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  #151  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:22 PM
Jet Jaguar Jet Jaguar is offline
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Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
Not only did the movie Goldfinger fix that logistical hole, it also considerably improved Bond's role. In the novel, he ends up as -- I kid you not -- a glorified secretary, helping out with Goldfinger's paperwork. Reading it made me picture Bond in the back room while Rob Schneider sits there, doing his 25-year-old SNL routine:

"Bond. James Bond. The Bondster. Double Oh Seven. Makin' copies."

Fleming must have realized what a mistake that was (or had it pointed out to him), because in his last published work, The Man with the Golden Gun, when he wants Bond to get close to Scaramanga, he has him become Scaramanga's bodyguard, which is infinitely cooler.


(Speaking of which, The Man with the Golden Gun is definitely a case of dumping on your source material. )


I could understand The Spy who Loved Me coming up with a new plot -- they had to, both because of Fleming's stipulations and because the original was pretty dull. But did they have to steal the plot from their own movie version of You Only Live Twice!

And You Only Live Twice was another case of dumping on your source material.
Since we're on Bond books, Moonraker also dumped on it's source. The book is IMHO one of the better books, while the film is arguably one of the worst. Other than the name of the villain and the idea that rockets are somehow involved, the movie is a completely original story.

Another book that comes to mind is The Running Man by Stephen King. The book and the film share the idea that the protagonist is being pursued by hunters on some sort of dystopian game show, but that's where the similarities end. In the book, the main character voluntarily appears on the show to raise money for medicine for his sick wife/daughter (sorry, it's been awhile since I read the book and I forget which). He is released from the studio with a 12-hour head start and can travel anywhere in the world, accumulating prize money every day he survives and winning the grand prize if he can last 30 days. I wish someone would do a version closer to the book, actually.
  #152  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:53 PM
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I'm extremely worried about Amazon adapting Iain Banks' Culture series. Then again, I was worried about The Expanse, and they nailed it.
  #153  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:06 PM
Capn Carl Capn Carl is offline
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He did hold them off at weathertop, but how many? and then in his own words- he "escaped".

Gandalf stood in his way but the Witch King just laughed at him. "Old Fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!"

After Angmar left, Gandalf just sat motionless for a bit, the started to ride thru the gate. After Angmar? if so, why just sit there for a while?
You’re right, Tolkien doesn’t specify that all nine attacked him at night, only that all nine were at his heels in the morning.
As to the WK’s words, they’re just that. Minutes later, he was killed by a hobbit and a woman. Other than his ability to project fear, he had no special powers to prevent his own death.

GtW, on the other hand, claimed to be more dangerous than all save Sauron. Who else would have pursued, alone, the WK right into the midst of Sauron’s army?
  #154  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:35 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Not like Frankenstein, the rather slow book that owed some of it's original notoriety to the radical political / philosophical content poured into it by it's young female political / philosophical radical author.
Just checking but are you aware Mary Wollstonecraft and Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley are two different people?
  #155  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:44 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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You’re right, Tolkien doesn’t specify that all nine attacked him at night, only that all nine were at his heels in the morning.
As to the WK’s words, they’re just that. Minutes later, he was killed by a hobbit and a woman. Other than his ability to project fear, he had no special powers to prevent his own death.
A hobbit with a special magic bane dagger,

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-blades
It was enchanted with the power to harm the Witch-king of Angmar himself by a weaponsmith of Arthedain long before. When he stabbed the Witch-king in the knee with it, it distracted the Nazgűl and broke the spell binding his undead flesh to his will, allowing Eowyn to kill him by driving her sword into his unseen head, thus fulfilling the prophesy of Glorfindel that "not by the hand of man shall he fall."


"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

No other blade...would have dealt that foe a wound...

And of course a woman who was able to fulfil the prophecy, unlike Gandalf.
  #156  
Old 01-05-2019, 04:52 AM
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Dead or Alive is a fighting video game series that 100% heavily leans on its gimmick that most of the fighters are women with absurdly large chests, to the point it has 4 spin-off games that are entirely these women playing beach volley-ball in tiny bikinis.

Dead or Alive then was made into a live-action movie, where notably none of the female stars portraying the video game characters had physiques like the video game characters, rather being the typical Hollywood skinny women with small chests.

It's like if they made an Oregon Trail movie with no wagon, or a Super Smash Brothers movie with no Nintendo characters.

Last edited by Asuka; 01-05-2019 at 04:52 AM.
  #157  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:29 AM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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The film based series of Jack Reacher, with Tom Cruise as the lead.

Tom Cruise - 5'7" 170 lbs.
Jack Reacher - 6'5" 250 lbs.

Yeah, not even close.
AIR, in the first movie Tom Cruise looked like Tom Cruise. But in a latter version, they managed to film him in a way that made him look like a big main. Credit to the director for that.
  #158  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:42 AM
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Just checking but are you aware Mary Wollstonecraft and Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley are two different people?
Yes, You are aware that the author of "The modern Prometheus" was the child of two radical philosophers, and that running off with a married man was inline with a deliberate (if somewhat naive) rejection of the norms of patriarchal society? Because that gives you a an idea of the kind of book she wrote that you'll not get from seeing one of the film versions.

Last edited by Melbourne; 01-05-2019 at 06:43 AM.
  #159  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:35 AM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Flowers in the Attic. If ever a movie was made that was begging for sequels, this was it.

Instead, the made-for-TV movie stank big time, and did not follow the book. Even changed the poisoned donuts to cookies. WHY?
  #160  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:10 PM
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Flowers in the Attic. If ever a movie was made that was begging for sequels, this was it.

Instead, the made-for-TV movie stank big time, and did not follow the book. Even changed the poisoned donuts to cookies. WHY?
That wasn't made-for-TV...that was theatrical. My sister and I saw it in the theater when I was a teenager and she was about twenty.

They DID make a series of made-for-Lifetime movies fairly recently, based on those books.
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  #161  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:21 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
A hobbit with a special magic bane dagger,

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-blades
It was enchanted with the power to harm the Witch-king of Angmar himself by a weaponsmith of Arthedain long before. When he stabbed the Witch-king in the knee with it, it distracted the Nazgűl and broke the spell binding his undead flesh to his will, allowing Eowyn to kill him by driving her sword into his unseen head, thus fulfilling the prophesy of Glorfindel that "not by the hand of man shall he fall."


"So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will."

No other blade...would have dealt that foe a wound...

And of course a woman who was able to fulfil the prophecy, unlike Gandalf.
Gandalf could have done it. He wasn't a man, remember.
  #162  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:24 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
Flowers in the Attic. If ever a movie was made that was begging for sequels, this was it.

Instead, the made-for-TV movie stank big time, and did not follow the book. Even changed the poisoned donuts to cookies. WHY?
Not everybody LIKES donuts...
  #163  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:03 PM
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The Dark Tower has already been mentioned and I have to say that I haven't been able to come up with a better suggestion. It dumped on the original book(s) in ways that I could not previously have imagined. What's worse, it ended up sucking as a movie even if you knew nothing about King's work.
  #164  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:10 PM
Filbert Filbert is offline
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Gandalf could have done it. He wasn't a man, remember.
I think that's a question worthy of its own thread.

Tolkien certainly wouldn't have written that, but could Gandalf have killed the Witch King?

Last edited by Filbert; 01-05-2019 at 01:10 PM.
  #165  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:14 PM
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Colibri Colibri is offline
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Gandalf could have done it. He wasn't a man, remember.
Considering the variety of beings running around Middle-Earth, not "falling by the hand of man" didn't seem like all that much of a protection, especially since elves were among his major enemies.
  #166  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:24 PM
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I think that's a question worthy of its own thread.

Tolkien certainly wouldn't have written that, but could Gandalf have killed the Witch King?
It's a bit unclear to me whether the Witch-King was actually protected by such a spell.

After the battle of Fornost, Glorfindel says this:

"Do not pursue him! He will not return to these lands. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man shall he fall."

But this seems more like a foretelling than a knowledge of some protection.

When confronting Eowyn, he says:

"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

So I guess he at least believes he is protected.


In any case, Tolkien was relying on semantics to get around any protective spell, just like Shakespeare did with the witches' predictions for MacBeth. Eowyn was certainly a "Man" as a class of being distinct from Elves or Dwarves, and Hobbits were also a kind of "Man" to a first approximation. So if Tolkien had decided Gandalf wasn't a "Man" for the purposes of the story, he could have killed the Witch-King.
  #167  
Old 01-05-2019, 02:13 PM
Filbert Filbert is offline
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In any case, Tolkien was relying on semantics to get around any protective spell, just like Shakespeare did with the witches' predictions for MacBeth. Eowyn was certainly a "Man" as a class of being distinct from Elves or Dwarves, and Hobbits were also a kind of "Man" to a first approximation. So if Tolkien had decided Gandalf wasn't a "Man" for the purposes of the story, he could have killed the Witch-King.
My reasoning for thinking Tolkien would not have written it that way is that I've read that his inspiration for the 'not by the hand of man' bit was being disappointed by Shakespeare's 'no man of woman born' semantic trickery as a kid; he was expecting a woman, or a freak accident involving a badger or something, not an 'Ah, but technically...'. Given that, letting Gandalf fit the prophecy would feel like a cop out.
It had to be someone unexpected and overlooked.
  #168  
Old 01-05-2019, 02:24 PM
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I get that Tolkien was going for the unexpected in having a woman and a halfling being the ones to defeat the Witch-King, but it was still a technicality that to me immediately recalled Shakespeare's. (Also, the march of the Huorns at the Battle of Helm's Deep recalls the witches' prophecy about Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane.)
  #169  
Old 01-05-2019, 02:34 PM
Filbert Filbert is offline
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I get that Tolkien was going for the unexpected in having a woman and a halfling being the ones to defeat the Witch-King, but it was still a technicality that to me immediately recalled Shakespeare's. (Also, the march of the Huorns at the Battle of Helm's Deep recalls the witches' prophecy about Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane.)
And not coincidentally:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R.Tolkien
'Their [the Ents] part in the story is due, I think, to my bitter disappointment and disgust from schooldays with the shabby use made in Shakespeare of the coming of 'Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill': I longed to devise a setting in which the trees might really march to war.'
  #170  
Old 01-05-2019, 03:29 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Gandalf could have done it. He wasn't a man, remember.
He was in the body of one, and he didnt have a bane dagger.
  #171  
Old 01-05-2019, 04:39 PM
Capn Carl Capn Carl is offline
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He was in the body of one, and he didnt have a bane dagger.
He wasn’t in the body of a man. He had the appearance of an old man. He didn’t need a blade, of any kind, to kill.
  #172  
Old 01-05-2019, 11:15 PM
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Visit to a Small Planet started out as a teleplay by Gore Vidal. He expanded it into a Broadway show. Cyril Ritchard starred in both, playing the alien Kreton as a war-happy enfant terrible who disdains non-military earth culture. When they made it into a movie they jettisoned Vidal's script and made it into a vehicle for ---- Jerry Lewis!

Putting up with that was probably good practice for when Bob Guccione took his script for Caligula and turned it into a porn epic.
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  #173  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:36 AM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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He wasn’t in the body of a man. He had the appearance of an old man. He didn’t need a blade, of any kind, to kill.
The point being- minor difference from the source material is not "dumping on the source".

Totally changing the theme is.
  #174  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:12 PM
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The SciFry Channel and Ghibli Studios both managed to mangle Ursula K. LeGuin's EARTHSEA stories, as in "drove a tank over them".
  #175  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:37 PM
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The SciFry Channel and Ghibli Studios both managed to mangle Ursula K. LeGuin's EARTHSEA stories, as in "drove a tank over them".
I saw 'em both. The Ghibli one was interesting, but it wasn't leGuin.

Syfy also managed to mangle Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld.

Twice.
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