Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-01-2019, 06:20 AM
RickJay is offline
Charter Jays Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oakville, Canada
Posts: 41,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
I can't see Republicans voting for a Hindu.
They voted for an atheist.
__________________
Providing useless posts since 1999!
  #102  
Old 02-01-2019, 06:26 AM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 22,265
A pro-choice atheist who married not one, but two, Communists.
  #103  
Old 02-02-2019, 12:55 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,710
Russia's propaganda apparat is touting Gabbard's candidacy.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...abbard-n964261
  #104  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:09 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 24,142
Any friend of Assad's is a friend of Putin's.
  #105  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:38 PM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I do not. The Dems, by and large, are less warlike even now. And I fully expect that any effort to make an antiwar coalition with elements of the conservative movement would result in the GOP making hay over the Dems' "soft on" or "not being tough on" whoever the foreign enemy of the day was. Vietnam. El Salvador. Nicaragua. Freakin' Grenada. Panama. Gulf War 1. Iraq. Would've done Iran if Iraq hadn't turned into a disaster.
You said the Republicans had been more warlike until just the other day. Follow your own commentary.
  #106  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:42 PM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
Any friend of Assad's is a friend of Putin's.
It is always surreal when you encounter someone chanting propaganda slogans in modern times.
  #107  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:41 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 24,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
It is always surreal when you encounter someone chanting propaganda slogans in modern times.
Let me know when someone like that shows up.
  #108  
Old 02-05-2019, 11:41 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,710
David Duke endorses Tulsi Gabbard?
https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabba...ycott-1318365?
  #109  
Old 02-06-2019, 02:04 AM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,497
David Duke is a totally un-original crank who would be ranting on a street corner somewhere if he wasn't lucky enough to have a platform on the internet. His opinions are not and have never been relevant to anything.
  #110  
Old 02-06-2019, 03:22 AM
Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 13,569
NM. Too trivial.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-06-2019 at 03:22 AM.
  #111  
Old 02-06-2019, 07:17 AM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 22,265
Gabbard/Shultz 2020!
  #112  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:51 AM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,185
My read is that her going on record saying that both sides were to blame for the Trump-McConnell shutdown was the last straw as far as Democrats were concerned.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.
  #113  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:00 PM
Thing Fish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago (NL)
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
This is just the break the Gabbard campaign has been looking for!
  #114  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:26 PM
Dale Sams is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
Let me know when someone like that shows up.
That NBC link is right above you. Disgusting media smear campaigns.

But I'm sure someone will be along to gaslight and say something on the level of "Define is"
  #115  
Old 02-24-2019, 06:01 AM
DavidChou is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
2004 Democratic National Convention keynote address: Reception

"That is an amazing moment in history right there. It is surely an amazing moment. A keynoter like I have never heard. [...] I have seen the first black president there." - Chris Matthews

"This is why you go to conventions, to watch a speech like this." - David Brooks

"A star is born." - Mark Shields

"If he wrote that speech, then he should be president, because it's such a great speech. If he didn't, he should be president because he found such a great speechwriter." - Hendrik Hertzberg

"He is a star...For Barack, the sky's the limit." - Michael Madigan

"It was such a moving speech that I had tears in my eyes...It was electrifying. When I looked around the room, all across the people were so emotional, tears in their eyes. They're crying." - Emil Jones

"I thought that was one of the most electrifying moments that I can remember at any convention." - Hillary Clinton

"When Obama runs for the White House, he will run not as a candidate for blacks. He has the capacity to run as a candidate for everyone." - Artur Davis

If Tulsi Gabbard had a moment like this in 2016, I must have missed it.
I've never understood any of this...he seemed like just any other corporate speaker you meet at a mandatory company training session for sexual harassment or other H.R. Dep't. shindig...yeah, better than average but nothing unusual....

Then again, I don't get Trump's "charisma" either -- like talking to any white ethnic small businessman not even one generation removed from the blue-collar world....

I think folks like what they like first and then rationalize it by finding all these reasons after the fact -- which also explains why, therefore, those of different opinions often find the justifications so threadbare.
  #116  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:05 PM
Try2B Comprehensive's Avatar
Try2B Comprehensive is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,383
I haven't read this thread. I didn't know until today who Tulsi Gabbard even is.

I saw her 'town hall' on CNN. I'm sort of aggravated by CNN lately- all politics, not much news, fairly partisan, repetitive. But I haven't seen Gabbard there before, or anywhere else for that matter.

My initial impression is, "This is the answer to Hillary." Perfectly rational and well spoken, but also seemingly sincere and even touching. I thought her behavior itself was a form of leadership. Not bad for a TV appearance and pretty impressive.

I will have to see if she starts to seem like a schtick after I get to know her better. But so far: wow.
  #117  
Old 03-10-2019, 09:52 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 82,666
Yeah, she's certainly different from Clinton. For one thing, Clinton supports civil rights.
  #118  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:32 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
I haven't read this thread. I didn't know until today who Tulsi Gabbard even is.

I saw her 'town hall' on CNN. I'm sort of aggravated by CNN lately- all politics, not much news, fairly partisan, repetitive. But I haven't seen Gabbard there before, or anywhere else for that matter.

My initial impression is, "This is the answer to Hillary." Perfectly rational and well spoken, but also seemingly sincere and even touching. I thought her behavior itself was a form of leadership. Not bad for a TV appearance and pretty impressive.

I will have to see if she starts to seem like a schtick after I get to know her better. But so far: wow.
Yeah, she's different from Hillary, all right. Tulsi likes dictators.
  #119  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:55 PM
Try2B Comprehensive's Avatar
Try2B Comprehensive is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,383
Well, I don't know her. I saw her performance and did not think she would be such a person. I'd need cites, and anyway, what if she has evolved?
  #120  
Old 03-10-2019, 11:19 PM
Merneith is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 6,859
While you're waiting for an answer, perhaps this would be a good time to go back and read the damn thread.
  #121  
Old 03-10-2019, 11:29 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
Well, I don't know her. I saw her performance and did not think she would be such a person. I'd need cites, and anyway, what if she has evolved?
Go back to the beginning of this thread.
  #122  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:27 AM
foolsguinea is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 15,708
Tulsi "likes dictators" mainly insofar as she doesn't believe in invading countries to install new US-friendly governments. That's why she gets support from anti-war & anti-imperialist voters.
  #123  
Old 03-11-2019, 07:34 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 9,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by foolsguinea View Post
Tulsi "likes dictators" mainly insofar as she doesn't believe in invading countries to install new US-friendly governments. That's why she gets support from anti-war & anti-imperialist voters.
It's not necessarily clear what she likes or doesn't like, as her positions on US foreign intervention are somewhat ambiguous. On one hand she apparently opposes regime change, but she also said that the US should do whatever it can to intervene to destroy ISIS-like organizations. It's also not clear that she really understands the Middle East as a region, despite having served as a solider. She refers to the Middle East as theocracies when in reality, except for Iran, they're mostly secular nation-states. Not sure that's the kind of person I want in charge of US foreign policy, particularly given her jaundiced views on the Middle East and the Muslim world.
  #124  
Old 03-11-2019, 07:44 AM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,185
Hey, check out the high-profile endorsement she just got!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Gaetz
America should watch @TulsiGabbard at 7pm cst on @cnn. You won’t agree on everything, but Tulsi is very smart, a patriotic veteran and has meaningful contributions to make to America’s foreign policy. Democrats could (and probably will) do far worse.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.

Last edited by Steve MB; 03-11-2019 at 07:44 AM.
  #125  
Old 03-11-2019, 11:36 AM
Try2B Comprehensive's Avatar
Try2B Comprehensive is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,383
I Have started reading the thread. So far I am not seeing the source material for the claims that she is pro discrimination. That seems contradicted by what little I have found of what has come from her own mouth.

Pro India is a potential positive for the US. They are the largest democracy in the world, and, well, the details matter but it would be nice on a surface level to not constantly antagonize friendly nations for a while.

I was impressed that she could get up there in a lei and talk about Hinduism and still come across as so (soldier) confident, positive, and compelling. With the obsessive coverage any president will get even if they aren't an orange, pussy grabbing con man, seeing this kind of behavior in the WH would be a huge breath of fresh air.

I like it that Warren is such a white collar crime hawk and still have her as a possibility, but I wish she behaved more like Gabbard. Warren sometimes reminds me of an excited bird, which could cost her.

I haven't been this impressed with another candidate yet. I though she had poise in spades and exuded leadership. It is striking that she has scars on only half of her face- the way she uses it reminds me a little of the hypnotic power of Sarah Sanders' unfocused eye ( I like Sanders, except for being a human firehose of bs.) The effect is kind of, "Are you getting tired of watching this long speech? Well, I have a whole. nother. Face!"

Is she anti gay? That would be bad. She says she grew up that way because of her dad and changed her mind. Personally, my own dad was anti everything, and I did not turn out the same. Maybe Gabbard could be a good transitional leader as the country becomes more accepting.

Is she from a cult? I don't know. I kind of think Mormonism is a cult, yet that is down the list of my objections to Romney. So far anyway I don't have those objections to Gabbard. Unless she pulls of her mask and is actually a crazy person, I am going to stick with "no religious test for office."

Doesn't want to topple Assad? We toppled Hussein and look what a shit show that was. And who would know that better than a veteran? Maybe she is right.

Who cares what Gaetz says about anything?

I would like to see her debate Bernie. Also, Warren, Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, Biden, and probably others. I still think she put on a fantastic performance. OK, off to finish reading this thread. I am open to further objections to Gabbard, of course.
  #126  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:01 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
http://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tu...mocratic-party

In short, she seems to align with the hawkish right/Republicans when it comes to fighting terrorism and the Middle East in general, verging on open bigotry against Muslims, by my reading. She used the same sorts of criticism of the Iran nuclear deal (a truly amazing accomplishment of foreign policy, in my opinion) that the Republicans made, which were mostly based on a false understanding of the facts -- lending some legitimacy to Trump's incredibly stupid dismantling of that treaty, which makes it much easier for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons. Similarly, she used the same sorts of criticism against Obama on his rhetoric regarding terrorism, insisting like so many Republicans that he must use the phrase "radical Islam" when talking about terrorism. I strongly disagree with this because it's being used to tar and "other" Muslims as a whole, implying the entire religion is "radical" or "extreme" -- not only is this bigoted, in my opinion, but it runs counter to the best way to fight terrorism. In order to fight and defeat those terrorists around the world who happen to be Muslim, we'll need the cooperation and friendship of the vast majority of moderate and peaceful Muslims around the world. Such rhetoric provides no help to anyone except the extremists, who want all Muslims to see the US as anti-Islam.

She's fought against efforts to be more compassionate and welcoming to Muslim refugees (but she agreed with carving out exceptions for Christians). She's also praised brutal dictators like El Sisi in Egypt, just because they happened to reserve some of their brutality for extremists. She's been praised by the likes of Breitbart and Steve Bannon for her stance on terrorism and her singling out of Islam. She's repeatedly praised Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who, before riots that killed hundreds of Muslims, stated that Muslims needed to be taught a lesson. Altogether this leads me to suspect that she bears some personal ill will towards Muslims.

This doesn't mean I wouldn't support her over Trump -- I certainly would... every Democrat, even ones like Gabbard that I have major concerns about, is nigh-infinitely better than Trump. I agree with her on many issues -- especially her economic policies, broadly speaking. But based on the above concerns, I doubt I'll support her over some of the other Democrats running, who don't appear to have these close ties to bigoted policies and politicians.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 03-11-2019 at 12:02 PM.
  #127  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:46 PM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
“In short, she seems to align with the hawkish right/Republicans when it comes to fighting terrorism and the Middle East in general”

Yeah that’s a hell of a mischaracterization. Obama and Clinton were much more closely aligned with hawkish Republicans when it came to fighting terrorism and the Middle East in general. They supported regime change in Libya along with McCain et al. They supported and administered a ramp up in Afghanistan like McCain et al. They supported the jihadist rebels in Syria like McCain et al. They launched a war in Yemen along with McCain et al.

Gabbard has problems, but one of them is not that she is aligned with hawks on Middle East strategy. I also find it rich that Clinton supporters are now worried about problems in the Middle East. We will see who the Gabbard bashers end up supporting. I bet it won’t be a pure peacenik, but rather a hawk like Clinton and Obama.

You can tell when someone is more worried about how the terror war is marketed than how it is implemented. Obama was much worse on expanding the terror war than Gabbard would ever be. He kept a kill list with American citizens on it, for goodness sake.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 03-11-2019 at 12:48 PM.
  #128  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:15 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,710
Quote:
So far I am not seeing the source material for the claims that she is pro discrimination.
It's there. Look for it. No point in repeating what's been said above.
  #129  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:26 PM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,185
The underlying issue is that the Democrats need someone who can lead an effective fight against Republican obstructionism (which will still be a problem even if the Democrats do well in the 2020 elections -- perhaps even more than ever, as the Republicans get desperate).

Her "both sides are to blame for the shutdown" idiocy demonstrates her to be someone who will come down with the heebie-jeebies and the collywobbles and the saffron spinosis and the bone spurs and Ghu knows what else when faced with that battle.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.

Last edited by Steve MB; 03-11-2019 at 01:27 PM.
  #130  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:25 AM
Try2B Comprehensive's Avatar
Try2B Comprehensive is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
http://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tu...mocratic-party

In short, she seems to align with the hawkish right/Republicans when it comes to fighting terrorism and the Middle East in general, verging on open bigotry against Muslims, by my reading. She used the same sorts of criticism of the Iran nuclear deal (a truly amazing accomplishment of foreign policy, in my opinion) that the Republicans made, which were mostly based on a false understanding of the facts -- lending some legitimacy to Trump's incredibly stupid dismantling of that treaty, which makes it much easier for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons. Similarly, she used the same sorts of criticism against Obama on his rhetoric regarding terrorism, insisting like so many Republicans that he must use the phrase "radical Islam" when talking about terrorism. I strongly disagree with this because it's being used to tar and "other" Muslims as a whole, implying the entire religion is "radical" or "extreme" -- not only is this bigoted, in my opinion, but it runs counter to the best way to fight terrorism. In order to fight and defeat those terrorists around the world who happen to be Muslim, we'll need the cooperation and friendship of the vast majority of moderate and peaceful Muslims around the world. Such rhetoric provides no help to anyone except the extremists, who want all Muslims to see the US as anti-Islam.
Well, at least you can't credibly accuse her of hating Jewish people. From your own article:
Quote:
When Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu delivered his unprecedented speech to Congress in March 2015 in an attempt to torpedo the deal, Gabbard didn’t join the significant number of Democrats who boycotted the speech. She attended it.

In light of this, the fact that Gabbard received a “Champion of Freedom” award at the Jewish Values Gala — an awards ceremony held by the World Values Network, which was founded by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, an enthusiastic Trump supporter — in between campaigning for Sanders is less puzzling.

On Rabbi Shmuley’s Facebook page, Gabbard’s award win is recounted in the same post that celebrates making then–Secretary of State John Kerry renounce his statements that Israeli policies contribute to terrorism against Israel. A photo from the event shows Gabbard posing with Rabbi Shmuley and Miriam Adelson, the wife of Sheldon Adelson (Adelson himself is a major Trump supporter, and happens to believe Palestinians are “a made-up people”). As her Democratic primary opponent pointed out, Gabbard has introduced Adelson-backed legislation to Congress before.
(ICUMI: Trump today claimed that the Democratic Party is anti-Semetic.)
It is problematic in its own way. But she is definitely standing up for both Israel and Adelson, not what you'd expect from a Democrat who ostensibly rejects Jewish people. If that's the line for 2020, Gabbard is bullet proof to it. Also, her position on terrorists is defensible. They really are Islamic Extremists (ISIS et al anyway). Obama preferred more delicacy on that point, but Gabbard literally deployed to the war.

I don't think the article scores a point on her military policy. Instead of invading countries to topple their leaders like we did in Iraq, killing and maiming our soldiers while spending trillions for the privilege, she would restrain herself to blowing up terrorists with drones. Kind of like Obama. It's bad, it can kill civilians, but it kills only a small % of civilians compared to the 100s of thousands killed and the millions displaced by the invasion technique. Can/will it be abused? Hah! I hope not, but probably, no matter who wins. An "I love everyone" religious philosopher might be our least bad choice on this front.

Gabbard focuses on the costs to us rather than the cost to foreigners. Gasp! Maybe she just didn't express her every last thought, or maybe is so dastardly she considers the effect of policy on Americans before other groups.

Still, I see the thrust here- she doesn't have the political pedigree some of the other candidates possess. Bernie Sanders has been the same thing for decades. Biden has warts (maybe he should make Warren his running mate if he is serious about reversing his support for the financial industry) but also a long, distinguished history as a Democrat. Same with many others, while Gabbard emerges from a Hawaiian Hindu world with strong connections to far-right figures and came around to the Dem cause relatively later in life- it was her 20s, and she's what, still in her 30s?

She remains anti-gay marriage but now thinks the government should not be "theocratic" like Middle Eastern regimes in enforcing religious morality. Ok, that sure sounds like the correct government policy, no? Me, I can relate, I oppose abortion (though not for religious reasons) but don't think the government should ban it. What do you want?

I want to encourage everyone to watch some Gabbard video. That town hall was a good performance, um, I only just noticed her, I am only now waking up to the 2020 campaign. It's pragmatic to cut me some slack, but I like her. Take a look at what she can do in person. She met with Assad. And Trump. And GOP think-tankers. And listened to Netanyahu's address to Congress. She reaches out, she champions progressive D positions, and I can't think of who has more raw charisma. She might repair America's image world-wide, while promoting pro-America policies at home.

I do hope she makes it to the debate round.
  #131  
Old 03-12-2019, 04:10 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
Well, at least you can't credibly accuse her of hating Jewish people. From your own article:



(ICUMI: Trump today claimed that the Democratic Party is anti-Semetic.)

It is problematic in its own way. But she is definitely standing up for both Israel and Adelson, not what you'd expect from a Democrat who ostensibly rejects Jewish people. If that's the line for 2020, Gabbard is bullet proof to it. Also, her position on terrorists is defensible. They really are Islamic Extremists (ISIS et al anyway). Obama preferred more delicacy on that point, but Gabbard literally deployed to the war.



I don't think the article scores a point on her military policy. Instead of invading countries to topple their leaders like we did in Iraq, killing and maiming our soldiers while spending trillions for the privilege, she would restrain herself to blowing up terrorists with drones. Kind of like Obama. It's bad, it can kill civilians, but it kills only a small % of civilians compared to the 100s of thousands killed and the millions displaced by the invasion technique. Can/will it be abused? Hah! I hope not, but probably, no matter who wins. An "I love everyone" religious philosopher might be our least bad choice on this front.



Gabbard focuses on the costs to us rather than the cost to foreigners. Gasp! Maybe she just didn't express her every last thought, or maybe is so dastardly she considers the effect of policy on Americans before other groups.



Still, I see the thrust here- she doesn't have the political pedigree some of the other candidates possess. Bernie Sanders has been the same thing for decades. Biden has warts (maybe he should make Warren his running mate if he is serious about reversing his support for the financial industry) but also a long, distinguished history as a Democrat. Same with many others, while Gabbard emerges from a Hawaiian Hindu world with strong connections to far-right figures and came around to the Dem cause relatively later in life- it was her 20s, and she's what, still in her 30s?



She remains anti-gay marriage but now thinks the government should not be "theocratic" like Middle Eastern regimes in enforcing religious morality. Ok, that sure sounds like the correct government policy, no? Me, I can relate, I oppose abortion (though not for religious reasons) but don't think the government should ban it. What do you want?



I want to encourage everyone to watch some Gabbard video. That town hall was a good performance, um, I only just noticed her, I am only now waking up to the 2020 campaign. It's pragmatic to cut me some slack, but I like her. Take a look at what she can do in person. She met with Assad. And Trump. And GOP think-tankers. And listened to Netanyahu's address to Congress. She reaches out, she champions progressive D positions, and I can't think of who has more raw charisma. She might repair America's image world-wide, while promoting pro-America policies at home.



I do hope she makes it to the debate round.
This doesn't appear to address any of the criticism I have for her, but whatever.
__________________
My new novel Spindown
  #132  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Covfefe's Avatar
Covfefe is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
She met with Assad. And Trump. And GOP think-tankers.
Has she been contributing to a Koch Bros. related think tank? I haven't been able to verify that.

There are many more from the seamy right wing than Gaetz, not to mention Russia, who are intrigued by Gabbard. I think she looks pretty good on the surface as well. I have serious reservations about how she might allow herself to be compromised and if there are limits of the sources of manipulation she would tolerate.
  #133  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:23 PM
Ulf the Unwashed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,318
Regarding the idea that Gabbard doesn't really "like dictators," just doesn't believe in invading other countries, Mother Jones would disagree:

"Shortly after her visit, Gabbard defended Assad against evidence that he was behind a chemical weapons attack on his own people in the spring of 2017."

"In December 2013, Gabbard opposed a House resolution calling on Modi to protect 'the rights and freedoms of religions minorities.'”

From https://www.motherjones.com/politics...-nationalists/. There are a number of quotes from other sources in this article which also strongly suggest that Gabbard does indeed have a soft spot for at least some dictators.

On another note, I find the claim that Gabbard is charismatic to be...intriguing. I've seen her in a couple of interviews and she seemed very uncharismatic--rather boring as a matter of fact, not the sort of candidate whose personality would seem to loom large. I think she's quite attractive, but of course that's not the same thing.

I'm definitely with iiandyiiii (and others) --this seems like a deeply flawed candidate.

Last edited by Ulf the Unwashed; 03-13-2019 at 07:25 PM.
  #134  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:39 PM
Johanna's Avatar
Johanna is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Altered States of America
Posts: 13,278
Netanyahu ≠ Judaism.
Hinduvta ≠ India.

She obviously has an authoritarian streak. I don't trust her one bit.
  #135  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:11 AM
adaher is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 28,871
Gabbard is... weird. But I'm a sucker for mavericks so I'm intrigued too. She also has pretty great charisma and a super resume. But I also acknowledge that her downsides are pretty huge. She could be a very successful President or an utter disaster.
  #136  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:27 AM
Try2B Comprehensive's Avatar
Try2B Comprehensive is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
This doesn't appear to address any of the criticism I have for her, but whatever.
Well, on the question of Islamic extremists, it seems clear that she can tell the difference between the multitudes of peaceful Muslims and the extreme fringe. I can't say what is behind her wanting to identify the enemy specifically as Islamic extremists, the way GOPers wanted to under Obama. The question always seemed like a bit of mania to me- they really Are Islamic extremists, yeah I can see not wanting to declare war on Islam but really, both sides of the debate are right and other things are far more important.

Now that some time has gone by, it is hard to see her standing up to the more accomplished Democrats. Warren, Harris, Bernie, Biden all have a lot to point to in their bids for President. Successful ex governor Hickenlooper is more prepared to be prez, prob others. Gabbard is more off to a good start, career-wise, but probably not ready yet.
  #137  
Old 03-27-2019, 06:11 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,104
[minor note]
At the 1:23 mark in this video I see Gabbard with 5% in the January 15-16 Harris poll. I became concerned: With a showing like that, why wasn't she treated as a front-runner? She's omitted altogether from most summaries.

I did some research. She received 5 out of 515 votes in that poll for 1%. Some transcriber substituted the votes (5) for the percent (1).

To quote Roseanne Roseannadanna: "Never mind."
  #138  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:08 AM
CaptMurdock's Avatar
CaptMurdock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Evildrome Boozerama
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
[minor note]
At the 1:23 mark in this video I see Gabbard with 5% in the January 15-16 Harris poll. I became concerned: With a showing like that, why wasn't she treated as a front-runner? She's omitted altogether from most summaries.

I did some research. She received 5 out of 515 votes in that poll for 1%. Some transcriber substituted the votes (5) for the percent (1).

To quote Roseanne Roseannadanna: "Never mind."
[Nitpick]
You mean Emily Litella.
[/Nitpick]
__________________
____________________________
Coin-operated self-destruct...not one of my better ideas.
-- Planckton (Spongebob Squarepants)
  #139  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:54 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMurdock View Post
[Nitpick]
You mean Emily Litella.
[/Nitpick]
Ooops! In an effort to make amends, here's a little-known(?) clip from Emily or Roseanne or whatever-her-name-was. She had pretty legs and knew how to dance.
  #140  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:13 PM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
Regarding the idea that Gabbard doesn't really "like dictators," just doesn't believe in invading other countries, Mother Jones would disagree:

"Shortly after her visit, Gabbard defended Assad against evidence that he was behind a chemical weapons attack on his own people in the spring of 2017."

"In December 2013, Gabbard opposed a House resolution calling on Modi to protect 'the rights and freedoms of religions minorities.'”

From https://www.motherjones.com/politics...-nationalists/. There are a number of quotes from other sources in this article which also strongly suggest that Gabbard does indeed have a soft spot for at least some dictators.

On another note, I find the claim that Gabbard is charismatic to be...intriguing. I've seen her in a couple of interviews and she seemed very uncharismatic--rather boring as a matter of fact, not the sort of candidate whose personality would seem to loom large. I think she's quite attractive, but of course that's not the same thing.

I'm definitely with iiandyiiii (and others) --this seems like a deeply flawed candidate.
She doesn’t like dictators so much as she appears to like stability and life. Those in opposition to her seem to prefer exerting power over lands ruled by dictators and bending them to meet western values.
  #141  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:37 PM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 25,759
But it isn't one or another. One can think that Assad is a war criminal without advocating an invasion to remove him from power. But Gabbard seems to embrace the retarded thinking of, "I don't want to invade Syria, therefore Assad isn't a war criminal."
  #142  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:43 PM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
But it isn't one or another. One can think that Assad is a war criminal without advocating an invasion to remove him from power. But Gabbard seems to embrace the retarded thinking of, "I don't want to invade Syria, therefore Assad isn't a war criminal."
I honestly haven’t heard her opinion on whether he is a war criminal. She has stated that both sides used gas in an interview (Rogan?). Safe to say she acknowledges Assad used gas.
  #143  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:07 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
She doesn’t like dictators so much as she appears to like stability and life. Those in opposition to her seem to prefer exerting power over lands ruled by dictators and bending them to meet western values.
Surprised you're such a fan of hers considering her hawkish stance on Iran.
  #144  
Old 03-27-2019, 06:21 PM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 25,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
I honestly haven’t heard her opinion on whether he is a war criminal. She has stated that both sides used gas in an interview (Rogan?). Safe to say she acknowledges Assad used gas.
The only think I’m aware of her saying about Assad using gas is that she was “skeptical” and that it was “possible.”

When asked if she thought Assad is a war criminal, she dismissed the idea with a call for more investigations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...nal/index.html
  #145  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:35 AM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Surprised you're such a fan of hers considering her hawkish stance on Iran.
She doesn’t have a hawkish stance on Iran. You realize many have been calling for regime change and war on Iran for decades? That is hawkish.

https://www.tulsigabbard.org/tulsi-gabbard-on-iran
  #146  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:36 AM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
The only think I’m aware of her saying about Assad using gas is that she was “skeptical” and that it was “possible.”

When asked if she thought Assad is a war criminal, she dismissed the idea with a call for more investigations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...nal/index.html
Has the evidence been collected?
  #147  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:45 AM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Why does the US president need to label every bad guy a war criminal? I would think you wouldn’t have a problem if she didn’t call Cheney a war criminal. Henry Kissinger. Etc.
  #148  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:47 AM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,814
Those that want to label Assad a war criminal do so in order to justify our disastrous intervention there. Pure hawk stance.
  #149  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:51 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 33,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
She doesn’t have a hawkish stance on Iran. You realize many have been calling for regime change and war on Iran for decades? That is hawkish.



https://www.tulsigabbard.org/tulsi-gabbard-on-iran
That's in direct conflict to things she's said in the past about Iran. https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/yes-t...-deal-war-hawk
__________________
My new novel Spindown
  #150  
Old 03-28-2019, 05:53 AM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 25,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Has the evidence been collected?
Are you not familiar with major world events over the last few years? If not, don’t you think candidates for elected office should be, especially when they have met personally with Assad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Those that want to label Assad a war criminal do so in order to justify our disastrous intervention there. Pure hawk stance.
Not so. It’s perfectly rational to call Assad what he is and say that we don’t have business invading. Except that crackpots like Gabbard want to pretend that’s impossible.

See for example Barbara Lee: ““President Trump’s decision to launch military strikes against the Syrian regime – without congressional input or authorization – shows a contempt for the U.S Constitution and is without legal justification. The use of chemical weapons by the Syrian Government against innocent civilians is heinous. I fully support all international accountability mechanisms to prosecute these war crimes and to negotiate a political solution to the war in Syria. But as we’ve seen over the last 16 years, we cannot bomb our way to peace.”

Last edited by Ravenman; 03-28-2019 at 05:58 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017