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  #201  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Wanna bet there are more subpoenas coming?
I don't expect any that are not Flynn (or Carter Page, though he's too much of an idiot to be charged) related. But if there are any, THEN the breathless revelations of subpoenas would be justified. These are just ho-hum.
  #202  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:36 PM
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Little more than locker room talk, really.
  #203  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:51 PM
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BTW - about "timing" - the subpoenas were issued some weeks ago.
  #204  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:39 AM
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You do understand that nuclear option has already been deployed and that anyone Trump appoints only needs 50 votes in the Senate, right?
I had understood that it was just the cabinet and (now) Supreme Court justices that could get through with 51%. If the FBI director is in there too, than that's quite unfortunate.
  #205  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:09 AM
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I had understood that it was just the cabinet and (now) Supreme Court justices that could get through with 51%. If the FBI director is in there too, than that's quite unfortunate.
My understanding was that Harry Reid's nuclear rule change was for all non-SCOTUS nominees. Judges, cabinet, FBI Director, etc. Lots of people tried to warn Reid and Dems at the time that it would be unfortunate. They did not listen.
  #206  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:30 AM
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I don't see how it's unfortunate at all. The worst thing the Republicans in the Senate could do right now is rubber-stamp an FBI director who is going to let Trump off the hook. How many Republican Senators are going to continue sticking their necks out for Trump as Trump continues to attempt self-immolation? Party before country I can see. Party before self-interest? Not so much.
  #207  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:09 AM
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Either you or I has a horribly erroneous understanding of the requirements to appoint a new FBI Director. Here is mine: Harry Reid eliminated the 60-vote filibuster threshold for all non-SCOTUS presidential nominees back in 2013. The Democrats can't block shit.
And I suppose you're proud of your party's eventual nomination and confirmation of Ted fucking Nugent.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 05-10-2017 at 04:09 AM.
  #208  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:29 AM
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And you know that would be the Democrat's fault for allowing Republicans to do it, too.
  #209  
Old 05-10-2017, 08:40 AM
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And I suppose you're proud of your party's eventual nomination and confirmation of Ted fucking Nugent.
What have you that idea? I like Ted, but he's not really FBI Director material.
  #210  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:36 AM
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We are reassured.
  #211  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:59 AM
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What have you that idea? I like Ted, but he's not really FBI Director material.
Trump has made a habit of putting people in positions that they are not qualified for. Starting with POTUS.
  #212  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:23 PM
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The worst thing the Republicans in the Senate could do right now is rubber-stamp an FBI director who is going to let Trump off the hook. How many Republican Senators are going to continue sticking their necks out for Trump as Trump continues to attempt self-immolation? Party before country I can see. Party before self-interest? Not so much.
Part of the Russia CT is that the GOP or at least its leadership is being blackmailed by Russia (RNC emails, never released, awash in Russian dark money). So on top of their usual love of consolidating power, don't count on that.
  #213  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:26 PM
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That's the more limited CT. The real CT goes far beyond that.

The real CT is that all 63 million people who voted for Trump were all being blackmailed by Russia (via hacks of gmail, yahoo, and all other hacks of anyone by anyone over the last 10 years).

It's the only rational explanation for his victory ...
  #214  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:41 PM
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And you know that would be the Democrat's fault for allowing Republicans to do it, too.
I thought that it would be Obama and Hillary's fault.
  #215  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:34 PM
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I thought that it would be Obama and Hillary's fault.
Obama and Hillary are out of politics and safely neutralized. Now, things will be blamed on those Democrats who might present a future threat, like Elizabeth Warren. In fact, the Benghazi attack and Hillary's e-mail server may turn out to be Warren's fault, too.
  #216  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:50 PM
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That's the more limited CT. The real CT goes far beyond that.

The real CT is that all 63 million people who voted for Trump were all being blackmailed by Russia (via hacks of gmail, yahoo, and all other hacks of anyone by anyone over the last 10 years).

It's the only rational explanation for his victory ...
Or...people are stupid.
  #217  
Old 05-10-2017, 08:26 PM
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Obama and Hillary are out of politics and safely neutralized. Now, things will be blamed on those Democrats who might present a future threat, like Elizabeth Warren. In fact, the Benghazi attack and Hillary's e-mail server may turn out to be Warren's fault, too.
But aren't they currently blaming Obama for their lack of vetting of Flynn?

Last edited by dasmoocher; 05-10-2017 at 08:27 PM.
  #218  
Old 05-10-2017, 08:31 PM
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Or...people are stupid.
Please.... they are the common clay of the new west.
  #219  
Old 05-11-2017, 06:14 AM
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Please.... they are the common clay of the new west.
Dems
  #220  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:28 PM
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Seems relevant.

Not much information yet, but the FBI is executing a search warrant on a GOP fundraising firm in Virginia.
  #221  
Old 05-11-2017, 01:21 PM
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Seems relevant.

Not much information yet, but the FBI is executing a search warrant on a GOP fundraising firm in Virginia.
If it's actually relevant, then we could probably expect to not hear anything more about it for a while.
  #222  
Old 05-11-2017, 02:47 PM
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No go.
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Rogers, who said his firm represents the campaign committees for Maryland House and Senate candidates, told reporters that the FBI investigation concerns work the firm performed during the 2013 Virginia gubernatorial campaign of former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, a Republican.

According to Rogers, his firm settled a civil suit brought by the Cuccinelli campaign after he lost that race to Democrat Terry McAuliffe. Rogers said the investigation appears to have stemmed from allegations brought in that suit.

The Cuccinelli suit alleged that Strategic Campaign Group and the associated Conservative Strike Force Political Action Committee — an independent group not affiliated with the candidate — raised about $2.2 million by assuring donors it would spend the money to help elect the GOP candidate. The suit alleged that the PAC and Strategic Campaign Group failed to follow through on promises for an extensive media campaign on Cuccinelli's behalf.
  #223  
Old 05-11-2017, 03:02 PM
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This is interesting information. I would just point out that the person saying the raid has noting to do with the Russia clusterfuck is presumably one of the people under the investigation that sparked the raid. The guy running the firm that was raided is saying, "Nope! Nothing to do with Russia here! This is the fallout of allegations made four years ago during a civil case and the FBI is just now getting around to raiding me because.... they're busy people, I guess?"

I withhold judgement on whether this is related to the Russia clusterfuck. I have no idea, really. I just don't share your confident "No go" based on statements made by the guy who was just rousted by the Feds.

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 05-11-2017 at 03:03 PM.
  #224  
Old 05-11-2017, 03:10 PM
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The thing is that there's zero reason to think it had anything to do with Russia. It's not like it looks Russia-related and the guy being raided is saying "Nope! Nothing to do with Russia here! ...", as you suggest. The only people bringing up Russia are in this thread. (The guy being raided is probably not a poster to this MB ).

Even aside from that, I don't know that the guy would have much incentive to attribute the raid to one cause versus another. Especially as the truth will come out anyway.

In general, the FBI frequently takes a very long time before they get to the point of raiding things. And in this case, you would need to date the timing from when the allegations were made in the lawsuit, not from the date of the election.
  #225  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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But aren't they currently blaming Obama for their lack of vetting of Flynn?
The Obama administration did vet Flynn, and chose not to remove/downgrade Flynn's security clearance. The Obama administration was then nice enough to warn the Trump campaign that Flynn shouldn't/couldn't be trusted. It would have been even nicer if the Obama administration had simply removed Flynn's security rating.
  #226  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:31 PM
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The Obama admin gently encouraged Flynn to expand his horizons and seek opportunity outside the confines of the military and the security apparatus. Flynn heeded this advice, and resigned from such positions as might require a security clearance. Hence, no such clearance was required.
  #227  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:39 PM
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Trump supporter logic: Flynn was fired from a very important and highly sensitive job. If someone else was stupid enough to hire him for another very important and highly sensitive job even after being warned not to by the first person, then it must be the fault of the first person who fired him.
  #228  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:40 PM
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The Obama admin gently encouraged Flynn to expand his horizons and seek opportunity outside the confines of the military and the security apparatus. Flynn heeded this advice, and resigned from such positions as might require a security clearance. Hence, no such clearance was required.
Not a single word of warning.
  #229  
Old 05-11-2017, 05:58 PM
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The Obama administration did vet Flynn, and chose not to remove/downgrade Flynn's security clearance. The Obama administration was then nice enough to warn the Trump campaign that Flynn shouldn't/couldn't be trusted. It would have been even nicer if the Obama administration had simply removed Flynn's security rating.
Do you know what SCI is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...CI_eligibility

While Flynn may have been unsuitable for National Security Advisor, effectively granting him access to all compartments, there may have been compartments he could be allowed to access in the right contexts. Or at least the decision would be made on a compartment-by-compartment basis and he may never again have been allowed access to any compartments, which would effectively have been removing his clearance without officially needing to do so.

In any case, while Flynn was under investigation, I always thought the warning not to hire him had less to do with his questionable ties to Russia than the fact that he was a first-class asshole who should never be put in charge of anyone/anything.
  #230  
Old 05-12-2017, 03:47 AM
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This is interesting information. I would just point out that the person saying the raid has noting to do with the Russia clusterfuck is presumably one of the people under the investigation that sparked the raid. The guy running the firm that was raided is saying, "Nope! Nothing to do with Russia here! This is the fallout of allegations made four years ago during a civil case and the FBI is just now getting around to raiding me because.... they're busy people, I guess?"

I withhold judgement on whether this is related to the Russia clusterfuck. I have no idea, really. I just don't share your confident "No go" based on statements made by the guy who was just rousted by the Feds.
There's a loose connection to Paul Manafort - one news story reports "The firm's website said one of its principles was formerly associated with a firm operated by Paul Manafort, who is the former Trump campaign manager whose business dealings with Russia are under intense scrutiny" - but that's hardly a smoking gun at this point.

Still, the timing is very odd. Maybe this is the FBI firing a warning shot across the Republicans' bow, saying effectively "If you continue to mess with the FBI we will mess with you in ways you won't see coming and will not enjoy. Bigly."
  #231  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:56 AM
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Still, the timing is very odd. Maybe this is the FBI firing a warning shot across the Republicans' bow, saying effectively "If you continue to mess with the FBI we will mess with you in ways you won't see coming and will not enjoy. Bigly."
Since I presume that one needs a warrant to go raiding one of the nation's largest political parties, and those probably take more than a couple hours to get when you consider all of the evidence you need to collect and send in as part of the request, I think it's safe to rule out retaliation for Comey's firing.
  #232  
Old 05-15-2017, 04:57 PM
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From the Washington Post
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President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”
  #233  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:00 PM
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I suppose if this is true, people will just say "oh well, there's no recourse so whatever" and 45 will just keep trucking along with his unstable so-called leadership.
  #234  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:22 PM
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I suppose if this is true, people will just say "oh well, there's no recourse so whatever" and 45 will just keep trucking along with his unstable so-called leadership.
I believe the current line of bullshit from the Trump Protectors is to deny, deny, deny that Trump every did or said stuff that the Washington Post never said he did.

"Nope nope, Trump never revealed the exact name of the source". (protip: The WP never said that he did. However Trump did reveal enough classified details so that the Russians could easily deduce more.)

Last edited by Euphonious Polemic; 05-15-2017 at 09:23 PM.
  #235  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:28 PM
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Is pack of lies made up by Moose and Squirrel!
  #236  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:39 PM
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Um, from what I have read, that story has been contradicted by just about everyone in the room.

This is what happens when you abandon journalistic standards and start running stories based on singular, anonymous leaks. You become a tool for anyone who wants to smear someone else.

Also, whoever leaked that to thepress committed a felony. So far as I know, the only provable crimes that have been committed to date have been the felonies committed by the people leaking all this to the press.

From the same article, but buried under the lede:

Quote:
White House officials involved in the meeting said Trump discussed only shared concerns about terrorism.

“The president and the foreign minister reviewed common threats from terrorist organizations to include threats to aviation,” said H.R. McMaster, the national security adviser, who participated in the meeting. “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed, and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”

McMaster reiterated his statement in a subsequent appearance at the White House on Monday and described the Washington Post story as “false,” but did not take any questions.
I think Trump is an ass, but McMaster has a sterling reputation for telling the truth. And other people who were there back him up completely. I will believe him over an anonymous source and a salivating press any day of the week.

I swear, the media is its own worst enemy. The constant hysteria over every little thing Trump does is wearing out their credibility with the people, and by the time they actually have real dirt on Trump no one will pay attention to them.
  #237  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:53 PM
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Really Sam? Respected media outlets are fake news reporting and the administration has covered itself in its sterling reputation? That's what your going with?
  #238  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:01 PM
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Forget it, Biggirl. It's Russiatown.
  #239  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:10 PM
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Whitehouse toadies (McMaster) are denying that Trump directly talked about sources or methods:

Quote:
"At no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed and the President did not disclose any military operations that weren't already publicly known," he said. "I was in the room. It didn't happen."
Small problem Sam Stone: The original story NEVER CLAIMED that Trump discussed sources or methods. McMaster just denied something that nobody ever said happened.

However:

Quote:
Two former officials knowledgeable of the situation confirmed to CNN that the main points of the Post story are accurate: The President shared classified information with the Russian foreign minister.
The President did not directly reveal the source of the information, but intelligence officials told CNN that there is concern that Russia will be able to figure out the highly sensitive source.
Trump blabbed. He blabbed too much. He said stuff he should not have. He said enough that the Russians will be able to gain a lot of information.

And yet here you are, again carrying Trump's water, making excuses for him.

Last edited by Euphonious Polemic; 05-15-2017 at 10:11 PM.
  #240  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:11 PM
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Forget it, Biggirl. It's Russiatown.
The GOP does use the color Red.
  #241  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:42 PM
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You mean members of the Trump admin said that the Trump admin didn't do anything wrong? Thank goodness! For a moment there I thought we were in trouble.

Trump did get the Comey story off the news though. Leaking this story is surely a subtle Jedi mind trick, and Trump has us liberals right where he wants us.
  #242  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:47 PM
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In Trump's defense, he's really really stupid and you bunch of Negative Nellies always focus on the bad stuff. What about the fact that didn't blurt out the nuke codes or give them the Declaration of Independence as a gift? He's showing great restraint.
  #243  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:53 PM
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I think Trump is an ass, but McMaster has a sterling reputation for telling the truth.
So was Colin Powell..
  #244  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:11 PM
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Pretty sure we were reminded about Mike Flynn's "sterling reputation". As well as what a total straight-shooter Comey was.
  #245  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:06 AM
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Also, whoever leaked that to thepress committed a felony.
The law is a little shaky, but information is classified/declassified by the president, so if he revealed classified information, it is implied that he declassified it first. If someone leaked it, they can claim it was declassified by the president. If Trump says he didn't declassify it, they would both theoretically go to jail.
  #246  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:46 AM
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Trump confirms that he babbled, doubles down on the "it's not illegal if the President does it" defense.

From Trump's Twitter -
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...36162567471104

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017


Further reading:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ts-with-russia

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009


http://www.salon.com/2017/05/16/real...ean-up-effort/


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-russia-238433
  #247  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:58 AM
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Trump confirms that he babbled, doubles down on the "it's not illegal if the President does it" defense.

From Trump's Twitter -
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...36162567471104

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 16, 2017


Further reading:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...ts-with-russia

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009


http://www.salon.com/2017/05/16/real...ean-up-effort/


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-russia-238433

Holy crap! Wotta worthless sack o' shit! I'd like to see him impeached and removed.
But would Pence do any better? Is he in cahoots with the Russkies too, I wonder?
  #248  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:09 AM
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Pence? He was in charge of the transition process while Sergey Kislyak was playing footsie in Trump Tower with Michael Flynn and Jared Kushner and Jeff Sessions.

Don't forget - the Russians hacked both the DNC & the RNC. The Russians have material on both the Republicans and the Democrats. They released the Democratic material to put the Republican in the Whitehouse. They held back the RNC material ... purely out of the goodness of their hearts, I guess?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/0...?_r=0&referer=

Quote:
Originally Posted by David E Sanger & Scott Shane for NYT

American intelligence agencies have concluded with “high confidence” that Russia acted covertly in the latter stages of the presidential campaign to harm Hillary Clinton’s chances and promote Donald J. Trump, according to senior administration officials.

They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding — which they say was also reached with high confidence — that the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.
  #249  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:15 AM
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Any other day this would be a pretty major story. Manafort, Trump's campaign manager got an unrecorded 3.5 million dollar loan through a shell corporation on the day he was ousted from the campaign for having ties to pro-Russian groups. Hard to track the money, but, obviously there is a Trump link in there:

"A review of New York state and Suffolk County records shows the loan was made by S C 3, a subsidiary of Spruce Capital, which was co-founded by Joshua Crane, who has partnered with Donald Trump on real estate deals. Spruce is also partially funded by Ukrainian-American real-estate magnate Alexander Rovt, who tried to donate $10,000 to Trump's presidential campaign on Election Day but had all but the legal maximum of $2,700 returned."

This is going to be more about money laundering and campaign finance than Russians.
  #250  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:43 AM
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Trump confirms that he babbled, doubles down on the "it's not illegal if the President does it" defense.
Right, but pretty much directly contradicting the spin his team was doing the night before. So remember lets keep the timeline clear:

1) Trump fires Comey claiming its about emails (of course)
2) The very next fucking day he meets the Russian foreign minister and ambassador and blabs confidential information which US allies which provided it did not give permission to share, possibly resulting in the death and torture of the intelligence source
3) Trump then admits in the Lester Holt interview that he fired Comey because of Russia
4) 3) is leaked, White House flat out denies it, Trump confirms and contradicts them in his early morning twitter rant...

Come on, there's only two possibilities here: Either Trump has dementia and is unfit to serve or he's deeply comprised by Russia and guilty of treason. (actually, why not both???)

Last edited by coremelt; 05-16-2017 at 08:44 AM.
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