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  #51  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Think I've seen you on SNL! "Guy at the gym you wish you hadn't started a conversation with."
Point taken. Looking back on it, I should have been less of a smartass. I found Chronos' arguments seriously lacking and should have used another way of putting that across.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-09-2019 at 09:03 AM.
  #52  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:44 AM
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Think I've seen you on SNL! "Guy at the gym you wish you hadn't started a conversation with."
Sorry for ETA again: It occurred to me that you and I hadn't started a conversation at all in this thread and that if my posting style annoys you, the solution is fairly obvious, there's even a dedicated button for it. Yet you didn't do that. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but what that suggests is that you find yourself wanting to read my posts even if you find the tone annoying (which would be fair enough, I let my lower self set my tone).

If there are questions you'd like to ask in this thread about mushrooms, their opportunities and risks and are concerned that I'd take the same tone with you, I wouldn't be mocking if I thought you were making an effort to learn rather than try to hide your head in the sand. Every single person starts out ignorant about any given topic, myself included, so it wouldn't make sense for me to have contempt for those who want to rise from that starting ignorance (I was that person too), only for those who wish to remain in it.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-09-2019 at 11:44 AM.
  #53  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:10 PM
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Don't worry about it. Vinyl Turnip doesn't do conversation. He just tells jokes.
  #54  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
If there are questions you'd like to ask in this thread about mushrooms, their opportunities and risks and are concerned that I'd take the same tone with you, I wouldn't be mocking if I thought you were making an effort to learn rather than try to hide your head in the sand.
I don't; I'm quite familiar with mushrooms and think the Denver decriminalization is a positive step. (I have no idea what I'd be "hiding my head in the sand" about, but nonetheless...)

What I find slightly annoying is not your posting style per se, but the embodiment of a certain brand of psychedelic mysticism/evangelism that I've been seeing in various forms since the heyday of Usenet, coupled with your scoffing implication that there's no appreciable risk in using Tor to purchase, say, the tryptamine analog du jour from some factory lab in Guangzhou. Even cloaked in anonymity and cryptocurrency, the shit has to get to you somehow— meaning there is a risk, however minimal you may believe it to be.
  #55  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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n/m, saw VT's reply.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-09-2019 at 12:27 PM.
  #56  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
but the embodiment of a certain brand of psychedelic mysticism/evangelism that I've been seeing in various forms since the heyday of Usenet
Do I get a pass if I say that I was high when I posted that?


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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
coupled with your scoffing implication that there's no appreciable risk in using Tor to purchase, say, the tryptamine analog du jour from some factory lab in Guangzhou. Even cloaked in anonymity and cryptocurrency, the shit has to get to you somehow— meaning there is a risk, however minimal you may believe it to be.
There is a risk. My disagreement is with Chronos' contention that:
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Alcohol isn't really the proper basis for comparison.
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we attempted, nearly a century ago, to ban it. And no, it didn't work.
because
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the reason that it didn't work is that it's the most difficult drug on the planet to enforce
I don't think his distinction that shrooms are different from alcohol in terms of prohibition enforcement effectiveness stands up to examination.

Or, maybe, law enforcement is actually having an easy time suppressing the trade in psychedelics and I'm the one who needs to be informed of just how effective they are. It seems counterintuitive to me but that might just be my ignorance and misled intuition.
  #57  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:05 PM
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a certain brand of psychedelic mysticism/evangelism that I've been seeing in various forms since the heyday of Usenet
I can see how that would be frustrating and eye-rolling. What I've found frustrating is people saying: "Alcoholic prohibition was a bad idea, sure. But for pot/psychedelics, it's different this time". I think we're finding out that pot prohibition was about as ill-advised as alcohol prohibition. I suggest that 1-2 decades from now, most of the population will come around to the idea that psychedelic prohibition was as ill-advised as alcohol/pot prohibition. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong but I doubt it.

I find it especially frustrating when people expound that view because I think that extending prohibition to pot/psychedelics but not alcohol results in steering people towards alcohol and I'm acquainted with how alcoholics can affect others. It makes me think of all those people who are going to be affected by alcohol abuse, directly or indirectly, who don't have to be but will be because of ill-advised prohibition policies based on fear and ignorance. I don't know about you but I find that rather more frustrating than mysticism/evangelism on an Internet forum.

I found this amusing: https://imgur.com/gallery/G9ZrAtS

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-09-2019 at 02:06 PM.
  #58  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:16 PM
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Well, yes, of course it's easier to get away with black-market alcohol than black-market other drugs, and I'm baffled that this is even contentious. I can buy the raw materials to make alcohol at any market in the country, and it'll go completely unnoticed, because everyone buys those raw materials, all the time. I could walk right up to a policeman and say "Pardon me, officer, where's the nearest grocery store? I need to buy some potatoes". But if I go around looking for the raw materials to produce psychedelic mushrooms, I'm likely to attract attention. Maybe there are ways to do it without attracting attention, and maybe there are even ways to do it that are legal, but it requires a level of care that isn't even necessary for alcohol.
  #59  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:32 PM
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Growing psilocybin mushrooms requires sterile jars and a substrate--arcane and difficult to find items like straw and wood chips and manure and coffee grounds and brown rice. My goodness, that's sure gonna get you some raised eyebrows at the grocery or nursery supply store! You only have to buy spores once and after that the fungi just keep growing all on their own as you snip off the fruiting bodies. And shrooms don't explode the jars like alcohol does if you don't comprehend the concept of the fermentation lock. Not to mention that putting together a still to make actual alcohol rather than piss poor beer or wine is definitely not for the cack handed. Nope, sorry dawg, growing shrooms for home consumption requires basically nothing more than a little space and some rudimentary gardening and cooking skills.
  #60  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SmartAleq View Post
Growing psilocybin mushrooms requires sterile jars and a substrate--arcane and difficult to find items like straw and wood chips and manure and coffee grounds and brown rice. My goodness, that's sure gonna get you some raised eyebrows at the grocery or nursery supply store! You only have to buy spores once and after that the fungi just keep growing all on their own as you snip off the fruiting bodies. And shrooms don't explode the jars like alcohol does if you don't comprehend the concept of the fermentation lock. Not to mention that putting together a still to make actual alcohol rather than piss poor beer or wine is definitely not for the cack handed. Nope, sorry dawg, growing shrooms for home consumption requires basically nothing more than a little space and some rudimentary gardening and cooking skills.
They've got kits now that you can buy and all you have to do is add water and let it sit for 20 or so days.
  #61  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:45 PM
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I know but I'm going along with the hypothetical by making it as difficult as possible. I mean, they have beer kits too so with about the same expenditure of effort you could take a fun trip AND have tasty beer to wash the skanky shrooms down with. What a world!
  #62  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Well, yes, of course it's easier to get away with black-market alcohol than black-market other drugs, and I'm baffled that this is even contentious. I can buy the raw materials to make alcohol at any market in the country, and it'll go completely unnoticed, because everyone buys those raw materials, all the time. I could walk right up to a policeman and say "Pardon me, officer, where's the nearest grocery store? I need to buy some potatoes". But if I go around looking for the raw materials to produce psychedelic mushrooms, I'm likely to attract attention. Maybe there are ways to do it without attracting attention, and maybe there are even ways to do it that are legal, but it requires a level of care that isn't even necessary for alcohol.
That's a more cogent version of the argument than I'd hear previously. I should have shown more humility and civility. Thanks for calling me on it VT.
  #63  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:30 PM
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Years ago, I was told about a local bookstore that sold a psilocybin growing kit; it was clearly marketed for educational purposes, but it was very easy to use. As noted by others, you just needed to put the spores into a container which you kept cool and dark. Wait about 3 weeks and you get mushrooms sprouting (now, the timing needs to be right; they were barely crowning one night, so I waited a couple of days and found myself with huge overgrown mushrooms - I've since been told that they are better plucked when they are much smaller). When you pick them, you are supposed to shake the spores into the spoil and get another round, but I failed at that, too.

The 'shrooms ended up making me sick for about an hour before the "trip" kicked in, and I threw out the whole setup - a legal, uniform system of dosaging would have been much better. A friend I've known used to harvest mushrooms regularly using this method.

The point is that mushrooms are very, very easy to grow and harvest, and it's a simple thing to set it up without arousing suspicion.

(Mods, please note that I am posting in Denver, Colorado, so I am not discussing criminal behavior. Also, all of this discussion is about past events, and I don't intend to encourage actions wherever they may be prohibited)
  #64  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:33 PM
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It looks like voters are saying "not right now".
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Denver Post said it passed. Narrowly (by 2000 votes)
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Holy crap! I never thought it would pass on the first vote! We truly live in interesting times!
  #65  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:03 AM
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In theory, I'm in favor, if only because I believe society will be better off -- big-picture, long-term -- when we stop trying to police the substances people want to put into their bodies.

In practice, though -- hmmm. Shrooms are not IME an easily-managed buzz like pot or alcohol. They're an unpredictable ride and are definitely not for amateurs. Plus, doesn't this reinforce the slippery slope argument people continue to make about legalizing weed? See, told you they'd try to legalize harder stuff if you let them make pot legal ...

I think the argument is particularly strong for stuff that is not manufactured or “cooked”. Marijuana is a flower, psilocybin is a fungus. OTOH you are right: I have had awesome experiences on shrooms, but also terrifying ones. As Timothy Leary said, set and setting are paramount. And even then, some people are inherently primed to basically go psychotic when using them. So it might be better if novices were required to learn how to use psychedelics in a controlled environment.
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