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  #301  
Old 02-26-2019, 01:34 PM
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Corporate donations were pouring in for Clinton. It wasn’t a smear..

As they do for all major presidential candidates.
  #302  
Old 02-26-2019, 01:48 PM
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In the interest of full disclosure, WillFarnaby, I reported that post. It (my reason for reporting it) had nothing to do with the corporate aspect. It was about the term "SuperPredator," which, in my opinion, was an unnecessary dig in a thread where everyone was being civil to each other.

Of course, I'm not a moderator, so that's just one person's opinion.
Where was the term "Superpredator" in post #293? I must have missed that.
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  #303  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:48 PM
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Where was the term "Superpredator" in post #293? I must have missed that.
Try post 291.
  #304  
Old 02-26-2019, 04:45 PM
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For anyone wanting a deep dive into Harris' views on prostitution, a new interview was published today.
  #305  
Old 03-23-2019, 07:40 PM
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I'm for Kamala Harris because while she may not stand out for any one particular quality, she's the best synthesis of desirable qualities overall. She has charisma, guts, smarts, strong progressive positions tempered with moderation, and she's a woman. Yes, I care about electing women and I won't apologize for that. Regardless, I'll vote for whoever gets the Dem nomination.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:49 PM
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Most recent Emerson Nevada poll is not good news for Harris.

The path for Harris depends on her doing well in next door Nevada where she has spent a lot of time in the past and is already a pretty well known entity. This is the state that she has to count on being in the bag. Being behind Biden (26%) and Sanders (23%) respectively at this point is one thing. Not getting into double digits and being behind both Warren and O'Rourke with Buttigieg nipping up from below, is another.

Not good.

She's got work to do, lots of work to do ...
  #307  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:39 PM
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Harris isn't even polling well in CA. From the crosstabs page 24:
Quote:
Q22. Do you think
Kamala Harris
should run for US
President in 2020, or
not?
For all adults, 40% said yes. 45% said no.

Too bad to. I'd like to see her get crushed.

Last edited by Bone; 03-31-2019 at 09:40 PM.
  #308  
Old 03-31-2019, 10:17 PM
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Yeah not sure how to interpret that in regards to the D primary (and in the general she'd take the state) In the likely voter crosstabs Ds say yes 56 to 35% but even that does not translate to whether or not they'd vote for her vs any specific someone else.
  #309  
Old 04-01-2019, 04:40 AM
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Harris isn't even polling well in CA. From the crosstabs page 24:

For all adults, 40% said yes. 45% said no.

Too bad to. I'd like to see her get crushed.
Would you support Trump (who's bragged about violating the consent of women on multiple occasions, etc.) over Harris?
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:47 AM
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Amy Klobuchar is the female candidate I think might be most electable, but Cory Booker has promised(?) to pick a female as his VP running mate. Good enough?
  #311  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:38 AM
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Would you support Trump (who's bragged about violating the consent of women on multiple occasions, etc.) over Harris?
Would you support Biden, who has been credidlbly accused of violating the consent of women? What if it were Biden vs Trump?

I find your fixation on this, and in particular the way you have to word it because it's so weak of a criticism compared to so many other things, especially tiresome. And on top of that, this thread is about Harris.

In any event, I didn't vote for Trump last time, and wouldn't in 2020. I'm in CA so it doesn't matter anyways. I am glad Trump is president rather than Clinton. I don't support either. Same calculus for Trump vs Harris.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:15 AM
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Would you support Biden, who has been credidlbly accused of violating the consent of women? What if it were Biden vs Trump?
Based on the allegation and response so far, I'd support Biden, who has not been credibly accused of sexual assault (but rather violating someone's personal space in a non-sexual way), and who hasn't bragged about committing sexual assault and violating the consent of women and girls. But I'm not sure if I'd support Biden over any of the other Democratic candidates, since it is indeed a serious and credible allegation of violating someone's consent for their personal space.

Quote:
I find your fixation on this, and in particular the way you have to word it because it's so weak of a criticism compared to so many other things, especially tiresome. And on top of that, this thread is about Harris.
That you find it "so weak of a criticism" is extremely troubling to me, and IMO representative of how tolerant so much of our country is of sexual assault/harrasment/violating consent.
  #313  
Old 04-01-2019, 11:19 AM
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I am glad Trump is president rather than Clinton. I don't support either. Same calculus for Trump vs Harris.
I know this is a Harris thread, but this is incomprehensible to me.
  #314  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:52 AM
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Harris's excellent line of questioning yesterday, which induced stammering nonsense from Bill Barr, boosts Harris a bit in my thinking for who I want to win the 2020 nomination.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:45 PM
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Harris's excellent line of questioning yesterday, which induced stammering nonsense from Bill Barr, boosts Harris a bit in my thinking for who I want to win the 2020 nomination.
Cite? Linky?
  #316  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:55 PM
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Is your google machine on the fritz?
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  #317  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:56 PM
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https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...s-william-barr
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  #318  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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Is your google machine on the fritz?
Gotta be something wrong with it considering the quality of cites in this thread.
  #319  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:54 PM
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It makes one suspect that she has some real potential to break out during debates.
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:36 PM
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I don't know anything about her, really. All I know is that I just watched her expose Barr as a blubbering fool. Still way early in the game, so I'd like her to get a boost from that.

Last edited by bobot; 05-02-2019 at 06:37 PM.
  #321  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:26 AM
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How do you pronounce her first name?

I had originally heard it as Kuh Maw Luh. But this morning on NPR's Morning Edition, two different reporters pronounced as rhyming with Pamela, but beginning with a K.

So which is it?
  #322  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:28 AM
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I've heard "KAH muh luh" -- close to Pamela, but with the first syllable like "hot" rather than "hat".
  #323  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:53 AM
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This article in Marie Claire: https://www.marieclaire.com/politics...a-harris-name/

say it is Comma Lah.
  #324  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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No one wants to discuss her proposal to fine companies that pay men more than women?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN1SQ0YH?il=0
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:43 AM
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No one wants to discuss her proposal to fine companies that pay men more than women?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN1SQ0YH?il=0
I'm for it.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:09 PM
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Requiring companies to send in all their pay data, and assuming that the companies are guilty of discrimination until proven innocent, seems problematic to me.

I would hope that anyone with any sense, which may or may not include Ms. Harris, is aware that the alleged pay gap between men and women isn't due to gender bias, but proving it over and over, especially to an organization that hopes to collect $18 billion a year if they decline to believe it, is unfortunately typical of a certain kind of thinking. Maybe she is thinking of how much easier her job as a prosecutor would have been if she could have shifted the burden of proof.

I wonder what Ms. Harris pays her campaign consultants. Maybe she's learned something in the last few years.

Regards,
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  #327  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:16 PM
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I would hope that anyone with any sense, which may or may not include Ms. Harris, is aware that the alleged pay gap between men and women isn't due to gender bias
In my understanding, the data suggests that the entirety of the pay gap is probably not due to gender bias, but parts of it still may be. Further, the gap may be influenced by things that are not directly "gender bias", but are still related concepts -- for example, if relatively few women choose a certain lucrative education or industry path because they discover that this path generally treats women poorly, then this could negatively affect their salaries, even if it's not directly due to bias by their employer.
  #328  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:21 PM
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In my understanding, the data suggests that the entirety of the pay gap is probably not due to gender bias, but parts of it still may be. Further, the gap may be influenced by things that are not directly "gender bias", but are still related concepts -- for example, if relatively few women choose a certain lucrative education or industry path because they discover that this path generally treats women poorly, then this could negatively affect their salaries, even if it's not directly due to bias by their employer.
I concur. Most of the gender gap isnt due to gender bias, but as long as it is "same pay for same job with same qualifications' I am good with that. I mean, we had a woman complaining she was getting paid less than me for example (she was half kidding, she didnt file a real complaint) until I pointed out I had 10 years a a higher degree than her.
  #329  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:32 PM
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No one wants to discuss her proposal to fine companies that pay men more than women?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN1SQ0YH?il=0
That seems like a laughably stupid idea with little to no chance of coming to fruition. I interpret it as a sign she sees her campaign as not being successful currently and needing some way to spark interest or get herself in the news. Too bad too, I was hoping she could get the nomination - her getting crushed in the primaries is too soon.
  #330  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:34 PM
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Too bad too, I was hoping she could get the nomination - her getting crushed in the primaries is too soon.
I know! Can't have the chance of a non-sexual-assaulter in the White House, eh?
  #331  
Old 05-20-2019, 02:58 PM
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TBH it seems like a dumb idea, if you want to solve problems like this, not to mention get other related ones like racial pay issues in the same net, it'd be a far more prudent move to strengthen organized labor and collective bargaining than try and do some roundabout pay data analysis. Not to mention the gig economy is effectively immune to this and is a much bigger issue for people (even women) in poverty.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:18 PM
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I concur. Most of the gender gap isnt due to gender bias, but as long as it is "same pay for same job with same qualifications' I am good with that. I mean, we had a woman complaining she was getting paid less than me for example (she was half kidding, she didnt file a real complaint) until I pointed out I had 10 years a a higher degree than her.
Why would that matter if you were doing the same job? Your pay should be based upon the job requirements, not the employee's credentials or tenure.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:27 PM
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Why would that matter if you were doing the same job? Your pay should be based upon the job requirements, not the employee's credentials or tenure.
Do you think an employee who has been ten years on the job should be paid the same as the hire from three months ago?

If so, and Ms. Harris agrees, that's another reason I hope her plan isn't implemented. Because I can't take the chance of hiring a woman at a starting salary - I will be accused of discrimination, and seniority won't be a good enough reason.

Regards,
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:46 PM
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Why would that matter if you were doing the same job? Your pay should be based upon the job requirements, not the employee's credentials or tenure.
Because if you have more time in the job, you have seniority and thus more experience. You are harder to replace, and thus more valuable.

In theory, if you have a higher education you are also more valuable.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:55 PM
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Because if you have more time in the job, you have seniority and thus more experience. You are harder to replace, and thus more valuable.

In theory, if you have a higher education you are also more valuable.
If you have seniority, do you have more responsibilities than the person making less than you?

If you don't and have the exact same responsibilities as the person with less pay, what sort of value are you actually bringing?

If the person with less degrees and less experience can do the same job as you, I fail to see the value that you are bringing.
  #336  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:00 PM
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If you have seniority, do you have more responsibilities than the person making less than you?

If you don't and have the exact same responsibilities as the person with less pay, what sort of value are you actually bringing?

If the person with less degrees and less experience can do the same job as you, I fail to see the value that you are bringing.
You do the job better, faster, with more accuracy. The new person has to spend time learning, usually from the person with seniority.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:02 PM
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You do the job better, faster, with more accuracy. The new person has to spend time learning, usually from the person with seniority.
Then why aren't you being promoted to supervisor, if you are the teacher of the less experienced?

But what you are describing is higher performance, which should get you a bit more on the payband. Not because your years of experience or degrees.

Last edited by Omar Little; 05-20-2019 at 07:03 PM.
  #338  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:10 PM
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TBH it seems like a dumb idea, if you want to solve problems like this, not to mention get other related ones like racial pay issues in the same net, it'd be a far more prudent move to strengthen organized labor and collective bargaining than try and do some roundabout pay data analysis. Not to mention the gig economy is effectively immune to this and is a much bigger issue for people (even women) in poverty.
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but given that the Republicans have spent the last thirty-plus years cutting the legs out from under organized labor and making "collective bargaining" almost as dirty a word as "liberal," I don't see the appeal in trying to push a boulder up that hill. It's going to take more than one presidential administration to undo that damage.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:02 PM
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You can also justify paying more for long tenure because it costs money to replace employees. If one company is hiring a new Widget Agent every year, and another company is keeping the same Widget Agent for 45 years before he retires, and they're both paying their Widget Agent the same salary, then the second company will have higher profits even if the brand-new employees do just as good a job, because they don't have to pay for job-posting ads, and spend time going through resumes and interviewing candidates and so on.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:09 PM
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An informative 538 piece.

Not sure what I think yet.
  #341  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:25 PM
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Then why aren't you being promoted to supervisor, if you are the teacher of the less experienced?

But what you are describing is higher performance, which should get you a bit more on the payband. Not because your years of experience or degrees.
Because they have only so many slots for management. Senior staff are normally asked to train new employees, happened nearly every place I have worked.

How do you judge "higher performance"?
  #342  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:59 AM
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Leave behind for a second if this is good or practical policy, and there is lots to unpack there with the "work of equal value" bit and much more, is it (inclusive of her promise to "use the president’s executive authority to force companies competing for federal contracts worth $500,000 or more to obtain the certification" assuming that Congress does not pass it) a likely effective campaign issue, in either the general or the primaries?

I don't think it will gain her significantly more woman voter support and across the board gets potential supporters to think of her a less strong general election candidate. It's her ploy for attention, to show that Warren isn't the only one with ideas ... but Warren's ideas at least are of the economic populist sort that have potential to resonate in a general election broadly.

I read it as a sign of how badly her campaign has failed to take off.
  #343  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:07 PM
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No one wants to discuss her proposal to fine companies that pay men more than women?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KCN1SQ0YH?il=0
This proposal reminds me of the Google gender discrimination case a couple years ago where

Quote:
"Google has discriminated and continues to discriminate against its female employees by systemically paying them lower compensation than Google pays male employees performing substantially similar work, under similar working conditions," the complaint reads.
Google refused to give the government the information it needed to make a fair determination if there was a bias. Google would stall or give information that was not on point.

Harris may be trying to solve this problem by making Google's actions illegal. I can imagine this happening in lots of other companies, but I don't know how easy it would be to prove.
  #344  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:38 PM
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...

Google refused to give the government the information it needed to make a fair determination if there was a bias. Google would stall or give information that was not on point.
...
That wasnt in the article and Google cant refuse a summons.

Of all places, Google isnt the problem. But even so, those cases wouldnt be solved by Harris law.
  #345  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:39 AM
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In my understanding, the data suggests that the entirety of the pay gap is probably not due to gender bias, but parts of it still may be. Further, the gap may be influenced by things that are not directly "gender bias", but are still related concepts -- for example, if relatively few women choose a certain lucrative education or industry path because they discover that this path generally treats women poorly, then this could negatively affect their salaries, even if it's not directly due to bias by their employer.
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I concur. Most of the gender gap isnt due to gender bias, but as long as it is "same pay for same job with same qualifications' I am good with that. I mean, we had a woman complaining she was getting paid less than me for example (she was half kidding, she didnt file a real complaint) until I pointed out I had 10 years a a higher degree than her.
My current client is French; they are required by a recent law to prepare and publish that kind of report, splitting the data several different ways. The internal email publishing the report indicated (paraphrasing from memory) that "while there are several axes where our situation is good, two provided unexpectedly bad results" and talked about further work being planned in order to analyze where the unexpected differences came from and if anything can-and-should be done about them. One of the things that surprised the people preparing the report is the extent to which certain jobs were gendered: for some jobs it was no surprise, for others it was. While it is possible that there is really nothing much to do, without the legal requirement they would just have continued working under the assumption that "all is good in the most perfect of employers" rather than have actual information.

Note that this is in a country where collective bargaining is the default. The unions are one of the groups that are interested in the results of such a study, as it points out possible points of improvement.
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Last edited by Nava; 05-22-2019 at 08:42 AM.
  #346  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:52 AM
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That wasnt in the article and Google cant refuse a summons.

Of all places, Google isnt the problem. But even so, those cases wouldnt be solved by Harris law.
Google Refused to Give Feds Sex Discrimination Data

Quote:
The Department of Labor sued Google in January when the company initially resisted to release data on its wages as requested by a standard audit that applies to all government contractors. The audit reviews employee information to measure corporate compliance with anti-discrimination laws.

The government originally asked Google to provide job history, salary history, and contact information for employees at Google’s headquarters in 2015. Over the next year, Google released portions of the requested data.

The data showed “systemic disparities against women pretty much across the entire workforce,” testified Janette Whipper, regional director of the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs, the watchdog arm of the Department of Labor.
From the Reuters article on Harris' proposal:

Quote:
U.S. Senator Kamala Harris, one of two dozen Democrats vying for the 2020 presidential nomination, on Monday proposed closing the gender pay gap by requiring companies to disclose pay data and secure an “equal pay certification” or be fined.
By shifting the burden of proof, the government wouldn't have to sue companies to provide salary data. Google provided the data in forms that was difficult to sort and find meaningful information. This proposal would require the companies to provide meaningful data without the government having to expend resources to get it.
  #347  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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Google provided the data in forms that was difficult to sort and find meaningful information.
Yet they were still able to confidently proclaim that "systemic disparities against women pretty much across the entire workforce"
  #348  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:31 AM
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That wasnt in the article and Google cant refuse a summons.
Or what? What happens if Google defies a summons? Will Google be put in jail?

Google can do any ddamned thing it wants and no one can or will stop them.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:44 AM
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Or what? What happens if Google defies a summons? Will Google be put in jail?

Google can do any ddamned thing it wants and no one can or will stop them.
Google carries a lot of weight but losing the ability to work on government contracts hurts even them. I doubt Google wanted to drop Huawei from its Android family.
  #350  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:28 AM
DrDeth is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 40,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
Google Refused to Give Feds Sex Discrimination Data







By shifting the burden of proof, the government wouldn't have to sue companies to provide salary data. Google provided the data in forms that was difficult to sort and find meaningful information. This proposal would require the companies to provide meaningful data without the government having to expend resources to get it.
That's not refusing that's requesting a summons to protect themselves. You dont hand over sensitive data without a court order.

Yeah, that means sensitive data is there for the asking. No thanks.
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