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  #551  
Old 07-05-2018, 07:08 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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Just to go on record right now...
My theory for Avengers 4: They come up with a method of time travel, maybe with some tech from Hank Pym or maybe from Captain Marvel, but they can either only jump a certain number of times or maybe only to times and places associated with the Infinity Stones. They try the first several times and fail, maybe some of them die in the attempts. Tony Stark is the last survivor and he goes to the final battle in Wakanda and maybe he's dying, and the only thing he can do is tell Thor to aim for the head. Thor kills Thanos just before the snap and everyone else's deaths are real but the snap never happens.
  #552  
Old 07-05-2018, 07:42 PM
simster simster is offline
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
It seems like it’d be weird for Gamora not to mouth off about that, though.
Entirely possible she doesn't know?
  #553  
Old 07-05-2018, 08:03 PM
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Entirely possible she doesn't know?
The Guardians have been jetting around the galaxy at liberty for how long now and she never got Quill to fly out to her home planet?
  #554  
Old 07-05-2018, 08:05 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Entirely possible she doesn't know?

I guess my point is, your point only works if Thanos doesn’t know how it went and Gamora doesn’t know how it went — and for the sake of a story, I can reluctantly grant that Thanos built his plan around that result without bothering to check, or I can grant that Gamora never bothered to find out; but I’m not sure I’m interested in a story where neither of them ever thinks to ask, either before the conversation in question or during it, “hey, what happened there after that?”
  #555  
Old 07-05-2018, 08:40 PM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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Agreed, Waldo.

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Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
Just to go on record right now...
My theory for Avengers 4: They come up with a method of time travel, maybe with some tech from Hank Pym or maybe from Captain Marvel, but they can either only jump a certain number of times or maybe only to times and places associated with the Infinity Stones. They try the first several times and fail, maybe some of them die in the attempts. Tony Stark is the last survivor and he goes to the final battle in Wakanda and maybe he's dying, and the only thing he can do is tell Thor to aim for the head. Thor kills Thanos just before the snap and everyone else's deaths are real but the snap never happens.
I like this.

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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
As an aside: About Thanos' claim that Gamora's world is now utopian. Does anyone else suspect that he's never actually checked back up on them, and is just so certain that he's right that he doesn't need to confirm? And so he's completely unaware that in the following months, another 45% of the population died from the effects of the collapse of the planet's social and economic systems?
Good point. Look how disruptive it was in “The Leftovers” to lose just two percent of the world’s population.
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  #556  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:15 PM
simster simster is offline
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
I guess my point is, your point only works if Thanos doesn’t know how it went and Gamora doesn’t know how it went — and for the sake of a story, I can reluctantly grant that Thanos built his plan around that result without bothering to check, or I can grant that Gamora never bothered to find out; but I’m not sure I’m interested in a story where neither of them ever thinks to ask, either before the conversation in question or during it, “hey, what happened there after that?”
Thanos doesn't care how it went - he gave them the opportunity to succeed, it was up to them to make it work.

Gamora, while she may remember what happened, etc - may or may not know the name/location of her home planet. She didn't argue for or against it based on the success or lack thereof , just based on how wrong it was to do what THanos was doing.

Remember, it hasn't been that long between GotG and GotG2 , Gamora 'just' escaped. Grant you, I think by now she might have tried to find out - but its not in story that she did .
  #557  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:36 AM
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Keep in mind that she was only a child when she was taken from her world, so she almost certainly doesn't know anything like coordinates. She could still track it down, based on things like the local name and "where do people like me come from", but that would take time, especially if the world has sunk into obscurity (which it would, if most of the population died off. And, heck, it'd also take some nonzero amount of time for her to even realize that it's possible: She's spent most of her life getting used to being the only one of her kind, and in the time since she's been free, she's been keeping pretty busy.
  #558  
Old 07-06-2018, 10:52 AM
MaxTheVool MaxTheVool is offline
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And of course it's possible that for some sci-fi reason, that planet't society was organized in such a way that the Thanos snap DID actually improve things. It certainly would be a catastrophe on earth, or any human society we could imagine, but aliens are alien.
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  #559  
Old 07-06-2018, 01:59 PM
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Or maybe 1000 years has passed on her planet - time anomaly or whatnot - and it really has recovered since then.
  #560  
Old 07-06-2018, 02:55 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Thanos doesn't care how it went - he gave them the opportunity to succeed, it was up to them to make it work.

Gamora, while she may remember what happened, etc - may or may not know the name/location of her home planet. She didn't argue for or against it based on the success or lack thereof , just based on how wrong it was to do what THanos was doing.

Remember, it hasn't been that long between GotG and GotG2 , Gamora 'just' escaped. Grant you, I think by now she might have tried to find out - but its not in story that she did .
Eh, remember that Thanos hasn't always kept her in sight. He's given her out as a mercenary to Ronin, and there's no sign it's the first time. He also sent her out to find the Soul Stone. Personally, it's entirely possible she used that as an excuse to find her home planet, realized it's a complete wasteland, and resolved then and there never to give Thanos the ability to do so on a galactic scale.
  #561  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:41 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Eh, remember that Thanos hasn't always kept her in sight. He's given her out as a mercenary to Ronin, and there's no sign it's the first time. He also sent her out to find the Soul Stone. Personally, it's entirely possible she used that as an excuse to find her home planet, realized it's a complete wasteland, and resolved then and there never to give Thanos the ability to do so on a galactic scale.

Again, wouldn’t she mention that if he explains that he’s doing a galactic-scale retread because, hey, it worked out just great, didn’t it? I mean, I never actually bothered to check; but I guess things worked out, maybe? Little help, here?
  #562  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:20 PM
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I don't know why people are so focused on whether she went back or not. Peter never went back to earth either, and he actually had family there.
  #563  
Old 07-07-2018, 09:30 AM
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I don't know why people are so focused on whether she went back or not. Peter never went back to earth either, and he actually had family there.
He's not from Earth, he's from Missouri.
  #564  
Old 07-07-2018, 01:44 PM
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He's not from Earth, he's from Missouri.
Um, Missouri is on Earth, dipshit.
  #565  
Old 07-07-2018, 01:50 PM
Harrington Harrington is offline
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Just to go on record right now...
My theory for Avengers 4: They come up with a method of time travel, maybe with some tech from Hank Pym or maybe from Captain Marvel, but they can either only jump a certain number of times or maybe only to times and places associated with the Infinity Stones. They try the first several times and fail, maybe some of them die in the attempts. Tony Stark is the last survivor and he goes to the final battle in Wakanda and maybe he's dying, and the only thing he can do is tell Thor to aim for the head. Thor kills Thanos just before the snap and everyone else's deaths are real but the snap never happens.
And, in a mid-credits scene, we see that some of the stones have been extracted from the gauntlet and set as jewelry in a pendant, ring, brooch, necklace, for a travelling fashion show. And with the Space Stone, I do mean travelling.

"Here is Tiara, the most beautiful woman in the universe, with the Reality Stone."

"And here is Alexis with the Time Stone." "And here is Alexis with the Time Stone." "And here is Alexis with the Time Stone." "And here is Alexis with the Time Stone." "And here is Alexis with the Time Stone."

etc...

Followed by rolling credits with a bad-ass Peter Quill song playing.
  #566  
Old 07-07-2018, 02:30 PM
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Just a note, here: While it is not permitted here to insult other posters, it is permitted to insult fictional characters, and also permitted to quote movies. In case anyone was confused by post 564.
  #567  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:12 PM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
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Just a note, here: While it is not permitted here to insult other posters, it is permitted to insult fictional characters, and also permitted to quote movies. In case anyone was confused by post 564.
Ha, I thought to myself "I wonder if anyone will notice this".

Just came back from seeing it a second time and it's as good as the first. What an emotional movie! It's also worth mentioning that while we saw it on a super-small theater, we were 2 of probably 10 or 11 people in there. Not bad for a 3 month old movie
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  #568  
Old 07-08-2018, 09:32 PM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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I think with Ant-Man and the Wasp out there we're now pretty solid on the time travel solution. How Scott comes back from the Quantum Realm is anybody's guess, but there's definitely a stated time anomaly element going on.
  #569  
Old 07-08-2018, 09:48 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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I think with Ant-Man and the Wasp out there we're now pretty solid on the time travel solution. How Scott comes back from the Quantum Realm is anybody's guess, but there's definitely a stated time anomaly element going on.
He probably comes back the same way he did in the first Ant Man movie.
  #570  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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TruCelt TruCelt is offline
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So I missed this one in the theaters, and recently watched it on Netflix. I’m a bit of a newbie, and I have questions.
In fact, I have so many I'm going to number them to make quote responses easier.
1. Why did Loki say “I’m not an Asgardian”?

2. Why was Drax pretending to be invisible?

3. What’s the joke about Iron Man and being chalky? Was it just a man-joke about his supposed ice cream flavor, or does it connect to something else?

4. What’s up with William Hurt? He sounded Shatner-level stilted, like he couldn’t get out more than three words per breath. Is he ill?

5. Dr. Strange went straight to Tony Stark in the beginning, but he also introduced himself to him. So if he didn’t know Stark, how did he know that he needed Stark? I think that was a “back in time” move, from after he looked at the possible outcomes.
I also think that he instructed Hulk to stay out of the fight, probably because he is needed for something later.

My sense was that some of them knew that they had lived through the entire scenario several times, and at the last moment, realized that they had missed something. I suspect that Thor needing to aim for Thanos’s head is the final tweak to the plan that works. But if that’s true, can they get back in time to try again now that Thanos has the time stone?

But then Dr.Strange’s final words seem to indicate that it all went to plan “Tony, there was no other way.”

6. Remember what Thanos said about Iron Man having earned his respect? Maybe that is the key to getting Thanos to help with some future horror. It must be something that would otherwise kill the entire known universe. Or something.

7. For those arguing that Thanos is Lawful Evil – didn’t he break his promise to Eitri when he killed all the other giant-dwarves?

8. Why was the axe going to heal Thor from the star burns? And did Eitri say it would also summon the bifrost bridge? To where? Will the bridge reveal a new physical Asgard?

9. Dr. Strange: “Oh yeah, you’re much more of a Thanos” What did that mean?

10. It seems clear that Thanos does not intend to kill more than 50% of any race. That’s not genocide, and I found it extremely annoying. It’s bad enough that a bunch of people refer to what he does as genocide. But Dr. Strange? He would not use that term inappropriately.

11. Stark to Thanos: “You throw another moon at me. . .” What was that about?
  #571  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:51 AM
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Remember Strange’s Stond was the Time Stone which could mean it allows time travel.

I suspect we find out in Avengers 4 the reason Hulk has been sulking inside Banner is he’s so upset about getting spanked by Thanos.
I think Dr. Strange asked him not to get involved in the final fight, and is standing in view shaking his head. IIRC (and it's been 40 years, so maybe not! LOL!) Hulk can see ghosts, including Strange in his astral form.

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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Question, since we're here:

Near the beginning of the movie, Dr. Strange shoots this spell at the round space ship. It appears to dissipate and do nothing. Strange then gives Tony a wink.

What was that about? I thought that was gonna do something later but unless I missed it, it didn't play into the plot.
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Now I need to rewatch it. I thought it was Strange getting rid of all the bystanders somehow, because he does it right after Stark says they need to clear the area and establish a perimeter. Kinda like the beginning of Doctor Strange when the Ancient One moves the street fight into some sort of pocket dimension.
I'm with Typo. Tony was on the phone asking someone to evacuate people from the battle zone. Strange agrees and does so. The wink is a simultaneous "Good idea!" and "See what I can do?"

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I know how he got Cap's cell phone, but I'm confused why he carried it on his person seemingly at all times. Even when confronted with a doomsday scenario, he was reluctant to use it, and had to be convinced by Banner. Even then he found it distasteful (he gave out a "pshht" sound). If he didn't want to use it in an end of the world scenario, it doesn't make sense he would carry it on him when he never predicted an end of the world scenario.
My take on that was quite different. I think he wants to call, desperately. To me it seemed to be not reluctance but fear of rejection.

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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
As an aside: About Thanos' claim that Gamora's world is now utopian. Does anyone else suspect that he's never actually checked back up on them, and is just so certain that he's right that he doesn't need to confirm? And so he's completely unaware that in the following months, another 45% of the population died from the effects of the collapse of the planet's social and economic systems?
Thanos clearly has extremely limited emotional capacity. He didn't even know that his daughter wasn't enjoying watching him torture her sister every time she lost a fight. I don't think he could tell the difference between a populace that was happy, but having to share food, versus one that was well fed, but living in terror and suffering from PTSD after a horrible tragedy.

And no, I don't think Gamora and Quinn have done the "Let me show you my old neighborhood" thing. Neither of them has any desire to visit the scene of his/her mother's murder.
  #572  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:16 PM
smiling bandit smiling bandit is offline
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Thanos clearly has extremely limited emotional capacity. He didn't even know that his daughter wasn't enjoying watching him torture her sister every time she lost a fight. I don't think he could tell the difference between a populace that was happy, but having to share food, versus one that was well fed, but living in terror and suffering from PTSD after a horrible tragedy.
I'm with Chronos on this one: There's a good chance that Gamora's world is basically dead - that she is the last of her kind entirely - and Thanos is believing what he wants to believe. Also, while we don't get a very clear look at it, it didn't exactly looks like an overpopulated hell to begin with.

Quote:
And no, I don't think Gamora and Quinn have done the "Let me show you my old neighborhood" thing. Neither of them has any desire to visit the scene of his/her mother's murder.
Quill specifically hasn't been back to Earth at all.



Anyway, answering your uestions in order:

(1) Loki is actually a Frost Giant, more or less as per the Norse myth.
(2) For a joke. Drax's gag is that he takes everything literally, although ever since the end of Guardians of the Galaxy he seems to have loosened up and loves to pal around. (My view is that he often intentionally plays this up to cover other people's issues or social problems by taking it too-seriously).
(3) Dr. Strange was saying that as a way of needling Tony Stark.
(4) No idea, but Hurt deliberately underplayed his role as somebody who was very calm and collected, reversing his earlier portrayal in The Incredible Hulk. He's also in several upcoming films, so I assume & hope he's in good health.
(5) Banner knows Stark personally, and *everybody* know who Tony Stark is. Iron-Man has no idea who Dr. Strange is, though. And Hulk wouldn't come out to play because he experienced a one-sided defeat that shook his confidence. That's never happened to the Hulk before, and he doesn't know how to handle it. (No spoilers, but Thor 3 plays into this.)
(6) It may have some future importance, but maybe not. It works in the story because it isn't something we expect, but it works and changes how we view Thanos a bit.
(7) No going to comment, as while it's fun to assign fictional people to DnD aligments they are never more than guidelines anyway.
(8) No, it's just a magical item of incredible power that supercharges Thor. Odin had Gungnir and could open portals to other worlds, Thor used to have Mjolnir to fight with, and etc.
(9) I don't recall this line.
(10) I think once you're arguing over exactly whether the word "genocide" fits techniaclly, then we've gone well past the point at which genocide fits. Yes, technically Thanos didn't intend to destroy any one group, people, or culture, but that's the inevitable result of his action and he knew or should have known that.
(11) I don't remember the exact line, but I'm pretty sure it was Tony attempting to somehow joke about the fact that Thanos just threw a goddamn moon at them.
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