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  #51  
Old 04-22-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Biden happens to be the front-runner for the Dems 2020 nomination, so he's difficult to dismiss as just some crazy old nut. So when someone complains that Republicans nominated someone who had been accused of harassing / assaulting women, it's pretty straightforward to point out to them that their current front-runner has also been accused of harassing / assaulting women. Also, when someone points out that some Republicans have "voiced their surprise" over their party's nominee for calling Obama "a decent family man" / "decent person", it's pretty relevant to point out to them that their own front-runner recently called a Republican a "decent guy" and some Democrats reacted with: "some were against it, some thought it was unfortunate, some thought it was despicable". If you can't see how those comments were relevant to the posts they were responding to, I don't know how to resolve that issue for you.
The problem is that the two examples you are using are not nearly equivalent, so phrasing it this way is equivocating. McCain defended Obama as a decent man - the criticism of him was that he was Arabic. First, that was a stupid criticism from the crowd that McCain was responding to because being Arabic and being decent are not mutually exclusive. Second, Obama didn't do anything to call into question his decency so the charge was wholly unfounded.

Pence on the other hand, is a hateful homophobe. It's entirely understandable why people would object to Pence being characterized as decent.

For your example to work, the people underlying the comparison would have to be similar. But they are not, not even close. I disagree with many of Obama's policy positions, but the guy was pretty awesome as a person. Pence, I probably agree with many of his policy positions, but he's an asshat. Your attempt at equivocation only works if you raise it to a level so high as to be meaningless. Like, yeah, they're both humans. But that's not a useful comparison.
  #52  
Old 04-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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Yup, the Republicans have gone all in on white nationalism, a party that will work with a hostile government to undermine our democracy doesn't just learn it's lesson because they got caught. They will continue to suppress voting by people of color, they will continue to push their case in the Supreme Court on the census to radically undermine the fair distribution of House seats and they will continue to lock children in cages to keep their racist base mobilized. How anyone could think that they won't, or that it's not working is beyond me. Look at the week after the Mueller report, they are rallying around a career criminal who has been outed. The fact that his approval hovers at 42% of the general population and about 85% of the GOP is terrifying.
The only thing that kept them at check was fear of what would happen if they were exposed, and through their silence and insignificant "tut-tutting" the Republicans have shown them that there is no real repercussions to be had for what they say and do, so I predict that their numbers will increase.
  #53  
Old 04-22-2019, 12:04 PM
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But his reelection is guaranteed because the Republicans are willing to employ any methods they can to make sure it happens-- voter suppression by any means, intimidation, transportation restrictions, draconian i.d., rules, reducing the number of polling places available, resisting making election day a holiday so people don't have to take off from work to vote.
Ain't none of that stuff going to matter. What's going to sink the Democrats (if indeed they are sunk) is that they're more scattered than the Republicans.

While you have 249 Republicans goose-stepping in lock-step on their side, having relatively uniform positions on almost everything, you then have 285 Democrats going in multiple directions. You have AOC going on about the Green New Deal, you have Nancy Pelosi pissing on her campfire. You have multiple people trying to introduce motions to impeach Trump over time, and others saying it's pointless. You have Bernie Sanders preaching his own idiosyncratic economic ideas, and more mainstream Democrats following the party line. And that seems to only get worse at the sub-Federal levels of government.

If people aren't in one camp or the other yet, the Republicans look like the party that's more likely to get shit done. And if someone is not wholly opposed to the Republican party, which they aren't if they haven't picked a side yet, that Republican unity looks like a powerful thing. People think that basically if the Republicans are that unified, and the Democrats are not, then how are the Democrats going to act if they're in power?
  #54  
Old 04-22-2019, 12:18 PM
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The only thing that kept them at check was fear of what would happen if they were exposed, and through their silence and insignificant "tut-tutting" the Republicans have shown them that there is no real repercussions to be had for what they say and do, so I predict that their numbers will increase.
Exactly. People who work with autocracies to undermine their own democracies don't suddenly begin to value democracy over the course of a few months. Especially when there have been zero consequences for attacking our country.

I really feel that 2016 was a great awakening for white nationalism in America. Like other fanatical movements it has to burn itself off, usually when enough of the adherents finally die off. The white nationalists who read the Mueller Report last week and doubled down on defending Trump this week are not showing any signs of introspection, contrition, or an inclination to suddenly start buying in to representative government.
  #55  
Old 04-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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If people aren't in one camp or the other yet, the Republicans look like the party that's more likely to get shit done. And if someone is not wholly opposed to the Republican party, which they aren't if they haven't picked a side yet, that Republican unity looks like a powerful thing. People think that basically if the Republicans are that unified, and the Democrats are not, then how are the Democrats going to act if they're in power?
Since approximately 2010, the GOP's main purpose for existence has been to prevent shit from getting done. Unless we're counting rolling back previous Dem legislation as "getting shit done."
  #56  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:23 PM
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Are political rants posted in Elections now?
  #57  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:26 PM
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Try reading it again. You might have missed this bit in the opening paragraph:
You cannot make this baby live. I read the opening paragraph and the criticism was explicit and absolutely correct. Why shouldn't they criticize Pence for being a bigot?
  #58  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:26 PM
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Impeachment isn't just a Dem strategy, it's a major judicial deal with testimony, evidence, subpeonas, and most of all, the time it takes. It's not a black and white issue. The process is supposed to be informative to the populace, and make democracy better.

If it doesn't do that, it's probably because we didn't do it in time, and not that we did it.

It's a problem to run a government tiptoeing around the "projected mood" of an ignorant base. (Sorry, but that "I" word is very carefully and quite reasonably placed here)

Last edited by drad dog; 04-22-2019 at 01:29 PM.
  #59  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:39 PM
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You cannot make this baby live. I read the opening paragraph and the criticism was explicit and absolutely correct. Why shouldn't they criticize Pence for being a bigot?
I don't think you read it very well then. They weren't criticizing Vice President Pence. They were criticizing Biden for calling him a "decent guy".

When I have a few minutes, I'm going to start another thread to address the accusation of Vice President Pence as a "hateful homophobe". Perhaps you can participate in that one. I feel like further discussing it in this thread would be too big a distraction from the political rant that is supposed to be the subject of this thread.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-22-2019 at 01:39 PM.
  #60  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:44 PM
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And make sure they are 1) allowed to register, 2) allowed to vote, and that 3) their votes are counted. The Republicans at the state and federal levels are working overtime to place obstacles in the way of all of those.
Mrs. Plant's voter registration was pulled because she hasn't voted for some time.
  #61  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:45 PM
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https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...er-report.html

Here is a great article on why to impeach now.
  #62  
Old 04-22-2019, 01:53 PM
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Here's my prediction. 62,984,828 people voted for Trump in 2016. That number will be virtually the same, and in virtually the same geographic distribution, in 2020. Because perhaps no President in history running for reelection has done less to draw more voters toward him without also driving his supporters away.

If the Democrats want to win, they need to find roughly 50,000 more voters in Pennsylvania, 23,000 in Wisconsin, and 12,000 in Michigan, without losing roughly 45,000 voters in Minnesota, 27,000 in Nevada, and 3,000 in New Hampshire.

Anyone who thinks they can predict that right now is a damn fool.
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And make sure they are 1) allowed to register, 2) allowed to vote, and that 3) their votes are counted. The Republicans at the state and federal levels are working overtime to place obstacles in the way of all of those.
Here's something I can see happening:
If whoever is the Democratic nominee wins the popular vote, then, when the Electoral Votes are counted, there will be a challenge from, say, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, backed by, say, Senator Kamala Harris, for any of Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin that vote for Trump, claiming "irregularities" in that state's election and that the Democrat should receive that state's electoral votes; assuming the House is still in Democratic control after the 2020 election (since the electoral vote count takes place after the new Congress starts its term) while the Senate is still Republican-controlled, the House will vote for the Democrat, and the Senate for Trump, which means the decision is left up to "the executive of the state," and in all four of those states, the Democrats are in control. Any complaints that the election was "rigged" will be answered, "We would claim (the Democrat) was elected every bit as legitimately as Trump was, but that's not quite true; we have the additional legitimacy of a plurality of the people."
  #63  
Old 04-22-2019, 02:28 PM
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I quoted what I see as the relevant bit. Out of idle curiosity: How would you describe the left-wing reaction to Biden calling Vice President Pence a "decent guy"?
Once of the differences in Trump and Biden is that Biden is polite.
  #64  
Old 04-22-2019, 02:45 PM
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To be fair, neither do the Dems.
Just two things briefly.

1. The article you cited states that "actress and activist Cynthia Nixon" chastised Biden over the "decent guy" comment because he was "America's most anti-LGBT elected leader". I skimmed it fairly quickly but, I think, thoroughly, and I failed to see anything either in that single comment from Cynthia Nixon or anywhere else in that article that would support your contention that Dems as a group are against anyone "who talks about admiring an opponent's accomplishments and being respectful", let alone your preposterous comment that Dems are "throwing a tantrum" over it.

2. Bone did an excellent job in post #51 dissecting your disingenuous false equivalence on this.

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Once of the differences in Trump and Biden is that Biden is polite.
The New York Times once tried keeping a list of all the people Trump had insulted. I think it was up to about 500 before they apparently gave up, because the list of people he's insulted now amounts to "pretty much everyone". Now they're just tracking his lies, currently in the 6,000 range since inauguration, I believe.

Last edited by wolfpup; 04-22-2019 at 02:47 PM.
  #65  
Old 04-22-2019, 03:43 PM
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Just two things briefly.

1. The article you cited states that "actress and activist Cynthia Nixon" chastised Biden over the "decent guy" comment because he was "America's most anti-LGBT elected leader". I skimmed it fairly quickly but, I think, thoroughly, and I failed to see anything either in that single comment from Cynthia Nixon or anywhere else in that article that would support your contention that Dems as a group are against anyone "who talks about admiring an opponent's accomplishments and being respectful", let alone your preposterous comment that Dems are "throwing a tantrum" over it. ...
The article I cited also states that Biden's comment "frustrated some on the left". Did you read that part? It was in the opening paragraph. If you're doubting if there are other examples, aside from Cynthia Nixon, of Dems that took issue with Biden's comment, you could start with Czarcasm's post #44. He recognized that "some were against it, some thought it was unfortunate, some thought it was despicable". If there's still some doubt in your mind, you could read this article, which contains a few more tweets from left-leaning people taking issue with Biden's characterization of Vice President Pence as a "decent guy". And if that hasn't yet convinced you, you could try reading this article which contains an experience Ben Shapiro had with an acquaintance who said nice things about him on Twitter. If you're still unconvinced, I'll refer to the words of Biden himself:

Who do you think he gets "in trouble" with? Do you think he, or the NYT, is concerned that Republicans generally won't like him if he is polite / nice / respectful / likes Republicans? Will they have a "problem" with it? Or is it Dems that he will be "in trouble" with & will have a "problem" with his reaching across the aisle for a kind word or a bit of decency? The answer should be obvious.
  #66  
Old 04-22-2019, 03:54 PM
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If you're doubting if there are other examples, aside from Cynthia Nixon, of Dems that took issue with Biden's comment, you could start with Czarcasm's post #44. He recognized that "some were against it, some thought it was unfortunate, some thought it was despicable".
Talk about creative cutting and pasting to make it look like we are on the same page!
Here is what I actually said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm
Some were for it, some were against it, some thought it was unfortunate, some thought it was despicable, some thought it didn't matter compared to what is going on currently, some thought it doesn't matter because they aren't voting for him any way etc. etc. etc.
And some(or at least I) wonder why you give a fuck about this, other than as yet another diversion from current events.
Here is another friendly suggestion-stick to direct quotations, and these little "accidents" won't happen so often.
  #67  
Old 04-22-2019, 03:59 PM
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Talk about creative cutting and pasting to make it look like we are on the same page!
Here is what I actually said:
Here is another friendly suggestion-stick to direct quotations, and these little "accidents" won't happen so often.
Did I misquote something? I gave a post # so anyone interested could go back and find precisely the post I was referring to. I thought the repeated use of "some" made it obvious we haven't been talking about ALL Democrats. The ones that "were for it" or who thought it didn't / doesn't matter aren't really the issue here, just like the Republicans that were not perturbed by McCain's being nice to Obama were not really the issue in Kimstu's post.

ETA: I think we're on the same page on a few things. One of those is: some Democrats were upset by Biden's compliment to Vice President Pence. Do you disagree?

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-22-2019 at 04:01 PM.
  #68  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:08 PM
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I just posted to correct you. If you have nothing to say on the subject of this thread then I guess I'm done talking with you...unless you misquote me again, of course.
  #69  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:17 PM
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Correct what? You said "misquote". What did I misquote?

And have I got the essence of your position wrong? I thought you basically agreed that some Democrats were upset by Biden's compliment to Vice President Pence. Did I misunderstand you?
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Old 04-22-2019, 04:44 PM
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Who cares what point he thinks he’s making, another thread is being completely derailed.
  #71  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:49 PM
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The article I cited also states that Biden's comment "frustrated some on the left". Did you read that part? It was in the opening paragraph. If you're doubting if there are other examples, aside from Cynthia Nixon, of Dems that took issue with Biden's comment, you could start with Czarcasm's post #44. He recognized that "some were against it, some thought it was unfortunate, some thought it was despicable".
It strikes me that the "new" Democrats are just as rabid and blood thirsty as Republicans. Biden is perhaps now "old school", an era where politicians could politely disagree.
  #72  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:41 PM
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Trump's own lawyer has said that it is perfectly fine and good if Republicans work closely with Russians to gain access to stolen and hacked information, as long as that cooperation with a hostile foreign power is done in order to secure a Republican win.

And Republican house leaders and Republican senators agree with this.

This is what you have come down to; It's now OK to work openly with hostile foreign governments. I wonder how low the bar can be lowered now. OK for Republicans to assassinate thier opponents, as long as they pay someone else to do it, and are
not caught?
  #73  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:43 PM
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OK to fuck their daughters?
ETA: Ok, only if they're a fine piece of ass, amirite?

Last edited by bobot; 04-22-2019 at 08:44 PM.
  #74  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:51 PM
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It strikes me that the "new" Democrats are just as rabid and blood thirsty as Republicans. Biden is perhaps now "old school", an era where politicians could politely disagree.
I think you're right. I'd also add that there's a strain of similarly "old school" Republicans too that were more than happy to disagree politely.
  #75  
Old 04-22-2019, 09:06 PM
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Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
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...
For Democrats, leaving Donald Trump in office is not only good politics — it is the best chance for fundamental realignment of American politics in more than a generation. Mr. Trump is three years into destroying what we know as the Republican Party. Another two years just might finish it off. Trumpism has become Republicanism, and that spells electoral doom for the party.
...
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  #76  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:26 AM
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Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
Marginalizing the GOP would be a good thing for the nation but the price for doing so might be just too high. With the fairly rapid demographical changes occurring, the same thing might be accomplished by beating him in '20 and keeping the youth vote engaged.
  #77  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:47 AM
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Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
Political win-maybe.
Ethical loss-definitely.
  #78  
Old 04-23-2019, 09:21 AM
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America has one political party which pushes the truth
And exactly which party would that be?

Sorry, but neither major party in America is pushing the truth. Trump lies as naturally as breathing but Democrats do themselves a great disservice by jumping on anything and everything. Remember Kavanaugh? Democratic Dopers were freely calling him a rapist when it was manifestly a political put-up job. Trump a Russian agent? Give over. It's like the boy crying wolf: the people know to ignore it. The old Democrats have thoroughly discredited themselves and thus have squandered their gains; perhaps that's one reason why newcomers like Buttigieg and Cortez are doing so well?

Of course, I've money on Buttigieg, so I'm biased.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:04 PM
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"Americans are a stupid people by and large. We pretty much believe whatever we're told."
And yet surprisingly you never see anyone so stupid that they don't resent being told how stupid they are. See "deplorables".
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:29 PM
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And yet surprisingly you never see anyone so stupid that they don't resent being told how stupid they are. See "deplorables".
But they are certainly stupid enough to believe exaggerated retellings over the original words said in context. See "deplorables".
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:31 PM
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Who knew Easter was an anti christian holiday?
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:42 PM
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Who knew Easter was an anti christian holiday?
I like to think of Easter as the first Furry holiday, what with adults dressing up as bunnies.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:05 PM
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Why are people so convinced of Trump's reelection because "his base will never leave him" when his base has consistently hovered at around 30 percent? That's not overwhelming approval.
Is that 30 per cent of likely voters? The most hardcore voters (on both sides) are more likely to vote. Trump is both uniquely loved (by his supporters) and hated (by his opponents), even more than Clinton and Obama (who also saw similar outbursts of emotion from voters). I imagine a huge turnout from all these fired up people. I was hoping that lots of Republicans would get tired of the incompetence and corruption, but that's not really happening. Trumpian charisma and dishonesty is so far "trumping" Democratic overreactions. That didn't help him in the midterms though.

The Democrats' "likely" supporters tend to be younger, and less likely to vote. The Republicans' "likely" supporters tend to be older, and more likely to vote. The younger Millennials now outnumber the older Baby Boomers, but I suspect more Baby Boomers vote, so right now older voters hold an advantage. Due to the usual effects of old age, this will gradually shift numbers in favor of younger voters. I am not expecting a massive shift in only four years.

There will still be a lot of people not connected to the political process at all, who will not vote.
  #84  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:20 PM
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The problem is that the two examples you are using are not nearly equivalent, so phrasing it this way is equivocating. McCain defended Obama as a decent man - the criticism of him was that he was Arabic. First, that was a stupid criticism from the crowd that McCain was responding to because being Arabic and being decent are not mutually exclusive. Second, Obama didn't do anything to call into question his decency so the charge was wholly unfounded.

Pence on the other hand, is a hateful homophobe. It's entirely understandable why people would object to Pence being characterized as decent.

For your example to work, the people underlying the comparison would have to be similar. But they are not, not even close. I disagree with many of Obama's policy positions, but the guy was pretty awesome as a person. Pence, I probably agree with many of his policy positions, but he's an asshat. Your attempt at equivocation only works if you raise it to a level so high as to be meaningless. Like, yeah, they're both humans. But that's not a useful comparison.
I've seen that clip probably 50 times, so god help me if I get it wrong but the sequence was this:
  1. Lady gets up, starts going on about how we can't trust Obama, starts fumbling, "I heard he's he's..." finally spits it out "an Arab."
  2. McCain immediately starts shaking his head and starts replying, "No ma'am...no ma'am"
  3. So the first thing he does is shoot down the whole birther thing (yes I know that Kenya doesn't equal Arab)
  4. You can see a few people in the audience front rows kind of laughing at the question
  5. McCain then goes on to describe Obama as decent, etc.
  6. At which point you can hear people booing McCain.

For Trumpies, that is the origin moment of the hatred of McCain, not his thumbs down vote on Obamacare. Just like for some of them, Hillary's goes all the way back to the Tammy Wynette comment in 1992.
  #85  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:25 PM
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Why are people so convinced of Trump's reelection because "his base will never leave him" when his base has consistently hovered at around 30 percent? That's not overwhelming approval.
It's enough, if 50% of Americans don't care.
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  #86  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:54 PM
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Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
Quote:
... Mr. Trump is three years into destroying what we know as the Republican Party. Another two years just might finish it off. Trumpism has become Republicanism, and that spells electoral doom for the party.
That article is not calling for Trump's re-election; it claims that just two more years will doom the GOP. Assuming Trump is their nominee the GOP will be tied to Trumpism in 2020-2021. If the Democrats find a unifying message, we can hope that Republican power will fade away.

Six more years of Trump? Not only would permanent damage be even more severe than has already occurred, but with gerrymandering, voter suppression, and more partisan judicial appointments there would be risk that the criminals would cement their political power despite increased American awareness.

Victory in the 2020 election is crucial; yet it's a 50-50 coin-toss right now. I may be lambasted for saying so, but America's best hope for the future is that a severe economic crisis develops next year.
  #87  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:01 PM
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That article is not calling for Trump's re-election; it claims that just two more years will doom the GOP. Assuming Trump is their nominee the GOP will be tied to Trumpism in 2020-2021. If the Democrats find a unifying message, we can hope that Republican power will fade away.

Six more years of Trump? Not only would permanent damage be even more severe than has already occurred, but with gerrymandering, voter suppression, and more partisan judicial appointments there would be risk that the criminals would cement their political power despite increased American awareness.

Victory in the 2020 election is crucial; yet it's a 50-50 coin-toss right now. I may be lambasted for saying so, but America's best hope for the future is that a severe economic crisis develops next year.
You're right. I was just hinting at the pony in this room full of shit.
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  #88  
Old 04-23-2019, 05:50 PM
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But they are certainly stupid enough to believe exaggerated retellings over the original words said in context. See "deplorables".
I've read the original words in context. They hardly need exaggerating.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:12 PM
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Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
A lot of pundits predicted that Trump's nomination in 2016 would destroy the party - not only has it not broken the party, but he has now largely unified it under his banner.

What can be said is that a lot of independents are turned off by today's GOP and find it increasingly difficult to identify with much of it. But that doesn't mean they've become liberalized. If anything, I think it's a sign that the electorate is capable of splintering into smaller, more tightly-woven factions. Governing by coalitions is going to be harder the longer Trump (or Trump-like creatures) inhabit the White House. People like Trump win by polarizing and by simply ignoring all the rules - not just the conventions of democratic rule by also the laws and the Constitution.

Look at what Trump is doing now. "You want my tax returns? Come get them, mother fuckers!"
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:21 PM
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And exactly which party would that be?

Sorry, but neither major party in America is pushing the truth. Trump lies as naturally as breathing but Democrats do themselves a great disservice by jumping on anything and everything. Remember Kavanaugh? Democratic Dopers were freely calling him a rapist when it was manifestly a political put-up job. Trump a Russian agent? Give over. It's like the boy crying wolf: the people know to ignore it. The old Democrats have thoroughly discredited themselves and thus have squandered their gains; perhaps that's one reason why newcomers like Buttigieg and Cortez are doing so well?

Of course, I've money on Buttigieg, so I'm biased.
There was evidence and eyewitness testimony that suggested rather strongly Kavanaugh had committed acts that, at best, were highly inappropriate and of a sexual nature. There is evidence that the Trump campaign supported Trump's election, and that Donald Trump knew about it. There is evidence that Trump has dubious financial ties to Russian oligarchs, including Putin. And at any rate, what you're referring involves no distinction between old and new Democrats. I really don't know what you're getting at, honestly.
  #91  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:32 PM
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... There is evidence that the Trump campaign supported Trump's election, and that Donald Trump knew about it. ...
LOL! One would hope!
  #92  
Old 04-24-2019, 03:20 AM
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America has one political party which pushes the truth ... opposed by a gang of criminals and hypocrites who do nothing but lie.
So you favor the Republicans?




American politics is subjective. BOTH of the main parties are lying, cheating, incompetent skunks.
The only difference is how they promote their brand of lies.
  #93  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:37 AM
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So you favor the Republicans?




American politics is subjective. BOTH of the main parties are lying, cheating, incompetent skunks.
The only difference is how they promote their brand of lies.
I've noticed that this "both sides do it" crap is only brought up when the Republicans are being criticized. Why is that, I wonder?
  #94  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:30 AM
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So you favor the Republicans?




American politics is subjective. BOTH of the main parties are lying, cheating, incompetent skunks.
The only difference is how they promote their brand of lies.
I don't expect you to back up your bizarre and incompetent assertion.

I do wonder if you'll divulge what your "news" source(s) are.
  #95  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Interesting take. The upside of re-electing thump.

There’s a Bigger Prize Than Impeachment
Keeping Trump in office will destroy the Republican Party.

https://nyti.ms/2W0iAtJ
Going back to this article, I remember that this was what some of the more extreme Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, and even whacked out Trump supporters believed when they eitehr voted for Trump or simply decided not to vote for Hillary. There was a small but not-so-insignificant group of political nihilists who believed that Trump would tear down the system and that it would be for the long-term good of the country if we could just grin and bear it for 4 years.

The problem is, tearing down a system necessarily requires building a new one in its place that can effectively be used as a political framework to create something for the common good. What we might very well be facing after the Trump era finally ends is a federal debt so massive that some form of austerity will have to be implemented to restore some degree of balance and to save things like social security and medicare/medicaid. It could be that even if we elected someone on a medicare-for-all mandate, we simply might not be able to afford it until much, much later. Moreover, by that time, we may have a federal judiciary that is so ideologically conservative that they effectively render progressive reforms unconstitutional and dead on arrival. We may be left with a political system that is ripe for more and more obstruction, which would undermine and discredit progressivism and potentially create a breeding ground for clashes between right and left extremist ideologues. I don't see us headed to a good place right now.
  #96  
Old 04-24-2019, 07:26 AM
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I've thought more about this discussion overnight and now I'm not sure that I agree that Trump will ruin the GOP, whether he remains in the White House for two more years or six. Post Trump, Republicans will simply ask American voters to ignore the fact that he was ever president, to forget that they ever went down that road in the first place and instead ramp up their Holy War against the continuing encroachment of "socialism." Battling progressivism and suppressing democracy will be their righteous causes and, though increasingly outnumbered, there will always be an audience willing to listen.

They'll be far from ruined. The awful tactics used to stack the Supreme Court and a majority in the Senate that Dems may never be able to dislodge will enable them to obstruct progress for many more election cycles.

As always, keep an eye on the country's newest voters. They can't be stifled forever.
  #97  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:44 AM
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I've noticed that this "both sides do it" crap is only brought up when the Republicans are being criticized. Why is that, I wonder?
Probably because the SDMB leans so far left that there isn't much criticism of Dems here. What little there is often enough is responded to with "both sides" arguments that I'm a bit surprised you'd try to make an "only" claim.
  #98  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:13 AM
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Probably because the SDMB leans so far left that there isn't much criticism of Dems here. What little there is often enough is responded to with "both sides" arguments that I'm a bit surprised you'd try to make an "only" claim.
I make the claim because I can't find any evidence to the contrary, despite your unsubstantiated claim that it happens often.
  #99  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:15 AM
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It may well be that a reelected trump will destroy the Republican party. But some of us, at least, are worried about what will happen to America before that happens.
  #100  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:16 AM
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It may well be that a reelected trump will destroy the Republican party. But some of us, at least, are worried about what will happen to America before that happens.
Same here. Let's leave that "ends justify the means" crap to the Republicans.
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