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  #201  
Old 07-30-2018, 02:28 AM
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The Deputy Attorney General in one Canadian province a few years ago sent a memo to all Crown prosecutors which said that their overall goal was to get convictions.

The memo somehow ended up with the press. The assumption was that a Crown prosecutor did not think it accurately set out their legal and constitutional duties.

The Deputy AG was gone within a week or two.
In England its literally Rule 1.1 of the Criminal Procedure Rules.
  #202  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:16 AM
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Eh? That's not what it says at all. To quote directly:

Quote:
—(1) The overriding objective of this procedural code is that criminal cases be dealt with
justly.
(2) Dealing with a criminal case justly includes―
(a) acquitting the innocent and convicting the guilty;
(b) dealing with the prosecution and the defence fairly;
(c) recognising the rights of a defendant, particularly those under Article 6 of the European
Convention on Human Rights;
(d) respecting the interests of witnesses, victims and jurors and keeping them informed of the
progress of the case;
(e) dealing with the case efficiently and expeditiously;
(f) ensuring that appropriate information is available to the court when bail and sentence are
considered; and
(g) dealing with the case in ways that take into account―
(i) the gravity of the offence alleged,
(ii) the complexity of what is in issue,
(iii) the severity of the consequences for the defendant and others affected, and
(iv) the needs of other cases.
  #203  
Old 07-30-2018, 06:48 AM
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The Deputy Attorney General in one Canadian province a few years ago sent a memo to all Crown prosecutors which said that their overall goal was to get convictions.

The memo somehow ended up with the press. The assumption was that a Crown prosecutor did not think it accurately set out their legal and constitutional duties.

The Deputy AG was gone within a week or two.
Sure, it's not just a semantic difference between "do whatever is necessary to convict!" and "give a detailed and reasonable analysis of the reasons to prosecute, based on the merit of the evidence in the case at hand."

But once a Prosecutor has looked at the evidence, determined which crimes seem reasonable to prosecute, and what the sentencing guidelines are for that, it's not unreasonable to say, "Here's what we're planning to prosecute, and here's what we're trying to convince the court is the correct sentence for those crimes."
  #204  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:59 AM
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Sure, but that's a case-by-case approach, based on the prosecutor's overall assessment of the facts and the law.

That's quite different from representatives of the Prime Minister saying that the goal is to convict two people, and that little things like a lack of evidence shouldn't allow someone to walk free.
  #205  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:39 PM
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That said, as I have noted in other threads, the UK better keep Assange until Trump is out of office. The instant he's in the US, Assange has a strong motive to provide Trump with information about malfeasance on the part of Democrats (e.g. Clinton) and Trump has a strong motive to pardon Assange.
Why wouldn't they extradite him to Sweden instead? It's that extradition request that led Assange to flee to the Ecuadorian embassy. If Trump gets him and pardons him, I'm sure that Sweden would request his extradition from the US, and it would look pretty bad for Trump, who breaks up families of asylum seekers because he says their rapists, to grant asylum to an actual person fleeing rape charges. (not that these sorts of contradictions stopped him before.)
  #206  
Old 08-07-2018, 03:51 PM
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Sweden dropped the investigation last year is why.
  #207  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:24 PM
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Based on a more recent Lawfare post, it seems that the US doesn't actually have any criminal charge assigned to Assange, and potentially he's saved from anything by First Amendment laws, so the whole question may be irrelevant. There are some options to try and get him, but none is a slam dunk and there's no knowing whether we'll actually try to charge him at the moment.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/if-assan...assy-what-next
  #208  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:54 PM
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Sweden dropped the investigation last year is why.
Only because the suspect was no longer available for questioning. Swedish law permits the investigation to be reopened once Assange becomes available (i.e., extraditable).
  #209  
Old 08-09-2018, 07:57 AM
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Based on a more recent Lawfare post, it seems that the US doesn't actually have any criminal charge assigned to Assange, and potentially he's saved from anything by First Amendment laws, so the whole question may be irrelevant]

Quite. The whole palaver over the possibility of his being extradited to the US has only ever come from his own imagination, AFAIK.
  #210  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:30 PM
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Bumped.

Assange is now officially the worst. houseguest. EVER: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/uk/ju...ntl/index.html
  #211  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:11 PM
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Bumped.

Assange is now officially the worst. houseguest. EVER: https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/uk/ju...ntl/index.html
My favorite part:

Quote:
...he must not only keep the spaces inside the embassy clean, but also take care of his cat....The leaked document says that the 47-year-old is at risk of losing both his pet and his asylum status if he does not comply.
So is the cat pooping on the carpets?
  #212  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:26 PM
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Julian Assange (remember him?) update


He has to empty his cat's litter boxes?!?

Just one more example of man's inhumanity to man.
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Last edited by Northern Piper; 10-19-2018 at 08:26 PM.
  #213  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:29 PM
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Julian Assange (remember him?) update


Benjamin Franklin: "Fish and houseguests begin to stink after three days three weeks three years?!? pray God, make it stop !!!
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Last edited by Northern Piper; 10-19-2018 at 08:31 PM.
  #214  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:31 PM
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I'm a cat fancier and I'd enjoy a London vacation. How about I replace the nutter for a couple of weeks.
  #215  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:22 AM
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I think we'd all enjoy a chat with him. I say Muffin goes in and Assange comes out.
  #216  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:30 AM
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I'm a cat fancier and I'd enjoy a London vacation. How about I replace the nutter for a couple of weeks.
Actually, it would be an Ecuadorian Embassy vacation. I think you would exhaust the sight-seeing possibilities in a few hours.
  #217  
Old 10-20-2018, 01:44 AM
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I wonder if London is now considered a hardship posting by the Ecuadorian Foreign Service?
  #218  
Old 10-20-2018, 01:44 AM
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I'll go. I could use some "me" time.
  #219  
Old 10-20-2018, 03:02 PM
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I'm not entirely sure why, but it surprises me that Baltasar Garzón (judge of the Spanish Court that indicted Pinochet), is representing Assange. I would think he'd have better things to do with his time.

Granted, genuine issues of asylum are involved, the cat notwithstanding. Under international law, asylum claimants must have freedom of speech.
  #220  
Old 10-20-2018, 03:43 PM
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I'm not entirely sure why, but it surprises me that Baltasar Garzón (judge of the Spanish Court that indicted Pinochet), is representing Assange. I would think he'd have better things to do with his time.

Granted, genuine issues of asylum are involved, the cat notwithstanding. Under international law, asylum claimants must have freedom of speech.
When I'm in charge of a group, I figure I should do the stuff no one else wants to do.

The cat is probably peeing on the carpet. How does a guy hiding out in an embassy acquire a cat?
  #221  
Old 10-20-2018, 03:49 PM
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It always amazes me how many rich and famous people feel that having to do things like 'clean up after your cat' or 'pay for your food' are horrible impositions on their basic human rights.
  #222  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:06 PM
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It always amazes me how many rich and famous people feel that having to do things like 'clean up after your cat' or 'pay for your food' are horrible impositions on their basic human rights.
He once had little people to do that.
  #223  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:42 PM
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When I'm in charge of a group, I figure I should do the stuff no one else wants to do.

The cat is probably peeing on the carpet. How does a guy hiding out in an embassy acquire a cat?
His kids gave him the cat.
  #224  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:43 PM
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The cat is probably peeing on the carpet.
Of course it is - it is the Wikileaks cat. If his bathroom is filthy, Assange must leak too...
  #225  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:44 PM
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Maybe he'd feel more cooperative if the Ecuadorians offerend him a visit from the Saudo visiting team, complete with doctor and bone saw.
  #226  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:03 PM
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All the wrong people are getting murdered in embassies these days.
  #227  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:22 PM
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Granted, genuine issues of asylum are involved, the cat notwithstanding. Under international law, asylum claimants must have freedom of speech.
Is he an asylum claimant? Can you claim asylum in a country you're not in, and have it mean anything?

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 10-20-2018 at 10:24 PM.
  #228  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:46 AM
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There appear to be real espionage concerns and his hosts are putting limits on his access to the Internet or potential liaisons. On the other hand, if he wishes freedom of speech, all he has to do is leave.
  #229  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:52 AM
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It always amazes me how many rich and famous people feel that having to do things like 'clean up after your cat' or 'pay for your food' are horrible impositions on their basic human rights.
He may be famous, but is he rich?
  #230  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:53 AM
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Is he an asylum claimant? Can you claim asylum in a country you're not in, and have it mean anything?
It worked for József Mindszenty for fifteen years.
  #231  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:10 AM
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Granted, genuine issues of asylum are involved, the cat notwithstanding.
Well, he says there are. It's a matter of debate whether anyone in the past, present or future has or will treated him with the kind of persecution the Geneva Convention is concerned with. AFAIK, the only thing he's wanted for in Britain is jumping bail. Does anyone else have outstanding charges against him? The US might, but have any US authorities made any substantive moves to proceed with such?
  #232  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:56 AM
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The US might, but have any US authorities made any substantive moves to proceed with such?
Not publicly, but it's theoretically possible that he's been indicted in secret, and that the charges (whatever they'd be, if there are any) will only be unsealed once he's apprehended.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 10-21-2018 at 07:57 AM.
  #233  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:17 PM
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Is he an asylum claimant? Can you claim asylum in a country you're not in, and have it mean anything?
Asylum procedures vary by country, but generally you can apply for asylum in a country's embassy abroad. Ecuador granted him asylum and he has the legal status of a refugee.
  #234  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:22 PM
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Well, he says there are. It's a matter of debate whether anyone in the past, present or future has or will treated him with the kind of persecution the Geneva Convention is concerned with. AFAIK, the only thing he's wanted for in Britain is jumping bail. Does anyone else have outstanding charges against him? The US might, but have any US authorities made any substantive moves to proceed with such?
(sorry. can't get multi-quotes to work)

it's not the Geneva Conventions that apply but rather the 1951 Refugee Convention and the 1967 Protocol.

I don't believe he faces charges other than the bail jumping one. It's hard to see the Trump administration going after him, given how it's benefitted from Wikileaks. So Ecuador really ought to boot him out.
  #235  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:33 PM
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...On the other hand, if he wishes freedom of speech, all he has to do is leave.
I would love to be there to see him bodily thrown out of the embassy and into the eager arms of the London Metropolitan police.

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...It's hard to see the Trump administration going after him, given how it's benefitted from Wikileaks....
You are expecting consistency from this administration? They'll go after him with all guns blazing just for messin' with Murrica.
  #236  
Old 10-21-2018, 11:50 PM
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How does a guy hiding out in an embassy acquire a cat?

The same way anybody acquires a cat. The cat just turns up and purrs until it gets fed. Then it keeps pissing everywhere to remind you who's the pet in this relationship.
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  #237  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:13 AM
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Why did Ecuador involve itself in all of this to begin with?

Did they truly feel that he deserved protection?

Do they have laws saying that their embassies must accept refugees (something I highly doubt)?

Is Assange blackmailing them somehow?
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  #238  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:06 AM
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Of course it is - it is the Wikileaks cat. If his bathroom is filthy, Assange must leak too...
Do they know if it's the cat, or Assange, who is peeing on the carpet?

I understand that Sweden has many rooms available for Assange that have clean bathrooms and are free of cat pee stains/smells. He would only need to ask for one in person.
  #239  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:09 AM
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Why did Ecuador involve itself in all of this to begin with?

Did they truly feel that he deserved protection?

Do they have laws saying that their embassies must accept refugees (something I highly doubt)?

Is Assange blackmailing them somehow?
Ecuador has a long tradition of offering asylum to the politically persecuted. And the president at the time, Rafael Correa, enjoyed thumbing his nose at the United States.
  #240  
Old 10-22-2018, 08:32 PM
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How long until Correa needs to find an embassy to hide in?

Perhaps one of the reasons for evicting the cat hater is to clean house from Correa's days.
  #241  
Old 10-30-2018, 12:44 AM
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A judge in Ecuador has now ruled that Assange must clean up after his cat, pay for his laundry and medical bills, stop damaging the building with his soccer playing and skateboarding... and stop hacking embassy communications. The judge says that these demands do not violate his rights.

Assange has vowed to appeal. Oh, the humanity!


Q. Is Assange the world's ultimate sulky, immature teenager?


But going beyond his cat and laundry, the Guardian has reported that

Quote:
In an extraordinary breach of diplomatic protocol, Assange managed to compromise the communications system within the embassy and had his own satellite internet access, according to documents and a source who wished to remain anonymous. By penetrating the embassy’s firewall, Assange was able to access and intercept the official and personal communications of staff, the source claimed.
...
In 2014, the company hired to film Assange’s visitors was warning the Ecuadorian government that he was “intercepting and gathering information from the embassy and the people who worked there”.
  #242  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:57 AM
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Well of course he was!

Assange's world-view is that all governments hide secrets that the public has the right to know, and it's his job to uncover those secrets.

The Ecuador Embassy is run by a government. Therefore, it has secrets which it is Assange's duty to uncover.

All quite simple really.
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  #243  
Old 10-31-2018, 02:58 AM
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Well of course he was!

Assange's world-view is that all governments hide secrets that the public has the right to know, and it's his job to uncover those secrets.
Except that some governments are more equal than others.

Apparently Hilary Clinton's emails were a far higher priority for Wikileaks in 2016 than Putin's dealings... or Trump's.


WikiLeaks Turned Down Leaks on Russian Government During U.S. Presidential Campaign

The leak organization ignored damaging information on the Kremlin to focus on Hillary Clinton and election-related hacks.

Quote:
“Many Wikileaks staff and volunteers or their families suffered at the hands of Russian corruption and cruelty, we were sure Wikileaks would release it. Assange gave excuse after excuse.”
...
Approached later that year by the same source about data from an American security company, WikiLeaks again turned down the leak. “Is there an election angle? We’re not doing anything until after the election unless its [sic] fast or election related,” WikiLeaks wrote. “We don’t have the resources.”

Anything not connected to the election would be “diversionary,” WikiLeaks wrote.
...
In late August 2016, when WikiLeaks’s Clinton disclosures were in full swing, Assange said he had information on Trump but that it wasn’t worth publishing.
 
Wikileaks is not a neutral organisation. Assange has his own political agenda, and he is probably hoping for eventual asylum in Russia.
  #244  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:34 PM
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...Wikileaks is not a neutral organisation. Assange has his own political agenda, and he is probably hoping for eventual asylum in Russia.
Maybe he can share a Kremlin flat with Edward Snowden.
  #245  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:10 PM
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Except that some governments are more equal than others.



Apparently Hilary Clinton's emails were a far higher priority for Wikileaks in 2016 than Putin's dealings... or Trump's.





WikiLeaks Turned Down Leaks on Russian Government During U.S. Presidential Campaign



The leak organization ignored damaging information on the Kremlin to focus on Hillary Clinton and election-related hacks.







Wikileaks is not a neutral organisation. Assange has his own political agenda, and he is probably hoping for eventual asylum in Russia.


Devil, work, idle hands, etc.

Julian got bored and started to investigate his hosts.


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  #246  
Old 11-12-2018, 04:32 PM
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ISTM deliberately compromising the security of embassy communications would suffice, for most countries, to withdraw sanctuary and kick you to the curb. I have to believe Ecuador must worry about a potential massive cybershitstorm to hit them if they just tell Assange to go get crammed.
  #247  
Old 11-12-2018, 05:06 PM
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But his kitty!

Those nice Ecuadorians are thinking of his kitty, forced onto the harsh streets of London!


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  #248  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:38 PM
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ISTM deliberately compromising the security of embassy communications would suffice, for most countries, to withdraw sanctuary
It's no longer a case of sanctuary. He's a citizen of Ecuador. Revoking citizenship is generally a higher legal hurdle.

They naturalized him last December. It was part of a ploy to get him diplomatic protection so he could then travel to the airport without being arrested. The UK chose not to recognize him as a diplomat.

I'm sure it sounded like a good plan .
  #249  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:20 PM
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But his kitty!

Those nice Ecuadorians are thinking of his kitty, forced onto the harsh streets of London!....
Me-owwww.
  #250  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:21 PM
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ISTM deliberately compromising the security of embassy communications would suffice, for most countries, to withdraw sanctuary and kick you to the curb. I have to believe Ecuador must worry about a potential massive cybershitstorm to hit them if they just tell Assange to go get crammed.
Now here they are - caught between Wikileaks/Russia and USA/UK. They really didn't think this one through at all.
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