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  #51  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:52 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he's a complete failure.
All of which have one thing in common; they're based on Trump convincing other people they should give him something.

Like I said, I give Trump full credit as a salesman. The question is once he's been given something, how good is he at managing it? It's already been established he lost a lot of the money that people invested with him. His television show got mediocre ratings. And while he hasn't completed his career as President, there's ample evidence he won't be regarded as a success in that.
  #52  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:04 PM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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Considering that with inherited money he ended up poorer (even taking him at his word concerning his net worth) than he would have been just investing the money in index funds and not trying to manage it himself, I expect that the answer to the OP question would leave the phrase "Would you like fries with that?" firmly imprinted onto his Broca's convolution.
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  #53  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:05 PM
Jacquernagy Jacquernagy is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Max View Post
Ultimately, Trump is somewhat successful and lives a lower class life. He lacks ethics and intelligence to advance socially.
You cannot get any lower-class than the life he's living right now.
  #54  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:10 PM
Blank Slate Blank Slate is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. This.

Come on - if he weren't a brilliant salesman, he wouldn't be rich - and he is - and he wouldn't be President. And he is.

Right, right - everything he does, fails. Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he's a complete failure.

Regards,
Shodan
How would this have happened? Without daddy's backing he doesn't get the capital or the inherited properties. If he managed to make it as far as his casino bankruptcies, no bank would have lent him a cent. After the bankruptcies he got the inheritance, which saved his fat ass.

Do you really believe Trump becomes a real estate tycoon starting with nothing? LOL.
  #55  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:34 PM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is offline
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Time to invoke a variation of Shodan’s Law: If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either.
  #56  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:36 PM
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Interesting to contrast Trump with Alan (now Lord) Sugar, the star of the UK version of The Apprentice. He truly is a self-made billionaire who started his business empire after leaving school age 16, selling car radio antennas from the back of a van he bought with his meagre life savings. From what I hear, Trump and Sugar don't really get on too well.
  #57  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:28 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Time to invoke a variation of Shodan’s Law: If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either.
I'm sure there are people who still believe they'll be getting their check from Bernie Madoff any day now. Some people will keep believing forever in the face of overwhelming evidence rather than admit they were suckered.

As Trump himself bragged "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." He knows his base is made up of eternal suckers who will always believe him no matter how many times he lies to them.

Last edited by Little Nemo; 03-19-2018 at 01:30 PM.
  #58  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:33 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
He would be an immensely rich real estate tycoon. This.

Come on - if he weren't a brilliant salesman, he wouldn't be rich - and he is - and he wouldn't be President. And he is.

Right, right - everything he does, fails. Apart from making a shit ton of money, getting his own TV show, and getting elected President, he's a complete failure.

Regards,
Shodan
Name a business that he started that succeeded. Is it Trump airlines, Trump steaks, Trump University, Trump vodka, Trump Magazine, Trump mortgages, GoTrump.com?

That "Trump" on all those gaudy buildings is from the Trump Organization, started by Fred Trump, not Donald Trump; it's not Donald's name on those buildings. He just happens to share a name with the guy whose name is on those buildings.

An easy way to be a "rich real estate tycoon" is to be born to a rich real estate tycoon. That's not an actual skill. Or is it just a wild coincidence that his one and only successful enterprise just so happens to be the one that he was handed on the day he was born?
  #59  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:45 PM
jz78817 jz78817 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Time to invoke a variation of Shodan’s Law: If they refuse to acknowledge or believe it the first two dozen times, they won’t acknowledge or believe it the 25th time either.
Repeating it 25 times doesn't make it true. that's what we call an informal fallacy, and its name is Proof by assertion.
  #60  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:49 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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I prefer to call it "proof by gesticulation".
  #61  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:50 PM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
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Originally Posted by ticker View Post
Interesting to contrast Trump with Alan (now Lord) Sugar,
I want to be called Lord Sugar
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  #62  
Old 03-19-2018, 02:27 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Trump is more on the Glengarry Glen Ross spectrum than Fargo.

But is he Alec Baldwin, Kevin Spacey, Al Pacino, or Jack Lemon?

You can go a long way in this world by projecting an air of confidence and getting clients to sign on the line which is dotted, and not giving a fuck what happens next.

Hmm, from the plot summary:

Quote:
Richard "Ricky" Roma: The most successful salesman in the office. Although Roma seems to think of himself as a latter-day cowboy and regards his ability to make a sale as a sign of his virility, he admits only to himself that it is all luck. He is ruthless, dishonest and immoral, but succeeds because he has a talent for figuring out a client's weaknesses and crafting a pitch that will exploit those weaknesses.
On the other hand, I can easily see Trump screaming, "Fuck you, that's my name!" at people. And on the third hand, Trump's self-pity is legendary.
  #63  
Old 03-19-2018, 02:31 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is online now
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
That "Trump" on all those gaudy buildings is from the Trump Organization, started by Fred Trump, not Donald Trump; it's not Donald's name on those buildings. He just happens to share a name with the guy whose name is on those buildings.
According to Wikipedia, Donald started running the Trump Organization in 1971. Construction on Trump Tower started in 1979. Now granted his father started the company. But it would be disingenuous to not give credit to Donald Trump's massive ego for starting over 500 subsidiary business ventures, of which around half bear his name.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank Slate
Do you really believe Trump becomes a real estate tycoon starting with nothing? LOL.
I have no idea. But he seems to have always had a passion and an aptitude for real estate investing.

I used Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran as an example because she created a $60 million dollar real estate empire basically out of nothing. And IMHO she's not particularly smart or educated (as in she didn't go to Wharton or anything like that).

So it's not out of the realm of possibility for me to imagine Donald Trump's single-minded drive and ego enabling him to be a success, even without help from his father. Especially in the 80s when his particular brand of narcissistic misogyny and elitism would play well.
  #64  
Old 03-19-2018, 03:47 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
According to Wikipedia, Donald started running the Trump Organization in 1971. Construction on Trump Tower started in 1979. Now granted his father started the company. But it would be disingenuous to not give credit to Donald Trump's massive ego for starting over 500 subsidiary business ventures, of which around half bear his name.
If one of the current crop of Walton family members opens a new Walmart, that Walmart is still named for the guy who founded the company, Sam Walton. The next generation of Waltons are all worth billions more than Trump, and yet I don't consider them great business people.
  #65  
Old 03-19-2018, 04:28 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Prison. He would have enough contacts from the before time to get himself into big circles, but not enough money to keep himself out of trouble. He would overextend himself, get sued, overextend himself again, get sued, overextend himself again, and get sent to jail.
  #66  
Old 03-19-2018, 05:15 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is online now
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
If one of the current crop of Walton family members opens a new Walmart, that Walmart is still named for the guy who founded the company, Sam Walton. The next generation of Waltons are all worth billions more than Trump, and yet I don't consider them great business people.
The Walton family doesn't run the company.


Again, I'm not Trump's biographer or even his advocate. But it would be disingenuous to say he hasn't successfully run a large real estate company for the past 47 years.
  #67  
Old 03-19-2018, 05:20 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
The Walton family doesn't run the company.


Again, I'm not Trump's biographer or even his advocate. But it would be disingenuous to say he hasn't successfully run a large real estate company for the past 47 years.
For certain values of "successfully".
  #68  
Old 03-19-2018, 05:35 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
The Walton family doesn't run the company.


Again, I'm not Trump's biographer or even his advocate. But it would be disingenuous to say he hasn't successfully run a large real estate company for the past 47 years.
Or a large money laundering scheme. I guess we'll find out.
  #69  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:24 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
But it would be disingenuous to say he hasn't successfully run a large real estate company for the past 47 years.
How do you define success? Let's go easy and define it as somebody who performs in the top 50% rather than the bottom 50% - in other words, somebody who performs above average.

Can you offer evidence that Donald Trump has done better than half of the other people who were in his situation?

Yes, he ran a real estate company for several decades. But he didn't create the company; it was already an established company when he took charge of it.

How has Trump's performance as a real estate developer been over the course of his career in comparison to other real estate developers during the same period? Did he make more money than the average or less?
  #70  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:41 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
The Walton family doesn't run the company.
Yet their ROI is better than Trump's. I'd say that, at least, indicates they have superior business acumen to Trump - the acumen to realize there are better business minds if financial returns are the ultimate goal. That's no small thing. Swallowing your pride and saying "there are people better at this than me" to achieve your goals takes a reasonable amount of discipline and self-honesty.

Of course, ROI is not the whole story. I imagine Donald Trump, like a lot of people in his position, derives considerable enjoyment from being the big wheeler/dealer of a large company whether or not he's above average at business or not. Clearly, by his own self-reported numbers (which may be inflated anyway), he's not the sharpest business mind in the shed but it appears he's achieved his goals - maintain a reasonable amount of wealth to buy notoriety, name recognition, and personal comfort. His children and/or grandchildren (most of whom do not appear to be much better at business - and show distressing signs of somehow being worse) may end up squandering what's left, but he'll do ok for himself at least.
  #71  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:13 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by Great Antibob View Post
Of course, ROI is not the whole story. I imagine Donald Trump, like a lot of people in his position, derives considerable enjoyment from being the big wheeler/dealer of a large company whether or not he's above average at business or not. Clearly, by his own self-reported numbers (which may be inflated anyway), he's not the sharpest business mind in the shed but it appears he's achieved his goals - maintain a reasonable amount of wealth to buy notoriety, name recognition, and personal comfort. His children and/or grandchildren (most of whom do not appear to be much better at business - and show distressing signs of somehow being worse) may end up squandering what's left, but he'll do ok for himself at least.
No, getting elected President was the worst thing Trump ever did. Not just for the country but for Trump himself.

Buchanan was a skilled diplomat, but who remembers that? Hoover was a respected public official, but that's been forgotten. Once you become President, your performance in that office is all history will judge you by.

So a hundred years from now, people won't remember whatever success Donald Trump may have had as a businessman. He'll be remembered as a failed President.
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