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  #151  
Old 11-19-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
When we last visited our friend Julian Assange, he was in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, with bobbies out front, waiting to arrest him on a Swedish extradition warrant if he stepped out the door and back into British jurisdiction.

It sounds as if a UN panel is going to rule in a few hours that the four years he's been in the Ecuador embassy is arbitrary detention: Julian Assange is in arbitrary detention, UN panel finds.

I"m trying to get my head around this: there's been nothing stopping him for four years from leaving the Embassy, except his own fear of being arrested and sent to Sweden. But the Swedish and British courts have upheld the original rape investigation in Sweden, and the extradition warrant in Britain, so where's the arbitrariness? He's just avoiding answering legal process that anyone else would have to respond to.

I will be interested in reading the piece from the UN body. It sounds as if it is purely advisory, and the UK and Swedish governments plan to reject the findings.
I hope they do; it sounds like utter nonsense. He ought to be drawn and quartered, metaphorically of course.
  #152  
Old 11-19-2016, 10:56 AM
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What for ? Alleged rape, or embarrassing the American Government --- an institution to which he owes no allegiance whatsoever ?

For non-Americans we have no interest in protecting American policies or needs unless they coincide with our own. Any more than America is obliged to support foreign wishes.



All these anti-Assange and anti-Snowden hymns of hate seem straight out of the Soviet playbook.
  #153  
Old 11-19-2016, 11:05 AM
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At this point, he's no different than anyone else who has fled to another country to avoid facing seemingly legitimate charges. It would be a fight if the U.S. requested that Assange be extradited from Sweden, but it's all a complete hypothetical. Assange just doesn't want to face the rape charges and his paranoia gives him and his supporters the convenient pretext of the U.S. boogeyman to avoid that.
  #154  
Old 11-19-2016, 11:40 AM
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At this point, he's no different than anyone else who has fled to another country to avoid facing seemingly legitimate charges. It would be a fight if the U.S. requested that Assange be extradited from Sweden, but it's all a complete hypothetical. Assange just doesn't want to face the rape charges and his paranoia gives him and his supporters the convenient pretext of the U.S. boogeyman to avoid that.
Quite. I've never heard his defenders deal with the question as to why the Swedish courts would be any more likely than the UK courts to accept a US request for extradition on a charge totally unrelated to the reasons for the Swedish arrest warrant - especially given that no-one in the US appears to have made any moves towards making such an application in all the time Assange was freely residing in the UK. Only when the Swedes issue an arrest warrant does the question of extradition to the US raise its head.
  #155  
Old 11-19-2016, 01:10 PM
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Nor does anyone respond to the point that if the UK extradites Assange to Sweden, and then the US applies to Sweden to extradite him, both Sweden and the UK have to consent to the extradition to the US. So it becomes more complicated to extradite him from Sweden to the US than it would have been to extradite him from the UK to the US.
  #156  
Old 11-19-2016, 01:11 PM
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For non-Americans we have no interest in protecting American policies or needs unless they coincide with our own. Any more than America is obliged to support foreign wishes.
Quite. Which includes the orderly and predictable application of international extradition treaties, which is in the interest of all countries which have signed extradition treaties.
  #157  
Old 11-19-2016, 01:24 PM
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So the American Government has a material interest in the extradition of Assange from England to Sweden, when none of these parties are connected to the USA ?


American Extradition Treaties generally work one way. To, but not from, the imperial power. This has pissed off India frequently.





And both Sweden and Britain are abject lackeys to the USA, far more than say France or Russia.
  #158  
Old 11-19-2016, 01:43 PM
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And both Sweden and Britain are abject lackeys to the USA, far more than say France or Russia.
How exactly is Sweden an abject lackey of the U.S.? Because they dare seek to question Assange in the first place?

If the U.S. and the UK were really such police states back in 2010, Assange would simply have disappeared and been kidnapped or just executed by CIA/MI-6 goons. Or, more recently, the UK could have simply revoked the diplomatic credentials for everyone in the Ecuadorian embassy and ordered them to leave the country, leaving Assange nowhere else to go and then apprehended him once he tried to leave the embassy.
  #159  
Old 11-20-2016, 01:10 AM
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So the American Government has a material interest in the extradition of Assange from England to Sweden, when none of these parties are connected to the USA ?
Not a direct interest, but indirect, I would say. The US has extradition treaties with the UK and Sweden. Extradition from the UK is governed by the Extradition Act 2003, which applies to the Swedish request for extradition and for any requests for extradition which the US may make to the UK for anyone wanted for a criminal matter in the US.

I think it is in the interests of the US that the British extradition process work in an orderly and transparent way, governed by law, so the that the US knows what the rules will be for any extradition request it makes, the standards of proof, and the willingness of the British government to stand by its treaty obligations.

That US interest is a general one, that applies to any request for extradition it may make to the UK, not simply what is happening in the Assange matter.
  #160  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:37 AM
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Sweden has decided to drop the rape investigation into Wikileaks founder Julian Assange. Top prosecutor Marianne Ny said his arrest warrant was being revoked as it was impossible to serve him notice. Mr Assange, 45, has lived in the Ecuadorean embassy in London since 2012. He fears extradition to Sweden would lead to extradition to the US where he is wanted over leaks. Ecuador has called on the UK to allow him safe passage out of the country. However, police in London said they would still be obliged to arrest him if he left.

The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) said Mr Assange still faced the lesser charge of failing to surrender to a court, an offence punishable by up to a year in prison or a fine.

But the UK has not commented on whether it has received an extradition request from the US, where Mr Assange could face trial over the leaking of hundreds of thousands of secret US military and diplomatic documents.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39973864

I think he would have been off surrendering to Sweden years ago.
  #161  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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How so, since an essential component of his entrapment has fallen ?

Plus he's avoided spending that time in a Supermax in America.


If Trump has any sense --- not that he does --- he, despite his previous threats to Assange, or any other president imaginable would best draw a line under the whole affair, and not prosecute Assange, Snowden or anyone else; and just let them retire into safe semi-obscurity. It's all yesterday's news; Americans have indicated they are comfortable with continual surveillance of themselves for the good of the state; and they sure as hell like droning. No state interests, even those of secret police are ever furthered by motivations of revenge.
  #162  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:43 AM
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The Swedish decision changes nothing. If Assange leaves the embassy, he can definitely be arrested on the British bail skipping charge (maximum penalty a year in jail). While that charge is being prosecuted (and he's presumably in British custody, because who will ever give him bail again), Sweden can reactivate the rape charge

He may also be subject to arrest on foot of a sealed US extradition request :- none of the state actors involved in that have confirmed or denied that such a request has been made, nor will they ever do so. This arrest risk is indefinite, and extends beyond the 2020 expiry of the Swedish rape charges.

Effectively, on Thursday, Assange's only certain way to avoid arrest was to remain in the Ecuadorian embassy indefinitely. That is also the case today.
  #163  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:00 AM
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Just a reminder of what complete bullshit the Swedish charges were from the start.

The Swedish case against Assange

Two women laid complaints of technical rape.

One said she asked Assange to use a condom and he didn't. He says he did. Nevertheless she continued sleeping with him and hosting him in her flat for a further 6 days. She refused offers to host him elsewhere, acted as his press secretary, and threw a party for him - all AFTER the alleged incident.

The other woman said she asked Assange to use a condom, and he did, but then he deliberately broke the condom. Assange says the condom broke by accident. They went out together for breakfast the next morning, and appeared to be on good terms.

The two women later went to the police, not to lay charges of rape, but to see if Assange could be compelled to take an HIV test. One woman said the police were keen to get them to lay rape charges, and "she felt railroaded by the police and others around her."

Both women have said that sex was consensual, the only issue was condom use. Neither woman contracted HIV, or anything else, or got pregnant after sleeping with Assange.

Stockholm’s Chief Prosecutor Eva Finne, stated she "made the assessment that the evidence did not disclose any offence of rape", and that "The conduct alleged ... disclosed no crime at all and that file (K246314-10) should be closed."

However, after political intervention, the case was reopened with a different prosecutor.

Assange then stayed in Sweden for five weeks in order to give his statement - during which time the prosecutor declined to question him on a number of occasions. Assange left Sweden with the consent of the prosecutor.

No charges have ever been laid against him. He was only wanted for 'questioning'

______________

This case was never anything other than an excuse to hand him over to the USA while avoiding any kind of legal process dealing with freedom of speech, the rights of journalists, and Wikileaks. Note that Sweden has previously cooperated with the US in acts of 'extraordinary rendition' (kidnapping and torture).

Sweden had been waiting in the hope that the President of Ecuador, Lenin Moreno, would lose the election there, but he won last month. This appears to be the main reason why they gave up now.
  #164  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:20 AM
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This case was never anything other than an excuse to hand him over to the USA while avoiding any kind of legal process dealing with freedom of speech, the rights of journalists, and Wikileaks.
...would you care to offer some cites for your extraordinary assertions?

A casual read of the wiki on this case doesn't read like your summary at all.
  #165  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:28 AM
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...would you care to offer some cites for your extraordinary assertions?
Cites:

From the Observer, a detailed analysis of the 98-page official Swedish report:
http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusiv...-in-stockholm/

Why I am Convinced that Anna Ardin is a Liar
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...din-is-a-liar/

Assange Case Fact-Checker
https://justice4assange.com/Assange-...t-Checker.html
  #166  
Old 05-20-2017, 07:40 AM
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...well thanks for the data dump. Rather than try and pick my way through your obviously very biased citations, perhaps I should have been more specific. Lets start with one example. You claimed "However, after political intervention, the case was reopened with a different prosecutor."

Can you provide evidence of this political intervention?
  #167  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:02 AM
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...well thanks for the data dump. Rather than try and pick my way through your obviously very biased citations
I've given the cites you asked for. If you're not even prepared to read them, there's nothing more I can do for you.

You will obviously believe what you choose to believe, regardless of anything. In other words, normal right-wing nut-job behaviour.
  #168  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:13 AM
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I've given the cites you asked for. If you're not even prepared to read them, there's nothing more I can do for you.

You will obviously believe what you choose to believe, regardless of anything. In other words, normal right-wing nut-job behaviour.
...I actually looked through your cites: I didn't see any evidence of political interference. But perhaps I missed it. Would you care to enlighten us?

And implying that I, the Straight Dope Resident Social Justice Warrior, is exhibiting "normal right-wing nut-job behaviour" is absolutely hilarious.
  #169  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:36 AM
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And implying that I, the Straight Dope Resident Social Justice Warrior
<Monty Python Peasant Voice>
Well, I didn't vote for you.
</Monty Python Peasant Voice>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY

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  #170  
Old 05-20-2017, 01:44 PM
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Cites:

From the Observer, a detailed analysis of the 98-page official Swedish report:
http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusiv...-in-stockholm/

Why I am Convinced that Anna Ardin is a Liar
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...din-is-a-liar/

Assange Case Fact-Checker
https://justice4assange.com/Assange-...t-Checker.html
Great. He should have no problem being acquitted.
  #171  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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Great. He should have no problem being acquitted.
Acquitted???

He was never even charged with anything, and now the whole case has been dropped!
  #172  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:19 PM
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Acquitted???

He was never even charged with anything, and now the whole case has been dropped!
Yeah, so it makes the whole hiding from justice for what - five years - seem like a pretty stupid move if he never committed any crimes.

ETA: by the way, the Outrage Style Manual suggests you use seven question marks in these contexts.

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  #173  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:46 PM
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Yeah, so it makes the whole hiding from justice for what - five years - seem like a pretty stupid move if he never committed any crimes.
Frankly, after doing what he did to the American intelligence community, I would say a high level of paranoia is pretty rational rather than stupid.
  #174  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:53 PM
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Seeing as how he surrounds himself with sycophants that make Trump envious, I'm not sure Assange has any rational basis to understand the world outside his own ego.
  #175  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:55 PM
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Acquitted???

He was never even charged with anything, and now the whole case has been dropped!
Under the Swedish system, he couldn't be charged until he was interviewed.
  #176  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:23 AM
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Assange then stayed in Sweden for five weeks in order to give his statement - during which time the prosecutor declined to question him on a number of occasions. Assange left Sweden with the consent of the prosecutor.

No charges have ever been laid against him. He was only wanted for 'questioning'

This case was never anything other than an excuse to hand him over to the USA while avoiding any kind of legal process dealing with freedom of speech, the rights of journalists, and Wikileaks. Note that Sweden has previously cooperated with the US in acts of 'extraordinary rendition' (kidnapping and torture).

Sweden had been waiting in the hope that the President of Ecuador, Lenin Moreno, would lose the election there, but he won last month. This appears to be the main reason why they gave up now.[/QUOTE]

______________

I regularly visit Sweden, and know the country well. It's an EU democracy, with a strongly established rule of law, and all the above strikes me as conspiratorial, paranoid nonsense.

Can I ask, what do people, especially Assange devotees, see as Assange's exit plan here ? As I outlined above, he's potentially subject to arrest when he steps outside the diplomatic bubble no matter what.

Is his life plan to live and die in a room in the Ecuadorian embassy ?

Last edited by williambaskerville; 05-21-2017 at 04:23 AM.
  #177  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:42 AM
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In North America there is also a liberal democracy with a long standing rule of law called.......Unified Gates,??? errrr Union Rates....???? United States....which has taken to locking people up for decades without charge or trial, sending them to government-sponsored torture centers on three continents.

Assange is not an ordinary dude accused of rape by a couple of women. He is a man who is has managed to piss off some very powerful people, liberal democracy or no liberal democracy he is right to be worried.
  #178  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GreenWyvern
This case was never anything other than an excuse to hand him over to the USA while avoiding any kind of legal process dealing with freedom of speech, the rights of journalists, and Wikileaks. Note that Sweden has previously cooperated with the US in acts of 'extraordinary rendition' (kidnapping and torture).
Since Assange was in the UK before he fled to the Ecuadorian embassy, why was Assange somehow more afraid that Sweden would extradite him to the U.S. rather than the UK, given that the UK has a much closer relationship to the U.S.? The U.S. has extradition treaties with both Sweden and the UK. It doesn't really make much sense. Particularly since he is not a British citizen and any charges he could face would not be death penalty eligible offenses, which can one of the main reasons that European countries do not extradite people to the U.S.
  #179  
Old 05-21-2017, 05:03 AM
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Under the Swedish system, he couldn't be charged until he was interviewed.
He faced some initial questions back in 2010 before prosecutors seemed to form an idea of what the charges might be. The Swedish prosecutors finally were able to arrange a second interview with him by traveling to the UK in November 2016.

Missed the edit window for the post above - it looks like Assange could possibly be charged with a death penalty eligible offense, but the U.S. would not realistically seek it in this case.

Last edited by ganthet; 05-21-2017 at 05:05 AM.
  #180  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:17 AM
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You will obviously believe what you choose to believe, regardless of anything. In other words, normal right-wing nut-job behaviour.
This is a warning for personal insults. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner.

[/moderating]
  #181  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:52 AM
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How so, since an essential component of his entrapment has fallen ?

Plus he's avoided spending that time in a Supermax in America.


If Trump has any sense --- not that he does --- he, despite his previous threats to Assange, or any other president imaginable would best draw a line under the whole affair, and not prosecute Assange, Snowden or anyone else; and just let them retire into safe semi-obscurity. It's all yesterday's news; Americans have indicated they are comfortable with continual surveillance of themselves for the good of the state; and they sure as hell like droning. No state interests, even those of secret police are ever furthered by motivations of revenge.
Of course Trump will let him go. Say what you want about the President, but he's always been very loyal to his supporters.

Hell, he's probably nominate Assange as the new head of the FBI.
  #182  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:58 AM
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He faced some initial questions back in 2010 before prosecutors seemed to form an idea of what the charges might be

Ah, the old One Weird Lawyer's Trick of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing if anything will stick *.


Quote:
it looks like Assange could possibly be charged with a death penalty eligible offense, but the U.S. would not realistically seek it in this case.

Can't imagine why he wanted to evade them for so long.



* Also known as, for Britons amongst ye, as The Bobby Sands Special.
  #183  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:37 PM
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Great. He should have no problem being acquitted.
Sure, if we thought it was really what they were after. But a lot of us (myself included) think it was something to get him in custody, making it easy for the US to ask for extradition for other stuff.

Hence why I'm not even sure that dropping the charges is enough for him. They could also drop the charges in an attempt to get him to go somewhere more amenable to getting him.

He leaked US secrets. The US likes to punish people for that. Coming up with a bogus rape charge kinda tipped their hand.
  #184  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:38 PM
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Since Assange was in the UK before he fled to the Ecuadorian embassy, why was Assange somehow more afraid that Sweden would extradite him to the U.S. rather than the UK, given that the UK has a much closer relationship to the U.S.? The U.S. has extradition treaties with both Sweden and the UK. It doesn't really make much sense. Particularly since he is not a British citizen and any charges he could face would not be death penalty eligible offenses, which can one of the main reasons that European countries do not extradite people to the U.S.
Because Sweden would have him in custody, while the UK didn't. Once they have you in custody, it's kinda hard to flee.

Seriously, the amount of loops people will go through to deny the obvious. If this was really the issue, then it would have been reported when it happened and dealt with then, not after the U.S. wanted him.

They went on a fishing expedition for something they could charge him for. It's as obvious as when Trump fired Comey.

Last edited by BigT; 05-22-2017 at 11:41 PM.
  #185  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:44 PM
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Of course Trump will let him go. Say what you want about the President, but he's always been very loyal to his supporters.

Hell, he's probably nominate Assange as the new head of the FBI.
Sarcasm? There are plenty of people who helped him who he didn't reward. He'll turn on a dime on whether he likes you.

Related to this: his Trump support is why I actually don't care if the US gets him now (unless it turns out Russians took over or were forcing him). But I still 100% believe that the rape charges were just drummed up strategically.

The U.S. just isn't ethical about these sorts of things.

Last edited by BigT; 05-22-2017 at 11:45 PM.
  #186  
Old 07-28-2018, 06:05 PM
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Our friend Julian and his unorthodox couch-surfing are in the news again.

It sounds as if the new President of Ecuador views Assange as a headache and an unwelcome houseguest, and is prepared to kick him out, provided Britain gives its undertaking that in the event the US asks for extradition, Britain would impose a "no death penalty" condition on the extradition to the US.

Julian Assange's fate rests on death penalty assurances, Ecuador's President says

Julian Assange cannot stay in embassy forever, Ecuador's President says
  #187  
Old 07-28-2018, 06:56 PM
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I don't know what law the US would be able to convict Assange under that would allow for the death penalty? Treason would only be applicable if Assange was an American and, in case anyone isn't aware, he's not.

That said, as I have noted in other threads, the UK better keep Assange until Trump is out of office. The instant he's in the US, Assange has a strong motive to provide Trump with information about malfeasance on the part of Democrats (e.g. Clinton) and Trump has a strong motive to pardon Assange.

If he comes here, it won't turn out for the better. There is no Congressional nor Judicial review of the pardon power. No one can stop it nor question it.
  #188  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:15 PM
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I know everyone is speculating about the British handing him over to the US, but surely they'd like some quality time with him as well, not to mention the rest of the EU? Russia hasn't been subtle about its activities in the UK or the EU in the last few years. I'd like to talk to him about Russian hacking before I handed him over to anyone, were I in British shoes.
  #189  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:58 PM
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I know everyone is speculating about the British handing him over to the US, but surely they'd like some quality time with him as well, not to mention the rest of the EU? Russia hasn't been subtle about its activities in the UK or the EU in the last few years. I'd like to talk to him about Russian hacking before I handed him over to anyone, were I in British shoes.
Did WikiLeaks do anything for/against Brexit?
  #190  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:05 PM
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I don't know what law the US would be able to convict Assange under that would allow for the death penalty? Treason would only be applicable if Assange was an American and, in case anyone isn't aware, he's not.
I'm sure Ecuador knows that Assange would not face the death penalty either, but they are trying to be tough after keeping him from us for six years.

Ecuador: We will not have this poor man face the death penalty!!!
U.S.: We promise he will not face the death penalty.
Ecuador: Cool. See ya, Julian.
  #191  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Did WikiLeaks do anything for/against Brexit?
I am not deeply versed on this at all, but Assange is connected to Nigel Farage (face of the Brexit movement). A quick search indicates that Assange was also publicly in favor of Brexit. The UK and the US both have evidence that Russia funded Ukip/pro-Brexit group. Nigel Farage is also tied to Guccifer 2.0, Russian hackers.

I can't find (again, on very cursory review) anything that says Wikileaks was dumping data. I do find links between Assange, Russia, and Brexit. I would want to talk to him.
  #192  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:40 PM
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I would imagine that Britain would automatically impose the no-death-penalty condition on any extradition, so Ecuador's position is just posturing anyway.

Assange's best hope is that May is gone before this deal goes through. With a different government, extradition might be a negotiated matter or off the table altogether. With May, she'll send Assange over to Trump wrapped in a bow, with a love note and some flowers.
  #193  
Old 07-29-2018, 02:09 AM
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I would imagine that Britain would automatically impose the no-death-penalty condition on any extradition, so Ecuador's position is just posturing anyway.
No it wouldn't, and no they aren't. May's government made the headlines last week precisely because it stopped asking for no-death-penalty assurances for some extraditions. See this article from The Guardian, for example, though the story has been covered by all the major UK newspapers.

Last edited by psychonaut; 07-29-2018 at 02:10 AM.
  #194  
Old 07-29-2018, 05:14 AM
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No it wouldn't, and no they aren't. May's government made the headlines last week precisely because it stopped asking for no-death-penalty assurances for some extraditions. See this article from The Guardian, for example, though the story has been covered by all the major UK newspapers.

But the reaction over that makes it all the more unlikely that they'd drop the condition in such a case. Whatever he did hardly compares with someone who decapitates hostages.

In any case has the US made any moves towards asking for extradition at any time in the last six years?
  #195  
Old 07-29-2018, 06:18 AM
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In any case has the US made any moves towards asking for extradition at any time in the last six years?
No; that would be a very public validation of Assange's grounds for asylum, and would only entrench Ecuador's protection of him. If the US really does want to extradite him, it's best for them to keep quiet for now and let Ecuador act on the (professed) belief that he's out of danger.

Last edited by psychonaut; 07-29-2018 at 06:19 AM.
  #196  
Old 07-29-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
See this article from The Guardian, for example, though the story has been covered by all the major UK newspapers.
As an aside, I found several of the paragraphs of that article troubling, in relation to the two individuals alleged to be involved with ISIS:

Quote:
May’s spokeswoman said the prime minister was “aware of these plans and supports the way that this has been handled. The ultimate aim for all of us in our discussions with the US is to make sure that these men face the rest of their lives in prison. That is also what the victims’ families want.”
The ultimate aim should be a fair trial, with no pre-determination in advance that the two are guilty and should be in jail for the rest of their lives.

Quote:
The justice secretary, David Gauke, defended the decision on Tuesday. “We have to bear in mind the government is determined to ensure the two individuals are properly brought to justice and the decision was made on the details of their particular cases,” he said.

“I don’t think anybody wants to see those two individuals walk free because there’s insufficient evidence to bring a case against them.”
If they're properly brought to justice and there is insufficient evidence, yes, they should walk free.
  #197  
Old 07-29-2018, 08:14 PM
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Northern Piper I agree with you, for what it's worth. The way we have handled suspected terrorists in the justice system is improper at best.
  #198  
Old 07-29-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
As an aside, I found several of the paragraphs of that article troubling, in relation to the two individuals alleged to be involved with ISIS:



The ultimate aim should be a fair trial, with no pre-determination in advance that the two are guilty and should be in jail for the rest of their lives.



If they're properly brought to justice and there is insufficient evidence, yes, they should walk free.
That's true, but the government is playing the part of the Prosecutor, so I would hold it as fairly reasonable to say what outcome they are seeking as the Prosecution (or whatever the British term is, if different).
  #199  
Old 07-29-2018, 08:51 PM
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As an aside, I found several of the paragraphs of that article troubling, in relation to the two individuals alleged to be involved with ISIS:



The ultimate aim should be a fair trial, with no pre-determination in advance that the two are guilty and should be in jail for the rest of their lives.



If they're properly brought to justice and there is insufficient evidence, yes, they should walk free.

That is so adorably cute and old-fashioned. Not the case in England after 10 years of Blair's "rebalancing" and "aim to convict the guilty".
  #200  
Old 07-29-2018, 11:06 PM
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The Deputy Attorney General in one Canadian province a few years ago sent a memo to all Crown prosecutors which said that their overall goal was to get convictions.

The memo somehow ended up with the press. The assumption was that a Crown prosecutor did not think it accurately set out their legal and constitutional duties.

The Deputy AG was gone within a week or two.
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