View Poll Results: Which nominees do you want inducted?
Def Leppard 40 26.49%
Devo 67 44.37%
Janet Jackson 18 11.92%
John Prine 28 18.54%
Kraftwerk 42 27.81%
LL Cool J 16 10.60%
MC5 31 20.53%
Radiohead 46 30.46%
Rage Against the Machine 38 25.17%
Roxy Music 48 31.79%
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan 11 7.28%
Stevie Nicks 61 40.40%
The Cure 67 44.37%
The Zombies 44 29.14%
Todd Rundgren 52 34.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:00 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
If Kraftwerk is a good choice, so is Janet Jackson. If she's not, neither is Kraftwerk.
If you want to roll that one, I'm fine with it. My personal grouping of genres has Kraftwerk closer to rock (I mean, they're even often associated with "krautrock"), so, to my sense, it's logical to lop them into rock, and not so much Janet Jackson, but I'm happy to excise both, if needbe.


Oh, and I just realized, after looking at the poll again and seeing the italics, I also voted for Todd Rundgren. Don't know why I didn't mention it before and thought for a sec I made a mistake in not voting for him.

Last edited by pulykamell; 10-12-2018 at 01:03 PM.
  #52  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:09 PM
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See, we are discussing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not rock and roll. The museum and institution in Cleveland, Ohio has rather clearly and indisputably established that it seeks to induct artists for excellence in not only rock and roll but also rock, punk, metal, pop, rap, electronica, disco, and other direct descendants of rock and roll. If Kraftwerk is a good choice, so is Janet Jackson. If she's not, neither is Kraftwerk.
The title of the poll is “Which nominees do you want inducted?” It’s not “Who will get inducted” or “Under the current rules and precedent set by the hall who should be inducted?” I picked who I want. If it was who I think will get picked I would say Janet Jackson would be at the top of the list.
  #53  
Old 10-12-2018, 05:43 PM
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"I have seen the future of Rock and Roll. It's Kraftwerk, so leave me alone, guys." --Bruce Springsteen, 1977.
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  #54  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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As someone said upthread, it's the Hall of Fame.

Janet Jackson is famous. Not only has she sold a shitload of records, but people like me who have no idea what her stuff sounds like, know who she is. (And had heard of her well before the 'wardrobe malfunction.') At least in the U.S.A., Kraftwerk is not famous at all. If you went down to the local McDonalds and asked the customers waiting in line who Kraftwerk is, good luck with that.
Well then, seeing as it has no Tull, no Kraftwerk, no Radiohead, no Eno I'd suggest that all of those artists invoke the "Groucho rule" and refuse to join anyway even if asked.
  #55  
Old 10-12-2018, 06:18 PM
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"I have seen the future of Rock and Roll. It's Kraftwerk, so leave me alone, guys." --Bruce Springsteen, 1977.
That's pretty much what happened
  #56  
Old 10-12-2018, 07:27 PM
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Jackson isn't fit to oil Kraftwerk's ten-speed racers.

She's just another in the stable of disposable background pop, high-selling and forgettable.
If you aren't familiar with her work, fair enough, but you aren't familiar with her work. She was not remotely disposable pop and can't be seriously compared to One Direction. That's like comparing Kraftwerk with Yello.
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  #57  
Old 10-12-2018, 07:54 PM
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Hell, technically NONE of those acts are "rock and roll." Some are rock, but that's not the same thing if we're going to be picky about specifically what "rock and roll" means.
Todd Rundgren has plenty of songs that are definitely "Rock and Roll".
  #58  
Old 10-13-2018, 05:55 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is offline
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If you aren't familiar with her work, fair enough, but you aren't familiar with her work. She was not remotely disposable pop and can't be seriously compared to One Direction. That's like comparing Kraftwerk with Yello.
I'm pretty confident that she'll be gone and forgotten long before the others on my list.

Certainly she was popular and she danced a lot. Thats about it. Nothing ground-breaking or of huge lasting merit. The comparison with one direction is apt, the comparison of Yello with Kraftwerk is not.
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  #59  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:53 AM
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I've seen no mention of Joe Jackson, here or elsewhere.

Am I his only fan?


mmm
  #60  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
I've seen no mention of Joe Jackson, here or elsewhere.

Am I his only fan?


mmm
It's unfortunate but apparently Janet Jackson is likely to get in before him,I'm not sure what criteria they're using but it seems like it's different for girls.
  #61  
Old 10-13-2018, 11:27 AM
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It's unfortunate but apparently Janet Jackson is likely to get in before him,I'm not sure what criteria they're using but it seems like it's different for girls.
Well, she is Kinda Kute.


mmm
  #62  
Old 10-13-2018, 12:13 PM
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I voted for Devo, the Zombies and Todd Rundgren because I like them, but don't care a whole lot who gets into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, seeing that there's little objective about who's deserving and what qualifications are necessary. Everything in pop gets shoved into a "rock n' roll" category.

I mean, "Rufus featuring Chaka Khan"?
Quote:
...inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.
Yeah, right.
  #63  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:10 PM
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Agreed. They should re-name it the Pop Music Hall of Fame, then start from scratch and build a real Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Or not. The more I think about it, the less I care.


mmm
  #64  
Old 10-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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it's different for girls.
You're all the same.
  #65  
Old 10-13-2018, 05:22 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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I've seen no mention of Joe Jackson, here or elsewhere.

Am I his only fan?
I'm a big fan. "It's Different for Girls" and "Steppin" Out" are world-class great songs, and he's got a bunch of fine albums.

His problem, IMO, is that he doesn't have the chart success of, say, either The Cure or Roxy Music plus his sound varied all over the place, which may be great musically but keeps undercutting the casual fan. Perhaps his best album is the soundtrack to Mike's Murder, which has his killer track "Memphis" and some fine atmospheric soundtrack noodling. But nobody's every heard it. They stripped his music out of the movie and the LP had only one CD pressing on some unbelievably obscure label for five minutes.

He'll always be a cult favorite. I'd put him in ahead of The Zombies, but that's a low bar.
  #66  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:45 PM
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Agreed. They should re-name it the Pop Music Hall of Fame, then start from scratch and build a real Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
I also think there should be a Pop Music Hall of Fame. It could be the umbrella and then acts would get nominated in different sub-categories (but not very many, maybe 4-6); I'm not sure how I'd divide it up, though. There are also questions like, should you include, for example, Country, which already has it's own strong traditions?
  #67  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:58 PM
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im still waiting for when the 80s new wave gets in …..pet shop boys …. neworder/joy division ect ……
  #68  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:15 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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I also think there should be a Pop Music Hall of Fame. It could be the umbrella and then acts would get nominated in different sub-categories (but not very many, maybe 4-6); I'm not sure how I'd divide it up, though. There are also questions like, should you include, for example, Country, which already has it's own strong traditions?
Country Music Hall of Fame inductees.
  #69  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:45 AM
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Les Espaces Du Sommeil Les Espaces Du Sommeil is offline
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the comparison... is apt, the comparison of Yello with Kraftwerk is not.
You may be slightly underestimating Jackson's importance but I share your surprise regarding the comparison of Yello and Kraftwerk.

There's no doubt that the latter were far more ground-breaking and influential but Yello never struck me as overtly commercial. Sure, they had some hits but, if I remember correctly, most of these were almost completely instrumental, with only a few spoken or vaguely spoken-sung words, complete with openly silly videos. The whole thing was clearly tongue-in-cheek.

It seems to me that they started with an artistic vision and happened to have hits. It doesn't matter that their vision wasn't particularly deep, placing it before sales potential - which I think is what they did - makes them by definition not commercial.
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  #70  
Old 10-23-2018, 05:06 PM
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I love John Prine, but what is he doing on this list? He is firmly country/folk. I can't even think of any ways he influenced rock music.

He should have been replaced with Warren Zevon, who will probably never get in because Jan Wenner hated him.
  #71  
Old 10-23-2018, 05:42 PM
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Jethro Tull fails to get nominated again. They still can't stand them taking Metallica's Grammy?

After looking over the list again, I noticed I failed to vote for Rage against the Machine. Despite me pretty much hating everything they stand for, which is likely why I missed them the first time, they belong.

I looked through the list of acts not in the hall and there's quite a lot of ones from my youth (I was born in 1981) that I thought were super-mega-big and assumed they'd be the first ones in when their time came, but I guess I really don't have much of an idea of just how big or important the acts were because, just like today, I don't have a clue about popular music at all. Tool is the most shocking in my mind; they're probably too prog though.
  #72  
Old 10-23-2018, 11:11 PM
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I'm betting a lot of bands from your youth aren't eligible yet. First record release in 1994 is the cut off for next year's inductees.

If/When Tull is inducted, which members not named Ian Anderson are going to be inducted? ELO only inducted four members (Lynne, Bevan, Tandy, and Wood).
  #73  
Old 10-23-2018, 11:41 PM
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I love John Prine, but what is he doing on this list? He is firmly country/folk. I can't even think of any ways he influenced rock music.

He should have been replaced with Warren Zevon, who will probably never get in because Jan Wenner hated him.

How have, say, Joan Baez, James Taylor, or Leonard Cohen (another guy that Jan Wenner really disliked) influenced rock music? Yet they are all in the Hall.

Oh, and the induction of Kiss (or even the Dave Clark Five years before) should put an end to the idea that Jan Wenner is some sort of puppet master who controls who gets in or left out.
  #74  
Old 10-23-2018, 11:49 PM
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Wow, NONE of the acts are getting 50% of the SDMB vote? Cantankerous bunch we are.
  #75  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:59 AM
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I'm betting a lot of bands from your youth aren't eligible yet. First record release in 1994 is the cut off for next year's inductees.

If/When Tull is inducted, which members not named Ian Anderson are going to be inducted? ELO only inducted four members (Lynne, Bevan, Tandy, and Wood).
If they weren't eligible yet, why would they be on someone's list of bands not in? Tool's first album was in 1993. The stuff all the popular kids listened to in Middle School that I thought was garbage (some I appreciate now though) had to come out in the early 90s. Stone Temple Pilots for example. I saw a planetarium show that featured their music as part of a summer camp or something, and it said afterward that they were planning on doing one for Metallica. So I thought STP was like, probably the same level as Metallica, if they had their show done first. I'm pretty sure Metallica's a much bigger deal now, but if STP was as big as them then, shouldn't they be at least in consideration? Maybe they actually really did suck like I thought they did, and only that show made me think they were such a big deal.

--

I can definitely see there being a problem with who gets in with Ian Anderson if Tull is inducted...

Mick Abrahams – guitar, vocals (1967–1968)
Clive Bunker – drums, percussion (1967–1971)
Glenn Cornick – bass guitar (1967–1970; died 2014)
Tony Iommi – guitar (1968)
Martin Barre – electric and acoustic guitars, mandolin, lute, flute (1968–2012)
John Evan – keyboards (1970–1980)
Jeffrey Hammond – bass, vocals (1971–1975)
Barriemore Barlow – drums, percussion (1971–1980)
John Glascock – bass, harmony and backing vocals (1975–1979; died 1979)
Dee Palmer – keyboards (1977–1980; also worked with the band as an arranger between 1967 and 1976)
Dave Pegg – bass, mandolin, vocals (1979–1995)
Mark Craney – drums (1980–1981; died 2005)
Gerry Conway – drums, percussion (1981–1982; studio – 1987–1988)
Peter-John Vettese – keyboards, vocoder (1982–1986; studio – 1989)
Doane Perry – drums, percussion, vocals (1984–2012)
Maartin Allcock – keyboards, guitar, mandolin (1988–1991; died 2018)
Andrew Giddings – keyboards, accordion, bass (1991–2007)
Jonathan Noyce – bass, percussion (1995–2007)

(That's not even counting the current official members of Tull, who are more of Anderson's solo backing band now than anything else.)

Yes, Tony Iommi was a member of Tull for a few weeks. He's with them on their performance for the Rolling Stone's Rock and Roll Circus, but I'm not sure if they're actually playing on camera.

Martin Barre is obvious. Where you draw the line on everyone else is less clear.
  #76  
Old 10-29-2018, 02:08 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Sold a Lot of Albums.
Back at you with:

Fame equals famous, fame doesn't equal good. A hall of fame should be based on reputation, not quality.

I'm not convinced that a hall of fame is good for anything at all, no matter how the choices are made, so probably better not to listen to me.
  #77  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:35 AM
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I voted for:

Def Leppard: one of the best selling hard rock bands ever.
Janet Jackson: Janet pretty much started the whole New Jack Swing movement, although it was more Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis' brainchild. But she was the performer. She also has serious longevity
Rage Against the Machine: hate them, but they earned it.
LL Cool J: no rapper has lasted longer in an industry where being relevant for more than a few years is really tough, although as the genre has matured rappers are lasting longer. But for LL Cool J to survive the 90s and 00s is remarkable.
  #78  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:01 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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I'm pretty confident that she'll be gone and forgotten long before the others on my list.
Whoa, I'd take that bet. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of whose farts does Jann Wenner like the smell of, after all.

Let's admit this. Critical darlings of the 1970s or so are already being forgotten. The average music fan on the street will know more about Janet Jackson now than most knew about Kraftwerk back during the 80s. At a minimum, she's part of a family legacy that has loomed over pop music for 50 years.

This is the exact same thing that happens in all Halls of Fame...the desire to look for peak years vs longevity. Does Def Leppard belong in the HoF? They were really only on top for a few years in the 80s. First top ten single: 1983 (Photograph). Last top ten single: 1989 (Rocket). Even that's only if you restrict it to the US Rock charts.

High peak, long long tail of lower fame. But that's the way the music industry works, both then and now. Very few stay on top for very long.
  #79  
Old 10-29-2018, 11:08 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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Does anyone know if there's an expiry date on eligibility? It's one of the things I like about the Baseball HoF. If you don't have sufficient support you get dropped from the ballot. If you're not elected in X number of years you're off the ballot.

But I'm the sort who:

1. Considers it to be a Hall of Popular Music
2. Would lobby for a small Hall of Elite
  #80  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:06 AM
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Selections announced: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-class-767917/


Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Janet (that's "Jackson" if you're nasty)
Def Leppard
The Cure
Roxy Music
The Zombies
  #81  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:33 PM
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In a refreshing change from the recent Baseball Hall of Fame inductions, the R&R Hall of Fame did a better job than the SDMB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance
Does anyone know if there's an expiry date on eligibility? It's one of the things I like about the Baseball HoF.
It is weirdly difficult to figure this out. I mean, there has to be some way of weeding out everyone who's ever been nominated or else the ballot would become impossibly long and confusing.

So, having done some research, it appears that the ballot is new every year. There is no carryover; an artist on the ballot in 2019 must get on the 2020 ballot through the nomination process.

I think.
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  #82  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:48 PM
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Selections announced: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-class-767917/


Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Janet (that's "Jackson" if you're nasty)
Def Leppard
The Cure
Roxy Music
The Zombies
It continues to be the "Hall of the Pretty Good."
  #83  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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I know this was not the intended effect but the ones who got in "instead of Todd Rundgren" will be known for that more than their music. And I like the Zombies a lot.
  #84  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:20 PM
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Def Leppard. One of the most derivative bands I can think of.

Ahead of Devo and Rage Against the Machine, who both, arguably, defined new movements in rock music. Not to mention Kraftwerk, whom I don't even like, but who were also pioneers in their subgenre.

I liked Pyromania myself back in the day, but enough is enough.

After this, you know damn well Nickelback is going in.
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  #85  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:40 PM
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I know this was not the intended effect but the ones who got in "instead of Todd Rundgren" will be known for that more than their music. And I like the Zombies a lot.
They expanded the number of inductees to seven and still skipped Todd.
  #86  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Selections announced: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-class-767917/


Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Janet (that's "Jackson" if you're nasty)
Def Leppard
The Cure
Roxy Music
The Zombies
Yay, looks like half my choices (based on the italics in the poll) made it: Roxy Music and The Zombies. I'm still wondering why in the hell I didn't vote Radiohead--maybe I thought it was too soon. (My other two were Kraftwerk and Todd Rundgren. I mentioned MC5 in my post above, but I apparently didn't vote for them.) Like I said before, I'm really happy with any of them, but missing Todd Rundgren seems like an oversight to me. I'm not as intimately acquainted with his work as others here are, but all I know and have heard about him would make me think he should be a shoe-in.

Last edited by pulykamell; 12-13-2018 at 10:46 PM.
  #87  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:42 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Here are the poll results in order of votes.

Devo 65
The Cure 63
Stevie Nicks 57
Todd Rundgren 49
Roxy Music 43
Radiohead 43
Kraftwerk 41
The Zombies 39
Rage Against the Machine 37
Def Leppard 36
MC5 30
John Prine 27
Janet Jackson 17
LL Cool J 16
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan 10
  #88  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:46 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Here are the poll results in order of votes.

Code:
Devo 	    	        65	
The Cure 	        63	
Stevie Nicks 	    	57	
Todd Rundgren 	    	49	
Roxy Music 	    	43	
Radiohead 	        43	
Kraftwerk 	        41	
The Zombies 	    	39	
Rage/ Machine 	    	37	
Def Leppard 	    	36		
MC5 	    	        30	
John Prine 	        27	
Janet Jackson 	    	17			
LL Cool J 	        16	
Rufus/Chaka Khan   	10
You ranked the actual inductees 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, and 13.
  #89  
Old 12-14-2018, 07:51 PM
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Like I said before, I'm really happy with any of them, but missing Todd Rundgren seems like an oversight to me. I'm not as intimately acquainted with his work as others here are, but all I know and have heard about him would make me think he should be a shoe-in.
I'm a huge Todd fan and didn't think he was going to make it as a performer. Even though he's a great performer and a genius songwriter, he doesn't have enough hit records and people citing him as an influence. It's his own fault for jumping from one genre to another.

But I thought they would have given him a Nile Rogers style "Award For Musical Excellence" to acknowledge his production work. He produced The New York Dolls, Bad Brains, Hall & Oates and many others. He saved XTC's career by producing Skylarking. And his definition of "production" included arranging, playing whatever instrument was needed, writing songs, engineering, whatever.

On Bat Out of Hell, he did all of the arrangements - according to Meat Loaf, Jim Steinman cannot read or write music, and would hum what he wanted to Todd.

I mean, the man played the "motorcycle guitar" on the title track to Bat Out of Hell, the marimba on Love My Way and the COWBELL on We're An American Band! What does he have to do to get some respect?
  #90  
Old 12-14-2018, 09:39 PM
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Eno’s not in, after Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy?. Warren fucking ZEVON is not in?

I’m outta here, shut off the lights when you’re done.
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  #91  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:49 PM
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Johanna Johanna is offline
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Todd has absolutely earned a place through his massive presence and notable work in the world of rock 'n' roll. The accolade for Todd is long overdue.
  #92  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:29 PM
nightshadea nightshadea is offline
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only problem is rudgrens considered one of if not the biggest asshole in rock especially by the people who vote for these things......

Last edited by nightshadea; 12-14-2018 at 11:29 PM.
  #93  
Old 12-15-2018, 01:17 AM
gaffa gaffa is offline
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only problem is rudgrens considered one of if not the biggest asshole in rock especially by the people who vote for these things......
He's very sarcastic, but I've not heard him called an asshole. If he were, he wouldn't have so many musicians who have been with him for decades. The core of his band, Jesse Gress on guitar, Prairie Prince on drums and Kasim Sulton on bass have been with him for decades, Sulton since 1976!

I imagine Steven Tyler doesn't like him. Todd's girlfriend Bebe Buell cheated on him with Tyler, Todd forgave her and raised her daughter Liv as his own - then when she was 11, her mom revealed that this other rock star was her biological father. Todd and Liv are still close.

And Andy Partridge has never forgiven Todd for helping create their most successful album, Skylarking, and saving their career.

By the way, Todd predicted the move to music streaming back in 1978.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...g-37-years-ago

Last edited by gaffa; 12-15-2018 at 01:19 AM.
  #94  
Old 12-15-2018, 09:14 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Todd has absolutely earned a place through his massive presence and notable work in the world of rock 'n' roll. The accolade for Todd is long overdue.
I agree he deserved a HOF spot, but on the other hand it's hard to see him being diminished in any real way by not getting in.

Did Stevie Nicks really need to get in separately in addition to being part of Fleetwood Mac? Maybe her wardrobe will be voted in from a future ballot.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:55 PM
gaffa gaffa is offline
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I agree he deserved a HOF spot, but on the other hand it's hard to see him being diminished in any real way by not getting in.
Todd has made it clear that he doesn't care one way or the other, but his fans do care. And a feature spot on a concert on HBO would do a lot for drawing crowds to the shows.
  #96  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:16 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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I'm not a Radiohead fan, but I'm glad they got in. They've been constantly innovative and influential, which is what a Hall of Famer should be. The commercially successful dolts have gotten their reward.

Def Leppard. Damn.
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  #97  
Old 01-07-2019, 11:09 PM
bmoak bmoak is offline
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But I thought they would have given him a Nile Rogers style "Award For Musical Excellence" to acknowledge his production work. He produced The New York Dolls, Bad Brains, Hall & Oates and many others. He saved XTC's career by producing Skylarking. And his definition of "production" included arranging, playing whatever instrument was needed, writing songs, engineering, whatever.

On Bat Out of Hell, he did all of the arrangements - according to Meat Loaf, Jim Steinman cannot read or write music, and would hum what he wanted to Todd.

I mean, the man played the "motorcycle guitar" on the title track to Bat Out of Hell, the marimba on Love My Way and the COWBELL on We're An American Band! What does he have to do to get some respect?
The Hall usually gives the "Award for Musical Excellence" only after someone fails to get in as a performer several times. Chic was nominated and failed to get in seven times before the Hall inducted Nile Rogers under the Musical Excellence category. (Oddly enough, Chic hasn't been nominated since.). IIRC, the Musical Excellence Award is announced separately from the Performers.

Also remember, that Todd Rundgren is best known to the American public for "Bang On My Drum" , which probably doesn't help his case.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:15 PM
bmoak bmoak is offline
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Did Stevie Nicks really need to get in separately in addition to being part of Fleetwood Mac? Maybe her wardrobe will be voted in from a future ballot.
I really don't think her solo career really makes the cut. Most of her solo hits were duets.

I'm somewhat surprised Diana Ross is not in as a solo act.
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