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  #51  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:03 PM
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cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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Right, my point is that they're not MORE evil than the Soviet government, they're agents of that government (whether permanently employed or on a job-for-hire basis), so their level is basically equal, whether you consider it to be in a good light or not. The villains in Octopussy and The Living Daylights, on the other hand, are clearly being portrayed as more evil than the Soviet government.
  #52  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:46 PM
Rocketeer Rocketeer is offline
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The TV series Men Into Space (1959-1960) has a couple episodes with Russian cosmonauts. They're portrayed as normal people.
  #53  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:10 PM
mbh mbh is offline
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The Six Million Dollar Man had an episode where Gary Collins portrayed a Soviet cosmonaut as a good guy. In the "Venus probe" episodes, the Soviet spies were portrayed more as "bureaucrat" than "monster".
  #54  
Old 01-10-2019, 05:09 PM
Reindeer Flotilla Reindeer Flotilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Nonesutch View Post
I haven't seen WarGames for 30 years, but were any Soviets shown at all in the entire movie?

I remember it made the U.S. military out to be incompetent fools and trigger-happy warmongers, but I can't remember any foreign forces depicted.

(I am now currently trying to remember if it was with Ally Sheedy or Elisabeth Shue, resisting the temptation to look it up)
This is completely backward. The movie portrayed the military personal as reasonable and competent (as well as the Soviets by reference as they hadn't done anything wrong); it was the civilian scientists (especially the Dabney Coleman character) that were insisting the automated systems were infallible and pushed for military escalation. The civilians were also demanding harsh treatment towards the Matthew Broderick character, insisting he had to be a foreign agent since their systems were too perfect to allow a mere kid to hack into them. The military treats him relatively decently, all things considered.

And when Falken returns to NORAD, McKittrick immediately tries to discredit him but General Beringer has none of it and takes Falken's speech, appealing to Beringer's humanity, to heart. Beringer couldn't be happier to stand down, and couldn't show more anguish when forced to order the bombers back to fail-safe.

"God damn it I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd do any good. Let the boy in there Major."
  #55  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:50 PM
gaffa gaffa is offline
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The Bob Clampett Loony Toons cartoon Russian Rhapsody had a very positive view of the "Gremlins From the Kremlin".
  #56  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:16 PM
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The Stainless Steel Rat The Stainless Steel Rat is offline
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One that hasn't been mentioned that came to me early on was Hopscotch, from 1980, with Walter Matthau playing a US CIA agent working against the Russians, but also on a friendly basis with his opposite number, played by Herbert Lom. Compared with the US Agents chasing him (led by Ned Beatty), the Russian is much more of a gentleman than they.
  #57  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:18 PM
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Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
Right, my point is that they're not MORE evil than the Soviet government, they're agents of that government (whether permanently employed or on a job-for-hire basis), so their level is basically equal, whether you consider it to be in a good light or not.
And my point is that they're more interested in money rather than ideals. If you recall, Kristatos intended to sell the ATAC to Gogol even though that's who hired him. Gogol could have let his man shoot at Bond but didn't.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 01-11-2019 at 01:19 PM.
  #58  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:37 PM
griffin1977 griffin1977 is offline
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Not American or a Film (later made into a film, but not a coldwar one though) but Smilie's KGB nemesis Karla in the La Carre books is a very sympathetic character, not a villain by any means.

SPOILER:

In fact the book ends with Smilie being disappointed that he eventually convinces him to defect (by threatening him with knowledge of what he's done to protect his daughter).

Last edited by griffin1977; 01-11-2019 at 09:40 PM.
  #59  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:50 PM
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terentii terentii is offline
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Originally Posted by griffin1977 View Post
Not American or a Film (later made into a film, but not a coldwar one though) but Smilie's KGB nemesis Karla in the La Carre books is a very sympathetic character, not a villain by any means.
On TV, he was played by Patrick "Jean-Luc Picard" Stewart.
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