Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:29 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 38,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I believe "all the various studies that have occurred on comparing public and private sector pay", when looked at in the aggregate, show a substantial difference in compensation for the average federal employee vs the average American. Do you agree?
That is a meaningless comparison.
  #52  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:35 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 80,734
[Moderating]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
Is this another bit of dumbassery, comparing "large percentage of grunt minimum-wagers" oranges to "mostly specialized-skill white-collar" apples?

Oh, it's HD. Of course it's another bit of dumbassery.
Personal insults are not permitted in GQ. This is an official Warning. If you have an issue with an individual poster, take it to the Pit.
  #53  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:39 PM
Falchion Falchion is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
Is health insurance also suspended while the government is shut down?
No. But the premiums will accumulate and be deducted when you get paid again. Cite. If you get back pay, this presumably would not be a big deal.
  #54  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:40 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
That is a meaningless comparison.
Earlier in this thread, I was told this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
... Unless you can show that federal workers are substantially different from non-federal workers in some respect that bears on this.
Do you understand that having different incomes makes them "substantially different from non-federal workers in some respect that bears on this"?
  #55  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:57 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,992
Maybe you should start a debate thread about this.
  #56  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:59 PM
scr4 scr4 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 15,200
As already pointed out, government workers have better job security than private sector workers. Which means they have less incentive to build up a cash saving for emergencies - because it's highly unlikely for them to suddenly lose their jobs. A government shutdown resulting in more than one missed paycheck is unprecedented in US history.
  #57  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:00 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Maybe you should start a debate thread about this.
I'm reasonably confident that you, at least, have understood the point. I'll drop it.
  #58  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:07 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I'm reasonably confident that you, at least, have understood the point. I'll drop it.
Apology gratefully accepted!
  #59  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:08 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Apology gratefully accepted!
perhaps my optimism was misplaced

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 01-15-2019 at 04:09 PM.
  #60  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:17 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
perhaps my optimism was misplaced
Stop it, now you're embarrassing me with all this fulsome praise.

Ok, just one more comment would be fine.
  #61  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:47 PM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole Whack-a-Mole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 20,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Do you understand that having different incomes makes them "substantially different from non-federal workers in some respect that bears on this"?
Yes but I do not think your HuffPo cite was sufficient.

So I did some work for you. It seems 28% of workers making $50,000-$99,999 usually or always live paycheck to paycheck, and 70% are in debt (and one in ten over $100,000 do). Federal workers are more likely to fall into that salary category but not all will. Clearly moving up the ladder makes living paycheck-to-paycheck less likely.

So far we cannot know how many federal workers are in this group but it is still safe to say "a lot". Is it a majority? Maybe...
__________________
"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." ~John Stuart Mill

Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 01-15-2019 at 04:50 PM.
  #62  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:52 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
... So far we cannot know how many federal workers are in this group but it is still safe to say "a lot". Is it a majority? Maybe...
I agree with this.
  #63  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:41 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,476
a lot of things like building maintenance, custodians, landscaping , etc. are done by contractors , not federal employees. Those people would not be included in average pay surveys.
  #64  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:58 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
a lot of things like building maintenance, custodians, landscaping , etc. are done by contractors , not federal employees. Those people would not be included in average pay surveys.
And they should not expect to see back pay. Any law requiring back pay for Federal employees obviously does not include contractors.
  #65  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:55 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 27,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
So the market is stepping in to help.
That's of limited help at best.

MAYBE a large bank or loan company can float Federal workers with a mortgage, but for renters (and plenty of Federal workers are renters) the landlords can not do their because they, in turn, have bills to pay and their creditors aren't going to extend mercy to them.

Truly, it is appalling that our government workers are now depending on charity to survive.

Trump's administration is now officially a disaster. When is this man going to be impeached and removed from office?
  #66  
Old 01-16-2019, 08:18 AM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,419
I just heard that there’s a law that says that federal employees who are furloughed for 30 days are supposed to get riffed.
  #67  
Old 01-16-2019, 08:33 AM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 37,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
What I mean is: are government workers (that are not furloughed) still earning income and just not receiving their paycheck currently and, when they do, they will get all of their back pay?
Don't know if this has been covered yet, but: government workers who are not furloughed because they are in agencies that have been funded through September (or who, like me, work for an unfunded agency, but are working on projects paid for by one of the funded agencies) - we are still getting paid.
  #68  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:55 AM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 80,734
Quote:
Quoth Broomstick:

Trump's administration is now officially a disaster. When is this man going to be impeached and removed from office?
This is not a factual question. As a reminder, we're in GQ, here.
  #69  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:02 AM
Alley Dweller's Avatar
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
I just heard that there’s a law that says that federal employees who are furloughed for 30 days are supposed to get riffed.
They are supposed to "perform a monologue or spoken improvisation on a particular subject"???
  #70  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:07 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Again, Titletown
Posts: 21,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alley Dweller View Post
Not sure if I'm being wooshed but:

Reduction in Force or RIF
  #71  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:26 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 29,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
This is not a factual question. As a reminder, we're in GQ, here.
It is, however, a factual statement.
  #72  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:34 AM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Challenger Deep
Posts: 11,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
I just heard that there’s a law that says that federal employees who are furloughed for 30 days are supposed to get riffed.
Not gonna happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federal News Network
Agencies won’t need to consider targeted layoffs, otherwise known as reductions-in-force (RIFs), if the current partial government shutdown continues for another few days.

While federal statute typically instructs agencies to RIF targeted groups of employees who have been placed on furlough status for 30 days or more, the regulations don’t apply to emergency furlough situations, the Office of Management and Budget confirmed Tuesday.

Last edited by Machine Elf; 01-16-2019 at 10:34 AM.
  #73  
Old 01-16-2019, 12:35 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 80,734
Quote:
Quoth Ludovic:

It is, however, a factual statement.
Has FEMA declared the Trump administration to be a disaster? That's the only way that I know of that something can factually be "officially a disaster".
  #74  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:04 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: N of Denver & S of Sanity
Posts: 12,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
That said, there is a law specifically for government workers forbidding them from working without pay. So all of the "essential" personnel who are still working are required to be paid eventually. Just, not now.
That answers my question but there is another issue. Can an employer, whether governmental (Federal or State) or private company consider a person "essential" and require them to work for no pay.

You answered the question for Federal employees and I assume the other scenarios would be addressed by state or Federal law.
__________________
If all else fails, try S.C.E. to Aux.
  #75  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:13 PM
Mama Zappa Mama Zappa is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,045
One thought that occurred to me: if I were a government "essential employee" and compelled into slavery right now, I admit I'd be pissed that I had to go through the hassle / expense of commuting, while my nonessential neighbor did not.... and yet we wound up with the same amount of money at the end.

I think there ought to be some kind of special bonus / hazard pay / other compensation for people currently enslaved.
  #76  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:25 PM
Alley Dweller's Avatar
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Not sure if I'm being wooshed but:

Reduction in Force or RIF
Thank-you, it was a serious question.

So, in plain English, they are supposed to be fired?
  #77  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:25 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,967
They're not "enslaved". They are free to quit their current position (in which they are experiencing a delay in payment) and find other employment. That has not been true of the vast majority of people "compelled into slavery" throughout history.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 01-16-2019 at 06:26 PM.
  #78  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:43 PM
Duckster's Avatar
Duckster Duckster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,619
. It guarantees furloughed federal employeess will receive backpay once the shutdown ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alley Dweller View Post
Thank-you, it was a serious question.

So, in plain English, they are supposed to be fired?
No. This is an emergency furlough. RIF rules do not apply (PDF warning).


Addendum: Trump just signed Senate Bill 24 (S.24 - Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019) guaranteeing furloughed federal employees will receive back-pay, once the shutdown is over.
  #79  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:22 PM
PoppaSan's Avatar
PoppaSan PoppaSan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West shore Lake Michigan
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
It is, however, a factual statement.
When did a political opinion = fact become the standard for this site?
  #80  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:35 PM
Some Call Me... Tim Some Call Me... Tim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 1,786
nm

Last edited by Some Call Me... Tim; 01-16-2019 at 09:35 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017