cohesively comes together towards the end. The latter is actually probably the typical way it goes when building a new project. The development path of a game where you can essentially play it as early access is unusual and generally slows down development since you have to worry about the player experience at every stage of partial development, not just for the final product.

It may be a failure, I don't know. I personally haven't invested a cent into it. But if someone were to make a huge, ambitious game where they announced the development from the start, this is exactly what it would look like. It would take a long ass time, many times longer than the typical announcement to release cycle of conventionally funded games. So it makes no sense to say "look how long it's taken! the user-playable portion are only small components of the overall game! this game is going to be a failure!" when so far it looks exactly like you'd expect the development to look like.
  #164  
Old 10-31-2016, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
http://gameranx.com/updates/id/73286...f-star-citizen

The Star Citizen project got a new California office by November 2015 (at least it was under construction by that point). For reasons unknown, Roberts decided to move his operation to a place with spaceship decorations and adornments from top to bottom. As it was stated way back in the Holiday Livestream of 2014, they moved to this new location because it had more conference space, room for a motion capture studio, and room for a normal filming set-up. But on top of all that, they went all out with decor in this studio. The most obvious of these examples is the fact that they decided to make a door* thatís designed to look like something from one of Robertsí ships.

:snip:

When it comes to video game development, Star CitizenĎs team is not only comprised of people. They need a building to make it all happen. This is the place where the staff spends their work week (and then some) trying to make the vision of Chris Roberts come to life. But what has been overlooked are the road bumps that happened to the Los Angeles studio itself. One of the obstacles is a legal battle over the construction work thatís been done to it.

:snip:

[T]he question of ďAre backer funds used to cover legal expenses?Ē is now on the table.
*Estimated cost of said door + installation? $21,000.
  #165  
Old 10-31-2016, 02:12 PM
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Latest fact-check update. Read it and weep.
Star Citizen is the future of PC gaming, and always will be!
  #166  
Old 10-31-2016, 02:30 PM
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This is no longer even a game. It's a never ending vanity project.
  #167  
Old 10-31-2016, 03:28 PM
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Latest fact-check update. Read it and weep.
Most of what I got out of that is that Derek Smart is a F-ing jerk.
  #168  
Old 10-31-2016, 03:43 PM
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Most of what I got out of that is that Derek Smart is a F-ing jerk.
Try this instead: You don’t even need to understand game development to know what a god damn mess looks like. Assuming there's ever a complete release of any sort, how many backers will find themselves with a computer that is no longer capable of running the game?

Last edited by Skywatcher; 10-31-2016 at 03:46 PM.
  #169  
Old 10-31-2016, 03:44 PM
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Most of what I got out of that is that Derek Smart is a F-ing jerk.
1. Did he get any of the facts wrong in that article?
2. have you changed your mind about the game since this post?
  #170  
Old 10-31-2016, 04:32 PM
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1. Did he get any of the facts wrong in that article?
Nope, but several of his comments gave me creepy GamerGate-esque heebie jeebies.

Quote:
2. have you changed your mind about the game since this post?
Nope. I remain, as ever, glad I had the measure of foresight to see that Mr. Roberts was promising well beyond his ability to deliver.
  #171  
Old 10-31-2016, 05:37 PM
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I managed to get my pre-order refunded a few months back after a few emails back and forth and me giving links to the relevant Australian consumer law to them.

After it was refunded they deleted my account completely (which I didn't ask for - I would have been happy to purchase the game once it was released and working) and they appear to have blocked my email from being used to sign up for another one.

A little too much 'if you're not with us you're against us' attitude for my liking.
  #172  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:30 AM
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Latest fact-check update. Read it and weep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
1. Did he get any of the facts wrong in that article?
2. have you changed your mind about the game since this post?
It was a great article right until this sentence:

Quote:
My involvement is no different from any number of causes that people pick up and champion. Be it immigration reform, banking reform, save the whales, anti-vac etc.
Anyone who compares his own cause to the anti-vaxxers has shot himself in the foot, or more accurately blown his leg off somewhere around mid-thigh.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 11-01-2016 at 08:31 AM. Reason: quoted wrong post
  #173  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:45 AM
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Speaking as an IT professional - you can't finish a project that is constantly changing and growing. It's impossible. That's a fundamental truth of the industry.

Someone sane needs to be in a position of authority over this to say "No, we're not adding more features until we've built something." And there's nobody.
  #174  
Old 11-01-2016, 09:48 AM
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This is sort of like posting "I did some research on the Hillary campaign guys. I'm not going to get into any details, but she's going to lose big. The whole thing is a sham"

If you're going to post that, you might as well share your reasoning.
In short, because the business model smells terrible.

You're correct in that very large games take a long time to develop. "BioShock Infinite" took five years to make, to use a big-budget example. Big things take a long time to make. You can't make a big budget movie in a couple of months, either. Now, Star Citizen is at five years and doesn't appear to be close to release, but let's assume a game of this ambition takes seven years, or whatever. It's not that I find dubious, it's that it's being funded exactly the way you would fund a scam.

The thing is, BioShock Infinite - or GTA V, or any other big game - were not funded in development by having the prospective customers pay hundreds of dollars for pictures of imaginary ships. They were funded by soberly run companies that expected a return on their investment. Companies that, if they were not given material evidence of progress towards a sellable product, would cheerily kill the program and fire the developers.

Yes, I know Kickstarter and the like are a new way of looking at project development, but as you well know this is now way past that sort of thing where you get people to chip in ten bucks to a little project. This is on a different plane. The manner on which Star Citizen earns its money is precisely the manner in which a Nigerian 419 scammer earns their money; it is following the path of a confidence trick.

1. An amazing treasure is promised (in this case, what would in theory be the greatest PC game ever made.)

2. The mark is invited into the confidence of the scammer. They are told they can be special and different - a member of the Squadron, possessed of special things the newbs won't have, and all that sort of thing.

3. Props and razzmatazz are used to convince the mark of the reality of the treasure (demos, the fancy website, pictures of ships, technical requirements and the other traits of a large budget video game.)

4. The mark is asked for a small investment.

5. Once the mark has invested some money, promises of progress towards the treasure are made. As progress is made, the mark is asked for more money, with explanations as to why the money is needed. (In this case, "Stretch goals.")

Obviously this isn't a perfect analogy, because in a classic confidence scam you would not know the actual identity of the scammer and his shills. I really don't think Chris Roberts is out to scam anyone, but the way in which his company is draining the same people for money based on the promise of virtual treasures is indicative of a situation where Mr. Roberts is in serious, serious trouble and he knows it. Perhaps not legally - I am sure they've got their bases reasonably well covered - but businesswise this has every indication of being a case where a business incapable of completing the job has gotten themselves in over their heads.

I have a lot of trouble coming up with any other logical explanation as to why Roberts has reached the point where he's asking hard core marks for $750 for an imaginary ship. (And I do mean imaginary; the "Polaris" ship is just a picture, not actually a thing they've built in the game.) A legitimate business enterprise doesn't keep asking for donations from customers based on empty promises; a legitimate business enterprise finds money from legitimate revenue streams, investors, or loans. There is nothing about the "please give us a lot of money and I promise one day you might have this awesome, awesome ship that presently is not remotely close to being a thing" pitch that should inspire confidence. Everything about that says "This is a business in desperate, desperate trouble."

Last edited by RickJay; 11-01-2016 at 09:49 AM.
  #175  
Old 11-01-2016, 10:06 AM
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Speaking as an IT professional - you can't finish a project that is constantly changing and growing. It's impossible. That's a fundamental truth of the industry.

Someone sane needs to be in a position of authority over this to say "No, we're not adding more features until we've built something." And there's nobody.
Seems to me that Chris Roberts has been trying to play catch-up with Elite: Dangerous and failing. Hard.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-01-2016 at 10:06 AM.
  #176  
Old 11-01-2016, 10:29 AM
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Now, I'm not into game development, but I've never heard of game patches announced for games that have yet to be released before. I recall seeing patches for games after they have been released to the public, but is 55 patches(to date so far) a normal thing for an unreleased game?
  #177  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:10 PM
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Now, I'm not into game development, but I've never heard of game patches announced for games that have yet to be released before. I recall seeing patches for games after they have been released to the public, but is 55 patches(to date so far) a normal thing for an unreleased game?
Yes, completely. You don't think games bring from the minds of their developers in complete, flawless, bug free code, do you?

The fact that there are patches is about the only sane thing about this game.
  #178  
Old 11-01-2016, 01:18 PM
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Yes, completely. You don't think games bring from the minds of their developers in complete, flawless, bug free code, do you?

The fact that there are patches is about the only sane thing about this game.
But it's not a game yet. I've heard of games being in development, but I've never heard of the creation of a game being called a constant series of "patches". When I picked up Diablo II I'm sure it went through a lot of changes and development before it was released to the public, but the first patch was released after the game went on the market.
  #179  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:36 PM
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But it's not a game yet. I've heard of games being in development, but I've never heard of the creation of a game being called a constant series of "patches". When I picked up Diablo II I'm sure it went through a lot of changes and development before it was released to the public, but the first patch was released after the game went on the market.
This makes no sense. You interate on any software product in a series of patches (and "full releases"). What do you call going from version 0.5.2 to 0.5.3 if not a "patch"? The term "patch" has nothing to do with pre vs post release.
  #180  
Old 11-01-2016, 02:47 PM
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0.*.*-I can see that as being pre-release, but I can't find record of other games releasing patches to this extent for a game that doesn't even have a projected release date. If you could show me an example, so that I could see that it actually does happen on a regular basis?
  #181  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:01 PM
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Hey, Mods: Any chance we could get a strikeout line through the "And it's free to play this week" part of the title? That hasn't been true for months, and this thread still shows up high in the thread list.
  #182  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:18 PM
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0.*.*-I can see that as being pre-release, but I can't find record of other games releasing patches to this extent for a game that doesn't even have a projected release date. If you could show me an example, so that I could see that it actually does happen on a regular basis?
I feel like we're getting hung up on semantics here; Every time you add a new feature to your build, it's technically a "patch" or a new version, or something. So you get lots of patches/versions/whatever.

I can't point you to an example because most games don't publish their Alpha-level patch notes. But why would development during the Alpha phase be any different from how things work in the "beta" phase, which you can easily see by looking at the list of patches for any Early Access game on Steam?
  #183  
Old 11-01-2016, 03:34 PM
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Pretty sure Czar is simply pointing out that the patch notes for Star Citizen amounts to little more than busywork so backers feel like Chris Roberts is actually doing something with their money. Other than furnishing his new LA digs.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 11-01-2016 at 03:35 PM.
  #184  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:07 PM
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Pretty sure Czar is simply pointing out that the patch notes for Star Citizen amounts to little more than busywork so backers feel like Chris Roberts is actually doing something with their money. Other than furnishing his new LA digs.
The word "patch" evokes the feeling of an extant product. "Development update" does not. So they call them patches.

I have to stress that for all my honest negativity, it's obvious Star Citizen would in theory be the coolest thing ever, if it was actually a functioning game. But this isn't going to happen, not well, anyway. Perhaps it's simply that the technology doesn't exist, or that it's going to require a company that actually has some money to make a similar game happen. Maybe it takes a few tries before someone nails it.

Clearly, there is a market for a game like this. "No Man's Sky" was released to incredible fanfare and subsequent incredible disappointment. "Eve" has plodded along cheerily for years, and "Elite: Dangerous" is around, too. Someone will fill this market space sooner or later.
  #185  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:20 PM
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I have to stress that for all my honest negativity, it's obvious Star Citizen would in theory be the coolest thing ever, if it was actually a functioning game. But this isn't going to happen, not well, anyway.
As I said 115 posts ago:
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Spore, in space.
  #186  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:24 PM
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But it's not a game yet. I've heard of games being in development, but I've never heard of the creation of a game being called a constant series of "patches". When I picked up Diablo II I'm sure it went through a lot of changes and development before it was released to the public, but the first patch was released after the game went on the market.
Patch does not imply post release in any way, there were hundreds of patches to that diablo game before you ever got your hands on it.
  #187  
Old 11-01-2016, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Latest fact-check update. Read it and weep.
...I think that the whole Star Citizen thing is a giant boondoogle as well. But you are citing Derek Smart. Its a bit like citing Alex Jones on his opinion on what happened on 9/11.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:15 PM
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...I think that the whole Star Citizen thing is a giant boondoogle as well. But you are citing Derek Smart. Its a bit like citing Alex Jones on his opinion on what happened on 9/11.
More like asking William Rodriguez on his opinion on what happened on 9/11.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:25 PM
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In short, because the business model smells terrible.

You're correct in that very large games take a long time to develop. "BioShock Infinite" took five years to make, to use a big-budget example. Big things take a long time to make. You can't make a big budget movie in a couple of months, either. Now, Star Citizen is at five years and doesn't appear to be close to release, but let's assume a game of this ambition takes seven years, or whatever. It's not that I find dubious, it's that it's being funded exactly the way you would fund a scam.

The thing is, BioShock Infinite - or GTA V, or any other big game - were not funded in development by having the prospective customers pay hundreds of dollars for pictures of imaginary ships. They were funded by soberly run companies that expected a return on their investment. Companies that, if they were not given material evidence of progress towards a sellable product, would cheerily kill the program and fire the developers.

Yes, I know Kickstarter and the like are a new way of looking at project development, but as you well know this is now way past that sort of thing where you get people to chip in ten bucks to a little project. This is on a different plane. The manner on which Star Citizen earns its money is precisely the manner in which a Nigerian 419 scammer earns their money; it is following the path of a confidence trick.

1. An amazing treasure is promised (in this case, what would in theory be the greatest PC game ever made.)

2. The mark is invited into the confidence of the scammer. They are told they can be special and different - a member of the Squadron, possessed of special things the newbs won't have, and all that sort of thing.

3. Props and razzmatazz are used to convince the mark of the reality of the treasure (demos, the fancy website, pictures of ships, technical requirements and the other traits of a large budget video game.)

4. The mark is asked for a small investment.

5. Once the mark has invested some money, promises of progress towards the treasure are made. As progress is made, the mark is asked for more money, with explanations as to why the money is needed. (In this case, "Stretch goals.")

Obviously this isn't a perfect analogy, because in a classic confidence scam you would not know the actual identity of the scammer and his shills. I really don't think Chris Roberts is out to scam anyone, but the way in which his company is draining the same people for money based on the promise of virtual treasures is indicative of a situation where Mr. Roberts is in serious, serious trouble and he knows it. Perhaps not legally - I am sure they've got their bases reasonably well covered - but businesswise this has every indication of being a case where a business incapable of completing the job has gotten themselves in over their heads.

I have a lot of trouble coming up with any other logical explanation as to why Roberts has reached the point where he's asking hard core marks for $750 for an imaginary ship. (And I do mean imaginary; the "Polaris" ship is just a picture, not actually a thing they've built in the game.) A legitimate business enterprise doesn't keep asking for donations from customers based on empty promises; a legitimate business enterprise finds money from legitimate revenue streams, investors, or loans. There is nothing about the "please give us a lot of money and I promise one day you might have this awesome, awesome ship that presently is not remotely close to being a thing" pitch that should inspire confidence. Everything about that says "This is a business in desperate, desperate trouble."
Adding to all that, there's also an element of MLM-marketing at work, as shown by the OP of this thread.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:29 PM
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Edit: Forgot the OP had a referral code or something edited out. Thought it was weird to call it MLM without that.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-01-2016 at 05:30 PM.
  #191  
Old 11-01-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Edit: Forgot the OP had a referral code or something edited out. Thought it was weird to call it MLM without that.
He posted a referral link instead of a direct link, in an effort to get in-game bennies-in effect it was pay to post.
  #192  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:04 PM
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In a strange way I kind of feel bad for Chris Roberts. Yes yes I know he's laughing all the way to the bank. But seriously, I feel like the Star Citizen is a victim of its own success. Had they made a good amount of money instead of the absurd amount of money actually raised, they would have simply made a great space flight simulator and called it a day. It probably would have been a great game. The problem was they got so much money they scope exploded, and then kept exploding and continues to explode to this day. There's no chance of this ever releasing in a state close to what has been promised, if it ever even releases at all.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 11-01-2016 at 06:04 PM.
  #193  
Old 11-02-2016, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Now, I'm not into game development, but I've never heard of game patches announced for games that have yet to be released before. I recall seeing patches for games after they have been released to the public, but is 55 patches(to date so far) a normal thing for an unreleased game?
The early days of Minecraft worked something like this.

Thing is, Star Citizen does have a release build, that backers can play, and it is regularly updated. It's not currently brilliant, but everytime I check it out more has been added, so it's definitely advancing.

I still wouldn't drop $750 on a picture of a ship though.

Edit: To be clear, early Minecraft released a lot of patches for an alpha game that had no planned release date. It did not continually ask for money for anything other than copies of the game.

Last edited by Teuton; 11-02-2016 at 04:16 AM.
  #194  
Old 11-02-2016, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BeepKillBeep View Post
In a strange way I kind of feel bad for Chris Roberts. Yes yes I know he's laughing all the way to the bank. But seriously, I feel like the Star Citizen is a victim of its own success. Had they made a good amount of money instead of the absurd amount of money actually raised, they would have simply made a great space flight simulator and called it a day. It probably would have been a great game. The problem was they got so much money they scope exploded, and then kept exploding and continues to explode to this day. There's no chance of this ever releasing in a state close to what has been promised, if it ever even releases at all.
I don't really agree. The whole reason I didn't back this in the first place is the insane level of ambition demonstrated even in the project as explained by the Kickstarter campaign. I know I've said this before somewhere, but if Chris Roberts had shown up and said "I'm gonna make a new Wing Commander game. It can't CALL it Wing Commander, but that's what it's gonna be. We'll add some online multiplayer dogfights and the ability to have another player as wingman via the internet, but it's basically gonna be Wing Commander." I would have said "TAKE MY MONEY!" but he didn't. He showed up with this insane sprawling mess of promises that in the considered opinion of me from four years ago, was completely beyond what he had shown was in his ability to create. The fact that it has grown even more insane with feature bloat since then is just the disease following its natural course. I don't think this game would have done better with more "reasonable" donations, because it was already insane when he started soliciting.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:39 AM
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Thing is, Star Citizen does have a release build, that backers can play, and it is regularly updated. It's not currently brilliant, but everytime I check it out more has been added, so it's definitely advancing.
I tried the free fly, and it was disappointing and also made me feel kind of bad for Chris Roberts. It was visually impressive (minus the terrible frame rates in the persistent world), but none of it was fun. The dogfighting felt insubstantial, because there wasn't enough feedback about whether or not I was hitting my opponent or being hit.

Five years in, I expected more. There was nothing in the game right now that hasn't been done, better, in other games from 10 years ago. Reading dev blog notes that say they are going to have to rewrite even more of CryEngine in order to not kill everyone's frame rate whenever a big ship loads does not fill me with hope.

Chris Roberts (or his management team) seems to be missing some important project management skills around defining objectives and minimizing risk.

I found this thread on Neogaf to be a useful background on Derek Smart.
  #196  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:03 PM
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It seems to me that what the crowdfunding is being used for is open-ended research and development, not a particular project.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:25 PM
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Chris Roberts (or his management team) seems to be missing some important project management skills around defining objectives and minimizing risk.
The thing is...we should have already known this. Freelancer, at the very least, is exactly what happens if you do pretty much the Star Citizen thing, except you do it 15 years ago, and Microsoft steps in to save you from utterly failing. And my dim understanding is that Starlancer had some issues along these lines as well.

Chris Roberts has not demonstrated he can make a game more complicated than Wing Commander: Privateer. :P
  #198  
Old 12-13-2016, 05:15 PM
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Star Citizen is now the third most expensive game ever developed with no end in sight.
  #199  
Old 12-27-2016, 12:01 PM
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How fucked is Star Citizen? Contrary to what was originally reported by Engadget, Econotimes says the word from Cloud Imperium is that transitioning from CryEngine to Lumberyard has not been smooth.
Quote:
The nature of Amazonís engine had substantial differences compared to the CryEngine, which made adaptation a challenge.

:snip:

The team was left with no choice but to painstakingly create and release modules that would make the title functional in the way that the studio envisioned. This proved challenging since, as fans of Star Citizen know, the game is meant to be a full-fledged MMO space simulator.
  #200  
Old 12-27-2016, 12:37 PM
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How fucked is Star Citizen? Contrary to what was originally reported by Engadget, Econotimes says the word from Cloud Imperium is that transitioning from CryEngine to Lumberyard has not been smooth.
As I understand it Lumberyard is a fork of CryEngine. But The CryEngine the devs have been working with now included a ton of custom technology (like 64 bit indexes) And that was the main bit of work.

It's done though, the transition is complete according to what they are saying.
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