View Poll Results: Would you be sacrifice your own life for a guaranteed Trump loss?
Yes 8 7.14%
No 104 92.86%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:31 AM
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Would you be sacrifice your own life for a guaranteed Trump loss?


Inspired by this thread.

I was a bit appalled by the apparent willingness of people to play with millions of people's lives to get Trump out. This was a devils's bargain, since we have no ability to induce a major recession ourselves, it's down to our personal wish. So, let's make it a bit more personal.

My original thought was would you kill yourself, but that's a bit morbid, so lets say a wizard just zaps you into oblivion so you don't have to do the deed yourself and boom, Trump loses in 2020, guaranteed.

Certainly a massive recession would result in millions of lost jobs and probably several suicides. Some people will go destitute, becoming homeless, drug use to kill the pain, and other suffering and death. Not to mention the financial discomfort of probably most of the country.

It seems to me that your measly life is nothing compared to that and as an added bonus, the elimination of your carbon footprint will result in several tons of emissions removed per year.
  #2  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:43 AM
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I hesitate because I think he's going to lose anyway (I know, I'm an optimist) However, if the scenario is he wins and I live or he loses and I die, I would certainly give the matter a lot of thought. Many in our armed services have been willing to give their lives to protect our country, and I would hope I would do the same. Obviously, it's a big decision, so I'll sleep on it for a couple of days before I sign.
  #3  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Inspired by

I was a bit appalled by the apparent willingness of people to play with millions of people's lives to get Trump out.
You got the responses you did because your question was goofy. You can't magically guarantee a recession or a good economy, you were basically just asking "do you like Trump y/n". We know what a Trump presidency leads to, we are living it, we know we don't want it, your magical alternatives are not real.

Last edited by DigitalC; 04-09-2019 at 09:57 AM.
  #4  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:58 AM
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Guaranteeing that disgrace former president Trump loses the election by itself doesn't guarantee a significantly better outcome all around. It's too much of a monkey's paw to give up my life over.
  #5  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:02 AM
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Absolutely not. I despise that Trump is president and what he's doing to our country, but my life is much more than who is in the White House. I've got kids, parents and a wife who all need me around.
  #6  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:06 AM
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Yes.
  #7  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
You got the responses you did because your question was goofy. You can't magically guarantee a recession or a good economy, you were basically just asking "do you like Trump y/n". We know what a Trump presidency leads to, we are living it, we know we don't want it, your magical alternatives are not real.
FWIW, I didn't come up with the other poll. I'm just trying to remove the impersonal factor. I also thought it should explicitly state guaranteed Trump loss, so we know for a fact that the negatives of the Trump presidency would be eliminated.
  #8  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:17 AM
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Isn't that the classic, "curing the disease by killing the patient"? Once I'm dead, I won't care what happens on this planet, believe me.
  #9  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:18 AM
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You got the responses you did because your question was goofy.
I started that poll, not him.
  #10  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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It would have to be for an absolute good. If you could guarantee me a Democratic house and senate, and single-payor healthcare, and massive climate change legislation including basic research funding for alternative fuels, then I might be willing to go there.

Last edited by TruCelt; 04-09-2019 at 10:30 AM.
  #11  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:31 AM
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You got the responses you did because your question was goofy.
Goofy? That one was transparently contrived and clumsy. This one is just plain puerile and fatuous.

Last edited by guizot; 04-09-2019 at 10:32 AM.
  #12  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:35 AM
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Me: All you have to do is take these pills, and then put this plastic bag over your head and cinch it really tightly around your neck...

You: And you're sure this will make Trump lose?

Me: Huh? Oh. Yeah, guaranteed! You're like, so brave!
  #13  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:57 AM
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Just how will the wizard bring about Trump's loss? Is he magically rigging the ballots, or is he magically educating millions of Americans? Trump himself is in many ways a symptom, not the problem itself: Even after he leaves office, the people who voted for him, and their reasons for doing so, will remain.
  #14  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Inspired by this thread.

I was a bit appalled by the apparent willingness of people to play with millions of people's lives to get Trump out. This was a devils's bargain, since we have no ability to induce a major recession ourselves, it's down to our personal wish. So, let's make it a bit more personal.

My original thought was would you kill yourself, but that's a bit morbid, so lets say a wizard just zaps you into oblivion so you don't have to do the deed yourself and boom, Trump loses in 2020, guaranteed.

Certainly a massive recession would result in millions of lost jobs and probably several suicides. Some people will go destitute, becoming homeless, drug use to kill the pain, and other suffering and death. Not to mention the financial discomfort of probably most of the country.

It seems to me that your measly life is nothing compared to that and as an added bonus, the elimination of your carbon footprint will result in several tons of emissions removed per year.
Whatever. As I've said before, call me a single-issue voter, but it's all about global warming.

Not all of the Dem candidates recognize this. Not all of those who recognize this, are willing to admit that the filibuster needs to go in order for us to have a chance to act in time. And of course there's no guarantee that the Dems will win the Senate, which would make the filibuster moot. So the manner of our win matters.

Would I sacrifice my life for an intelligent, comprehensive, WWII-footing-level program to get our country to zero carbon emissions as quickly as possible, where we'd be willing and eager to share any and all of our tech breakthroughs with the rest of the world for free?

That would be something I'd have to talk over with my family, of course: I'm not free to make such decisions on my own.

But if such a trade were possible, I'd be willing to say goodbye to my wife and son to maximize the chance that my son would spend his life on a reasonably hospitable planet, even if he lives to see the 22nd century.

But I would not do that merely for a Trump loss. That guarantees far too little.
  #15  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:26 AM
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The question isn't as binary as the OP hopes. Here's the real binary choice:

1) If you sacrifice your life Trump is guaranteed to lose.

2) If you choose to live, Trump is guaranteed to win.
  #16  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:34 AM
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Unfortunately you have come to a corner of the internet where unsatisfied individuals come to share their revenge fantasies and savior complexes, so your poll is likely to be skewed.
  #17  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:37 AM
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Unfortunately you have come to a corner of the internet where unsatisfied individuals come to share their revenge fantasies and savior complexes, so your poll is likely to be skewed.
I'm quite satisfied, thank you very much. But I do love my country, and would therefore be willing to sacrifice a lot to help it get over the current infestation in the White House.
  #18  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:38 AM
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I was a bit appalled by the apparent willingness of people to play with millions of people's lives to get Trump out.
And yet, Trump is working to make millions of Americans' lives worse. Are you not appalled by that?
  #19  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:00 PM
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Who wins? Not just that Trump loses.

I have read "The Monkey's Paw". I don't trust wizards. How do I know the election won't result in somebody worse?

And yes, there can be someone worse. What if he loses to Roy Moore?

Regards,
Shodan
  #20  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Unfortunately you have come to a corner of the internet where unsatisfied individuals come to share their revenge fantasies and savior complexes, so your poll is likely to be skewed.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm living the life I've always longed for. I've got no interest in revenge on anyone, though I'd like to see rich and poor alike receive the same justice. And I've long since learned that I can't save anyone but myself, and if I'm lucky, some of my loved ones.

But ever since adopting the Firebug a decade ago, I've been thinking a lot about the world he will live in. I'll be checking out somewhere around mid-century, but he's >50 years younger than me (crazy, huh? ), so in a hospitable world, he'll probably be around for a half-century after I pass on. So I think about that half-century that he may see that I surely won't. It matters to me that our world continue to be a pleasant place to live in during that half-century that I will not see.
  #21  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:10 PM
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Unfortunately you have come to a corner of the internet where unsatisfied individuals come to share their revenge fantasies and savior complexes, so your poll is likely to be skewed.
Well put.
  #22  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:14 PM
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Oh...this is just too easy a choice. It plays into the martyrdom so many can easily imagine themselves bravely and nobly facing. Let's make it difficult. Would you slice the throat of the person you love the most in the world, while looking into their eyes and watching them die, to guarantee a Trump loss? Spouse, child, parent...doesn't matter who the loved one is, just that you love them the most.

Last edited by Scumpup; 04-09-2019 at 12:14 PM.
  #23  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who wins? Not just that Trump loses.

I have read "The Monkey's Paw". I don't trust wizards. How do I know the election won't result in somebody worse?

And yes, there can be someone worse. What if he loses to Roy Moore?

Regards,
Shodan
Thank you. I was searching in vain for someone who might be worse than Trump. Roy Moore would probably be worse. He's more of a true believer than Trump, and more competent.
  #24  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:16 PM
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Related comedy bit I saw:

Question: If you had to spend the rest of your life on a deserted island and could bring only one thing, what would it be?

Voted the best answer: I'd take one for the team and bring Trump.
  #25  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:54 PM
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The question isn't as binary as the OP hopes. Here's the real binary choice:

1) If you sacrifice your life Trump is guaranteed to lose.

2) If you choose to live, Trump is guaranteed to win.
I didn't really mean it to be binary.

In fact, I'd be willing to sweeten the pot and anybody on the planet of your choice (including people not currently running) would be president. It's too late to have that be a poll choice though.

Last edited by Ashtura; 04-09-2019 at 12:55 PM.
  #26  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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Thank you. I was searching in vain for someone who might be worse than Trump. Roy Moore would probably be worse. He's more of a true believer than Trump, and more competent.
Seriously? It's that hard?

Not David Duke, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, the BTK Killer?
  #27  
Old 04-09-2019, 01:47 PM
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Seriously? It's that hard?

Not David Duke, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, the BTK Killer?
The BTK Killer has some interesting and nuanced views on monetary policy.
  #28  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:40 PM
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I didn't really mean it to be binary.

In fact, I'd be willing to sweeten the pot and anybody on the planet of your choice (including people not currently running) would be president. It's too late to have that be a poll choice though.
Can you guarantee at least a 4 year term? No backsies, and no weird fiddling with strict interpretation of the rules?

Then I accept and choose myself as president. HA! Trump's out and I've got at least 4 years to live. In your face Monkey paw boy!
  #29  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:42 PM
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The BTK Killer has some interesting and nuanced views on monetary policy.
Trump's policy seems to be "You give money to me; I don't give money to you".

Give money to say, contractors, charities, and Puerto Rico.
  #30  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:45 PM
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I've said that the left on this board has gone off the deep end before. I was wrong. Now they have. Trump is so bad that some would personally die to keep him out of office.

You guys realize that this is getting into cult-type levels of insanity? No personal insults meant, but damn....you would die to keep him out of office. That is some hard core left wing shit right there.

No wonder some people say that the board is left leaning.
  #31  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:48 PM
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this board is left leaning like the Pope is catholic leaning
  #32  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:54 PM
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To me I believe God allowed Trump to be elected to point out all the hatred in our society which appears to be emboldened by his election. As such there is a reason for Trump to be president, it is basically 'hey humans you are not such a enlightened society that you thought and have work to do before advancing"

As such I don't see any purpose in your proposal. Trump is president for us to easier see hatred which I assume is a chance to heal it. Being able to get Trump out doesn't heal the hate.

Now getting rid of the hate, yes that would be a reason to die for.
  #33  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:59 PM
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To me I believe God allowed Trump to be elected to point out all the hatred in our society which appears to be emboldened by his election.
I’m just curious: I know people who voted for Hillary Clinton. I also know people who voted for Donald Trump. What, exactly, do you believe that God had to do with their respective decisions? Do you believe that there are people who were going to vote for Hillary, or weren’t going to vote at all, and, then, suddenly — what?
  #34  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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I've said that the left on this board has gone off the deep end before. I was wrong. Now they have. Trump is so bad that some would personally die to keep him out of office.

You guys realize that this is getting into cult-type levels of insanity? No personal insults meant, but damn....you would die to keep him out of office. That is some hard core left wing shit right there.

No wonder some people say that the board is left leaning.
To be fair, only 1 out of 44 votes so far is "yes." You can get 1/44 to vote for almost anything.
  #35  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:33 PM
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I’m just curious: I know people who voted for Hillary Clinton. I also know people who voted for Donald Trump. What, exactly, do you believe that God had to do with their respective decisions? Do you believe that there are people who were going to vote for Hillary, or weren’t going to vote at all, and, then, suddenly — what?
Mysterious ways man.
  #36  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:43 PM
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Mysterious ways man.
I wonder how far that’d go. Like, does kanicbird also think that Romney would’ve won if American voters had done as they’d seen fit — except, well, God made enough folks vote for Obama instead? Would the electorate have put Al Gore in office, but then God Himself swapped in Dubya, so sayeth kanicbird?

Like, always in mysterious ways, but always thwarting the will of Americans? Or only half the time? Maybe 80/20? What, I wonder, is the kanicbird worldview?
  #37  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:21 PM
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You should require, as a condition of the poll, that, once having lost, trump would leave office as all other defeated presidents have.
  #38  
Old 04-10-2019, 02:07 AM
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To me I believe God allowed Trump to be elected to point out all the hatred in our society which appears to be emboldened by his election. As such there is a reason for Trump to be president, . . .
I believe that Trump is just an abject and tawdry swindler who was able to con a large portion of the country because they so much wanted to believe his bullshit and use it justify their self-aggrievement. As such, there is a reason for Trump to be president, and that's because there's a sucker born every minute.
  #39  
Old 04-10-2019, 05:07 AM
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I can only speak for myself, but I'm living the life I've always longed for. I've got no interest in revenge on anyone, though I'd like to see rich and poor alike receive the same justice. And I've long since learned that I can't save anyone but myself, and if I'm lucky, some of my loved ones.

But ever since adopting the Firebug a decade ago, I've been thinking a lot about the world he will live in. I'll be checking out somewhere around mid-century, but he's >50 years younger than me (crazy, huh? ), so in a hospitable world, he'll probably be around for a half-century after I pass on. So I think about that half-century that he may see that I surely won't. It matters to me that our world continue to be a pleasant place to live in during that half-century that I will not see.

The stakes have never been that high in a presidential election. We are talking about marginal changes in policy.

If your interest is in your immediate family and friends, you can have a much bigger impact alive than any given election will ever have.

This is a unique condition of the evangelical American left which springs from its fanatical christian origins. Despite all the crazy anti-Obama rhetoric, conservatives would never have daydreamed such a hypothetical. They are much more likely to put ephemeral political results in the proper context of societal trends. These larger trends are what will determine the world our children inherit.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 04-10-2019 at 05:08 AM.
  #40  
Old 04-10-2019, 05:20 AM
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I'm quite satisfied, thank you very much. But I do love my country, and would therefore be willing to sacrifice a lot to help it get over the current infestation in the White House.
I’m sorry, but suicide and martyrdom do not signal satisfaction.

On one end is full satisfaction where no action takes place. On the other end is extreme action. Nobody is 100% satisfied or else they would not act in any way. But when someone employs such extreme means to achieve their ends, that tells me they are quite unsatisfied, despite societal pressures that may influence them to claim otherwise.

If someone is hungry and gets up to get a bite to eat from the cupboard, that demonstrates a low level of unsatisfaction. If they migrate to another country to satisfy their hunger, that demonstrates a high level of unsatisfaction.
  #41  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Inspired by this thread.

I was a bit appalled by the apparent willingness of people to play with millions of people's lives to get Trump out. This was a devils's bargain, since we have no ability to induce a major recession ourselves, it's down to our personal wish. So, let's make it a bit more personal.

My original thought was would you kill yourself, but that's a bit morbid, so lets say a wizard just zaps you into oblivion so you don't have to do the deed yourself and boom, Trump loses in 2020, guaranteed.

Certainly a massive recession would result in millions of lost jobs and probably several suicides. Some people will go destitute, becoming homeless, drug use to kill the pain, and other suffering and death. Not to mention the financial discomfort of probably most of the country.

It seems to me that your measly life is nothing compared to that and as an added bonus, the elimination of your carbon footprint will result in several tons of emissions removed per year.
I don't see how this thread is connecting to the one you referenced. I don't want a massive economic collapse, but that might be what's required to wake some people up to the fact that our country votes against its own collective interests every time it votes for a republican. And if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes and I guess I'd rather we get to that point late than never. But obviously I just wish we were better educated and had a better value system to begin with.
  #42  
Old 04-10-2019, 06:41 AM
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I've said that the left on this board has gone off the deep end before. I was wrong. Now they have. Trump is so bad that some would personally die to keep him out of office.

You guys realize that this is getting into cult-type levels of insanity? No personal insults meant, but damn....you would die to keep him out of office. That is some hard core left wing shit right there.

No wonder some people say that the board is left leaning.
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To be fair, only 1 out of 44 votes so far is "yes." You can get 1/44 to vote for almost anything.
It's now 4 out of 61. Wow. How very cult-like of us.

That's way below the Crazification Factor, dude. More Trump supporters than that have literally committed mass murder in support of their shared ideologies.

And it's a No from me, both because this too shall pass, and anyway Trump isn't the problem, he's the symptom. If anything, keeping him in place for another term will likely destroy the Republicans if it doesn't destroy the country first.

Last edited by Gyrate; 04-10-2019 at 06:42 AM.
  #43  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:40 AM
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I'd think I'd tell the wizard to find someone a little older than me who detests Donald just as much. Find someone who'd be dead in a few years anyway and offer the same bargain.
  #44  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:51 AM
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I think there's an interesting question in here but it's muddied by too many unknowns.

Let's say the wizard comes to you and says, "Hey, I've run a simulation where John Kerry won the 2004 election. The results are undeniably good -- 15 years after the election the world population is 257,392 people higher than in the reality where Bush won -- those are lives saved for whatever reason. World poverty has gone down, carbon emissions are down. I can snap my fingers and make that reality the current reality. Unfortunately, in that reality, you die in a car wreck in 2005. Shall I do it?"

Assuming (as per the OP) that you trust the wizard fully and he really does have the power to do what he says, what kind of monster wouldn't tell him to go ahead? And yet, it's too abstract for me to agree to. I don't know why.

Last edited by steronz; 04-10-2019 at 07:52 AM.
  #45  
Old 04-10-2019, 08:14 AM
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The stakes have never been that high in a presidential election. We are talking about marginal changes in policy.
First of all, of course, I was responding to your "unsatisfied individuals/revenge fantasies/savior complexes" bushwa.

Second, yes, the stakes ARE that high. If we are talking about marginal changes in policy, that's saying we've thrown in the towel, and will settle for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Quote:
If your interest is in your immediate family and friends, you can have a much bigger impact alive than any given election will ever have.
IF you had actually read my post, you would have noticed that I didn't stipulate that I'd be willing to give my life for a particular outcome of this election.
Quote:
This is a unique condition of the evangelical American left which springs from its fanatical christian origins. Despite all the crazy anti-Obama rhetoric, conservatives would never have daydreamed such a hypothetical. They are much more likely to put ephemeral political results in the proper context of societal trends. These larger trends are what will determine the world our children inherit.
You mean, like how Western civilization will come to an end if we continue to give asylum to some thousands of would-be immigrants escaping violence in Central America?
  #46  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:18 AM
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Die? People won't even take a day off work for chrissakes. They're perfectly happy bleating on the internet.

I'm not willing to die, but if he handed me a resignation letter first, I'd blow him.
  #47  
Old 04-10-2019, 09:33 AM
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Doing so would deny me the anticipated pleasure of reading his obituary, so no.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnwittingAmericans View Post

I'm not willing to die, but if he handed me a resignation letter first, I'd blow him.
Have you learned nothing from Trump? Take the letter and then back out of the promise to blow him.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:23 AM
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Yes -- as long as I live to see him lose, and the aftermath of GOP grief vomiting.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:52 AM
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A more complete answer now that I've had a chance to read the thread:

Look, it's a silly what-if game anyway, but between the two polls, better the death of a relatively unimportant individual than the widespread suffering of a major recession. Bummer it happens to be me.

But here's the thing: The tide of idiocy, bigotry and utter disregard for truth unleashed by Trump's candidacy and presidency is by far the most sickening thing I've seen in the U.S. in my lifetime. All policy matters aside, I never imagined I'd see my country so befouled. So, while I know it's borderline psychotic of me, my fondest dream is to see the day when Trump and all the scum who made him possible are left sputtering in their drool by an electoral repudiation of seismic proportions.

I would happily die Wednesday, November 4, 2020 to see that happen.
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